YertleTurtle

I'm not sure why you are showing such hostility toward me. I'm happy to expand on how I use Wyckoff principles to trade. I also reposted the original course because all the links have gone dead. I'm not going to write a dissertation 3 months after a question was asked.

I use Wyckoff for trading gold and forex. You are not wasting your time although this forum is dead.

Wyckoff's original course Wyckoff - Course.pdf (public domain) - and Division 2 Tape Reading and Active Trading Tape Reading and Active Trading.pdf

What is OS? The new SLA document is first class. Oversold. OB=overbought.

It has improved some over the last few years. Its still not great but it really depends what you want to do with it. For basic charting etc. its fine. I should note I don't place orders through ToS but just chart.

Anyone still lurking in here? I'd like to get some people excited about Taylor again.

Diva - yes fib traders use 50% as one of their levels and no this has nothing to do with the fib sequence. They just added it because it works.

It annoys me to no end because of the bad math being used. 50% is not a fib level but every fib trader I've seen uses this. If their "theory" is there is something sacred about these numbers then adding a level erodes this argument. Fib levels often appeal to beginners who use these levels in lieu of an understanding of market structure. There are also so many fib levels that they are always going to look appealing to a beginner. I personally believe (although I'm not going to waste time looking at it) that I could use levels like 25%, 33%, 50%, 66%, 75% etc. and these projections would look equally good. Plenty of unsuccessful traders use fib levels. I know at least one institutional trader who uses fib levels so he can run stops. I always find the study of something ethereal to be a waste of time.

Your son's sequence is correct. The ratio of n/(n+1) in that sequence approaches the number that is approximated as 6.18. 33%, 50% and 75% have nothing to do with Fibonacci. I'm sure there are people who successfully trade this stuff but it annoys me to no end. Beginners seem to stumble on Fibonacci levels and treat it as the holy grail.

gozila - Here you go: http://cdn3.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/131/17907d1263785828-wyckoff-resources-wyckoff-method-tape-reading.pdf

I have no problem with vendors (as long as they aren't selling the moon) but I agree with DB - vendors aren't a good solution for someone who wants to learn how to be an independent trader. Often beginners hop from vendor to vendor and end up with system indigestion. Its much better to study, test and learn one strategy.

I'm so confused now that you are no longer Cartman in a wizard costume.

A little off topic but god I hate fibs. I do watch the 50% level occasionally but this isn't a fib level. I'm not sure how 50 got added to the fibonacci sequence for traders but it certainly isn't based on the math of the sequence.

I don't really agree here. A trader can have fixed rules without developing an automated system. I am a discretionary day trader but I have well defined trade setups and profit targets as well as money management practices that allow me to trade successfully. So some of my rules are fixed and some are fluid but they are clearly defined. These are my rules but I couldn't simply program them into a computer and print money. I think using the term "criteria" instead of "rules" is just semantics.

If I plan my trade and take profits where my plan indicates and the market goes another 1000 pips - I could care less. I got my piece and followed my plan. What the market does after I exit is the same to me as what the market does while I'm sleeping - its just part of the next setup. Too often traders become obsessed with what they missed but like DbP pointed out - you can't trade 24/7 and you rarely will capture 100% of a move. There is always another setup. Breaking one's plan is much more criminal that missing profit or missing a trade. If you are consistently missing a ton of profit then its time to re-evaluate the plan.

Market structure is a difficult subject to give a brief overview of so I'm not sure how to answer this question. I primarily am a median line trader. If you want to learn more about median lines you should go to marketgeometry.com. This made a huge difference in my trading although it took a lot of work. Basically median lines (if used correctly) are a leading indicator. They can be drawn way before channels and there are statistical probabilities associated with their use. I have attached my current hourly chart of oil with just my current lines. If it makes some intuitive sense to you you may want to study them in more detail and I would be happy to answer any questions you have about them. 20 cents stops may work in oil. 10 cents is likely too small given the volatility. It depends on the timeframe you trade. Off an hourly chart I often take trades in the 50 cents range. In my opinion stops should be placed in a logical place - not a fixed distance. Targets should be at least 3 times the stop with a reasonable expectation of being reached. Median lines allow the user to frame risk/reward more clearly than other methodologies I have come across. Any market can be traded on nearly any time frame. The market is fractal in nature. Volatility is a factor but a trader can scalp on a 5 minute chart or trade weekly charts. Again - in my opinion - after a trader has established that he can consistently make money - he should never risk more than 2% on any one trade. This can help determine what timeframe you can afford. Sometimes a trader will only be able to afford very small timeframes but won't have the ability to trade them. This is why I like forex for newer traders. There is plenty of liquidity and volatility and a trader can figure out what time frame suits his personal disposition. I guess my question to you would be - why oil? Is the object of trading to make money or to prove yourself? What is it about oil that makes you think this particular market gives you an edge? As a technical trader - my only criteria is that a market is moving. There are forex pairs that strongly correlate with oil. I said it before but the number one rule of trading is to preserve your capital. I personally believe that a trader has to earn size. I also believe there are certain markets a trader must earn. Oil falls into that category for me.

What do you mean by "automated" - you want the software to place trades for you? People selling trading systems are generally scammers (not all but good luck figuring out who is who). Learn to trade or go to Vegas.

You probably won't listen to me but you should not trade Oil Futures as a relative beginner. Oil and Gold are probably the two toughest markets to trade. I would suggest trading foreign exchange because a couple of the pairs are nice to trade (AUD/USD for example) and because you can trade real money but micro lots. Also - the spread scales so your position size isn't more costly if you trade smaller. Even though I don't know you I will say this - you have a lot more to learn. You don't have an approach to trading, you don't know whether you are a technical or fundamental trader. You probably have little understanding of market structure and price action. I'm not trying to insult you - I just want to tell you that without a clear trading plan, a lot of experience watching markets and success paper trading (or trading small) - you might as well go to Vegas. Remember - the number one rule of trading is - preserve your capital. If you have your heart set on trading oil then trading QM will help to slow the bleeding. I wouldn't trade under 15 minute charts because the slippage will be brutal. Personally I trade oil off of an hourly chart. I don't use multiple timeframes, I don't use indicators and I don't look at fundamentals. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'm profitable.

Definitely sign up for his nightly news letter - its free and his charting is simple and elegant.

Dr. Dayton was taught by David Weis. He also is a user of the Weis Wave and has numerous mentions of it on his website and in the charts he posts.

I just don't get the methodology. Maybe its because I'm drunk but I read about 20 pages of TRO writing the same thing and posting charts. The charts posted make it seem like there is never a losing trade as does the title. As far as I can tell there is no reasoning behind the methodology and no statistics to back up the "never lose again" claims. Its also not clear why your results would be effected by sticking with one direction only. If a green rat never loses and a red rat never loses then surely a green and red rat would never lose twice as much. Also claims of having the longest threads on various sites seems mostly due to TRO posting incessantly in these touted threads. I'm sure his free indicators are worth the price and I do agree with the sentiment that one does not need indicators to trade.

David Weis is someone I really respect. I don't own his Weis Wave but I coded my own. I find it helpful along side VSA and the Wyckoff Method. I've only been using it for a short while and IMO it shows areas of no supply/demand and areas where there is a lot of effort and not much result allowing to either take positions with more confidence or where there isn't a bar you would take a position off of. It also shows the shortening of the thrust indicating potential reversals. Its a tool like anything else. Its simple in its design and anyone with familiarity with the three basic Wyckoff laws will find it useful. (Supply v Demand, Effort v Result and Cause v Effect). Just my two cents.

I should add that David Weis has a free nightly report focused on the S&P that is very informative. Just looking at the way he draws lines on a chart is very helpful to new traders. He isn't a VSA guy but a Wyckoff expert: David Weis' FREE Nightly Market Report Based on Wyckoff Principles

Master the Markets is probably the standard book for VSAers. TG software is not necessary for learning VSA. I've never used it but if you understand the concepts you don't need it. For beginners - 1 - read the background looking for strength or weakness 2 - look for climatic action 3 - look for no supply/ no demand to take position VSA works with EOD data. You could also trade the London open for currencies if you wanted to day or swing trade.

The OP states basically defines technical analysis as trading price patterns and claims doing so doesn't give a trader an edge. He then states that trading based on volume analysis or tape reading will give a trader an edge. Of course these are still technical analysis techniques.