BlowFish

I think its started in the late 80's but there was a wrinkle in order placing on the NASDAQ that utilised the Small Order Execution System (SOES). Essentially it was a system to preference the small lot (under 1000 from memory trader). It let you scalp with guaranteed fills. This lead to a bunch of traders they called "SOES Badndits". This was what spawned all the L2 'methods'. After the advantage to small lot traders was eliminated and ECN's proliferated (particularly those that allowed large traders to 'hide' there orders better) I think the advantage of using L2 was largely eroded. That's just my opinion though.

I hope that the prognosis is good and that the pooch makes a full and speedy recovery. Cheers.

I think IB and quote tracker might do it for you maybe just IB's platform. I have always found IB fast for order entry. You can do one click trades and set an entry stop and target all from that single click. Fills and execution are as good as any. I live in europe. TWS have major data centres that there software (TWS) connects too in the US Europe and Asia. You used to be able to select which centre you connect to when you installed. Now I think it takes a phone call. There infrastructure is good. I believe I connect to the US centre. One thing IB do is aggregate data (in fast markets they will add several ticks together and send it as one) This means that that you seldom get delays. It is a good choice for scalping.

I think its the matrix like tool that will probably be the problem. IB are a good solid no frills broker. The only criticism some level at them is if you have to phone them their service tends to be slow. I am not sure what sort of features you need in your matrix grid? They have a 'list type' view. There is also a wealth of software that interfaces with IB from order entry platforms to charts. Something like Quotetracker might do what you wish, that is free or you can subscribe for a modest amount that increases the historical data you can view. If you need programmable 'cells' in your matrix perhaps an excel spreadsheet? IB will drive that too. I am pretty sure that the lack of responses is because people don't know what to suggest. Maybe if you give a bit more info about what you need from a matrix people might be able to help.

Hmmm, I must have some old junk.....err I mean....holy grail idea to trade with you. Looks like a decent little system. Let me try and think of something you would like I guess anything to do with lines and geometry is likely to be in your toolbox already.

Db I agree it dosen't have to be completely altruistic. In the past I have 'mentored' people and to do that effectively have employed them. (This was not in the trading business btw it was actually 'knowledge' based). In many endeavours people can be somewhat productive more or less from day one. Trading is rather different. In any commercial arrangement things go wrong when expectations of the parties do not match. Be crystal clear before you start. Of course those that are in the business of selling hopes and dreams may not be exactly candid in laying out what they offer. Fledgling traders are quite likely to have un-realistic expectations too. A recipe for disaster!

Mentoring is essentially an altruistic pursuit. I would be wary of anyone that wanted money and question the reason for that (to prove your seriousness perhaps?). The reason someone will mentor you is if they like you and as Db points out, feel that you have potential. If they ask for money then thats a red flag. But......... Having said that what makes a would be trader think that they deserve to be mentored? No financial recompense is likely to match what the mentor can make in the markets. Why do you think someone would want to mentor you (if its clearly not for money). Bootstrap what you are talking about sounds similar to the prop shop model (another way to fleece would be traders). Do you really think a successful trader would teach you to trade (the way you want to learn rather than the way they want to teach) for absolutely nothing, next you' will be saying they should fund your account (oh wait you are saying that!) Do you also expect a wage while you learn? come on do you really expect that to happen? Worth looking for a post by Mark 'Nihabashi' either here or ET that goes in to detail about what a Mentor is likely to expect from you. If they don't chances are they are just after your money. OP good advise most self styled mentors are not.

Degree of aggression can be measured by degree of 'earliness' or 'lateness' as measured from a turning point. By waiting for confirmation you often give up trade location to have confirmation and also momentum already on your side. As you note the very earliest (most aggressive traders) will trade before the turn. (buying into a selling climax) This by definition would be counter trend trading. The later you trade (the further away) the less aggressive you are. You pay for this with poorer trade location and so potentially higher risk. As I mentioned above you have momentum working for you as compensation. 'Break out' traders and 'trend followers' are the latest. Of course if you are really late trading a pull back for example you run the risk of trading straight into the next turn. Getting the right style (early or late) for your personality is one of the fundamental choices you make as a trader so worthy of special consideration. Personally I trade early (I try and trade as close to the turn as possible) and with quite a high frequency.

I really do like it as it is. The single to noise ratio is outstanding. Moderation is excellent there are some great contributors. The size of the community is good, diverse enough to be interesting but small enough to be 'tight'. Of course your tireless efforts to make it the best is really why we are lucky enough to have this great place to hang out. I guess you where looking for constructive criticism and there's me sounding like a shill selling the latest greatest trading system. I don't normally gush :embarassed: it must be the holiday spirit. I can think of a few things that might harm TL but to be honest I really wouldn't change much.

Thanks for taking the time to reply in more detail. The idea of a 'true edge' rather than just exploiting some market inefficiency or tendency is intriguing. It is a long time since I sat down and wrote out facts about the market (it was when I last did a trading plan) maybe its time I did again. I can see how the other points you make flow from these market facts. I wonder what form they (the facts) will take? For example for a market to go down it must make new lows, for that to happen old ones must break. I don't think anyone would dispute that as a fact. If you are a break out trader I guess you have the start of a plan right there. I should let you state your 10 facts but it's rather fun to guess.

Mea, as I said elsewhere I look forward to hearing more. The couple of teasers have certainly piqued my interest I am genuinely perplexed by a couple of your statements as I mentioned a few posts back. Hopefully all will become clear in due course. Being a new contributor here I have no idea of your modus operandi, I am sure that will change over time. With some of the regular contributors here you can anticipate what they will say before they say it! Filling in the blanks therefore is usually straightforward. Anyway I don't think you could have picked a better venue for your outing. Cheers.

Probably the safest and most unambiguous way to go. Of course Walter had become a good efriend to a lot of us so understandable to cut some slack. Walter, I hope that you aren't too busy to come and hang out here now and then! Good luck.

Well I had a little try getting it going this morning but no joy seems to connect but not download data. I am with mirus rather than amp wonder if thats the issue? Maybe I'll call support tomorrow...doubt if I will be trading beeing a US holiday. Blu did you take a look at the gradient stuff? Some quite neat code in there.

Looks like originalturtles.com has gone. This was the ruleset that I looked at. What makes the system is the money management rules, and those may be of interest to people. The trigger is simply a BO Donchian style. I find the sparring between Sands & Faith amusing but thats another story. Heres the copy of the originalturtles.com version for those interested. Takes a certain kind of emotional strength (and a pretty large account) to be a full on trend follower, not my sort of thing though the simplicity is tempting.

Wow I have not swung by the MC forums for a while as I have been using Ninja + Zenfire, then i notice that your charts are being driven by .......Zenfire. That deserves a small woot and might get me using MC again.

Heres the complete routine .txt I'm afariad as I seem to have misplaced the original and I don't think multicharts exports .eld I include the whole indicator as there are several neat ideas in there. Cheers.

As you probablly know I am quite a fan of Tim Morge (though un-affiliated apart from owning his book). Coincidently I just got notified of a new article at http://www.medianline.com Tim talks about fundamental conditions (inflation in particular) and shows a trade at the end. Several interesting points including why he tries to be extra careful trading when he has an opinion. From the article my guess is he does not think the worse is over, but check it out its not a bad read.

I have a code snipet from a 'footprint' chart that someone did over at multicharts. It does an x period average and then colours depending on how far above/below average the datum is. I think it has 5 or so intensities of colour. I seem to recall it's all automatic, I can have a search for it if you are interested. Actually just colouring bars/candles based on volume might be interesting.

You sure it wasn't "one you prepared earlier". Looks good BR. I wonder if you could get something good going with the different intensity of colours (i.e. a nice spread of brightnesses) whether that would suffice. I guess an alternative would be filled rectangles (drawn objects) but messy to keep track of I guess.

I shall look forward to hearing more, reading between the lines it sounds as if you approach the markets in quite a different way to many of the participants here, always good to get some variety going! Going back to automated trading 'systems' one of the oft quoted advantages is that they minimise emotions in trading (usually at the expense of more mediocre results). I just find it interesting that people will sometimes over ride there systems, not because they are incomplete, but because in this instance they feel the signal is wrong. (I can't sell here we have just had 5 straight down days - I'll turn the system off today and back on when we have had a correction - or more likely I am simply going to ignore this signal because i know better than my system/plan).

It appears I must have (missed it). Perhaps you could talk about 'facts' as you know them and how they apply to reading supply and demand on a trade by trade basis. To be honest your original statement seemed to be rhetoric, perhaps you could expand on it? My universe of facts (I prefer to think of 'truths' ) pertaining to the markets is pretty small. I have several fairly strong beliefs that are based on empirical research and observations but those sure ain't facts. In the past few years I have done quite a bit of research on 'the tape', order book analysis, and market delta. I have spotted characteristic's but again not many useful facts. I would have to disagree about an edge being a proof of any fact about the markets. To me it simply shows that you can recognise a tendency in a market and exploit it. If you buy when the 15ma crosses the 50ma you will 'win' x% with a risk of ruin of y% etc. The only fact is the statistics themselves. Do you believe that "reading price action by looking at each trade" can give you an edge? If you do how do you suggest we "look at" (or visualise) that data to exploit that edge? On most instruments it is quite difficult to look at that raw data and make sense of it in real time (though some clearly manage too). This is my understanding of what the thread is about but maybe I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, it wouldn't be the first time. Cheers. P.S. There are a couple of other threads that might interest you the one about whether markets are predictable and errr... I forgot the second one.

I don't believe TS can vary a bars width bar by bar (though may be wrong). Ninjatrader I believe has some sort of custom bar plot but I couldn't tell you whether you can vary the width easily. Might be worth investigation. Do you really think it improves your trading compared to say just looking at price and volume? I guess the answer must be yes or is it your addiction clouding your mind It definitely gives you another layer of information I just wonder how useful you really find it?

Larry Pesavento had a paper weight or something on his desk that he used to pick up and examine before making hasty trade decisions. I tried making tea but I must say i found it hard to walk away from the screen at key junctures.

Not familiar with either of those Darth, the titles sound interesting and potentially relevant. The comment was addressed to Mea who perhaps might have missed the main thrust of this thread.

How do you test a way of visualising order flow/supply demand? The only way I can think of is by trying it and seeing if the way of representing the data helps you 'see' the shifts. So empirical study rather than testing, I guess thats what you meant?