BlowFish

Pretty much focused on the ES right now. Funnily enough I was going to try the DAX this morning (I am UK based) but thought Id swing by here instead. Another problem with the DAX is around expiration you often get loads of Block trades showing on the tape. Really messes up analysis that uses volume. Cheers.

How are you finding the DAX right now smwinc? I am finding it a bit thin and erratic. Pretty much shelved it for a bit.

Great chart Tasuki, I think point 3 is pretty key. Pure Whycoff. I place as much importance on rising falling volume over a handful of bars as within the individual ones. Strictly speaking no demand should appear on an up bar (point 2) but I'd go with you on that, the bulls look spent. Lots of places to hop on too! Doesn't get much better. Cheers.

Yup looks like a similar thing in a different can There are a couple of variations on this theme. There are a few different ways of plotting too. I personally don't think it matters too much what flavour you use these are quite 'noisy' tools anyway (lets not even get started on smoothing!!). I use IB which aggregates ticks in fast markets anyway (so is inaccurate inherently). I think that maybe why my delta divergence research didn't come to much. As I say that didn't bother me as its not a direction I particularly want to go in just now. I will carry on saving images of 1 tick charts as that is my particular interest. Trying to get a more visual overview (complete with history) of the tape. Trouble is I keep forgetting to save the images before shutting down!! As I have said (I think) this is to try to improve timing rather than for trade decisions. Cheers. EDIT PS the extra code looks like it is to deal with orders between the bid and ask but I only glanced at it rather than carefully examine the logic.

Most likely though it did not get me where I wanted to go. Maybe cause I just don't like squiggly lines! If you have a search over at ET for posts by 5pillars on delta you will get up to speed pretty quickly on delta divergence. I got the impression he's 'for real' though you never know for sure. Cheers,

Indeed I am :coffee:

Only by mistake! Once not that long ago it was a weekend hold in the Russel. You go through phases of the strong moves happening in the European AM. Why not trade something that's got an out of hours session?

Splendid Vids. Not sure how much you played back but quality sorted self out after a couple of minutes. Top notch.

Break Out- sorry. Break out in general sense rather than BO of a range. So of a previous bar high low....the 'flip; line itself etc.

I meant to post a couple of 'failures' or 'anomalies' I closed my workspace before I did a screen capture <doh>. I'm going to slow up and mull over a few things. I cant remember what I have said already! Did I mention price seems to often pass the level that sees the influx of 'paper' by a few ticks before it actually makes the turn? That's interesting. I wonder if its like some kind of test. Cheers. Edit: absolutely agree with what you said above btw. I think Aggressive is fine to use if we agree to define this as "is prepared to hit the bid/ask" or "is prepared to trade at the market". Doesn't mean she wants to punch the counter party :D

Hey walter do you use your normal trigger for this trade? A couple of entries occur to me. Limit at the line. BO back below the line BO of the bar that penetrated/touched the line. I'd go with the first but suspect you might use the last

Hi Sebastian, Haven't checked the video out yet....looking forward to that. I believe camtasia has an option as saving as as an AVI. I think it 'post processes' to do that (i.e. converts it when you hit save). I am not sure whether it does .swf possibly I don't recall. Just FYI. Your obviously keeping busy in Worthing!! :pc guru: Cheers, Nick.

Cracking first post HLM. This thread shares much with this one http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f96/analysis-paralysis-and-fear-of-losing-2962.html#post26143 in this very section. Of course the irony is that all we can do is execute perfectly based on how we read the market imperfectly. Narcissism? Nah, but the ego plays its role. Be humble in the market or it will humble you! (quoted from just about every list of 'top trader traits' on the planet).

One of my motivations is to see if there is a way to read the tape without looking at the tape! Another chart seem clear that someone decided support the market at the arrow. Is this useful to know? Maybe guess if there was potential support on my 5 min chart it might be. Of course this could still easily break later on.

It is volume@bid vs volume@ask on multicharts. Because each range bar is 1 tick wide it gives a visualisation of what volume was done at each level and what side. This chart is just a timing chart, currently I am looking at it after a turn to see if it shows something a 5 min and 2 min chart doesn't. I am not using 'pure' VSA, though use price bars volume and channels for trade decisions. I have been observing this particular format of V@bis V@askfor a couple of weeks though have observed various delta configurations for a couple of years on and off. My objective here is to see if this sort of resolution can nail turns a bit better. I think that delta lends itself better to fine resolution. The peaks on the charts would seem to confirm that. Its still quite experimental for me though I did scalp off footprint charts about 18 months (or maybe more) ago fairly successfully.

Hi Tasuki, My point is perhaps this is not the thread to discuss it. The fact you use them to supplement VSA does not mean they are a part of VSA. If you think the other thread is inappropriate too maybe start one discussing VSA & upvol/downvol. VSA is very straightforward in this regard. When inventory is transferred from weak hands to strong hands or vice versa it shows up as volume. It matters not one whit whether it was on an uptickvol or downtickvol. Just like when there is no demand it matters not whether there where more uptickvol or downtickvol. Actually I put forward an idea for discussion that this is actually at odds with how smart money actually accumulates and distributes. I think this maybe demonstrable (but not here). I do think there are some flaws to the uptick = buyer downtick = seller which I have outlined in some detail but again this is probably not the best venue to discuss it that is all Im saying Anyway Im really pleased you are getting good value out of these indicators. One reason being I'd like to learn from that! I can certainly see they have utility but I am still trying to integrate them into my day to day trading. Come over to the other thread and show us all! (Im sure no one will mind if you use VSA as 'context').:fight::beer: Cheers,

Guys I dont want to sound all dictatorial but this is very different from VSA. Its still valid, interesting etc. but It would be a shame to mix two distinctly different things up. Worse you could scare off some of the VSA guys. Obviously II can't speak for any one else but from what I know certain individuals have no intention of mixing this stuff into there successful trading methods. I know its not my thread but I feel kind of responsible having invited people here to discuss VSA. Lets take it to http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/what-is-demand-supply-volume-2994.html a better venue for this discussion and I am sure both threads will flourish. Cheers.

Heres a couple of ES charts from this morning - the thing that cries out to me is that the price often drifts on a couple of ticks after the volume comes in. Oh and sometimes it comes in late. Any other observations welcome as this is quite experimental really. Edit: I added the arrows so you could see the bars the peaks occurred on. Cheers,

Mr Ed, Why market moves to size I don't really bother myself too much about any more. Observation shows it does. (Though there are many interesting reasons put forward and I certainly like to hear them). There is a particular type of order that doesn't show on the book but sits there all stealthy like. The good old stop. Guess what, every one who has been trading for a while knows exactly where those are likely to be situated....one obvious place is above/below previous swing highs and lows. This is why we see 'tests' and backing and filling it's the basis of why price moves how it does. It is simply seeking out orders. Actually that bought about a paradigm shift in me (though I forget it often in day to day trading so it is not ingrained yet). Essentially rather than price 'bouncing off support' these areas where orders are bunched or likely to be bunched are actually magnets for price. Put another way on the whole price moves too support or resistance. This is subtle difference but is interesting and I think exploitable. Just some more food for though though I guess we need to start looking for specifics that might help us see what is going on. Cheers.

I had forgotten about that thanks for pointing it out.

I have it somewhere. I am not an affirmation sort of guy so didn't use it that rigorously. The other thing was at the time I bought it I don't think I believed some of the affirmations deep down. I might dust it off and give it another go. I wouldn't like to say yay or nay really.

Hi Jerry, I have looked at both and uptick/downtick looks like a good 'proxy' for volume at bid/ask. While not identical they look very similar. If you think about it price is likely to tick up to the ask and down to the bid. Of course you do get cases where this is not the case but on the whole the two look very similar. Tradestation offers this uptick downtick natively though there are indicators available to do @bid @ask. Cheers. P.S. I cant post charts right now as they only accumulate the volume corectly in real time.

I think its possibly one of the simplest 'pure' ways to trade. These lines on longer term charts (a few weeks of hourly is pretty good) often mark major S/R. Especially if they have been tested a few times. Then you drop down to a lower time frame and either short if they hold or play the BO if they don't. I think most traders (me for sure) tend to try and over complicate things. Cheers.

Glad you agreed with most of my post . This was a bit sloppy on my part. VSA tends to use 'smart money' as a type of catch all for the guys that are privy to stuff we dont know, it is kind of implied that they also have the guys that take massive positions. Really there is just a right side and a wrong side in the timeframe you trade!! As I mention now and then the commitment of traders report would indicate The % winners and losers don't really vary that much amongst the various market participants. In a nutshell I agree the big guys loose too. The way I see it (which maybe a bit different to the pure VSA view) is that there is 'smart money' that knows stuff we don't or simply has there own agenda. They are probably 'large'. Where I agree with you and perhaps stray from the pure VSA view is there are also a whole bunch of 'dumb' participants trading size too. Anyway I digress. The thing you introduce is the other piece of information that we can use as traders. That is the order book. Basically its inventory the participants choose to advertise. Incidentally I think this is another area where people tend to use intuition and get it wrong. If you watch the order book price tends to move towards size not away from it. In fact the old timers say 'size trades to size'. I think probably one of the key thing is how the advertised inventory (order book) reacts to the aggressive sellers. I have noticed a few things but I find it quite tricky sometimes. As yet I have never discovered a tape reader that can really explain it! Anyway I hope we can get some practical application out of this stuff as it is unique market generated data. Cheers

OK going to carry on the discussion in the thread Jerry has started as Mr Ed has introduced yet another dimension the final piece of market generated data a trader can use See you guys there http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/what-is-demand-supply-volume-2994.html Cheers.