Horus

Its not related to the indicator! I have loaded it without a problem on about 3 machines here.

Hi Blow Fish I may have it yes. I will dig up all that I have this weekend. Mine is on backups I am sure. I will put it on an FTP for you to download.

I have read some of his original writing and also know Tim Morge (the pitchfork master ). If you have questions just contact me and Ill try and help you. I think the rules are pretty simple. I have tried to automate the rules so they are automatically drawn and tested some of the entries. The results have been average at best and with some filtering very good. So there is definitely some edge in using Pitchforks.

Careful here: You have to be careful when you use any tool and make sure that you do not make it fit your own expectations. Andrew clearly stated when you draw the pitcfork, pick Low to High points for b and c with no lower lows or high highers in between. The low in April is lower than the low in around Jan which you have picked as point b. So the low in April should have been used here instead which wont give you the pretty picture you have drawn. See my image, this is the correct way to draw the pictfork in this case.

The rocket science is using internal data without ever looking at the emini data at all! This is the first ever application of internals in this format which was disclosed to the public.

What is price driven by then? Its not driven by price itself!! Its driven by technical, fundamental, emotions and news. I dont even need to look at the price of SP to trade it... Nor do I need the volume. So I guess your assumptions are not entirely true. OddBall System is proof of the fact that you do not need to look at charts to predict direction in a consistent manner to make money. Overbought and oversold (Bullish/Bearish consensus) conditions do exist, and are driven by fear and greed. Emotions and news drives price which cause these conditions. And can be measured to an extent which provide a statistical bias one way to other. Price is an important factor in any analysis style, however not key to making consistent profits and Profits are the goal of any trader. (at least it should be!!)

The Neoticker implementation of OddBall is incorrect. They missed the timing issue which is one of the key factors in OddBall. I had no problem in 2002, the returns were less but the system made money at the end of the year. The core concept behind oddball is unbreakable because its absolute market truth. Its funny from one stand point discretionary traders always say the reason their methods like retracement, Fibonacci and pivots work is due to self fulfilling prophecy, if enough people follow it, a support level will hold! Then on the other hand, when discretionary traders talk about system, they tell you, it failed because too many people are following it! The fact is no one knows and if the core concept is solid, its very hard to break a system. SO the reason systems and methodologies fail is not because "too many" followers, rather its core concept is only a fad. Its a patterns observed which has nothing to do with the core dynamics of markets. As for variations of Oddball, just do your own research and it will be fruitful. The core concept is unique and solid. There are hundreds of variations possible some good, some great! It does take a lot of sweat to make something you are comfortable with trading. The keys to any method is the creator first then the concept. I can give a model and I GUARANTEE you out of 100 people only 2 can match my results in REAL LIFE. Turtles are system traders, at least start that way, now run empires in money management.

I have to disagree with you there. I come from the exact opposite side of everything you are assuming above. I do trade fully automated models. I do code professionally for myself. So for those of you out there that dream of automated trading, it is possible, BUT it comes at a great price. Joe Krutsinger and the gurus that sell stuff, don't trade for a living, and never made a dime trading. So I agree with you on that, they are not examples to follow or even consider. All their work is useless to me. There is so much more valuable knowledge that is priceless published for free in academic circles, I dont think you need to spend a dime on courses etc. Possibly the best public model EVER is Mark Brown's OddBall system which was published a few years back. Some of the largest hedge fund and bank traders are keying off of OddBall or some variation of OddBall. I know this for a fact and I have seen thousands of contracts pure into the pit and globex when Oddball fires of its signals. This is proof that it is possible to create your own systems and trading models, however having siad that I did hear that Mark Brown used cray computers to create and find these models. I personally still use a variation of OddDball to this day after about 5 years of it being published. Track record is solid and anyone with some basic prog knowledge can get it running!

I dont use TG and dont recommend it either. What docent work is just as important what does work. I think its fair to say that its important to hear about both sides of every approach. This is an open forum.

Anyone here trade fully automated? Or have you tried to trade fully automated in the past? What kind of issue did you face? Any day trading system traders here? What kind of commission do you pay? How many trades do you make a day? Whats the slippage on each trade?

To all readers of this thread. I do not question the value of volume and range analysis. I am sure there is a lot of value and you can find an edge within these studies. TradeGuider on the other hand is NOT volume spread analysis. I know this company from the day they started. It used to be sold under the site http://www.tradetowin.com. Here is the original software site back in 1998: Check it out. http://web.archive.org/web/19981212033547/http://www.tradetowin.com/ Here is how it works: TradeGuider is a collection of about 40 volume and range patterns for buys and sells signals, shown on the chart with arrows, rectangles etc. And that all it is, just pattern recognition. I also think they have some kind of highest high and lowest low functions built in to this analysis. For example, current bar is lowest low for min 5 bars and range and volume are X, then we have a "potential" buy or sell. Now when a bar meets one of these pattern definitions, then an arrows or rectangle shows up on screen. Here is the trick: Imagine last Friday we had an arrow to buy, then Monday, if the market goes lower, this arrow WILL disappear. If Monday meet one of these pattern definition again, another arrow will show up!! If Monday dosent meet the definitions and market goes up on Tuesday, an arrow will show up on Tuesday below Monday!!!! So in history it looks like the software picked the perfect low! Same logic applies to highs. And here you have the ingredients for "snake oil" software. Simple, backed by some fancy name, site and marketing. Oh and occasionally you WILL catch an odd high or low so no change is needed in the location of the arrow. This is not VOLUME or SPREAD analysis. Period. There is no buy or selling pressure involved here at all... Now you can called it Volume Spread Analysis by TradeGuider or as Roy Kelly calls it "The Trading Method That Can Make You Rich" - Floor Traders Tools. Roy Kelly - TradeStation See the perfect top and bottom picker. Its the same concept as TradeGuider. They change after the fact. I call this "Back Trade Analsyis". For the good folks of this forum and the new traders, stick to creating your own method, it takes time, it takes discipline and lot of determination. There are a lot of great free resources, this forum being one of the best ones I have seen. There are a few legitimate tools but very few and none perfect. Always do your home work before you pay.

WalterW, thats exactly what happened to me, its funny cause you dont even notice it until its running in realtime. When i first got a hold of VSA and Roy Kellys rubbish I was in shock after I placed my first trade! I placed the trade and 5min later the arrow changed! I thought I was seeing things or going crazy! LOL Basically the fact that the signal positions change make VSA and the concept behind it worthless. TradeGuider Systems chart signals changing means that the concept is fit to data after the fact. I spoke to Tom Williams a few years back, he even admitted he was not happy with the way the software promoters presented the concepts. Same for Roy Kellys indicators. Both VSA and Roy Kellys tradestation code are available on the old omega forums. But dont waste your time.

For those you that have the VSA software, have you looked at these arrows printed on chart in realtime? Last time I look at this software all the arrows changed position so it looks great after the fact but in realtime you will get a quick wake up call followed by empty trading account! I would be interested to see and almost guarantee this is still the case, all their arrows change position after the fact. but I can tell you now when something looks so good (roy kellys pivot trader is in this category) you have to questions it twice.