karoshiman

:o I guess the expert day trader FXgirl described in the conscious/subconscious thread did it the same way. Now we know the real way to riches! Take a nap more often...

... while still holding the mouse in your hand and being ready to fire in a millisecond!

You didn't say whether you closed your profitable position or not. If I am still in a position, I do the following: 1. Try to move the markets with my mind. It works sometimes... I might briefly interrupt 1. for 2. Doing the laundry. 3. Reading some new posts on TL or surf news or other websites that come to my mind. 4. Exchanging emails with friends/relatives. 5. Working on trading ideas. If I'm VERY confident about my position (no mind tricks necessary), I put in a very wide stop and my target and then go for a work-out. When I have no open position and don't expect markets to move in the next few hours, I go directly to my work-out or do some shopping and get back for the closing session.

Hi XS, Why don't you do out-of-sample testing using the 2008 months you mentioned? I would be curious about how my system would have performed in that high vola period. Regards, k EDIT: Sorry, posted too late...

There we have the intuition again...

I am referring to the technical indicators to which new traders are often attracted to (MACD, RSI, etc.) as they make trading look so simple (e.g. buy if that line crosses this line or the line crosses this figure from below, etc.). They are just derivatives of price and show only what happened in the past by reducing the amount of information you have already on your price chart. They have no predictive value. I am sure you can build a profitable system by applying these in an intelligent manner together with a sound money management system. However, it will very probably be only a marginally profitable system. Regarding your learning period, gather every information you can get on trading. But no matter what your information source on trading is, you have to - be critical about every piece of information you get, even if it is from a trustworthy source - think for yourself and apply common sense - develop your own approach to trading based on what fits best to your personality. Good luck with your learning!

My number one advice for you: Change your mindset. I am relating to the mindset on how you have to approach trading in order to be successful. From the way you ask this question it is obvious that you have a looong way to go... Have you searched this forum for similar topics and checked out the advice given there? How many books did you read about trading? Have you done some backtesting on your own? ... Imagine a forum for doctors and someone asking: "How can I conduct brain surgery?" ... You get my point... Do your homework before you attend the final exam. And, it's a lot of homework... You will learn also by doing the "exam" directly (i.e. learning by doing) and you learn a lot this way (... not recommended with brain surgery, though)... but be prepared to fail more often than you can imagine (i.e. lose a lot of money) before you succeed. Do you have enough money for that? If the above is not enough (but it should) I can give you also a more concrete hint into the right direction: Forget about indicators. EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I don't want to offend you. I have been there before myself. But this is how I see things now after failing a thousand times..

fxstreet.com focus - as the name suggests - on forex, but i use the economic calendar which is updated (nearly) in real-time (i am not a news trader, so that's fine with me) with the economic releases. plus, they have a good and structured introduction to trading for newbies for free in their education section.

The one thing I would pass on: All my losses until I became a profitable trader (as a bonus, emotional pain is also included in the package). If the person getting them is motivated enough, he or she could use them to learn from them and to adapt until they have found a trading style suitable for his or her personality.

Yes, and maybe it is a little bit different for each of us. Talking for myself, when I have these intuitive moments, there is no self-talk involved. But I do have these self-talks as well... but they are not linked to my personal "moments of brilliance"

Hi Tom, I think it has to do with calmness, like FXgirl described this one day trader. If fight or flight emotions take over you are usually nervous or excited. Then it is probably the emotions which want you to do something to reduce the emotional pain. But if it's the intuition you are almost indifferent. You just see and act. Regards, k

Tom, I didn't know you have a poetic side... just kidding! Great post! k

That's interesting. I've took 2 art classes last year and loved it. I was able to get totally absorbed in the tasks and have a fresh mind afterwards. Then I stopped it due to a move and my efforts in developing trading methods which suit my personality. Having done the latter, I guess I will start again with painting... Thanks again!

It is exactly about this.

Great post! Thank you for that. This might explain also the misunderstandings we had at the beginning of this conversation. Anyway, regarding this expert day trader which you have monitored, can you say whether he had actually meditation training before? I'm asking because I've heard it now several times that mediation might help traders in their task. Someone with mediation experience might get easier into this meditative state than someone without such experience. Or is it just like a skill someone has or doesn't have? Of course, meditation might help also someone who has this skill already...

That's an important point. I've realized for me that it was not the amount of too much work which led me to quit my job. In fact, it was quite the opposite. It was the frustration that many managers on my level or even some of my bosses did not share my passion for work. I had to push THEM so that we can reach our goals, which was really not my task or what I was paid for to do. When you are your own boss you can really move forward with the speed that fits you best. And as you do not even have any employees or customers in trading, it's all in your hands...

As this thread title is somewhat neutral (just talking about "positive benefits"), I'd like to add one further aspect in addition to the health-related comments to which I agree 100%. I was a competitive athlete a few years back and hence, I am used to working in a structured manner towards my goals, which was at that time to increase my performance at sports. After an extended break of several years from working out (as I thought the workouts just steal time that I could use to work more on my corporate career) I've started to work out again regularly in the gym about 6 years ago. As I am not the kind of person who does something just for a hobby I've used a very structured approach to my workouts, with the plan to increase my strength and my muscle size constantly (without the use of drugs, of course). So, I've started right away to keep a journal and notes on every exercise I was doing - as this was the natural for me to do - so that I could review my strength and the respective repetitions at each exercise. I would then adjust my training to provide for the weaker body parts, etc. Anyway, when I struggled with my trading I wasn't keeping a journal about my trades as I was too lazy. Also, trading has so many different variables to take care of, that this for itself is overwhelming for a beginning trader. There is also very few useful guidance as to how to succeed with this. A journal is (unfortunately!) the least you think of at the beginning. But then one day I realized the parallel to my workouts. After I've realized this parallel it was much easier for me to start approaching my trading in a more structured manner and to analyze my past performance for improvement potential. I guess this relates not only to exercise. We all might have experiences in our lives from which we can "steal" the one or other idea in order to improve our trading. But I have taken from my exercising this positive benefit in addition to the health benefits. Regards, k

One other thing came to my mind that I did expect from trading (but which is not included in my business plan ): - Being able to work in my pajamas, in torn jeans or shorts and flip-flops (as I do right now) Okay, it's not the most important thing, I admit it... (I guess it's a subitem to the point 'Independence')

Hi Tom, As I visited this thread now a few times to see what you guys are doing with the ES I saw you mentioning several times the word "rotation". I haven't heard that expression before. To what exactly does it refer? Is it a retracement? Would be glad if you could fill my knowledge gap here... Thanks in advance! k

Not even if it is a long weekend...?? :crap:

Hi Tom, As you mentioned top performing athletes it came to my mind that I've read already a good book on this subject: Finding Your Zone: Ten Core Lessons for Achieving Peak Performance in Sports and Life by Michael Lardon I think 'Being in the Zone' describes this state of mind you are referring to pretty well. The guy is a sport psychologist who has trained many well known athletes (with a strong focus on golf). Anyway, the methods are applicable to any endeavor in your life but you have to be open-minded to make use of it. I haven't tested all of the ten lessons for a longer period of time, to be honest, but some of them. All in all it gives you a better understanding of how you function in stressful situations (a golf tournament with $$$ on the line is also pretty stressful if this is your only income) and how to perform better in these. k

Hi Xiao si, I wasn't there for the whole year, just for a day, visiting the factory Sorry, my post was misleading... Yes, Suzhou is a very popular area but also expensive compared to other parts of China (labor) due to the demand. But I guess we are going off-topic here... Cheers, k

It certainly is possible. And I personally don't like it too if someone who is supposedly successfull is trying to talk others out of this endeavor. Without knowing someone personally and being able to assess their personal situations adequately you cannot say whether he or she is able to succeed in this or not. Although, I agree that the majority of people will not succeed in this. Just as like the majority of people will not be able to get managing positions in a larger company. If someone did not have any success in his or her life up to now then it is very probable that this person will not succeed in trading either. In my view the recipe for success no matter in what field is always the same... Belief is for me the first step. If you don't believe... well then you don't do it in the first place. I mean you actually don't even try it. That's what I've witnessed very early in my life that most people think success is only for the others but not for them (I'm from Europe though... might be different in the US). Hence, they didn't even try to become more... That seemed strange to me... and not very logical. But still, I think Gosu has a valid point, that belief is overrated as belief alone will not lead you to anything... maybe to frustration. Like you said Xiao si, you need a lot of hard work to make it happen or even obsession. But I would add also the ability to think independently. Without this you can never step out of the crowd. Finally, if you want to become world class in any field you need innate skill or talent. Having said this, I think if someone is willing to work hard and is able to think straight he or she can become a profitable trader. Can he or she become a millionaire by doing this? That's possible, but depends on the innate skills this person has. And you cannot do anything about the latter. PS: By the way Xiao si, I was in Suzhou in 2010. My former company has a factory there

Replacing a full-time job was my first motive why I've entered this endeavor. But trading offers me many other things which I have summarized in the very first part of my business plan, under "Motivation". I've divided it into 2 sections, motivation towards things and motivation away from things. It is in part repetitive, but I've kept some items on both sides as they are so important to me. Motivation towards: - Being able to fulfill my potential/Doing what fits my personality best - Personal and financial independence (making a living), being able to control my life - Seeing the family on a weekly basis - Being able to build and keep a social network (I had no time for this in my former job...) Motivation away from: - Being controlled by others - Stress (rushing from meeting to meeting, lots of traveling) - Getting out of shape (bad eating habits, less/no sports) - Letting others stand in my way (relates to fulfilling my potential) And I'm getting all of the positive things above from trading and avoid the negative things. So, I'm quite happy about it. But keep in mind that these points refer to MY life situation as I had it before I've started with trading. Hence, it is very individual and relative. Of course, trading is stressful like someone mentioned, sometimes VERY stressful. But you can not have everything at once in life. You have to pay a price for everything... But I don't like the discussion of what's more stressful... it depends very much on each individual situation. Trading stress for me is a different kind of stress than what I have experienced in the corporate world. But I would say that my overall stress level decreased enormously as the major stress came from not being able to see friends and family on a regular basis.

This whole discussion reminds me of my beginnings in this business. Well at the beginning it was no real business... I trade full-time and intraday now only for about a year. But I do have experience in swing trading since the mid-nineties. The reason I have so much trust in my intuition is that I started my swing trading at that time on no particular system... I took trades based on my gut feeling only! I had just some moving averages on my charts and watched price action (something I would not recommend to do... unless you have enough money to lose ). When prices "felt" high I went short and when they "felt" low I went long... :doh: lol But I've lost a tremendous amount of money until I've developed that intuition. I.e. you don't need the 10,000 hours of practice if you lose a lot of money as your brain makes you learn faster... so that you get not broke... :o