WWWW

I enjoyed your direct statements.. You write well. One comment you made, in particular, caught my eye. Your statement - " Like floor pivots. More laughable crap" - shook me. It shook me because you appear to be a credible participant. It was unsettling because I have finally moved away from the usual and customary indicators - into a price action strategy based largely on floor and Camarilla pivots (after reading loads of literature including Franklin Ochoa's "Pivot Boss".) Can you / would you take a moment more to be specific here? What are your criticisms? Are there any practical applications in your opinion? I'll take any thoughts and suggestions. Thanks for your time and contribution.

I will copy and paste all of your thoughts and opinions in my "cookbook", re-read, sort through and internalize them. Again, thanks for your contributions - both philosophical and specific. I hope that I can return the favor one day and more importantly, that your year is profitable and fulfilling. (I need the same!) Take care.

Again, thanks to everyone for their generous donation of their time to my plight. I am or may not be getting it though. One more try - then I will not bother any of you any more.... On my misuse of the term hard stop - got it. Let me get beyond that. My fault for not doing a better job of communicating. 1. Let's say i just use one stop. That stop will never more than I am willing to lose per trade - and that is 2% of my trading account per trade. 2. I also want that stop to keep me in the trade long enough to capture upside moves but keep my losses to an absolute minimum – that is, far LESS than the 2% per trade I am willing to risk. 3. I am told that the point at which I place the trade is where the market proves me wrong. But that point could be immediately when the action goes as little as 2 pips in the red – or even 1 pip for that matter. Right? So – do I exit then? At exactly the instant I am no longer in the black? Even 2 seconds into the trade (I trade on the M5)? After all – I entered with the intent of making a profit, the market moved against me in these first 2 seconds, I am now down 2 pips – so why not get out right then and there? 4. The answer may be that there will always be noise – that takes my trade into the red over the course of several minutes, but ultimately that noise is shed – and the trade goes in the right direction. 5. So I guess the question is – how do I identify the “noise level” so I can put my stop right outside that noise, not ever letting the trade get close to my 2% loss max per trade, etc.? 6. Is it 1 ATR on average? Is it 2 ATR? Is it at the bottom of the price channel line? 7. I saw a vid of I believe it was Kathy Lien – and she said that after loads of research, they concluded that a stop of 2ATR is always a good rule to follow. Again - as a less experienced trader, I seek comfort in rules that guide my actions and reduce my anxiety. The response from BearBullTrading (among a few others) was getting at what I think I am seeking. me there. Am I making any sense? Am I missing all of your good points? Thanks again.

First - thanks to everyone who took the time to help me. I do hear what you are all saying - and grasp most of it – set your stop when your trade entry / logic is invalidated, stops are set as a result of testing, probabilities, the risk level one is willing to absorb, etc. But you may think I do not get it - after you read this. 1. While it may not be realistic, as a relative newcomer, I am seeking some black and white rules that take the anxiety out of my trading. 2. I may be able to answer my own question (through your wisdom provided thus far) that if i cannot stomach or my account cannot tolerate too much risk, than i simply set my stops tighter knowing that I will be stopped out more often miss out on bigger run-ups and yet avoid larger losses. Maybe this is all that simple. 3. But if it is that simple, why are there supposedly credible professional trading tutors out there who prescribe two opposite but absolute stop placement rules? a. - "Exit as soon as the trade goes against you and if the trade does not go in your favor within the first few seconds of the trade on the M5". and the opposite... b. Place your stop at the bottom line of the channel or approx 2 x ATR - which results in a far greater draw-down per trade and far greater risk. Here's my lack of understanding - and I'll give you what I hope is a simple picture using just a sample setup. Please see the attachment. - In using a simple price action channel, one would enter at the arrow, when price just passes the upper channel line. - Using some of the logic I read, a stop theoretically should be placed just below that line as this is where the trade logic has gone wrong. - After all, if price goes below where I entered, and i would not have entered there in the first place, then that's where my stop goes. - And if get stopped out there as I would have in my diagram, I missed out on the big run up later. So the "but" is that price may drop and fluctuate a bit - needing "room to develop" in side that channel before it finally picks up and goes profitable. And if in fact I set my stop much farther out, at the bottom of the second channel line, I stand to get stopped out with a much greater loss - at a point only 6 candles further into the trade (the Hammer just before the next red candle). So - at the sake of being redundant - sorry - why not do as some professional trading tutors firmly advise and exit if the trade does not go in my favor within the first few seconds of the trade (on the M5) - trading off a larger loss with more frequent smaller losses? Some professional tutors also say to place a stop at the bottom of the second candle back. To which you can say - you have to back test this to determine if that makes sense. Is this the real only answer? I apologize if I am just wasting everyone’s time. Maybe I need a vacation. I may be missing the point and not getting anything. I hope you can follow what i am saying. Thank you very much, again, for your time and help.

Hard Stop Placement – The Great Contradiction? Will a seasoned trader please…please advise here? After 3 years of research and full time trading, I remain troubled (by apparently what continues to trouble even seasoned pros I am told). Here’s the issue: We are told to set a hard stop, for example outside of a price channel or at a support level, etc. as a “hard stop. This is to supposedly allow the trade “enough room” to develop and prevent you from getting stopped out too soon. YET – we are ALSO told by Pros – NEVER let price hit your hard stop but ‘manage the trade” – and get out sooner – at something far less than the “hard stop”. Again – “NEVER let it hit the stop you just placed at the most recent swing high or closest support level or channel line, or any place else your system "rule" told you to place it.” So…won’t this result in premature exits? After all, if we never let it hit the hard stop, we are never giving the trade “the room it needs to go through it’s ups and downs”. What are we to do? Use the “set a stop just outside the price channel” or just above the last most recent swing high” etc etc OR – do something else? And yes - someone might respond that - it's whatever you are comfortable with...or...you must always manage your trade (of course!)...or there are no hard and fast rules.... The BUT is that there are Pros who make this a hard and fast rule, yet the wisdom of each of these rules are OPPOSITE. Unless I am just missing something. Any specifics and guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and wisdom.