Mr_You

Lenovo or Apple ... never owned a Lenovo, but have heard from many satisfied customers. These days I recommend Lenovo or Apple to the average user. I'm sure they can assist you with your needs. They being the Lenovo website/sales support or Apple store. Yes you can run Windows on an Apple. Asus if you are considering a custom PC, but I would try out sales/support service from Lenovo or your nearest Apple store. Let us know your experience.

I bring up the main page and it says there are 220 Unread Posts, but when I click the Unread Posts link under My Account I only see 2 threads. And those total posts aren't 220 and one thread started in 2008, so...... bug? EDIT: I just now noticed when I click Unread Posts under the main menu (beside Latest Posts) that I get a different (correct?) result.

I haven't used it, but I just came across "Encog" which has instructions for integration with NinjaTrader. I'm guessing integrating with other platforms would be similar. Development appears to be active, v3 is in beta testing.

Though its probably too soon to say for sure... and I know most of us require Windows, but Macs can run Windows... I'm wondering what will be possible with Intels/Apples Thunderbolt connection. I think in theory you're suppose to be able to daisy chain multiple displays, peripherals, hard drives, etc. With the iMac you can already hook two iMacs together and switch between the two machines running OSs with each machine using the others display for dual-displays. Atleast thats how I understand it works. But the real question is, will all this work for Windows 7 without hitch. I like Apples latest hardware, but who knows what my choice will be when the time comes. Just throwing this out there.

The problem with TradeStation is you are stuck with one broker versus other platforms that allow you to switch between brokers without changing your trading platform and code. I think it would be an interesting task to port TradeStation EasyLanguage strategies to NinjaTrader or NeoTicker. doubletop11, have you looked at the TradeStation Connection Guide for NinjaTrader? EDIT: OOPS! I just realized you can't execute trades directly, BUT I wonder if you could archieve execution by tying them together using DLLs OR even consider using AutoHotKey or a similar tool which sends key/mouse strokes/clicks to a Windows app.

Here is a table detailing the specs about data feed providers. For tick-by-tick historical data, IQFeed is the best for the money. Most historical data is not tick-by-tick but End of Day (EOD) which is not sufficient for intraday backtesting. You'll also want to record tick data for stocks you monitor (another feature provided by the tools mentioned). You're basically correct about the rest except you probably will not need to compile outside of Visual Studio if I understand correctly. You will probably not use ASP.NET (or anything .NET unless you need a GUI), but you would use C# to access Interactive Brokers C# API (because IB is the best/most cost effective) while accessing IQFeeds data via another C# library. You will probably never use FIX. Correction: IB only offers API access via C++, Visual Basic, or Java. You would need to perform DLL calls to access the API via C# or use a third-party library/wrapper. But again, you will essentially be reimplementing a lot of the standard features of most commonly used trading platforms. Wasting a lot of time IMO. Its easier/more efficient to just tie tools together. Even over a network to another machine if necessary.

Anything that is based on a random outcome is gambling... many people do not think Poker is gambling because skill is involved in the outcome. Systematic trading is hedging, just like any other business that buys and sells a product within certain time frames for a profit. IMO, anyone who is trading without a system is clueless and they ARE gambling.

From what I understand, you can get around it by using a proprietary trading firm that actually acts as a broker. But then you are stuck with their commissions, fees, software and who knows what else.

As already pointed out.... If you are a beginner programmer then there is absolutely no reason (or logic) to "reinvent the wheel" and build an entire trading AND backtesting platform when they already exist. Only institutions or proprietary trading companies do this. And even then most quantitative traders have traditionally used Matlab in addition to a broker connector (Interactive Brokers) and/or data feed connector (IQFeed) at a minimum for prototyping/backtesting but often for live trading. The answer to most of your questions is: Yes you could use ______, but you're a beginner programmer so there is a very high learning curve and you would be better off using tools which already implement ______ for you. You want to implement socket code without even knowing what is involved! Imagine the disaster that could occur from a bug when live trading! What you want are tools that give you the details you need in order to analyze those details against a mathematical model (which is quantitative trading vs standard automated/algorithmic trading). So using NinjaTrader or NeoTicker, you would access other mathematical libraries or tools (such as quantlib or R) from within your strategy code. How you access these will depend, but most likely you'll be making DLL calls if you're using C#. Beware of slippage!! Keep this in mind.... Over and over again, I've read how most quantitative traders agree that the simple strategies are the most successful. My advice is to start with Ninja Trader and evolve to other tools and/or integrate tools/code as your strategies require. As mentioned, its relatively easy to port your strategies and you can almost always call external code. What can be the most important issue is whether your tool of choice can give you access to the details your strategies need: true sub-second tick data from IQFeed. From what I can tell, NeoTicker does and NinjaTrader should, but I need to confirm this for myself. BTW, I have investigated all opensource solutions and they are either buggy or have poor release cycles (TradeLink) or their development has stagnated or lagged (IBrokers for R and Marketcetera).

I agree with Tams. And came to the same conclusion after researching available options. For ANY newbs: Get your feet wet with NinjaTrader, look at the examples they provide (and GomiPackage v1.3b available at NinjaTrader forum). Don't worry about using .NET or other libraries, focus on using NinjaScript which is based on C#. NinjaTrader is easy to use for the average newbie compared to other common trading tools, which means you won't get frustrated early on trying to do something simple. NinjaTrader v7 Help Guide I'm going to use the Simulated Data Feed and recording E-mini S&P via Zen-Fire (free trial) data feed for replaying. Good luck!

I appreciate everyones comments. Well I've decided to just get started any way I can with whats available to me. So I'm looking at MarketDelta, NeoTicker, NinjaTrader, and free/trial/cheap data feeds. Ninja Trader appears to be the most user friendly to the newb. I'm studying up on Market Profile, Market Auction Theory, Supply/Demand analysis methodologies. If anyone has any comments regarding these tools/methods I would be very glad to hear them. Thanks again!

Thanks Traderx59! Yeah thats a good idea. I've been thinking about that lately. Some experience is better than none. Regarding the software tools I've been investigating. I have mixed feelings about all of them resulting from annoying bugs and a high learning curve (from sophisticated proprietary software such as NeoTicker). Or the risk of using working but non-production ready software with very little recent updates (from open source software IBrokers R library). As mentioned previously, my personal trading style (Tape Reading) along with separating the datafeed (IQFeed) and broker connection (IB) narrows the list of potential tools. Mathematical modeling is also very interesting. So a little more research to come I think.

Here's a Market Data Feeds table from MultiCharts. IQFeed seems the best. NinjaTrader and MultiCharts can't do want I need. I'm looking into NeoTicker right now and it looks like it might work for me. If not then I'll be using R (R+RStudio+IBrokers+iqfeed) or a combination of tools.

Yeah I have looked into TradeLink and I am trying it for somethings, but I've experienced too many bugs. There doesn't appear to be a production quality release/branch emphasizing stability. I prefer a cross-platform solution, but I'm still checking into TradeLink occasionally. I've also checked into Marketcetera, but there are some concerns there too. I'll check into TickZOOM. Thanks.

I appreciate Tams and everyones posts. Really enjoying learning all I can about trading. Yeah I should clarify some things.. So "Tape Reading" vs "tape reading" (to me hehe).... Tape Reading is: manually or algorithmically analyzing the tick-by-tick data for a given stock: bid, bidsize, ask, asksize, last, lastsize. This could be done in real-time or replaying "recorded"/saved data (for backtesting or manually observing) and/or relying on a data provider with near tick-by-tick data (one second or less snapshots). So... First I want to observe and study the market manually (literally "read the tape" for discretionary trading) while also learning my tick-by-tick capable tools. I'm sure I will probably end up porting some EasyLanguage based strategies later on. I've paid, not much really, a mentor for manual Tape Reading training for discretionary trading. Regarding the tick-by-tick tools... I have installed the MultiCharts v7 trial and visited it off and on. I'll check again tonight regarding its tick-by-tick analysis capabilities. I found it VERY easy to install, connect, and demo: Interactive Brokers Trader Workstation, R, RStudio, and the IBrokers R package which connects R to IB via the TWS API. This setup is very appealing! It beats any opensource trading platform I've come across, but I need to further investigate IBrokers maturity. Who knows maybe I can contribute to the project. I wasn't able to get the ibPy Python package (connects Python to IB TWS API) installed on this Windows XP installation. I will try it on Linux when time allows. But unfortunately the project looks abandoned (last release was Dec 2008). I may only use Python for utility purposes, not trading strategies. I've toyed with Matlab in the past, but found it a little overwhelming. I like the simplicity and price of R and RStudio (a desktop OR browser based R IDE!!). Matlab will probably be a last resort.

Can you be more specific? Do most day traders who make a living in this field not have a "career" in this field? I realize it takes years. Not sure what you mean by this. Tape Reading is the oldest known method of watching the action. From what I understand, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, NinjaTrader and MultiCharts do not offer as much detail in their automation APIs as say something like Interactive Brokers API + Matlab or R or Python. FYI, NinjaTrader uses C#. I'll try to post an update soon.

Hello! I'm a total newb to trading. I've been a systems engineer for over 15 years now and ready for a career change. I'm mostly interested in tape reading and so that is the current path I am taking. But I am also interested in automated trading, quantitative analysis, etc. So I've been searching for which software I should invest my time and money. I did a quick search in this sub-forum and didn't find an answer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the latest versions of Ninja Trader and MultiCharts do not appear to offer automated trading with enough flexibility/tick detail to "read the tape". Or maybe MultiCharts comes close but their PowerLanguage is not flexible enough? I'm also very interested in Python, R+RStudio, but the libraries available do not appear to be as complete as most trading-specific software packages. It would essentially require me to write my own functions which may not be a huge problem but it requires more initial effort to get up and running. I understand Matlab is the dominant tool for quantitative analyst but R seems to have a lot of momentum. Its also free which greatly reduces your cost if your using multiple machines. I realize I may end up using different software packages for different situations/requirements, but I would like to get started with automating tape reading first. So can anyone offer any direction? Thanks!