illcrx

I go through the same things, I am the only one I know that is even remotely interested in the markets. It is tough trying to quantify theories only in your head without outside reflection and opinion. But the "glaze" is all too real unfortunately, I think because most think that what we do is a crap shoot at best and they do not really understand the capital markets as a whole let alone do they understand that with hard work, understanding and a lot of luck you can actually make it. Its the entrepreneurial spirit vs. the working Joe, Joe likes it safe and you talking about your gambling addiction is against his/her religion.

I cant be sure if you talking about an actual bull trap or if your talking about a normal reversal, also your style of trading, timeframe for trades and a few other things need to be discussed before you can get an answer that will actually help you. The best way though to get out of any trap or reversal is to have strict money management rules that you adhere to 100% of the time after you find a system that you can work within. This way it doesnt matter if its a trap, reversal, pullback or whatever you can always protect yourself. Remember that you can always get back into a trade, but they will never give you that money back!

There are a few things that should be added to any/this system, IMO. 1) What stocks are you trading? Make sure that your not trading any old stock, MSFT is not going to give you that breakout that your looking for. You need to limit your focus stock list with whatever system you have to pick winners, I like IBD personally they do a lot of the work for you and it works! If you dont care for IBD at least check the new highs list each day for winners. The ones that breakout first are more likely the ones that will have institutional sponsorship. 2) Market Direction, from #1 you can see that I like IBD well they are 100% right when they say that you are going to fight a very difficult battle if you do not know what the market is doing which is why you need to put that into your equation. 3) The chart patterns are VERY viable, though the percentage of reliability is up to discussion, because it depends on the 2 factors above, if your looking for the viability of a triangle pattern and the market is CRAP and the stock is CRAP you going to get CRAP results! :crap: 4) Volume! This is important, if you dont think so then thats another debate. This should be part of any strategy, yes you can make money in a low volume rise however you'll have a harder time verifying the move especially if your going to write a trading algorythm, which is what your doing.

Price or Volume its like Chicken or the Egg. You cant have significant price increase without volume behind it and you cant get to the significant volume until price gets to a certain level. I believe that they are intimately correlated but volume is much more important than price, though there are times where you can make good gains on low volume up-trends, like the latter part of this last bull run. But we all know how that ended......... If you were to ask the very successful traders that use Volume in their equation they all look for high volume to support whatever style they use. Most also look for volume dry up to quantify a base. In MY opinion Volume is paramount over price, whether it leads; is another debate. If a breakout occurs, and use whatever time-frame or trendline you want to quantify breakout, and its on low volume it does not have the support behind it that is needed for it to continue and is likely to be a shakeout move. Besides there are tons of stocks to choose from and if the one that Im looking at is not acting right I will move on to a stock that IS breaking out on volume. The reason that the Chicken and the Egg is such a difficult question is because its hard to answer, just eat your eggs. On a side note I think the Egg came first. Genetic abnormalities within an Egg likely created the first chicken, it only takes one gene to make a new species. I doubt there was a chicken like species that in the middle of its life became a chicken then laid an egg.

I can guarantee you instant money........quit trading and you wont loose any. OR study everything about your market and about different styles of trading. It takes 10,000 hours (im told) to end up being professional at something. Stock market, or forex, is no different. Another thing, if you want instant money then to look for change in the street, thats instant money. Instant is a one time thing and money does not imply the amount of money you want ,so your statement makes no sense, hence YOU WILL LOOSE. Its sounding like you have delusions of grandeur and if your going to trade with that attitude just send me your money, at least it'll go to a good cause and you wont be frustrated afterwards. If you goal is to trade for a living, go listen to your mentor and do everything he tells you. If your not comfortable with what hes telling you then get another one if you have that option. Or teach yourself, but its a very bumpy road.

Well ForexQuantChix post your story?

Check out Chartpattern.com, hes pretty good with that.

I hear you Enigmatics, with a small account you have lots of disadvantages but I will say this. You must not rely on trading when you have debt and bills to pay! The NEED to make money will cloud your judgement and only make you loose more. Now everyone has bills to pay but if you can only see living 1-4 months on the money you have left then your only hurting yourself. It is the best advice that Ive heard and Im in the process of doing just that, I am trading with fake money right now so I can still be involved and get a feel for whats going on. Im also trading my Roth IRA. I dont know your financial situation but if your stressing about income that much its going to really hinder you.

Well if you are daytrading or scalping you have to expect lots of trading fees and be prepared for the drawdown that has on a small account. I also have a small account. I myself "try" to swing trade lol but in the chatroom I go to there is a terrific day trader who has profit targets and when those get hit he takes it. I think thats the way to day trade, though to each their own. If your account is getting smaller and smaller you need to see if its due to your trading or due to your commissions. I was astonished at how much commission i was paying. But you need to be very cautious with a smaller account and if you are having problems and arent profitable then you need to look back and see what has and hasnt worked and focus on what did. Oh by the way, were in a bear market now. Just my 2c

What is your trading style? Are you a day trader or a swing trader? Do you just trade pivots or counter moves? VSA has many uses, intraday or daily.

Wow I really appreciate all of the feedback and advice, I also hope this thread helps others in similar positions. Well I am going to continue trading, I just need to master what I already know. I have been trading on and off for 6-7 years, when Im unemployed I trade lol. I have written some trading rules that should work well for ME and if I follow them should take away some of MY shortcomings as a trader. Im going to do the unthinkable and share this! Maybe you guys have some input or want to steal some of the list. Trading Rules: __ 1) Only buy from your current written buy list. Buy list consists of: TZA TNA One large stock-leader One small stock-grower __ 2) In order to put a stock on the buy list you must do homework on the stock. __ 3) The stock must be a leader or THE leader in its sector __ 4) The stocks sector must be going up in the IBD sector list __ 5) Only buy within 2% of the buy point. Follow Dan's rules for getting into and out of a stock __ 6) Company MUST have an innovative product or dominate its market __ 7) Market Direction must be clear, go in direction of the market. Follow The Big Picture in IBD for guidance __ 8) If market goes very toppy TZA is the choice to go long, maybe even options 10% only __ 9) If market goes long choose the best of the others a. Best base structure b. Best chance for 50% return c. Stock that acted best in downturn __ 10) If you must use options 10% of account maximum. One thing I see is that I need sell rules DAMN! Oh well its all a process, That'll be another post I guess.

Tradewinds, I know what your talking about I have talked with a few traders and felt like a burden and eventually those relationships dwindled, also with beginning traders its like the blind leading the blind. I think that if I were to find a mentor with a different style than me I would learn that style as long as it wasnt 180 degrees off of mine. I think most of traders kind of follow the same psychological strategy even if their methods are different and thats the hard part to learn. Steve, I already have a strategy and yes I have tried many different styles and have taken a few cues from some of them but I have settled on the swing trading style of IBD and Zanger they seem to fit what I want out of trading and I can see what they see I just cant get the rest together. Thanks guys!

WRBtrader, you have some very good points. I am not 100% perfectly ready I will admit that. I do not have steady income but I have very few bills. I have been unemployed for 18 months and live off of side jobs and that more than gets me by. But one very important thing that I dont have and have searched for is a "trading buddy" and I cannot find one. My girlfriend, friends and have even tried talking to some traders when I come across them, none of them have been interested in an ongoing relationship regarding trading. I do like to work with others and sometimes talking to people about things really helps, this I am definitely lacking in.

Wow thank a lot everyone for your input, it has been very helpful and encouraging. I definitively understand what you guys are saying in that I dont have those things written down and you are absolutely right and I will start to do that. SRspider, I actually read your thread before I posted this one! Very good insight. BlowFish, you are absolutely right I am doomed to fail with the way that I do things, the old way. Maybe it was an excuse, maybe it was me trying to trade the lazy way as life gets hectic and the GF doesnt like me spending hours on the computer. But no more! You guys have rejuvenated me! I will get back on this horse but I wrote down a few notes to get me back on track. 1) Go get a few binders to write down daily trade journals, whether I traded or not, on the general market condition and how I'm looking at it and maybe I'll go back every 6 months and make subsequent notes on whether I was correct or need to adjust how I look at things 2) I'll write down my setups I want to see, SPspider is right on this one and the stupid part is that I knew it before! So I'll write down my setups and adjust them every 30 days or so. 3) Write down my money management style and stick to it, try to make it automatic with alerts at certain price points. Tradewinds, you are definitely correct about my emotions controlling me and the anticipation factor, though I never though of it in the terms of "anticipation" thats exactly what was happening. Also I know for a fact that the Wall St players on the other side of the terminal position the market like this on purpose to take advantage of this psychological weakness of people and I let them play me! Grrr. You are dead on about needing to be comfortable in the uncomfortable, I have been there briefly before and I need to get back there. Wow thanks a lot guys you gave me all I needed and more, great insight. I'll start posting on here more often apparently its a good forum! FYI, I follow IBD and Dan Zanger.

I had a REALLY bad day yesterday, one of those days where it feels like nothing goes right and where things that should go wrong go horribly wrong, one that just pisses you off to no end! Well those days I use as reflective days, I wasn't trading by the way. One of the things I thought of was whether I should trade anymore or quit and just invest in mutual funds. I have made no money from trading and apparently I am addicted to over-trading. I mean really addicted to over-trading. I know this effects many people and Im wondering if anyone has overcome this to successfully trade and make a living or at least grow your Roth IRA? I will always get in too early before a daily trend line break, then out after it crosses a 5 minute level of support, without breaking out. Sometimes during the same day sometimes during the 2-3 days following my entry. Also I seem to move my attention away from the leader stocks while they are "boringly" basing, obviously I know I do this yes it persists. Like everyone on here Im a good stock picker but a horrible trader, I know I am doing this wrong and for some reason I cant get it right! I have no written strategy, I have no written trading log and no money management policy and I understand that all of this goes against good practices, I really just wonder why I cant get it straight! This last go around was with fake money and I said I wasnt going to trade until I took that 50k to 1 million, see how unrealistic that is! I am big on beating myself up and am my own worst critic at the same time I know I am capable of great things, maybe stock trading just isn't one of them? Has anyone gone through something similar?