Ingot54

That sounds like a neat approach, TN. So your breakthrough was to focus MORE on the probability that your entry is aligned with the market as opposed to the usual attempt to isolate the highest probability of the market rising or falling? That is a bit subtle . So as I understand that, you no longer attempt to pick the rises and falls of the market. Instead your focus is on ensuring you are trading WITH the market. I think I "get" this. But can you please clarify further. If I was to apply what you have shared, I would be looking to trade with the most likely TREND of the market, and not simply with a shorter term target. In this case, I would be looking at higher TF as well as signs that an entry was in the direction of the enduring trend? Is that a fair assessment? Thanks Ingot54

Well, no actually - I had not thought myself worthy to write a blog on TL But I will certainly consider that. I am constructing an off-forum type of blog, with a link to Traders Laboratory gratis. It means a lot to me to have found a forum where there is a distinct interest in learning, and I would recommend all my readers to make TL their home too. If TL have a small logo that would link to the site - that would be a welcome addition to my Blog. I have found some (to remain unnamed) forums here and there where bullies abide, with their trolls, and that is decidedly absent here. Well worth preserving this etiquette. Cheers PS - I am a frequent visitor to the Blog section of TL - not sure how popular it is, but for me it is like a visit to the library - you can end up in directions you never intended to go, but glad you did.

Hi Folks Have been on TL for a little while, and recently broke through to small profitability. Since then the breakthroughs have seemed to continue, and I am currently feeling positive about my future as a retail FX trader. I would like to say that I am confident of giving up my day job, but I'm not really, though I have cut back the hours a little now. I love to share what I learn (except my personal trading setup ) and I love to write about trading. Currently working on my blog, which is not quite ready to launch. That won't drag me away from a great forum though - glad I found TL - refreshing good manners here. Always on the lookout for new things in trading, and enjoy the great interaction I am finding on TL. Welcome Mysticforex and The Negotiator, and GlassOnion - I look forward to great discussions with you guys on this forum. Ingot54

Grant, thank you raising this topic. While I did vote that I think meditation/motivation is very important, I would like to know what form of it you advocate. The field varies from the deeply religious, to New Age, to NLP-type preparation and so on. Personally I find it difficult to separate the concept of "trading" from "making money." You mentioned in your opening statement the words "to be successful at it," and these words can only allude to "success" being "money" as opposed to trading for any other reason. I switched to trading for pips at one time, to try not to look at the dollars as the trade moved, but subconsciously I was still doing the calcs and knew exactly what my bottom line was. If not through the money made, how then would you define "success?" I am struggling with this. The best I can do is to think you are pointing to trading for reasons of the higher-self, as opposed to money. Could you mean that each time the trader steps up to the keyboard and screen, he needs to be mentally prepared to just follow his plan, his rules and his commitment with discipline and poise? At this point, I can not see myself doing the Buddhist thing, or the Christian thing, meditating as such prior to trading sessions. The meditation would need to be non-religious, would it not? But motivation material ... that is entirely spot on with me. I strongly believe in motivation - indeed I have even posted (on TL threads) a couple of Youtube links to recorded clips of the late, great Jim Rohn, and I derive great motivation and inspiration from those, to approach my trading with greater alacrity and commitment. I would be pleased if you too, at a later time in this thread perhaps, are able to share something of your personal technique, and even some of the meditational or motivational (they are different) material that you use. Thank you for the thread - an outstanding topic and one that should be essential for traders completing "Trading for Success 101." While I am unable to share more in this area, I remain open to learn and develop my mental capacity to function at a higher level with my trading. EDIT: Can I add to an already-long post ... and just say that I can envisage using trading for higher purposes - eg family support, as opposed to the base need to possess money as such. That view, I am comfortable with.

Welcome to the right place, Jeremy. Make sure you are asking the right questions from this point forward. Why do you want to trade? This is the question you have to not only ask yourself ... you have to provide yourself with such a brutally honest answer that it is crystal clear, and ever before your eyes. What are your goals? Again - without a goal, you can't have a plan. And without a plan, you are consigning yourself to the most miserable 6 years you will ever experience in life ... opinion only. What is your Personality Profile for trading? In other words, are you suited to trading fast-moving instruments intra-day or do you prefer the stability of trending price? Do you prefer the Technical or the Fundamental information when making decisions? What is your Risk Profile? When you understand that, you will better understand whether trading really is for you at all. Or whether you are better suited to investing, than the instability of the trading voyage. Can you handle seeing 30% of your profits draw down, before bouncing back into profit? Or are you comfortable with a steady 5% improvement in the bottom line? Almost every trading forum on the Internet has received thousands of posts just like yours. And yes, it is a humble and inquiring post, simply asking for guidance. Tams has said: and he does not say that without very good reason. We are told that up to 95% of beginning traders will be out of the markets without their money within 12 months. Now I am unsure about that, but I do know that after 12 months I had blown up my first $15k account. I would have taken Tams advice at that point, had I been able to read it then :crap: The point is - in all seriousness - that you have to examine whether this is a road you really want to go down. The people who are warning you to reconsider, are not unintelligent or nasty. They simply understand from rugged experience exactly the journey that is ahead of you. The markets WILL humble even the most intelligent participant - remember Longterm Capital Management? Long-Term Capital Management Try to read it in full to get a picture of what lies ahead for the invincible trader. My personal advice is to investigate, but not commit without getting more information about these things. I applaud your enterprise, however, Jeremy, and that in itself places you ahead of many wannabe's who never get past the dream of improving their lot. The best information I can give you right now, is to answer the above questions, and then seek along the lines of the answers. Meanwhile, please ask Tams for his "long answer" - he is notoriously terse, and has to be drawn a little to give his best response. I suppose as a successful trader, I would expect his advice would still be valid and valuable to you at the end of the next 6 years. PS - don't accept his next answer - which I expect will be to repeat simply his first one!!! Work on him a little

Hi Charles You are in a wonderful position. Here's why. When many traders started out around 5 to 10 years ago, the market support systems were poorly developed, and any forums that were around were offering views and ideas that the traders of the day submitted from their personal experiences. The other things that happened on forums were: 1) Pump and Dump posts by "experts" and their cohorts were rife, and misled and fleeced many beginning traders by this deceptive trick 2) There simply was not enough information available to advise traders correctly. Chat rooms and forums were actually not good places for beginner traders to inhabit if they wanted to both keep their capital and advance as traders. Trading books were still being written, although many of the enduring authors already had their stuff out there, if you knew then what "good stuff" really was. As well as that, we now know about things like "Analysis Paralysis", Over-trading, Money Management and Position Sizing, Risk and Reward estimates, Adequate Capitalisation, Trading and Business Planning, and now a new concept has been introduced to me in another thread, by FXGirl, which she called her "Emotional Plan" ... I like that concept. So the forums of today have moved forwards, and are really beginning to be a help to the trader. It is possible to pick up in probably weeks, these same things that took many more experienced traders months and years. It remains though, that nothing surpasses screen time to deliver that vital experience, and perhaps in your trading spare time, you might consider spending more time simply following market price, and try to understand the patterns and reasons for the activity. Many traders spend a lot of time doing just this. Data services have proliferated and become affordable or even free, and Trading Platforms have evolved to accommodate the best Indicators (and even whole systems) and include back-testing functions and fully customisable features. Even these things have not made much of a dent in the perception that "95% of traders fail" or leave the market within a year. I find it a very good thing that you asked 'how do traders stay busy for 40 hours" and that you say that you've "... learned not to trade too many instruments at once and that its best to stick to one product (for awhile)." Right there you have placed yourself in a bracket of traders with a very much higher chance of success. I say that because it seems that you are very focused. That single word - focus - is what many early traders like myself missed, and in my case, I have moved from following Equities, CFD's, Indices, Metals, Energy, to Forex. And I have tried all the whiz-bang Moving Averages, Indicators and Systems, Strategies and Time Frames. Only thing I won't try is Robots - I like to participate I have not included the important aspects of the Psychology of Trade Management, the Psychology of the Trader, and Self-Improvement in general. The emotions of Fear and Greed have a profound influence on the longevity of traders, and the idea of dealing with these emotions, and placing them under control in trading, can not be over-estimated. One of the things all traders should do at the beginning of their trading careers, is to do a Personality Profile Test to uncover which Instruments and Time Frames are best suited to the natural nature of the trader. Then a Risk Profile should be performed to assist with guiding the best of the traits discovered in the Personality Profile. Why scalp in the 1 minute time frame, if your personality and risk profiles are pointing to trading the 4 hour or End of Day charts? These are things that consume a lot of my time - or did in the past. I have long known that I do better in the 4H and 8H time frames, and that I need to ground those trading decisions in what the Daily and Weekly trends are doing. I don't cope with the stress of scalping too well. So these are all research-based things that I have spent countless hours on, and I would imagine many traders would put that in their own testimonials. Today, I have come full circle, and I am now focused. I use a few indicators and moving averages - yes I do - because that identifies for me what I need to be seeing before I take my slice out of the trend. That's just me. I am relaxed with that. And I do spend a bit of time with Price Action learning and Candlestick Patterns. Is that knowledge going to help me move ahead? I have to say yes, I believe the knowledge I am still gaining WILL be of benefit, as long as it does not cause yet another detour, and derail me from my current path So I think it is truly great that you are, as a beginning trader, looking for ways to fill those hours while trading, or waiting. It is very easy for an experienced trader to be patronising of beginners - I hope I am not like that ... so can I ask for a little more information please? How long do you look at the market you trade before deciding to take your entry? How long are you in your trades? Do you have profit targets, or do you take what is available during one session and leave it at that for the day? I am interested in these things for a reason - to find out how it is that a new trader is not stuck to the screen all day trying to cram his head full of information and ideas to scrape that last dollar from the market. I find that very refreshing and interesting, that a beginner is not drawn into the analysis whirlpool like many of us were in our own early days. It is refreshing and something of a breakthrough for me to see that is it possible for someone to enter the world of trading, and already have discovered one of the single most important qualities that many of us lacked in the early part of our own trading learning. Thank you for your question. Now - just to help you with how my own day is filled: I have my wife and one of my sons at home, and we work together on other projects, apart from my trading. I sleep in a little late (10am sometimes) because I am frequently watching currency screens until 2am, without actually taking trades. I read newsletters and contribute to a forum or two, though lately I don't wander far from TL unless for research purposes (eg Forex Factory). And I am doing as much self-reconstruction as I can, mentally, emotionally and physically. In the evenings I walk for 30 minutes, and every second afternoon I jog/walk/jog/walk with my son for about 90 minutes as a form of recreation and outlet from everything else. You have sparked an interesting point, Charles - why is it that we spend so much time at the computer participating in "trading activities" when we actually only trade for a short time? It is ironic that the reason many of us became interested in trading to begin with, was to give ourselves a better quality of life, or better chance at financial independence. Yet the whole process has become, for many, a form of slavery, that denies us our physical health, our relationships and enjoyment of the many other things that life offers us outside of the house/office. The passion can become an obsession, and the difference is subtle.

Thank you FXGirl. I think you are saying that by naming that fear - or those fears, you are actually recognising their presence, and de-fusing them. Hearing yourself acknowledge them right out loud, somehow limits their influence. And somehow identifies which of the fears are just the little girl's voice in your head, and which are the true warnings of the market. Establishing awareness can be so settling, because it restores perspective between the real and the imagined. Is that correct? I am not trained in Psychology, but I AM a parent, and I recognise the things that make a difference when encouraging a child, and I know the things that help a child decide for himself what is just an imagination. As you mentioned - calming yourself has to be attended first. Then you can take on board the market information, and deal with that. That is a great description of using a self-help method to make a difference - thank you.

Thank you for your kind contribution Jackhammer. I just Googled "Children of the Great Depression" and watched a couple of the YouTube videos that came up. They were too emotional to include here, but certainly worth a few minutes to catch up on that stuff. I was born in 1950. We lived on a dairy farm that supplied cream to the local butter factory. My father had come home from New Guinea (WW2) and had annual bouts of Malaria until I was 8 yrs old, and later, the nightmares that came with depression and war neurosis. As children we lived with that, though Mum tried to shelter us from as much of it as she could. I rode a horse to school until I was 8 yrs old, and we used horses to plough the ground up until 1958. My father then was able to borrow one of his brothers' tractors to make the preparation easier, though he still used the horses to scuffle the weeds until 1960. The block we farmed didn't get much rain, and the few pigs and cows we ran, plus the hit-and-miss cropping results, didn't do much for parents with 5 kids. Included that to show that I grew up with the typical poverty mentality. Those kinds of memories taught me that is was wrong to try to get anything from anyone for yourself. Everyone shared what they could, and we looked on wealthy people as "lucky b's" and saw ourselves as undeserving of wealth. Only sweat and hard work brought money - "everyone knew that." It was not good to be one of "the wealthy" because they didn't share, though we did see them in Church on Sundays, so obviously they thought God liked the way they dealt He probably did like the way they dealt ... must ask one day! Contrast that with the Gen X/Y today, and you can easily see the over-compensation my generation makes to ensure they don't go without things. Like our generation did. But let's get off that trip. The point is that we bring what we are to trading, and the market then either brings US to conform to the kind of thinking that is required to successfully participate, or it spits us out. Same with the rather spoiled Gen X/Y ... they either conform to the market, and give up their entitled attitude, or they too get spat out. On the one hand we have a group who hardly believe they are worthy of what the market can deliver; and on the other hand, we have a group that believes they are entitled - that the market owes them success just because they participate. (Might be a bit unkind to both groups here, but the contrast is made.) The market deals with us as we are on the day. It is up to us to learn to accept the market as always right, and that it is we who have to understand and be ready to take only what the market offers. We can not force the market to deliver more than it wants on a given day. And we can not get what is available without doing the required preparation. So both groups have some big things to get over, or in a year they will be on the sidelines. Fortunately for me, as a kid I developed an entrepreneurial streak, selling empty bottles to shopkeepers, and selling clean and rolled-up newsprint to the butchers. Later I got a job before school, rolling newspapers for delivery, and even later, jobs in the school holidays chipping weeds from crops. No one really cares about that - we all had our stuff to get over - but I include it here, because those experiences laid some groundwork for me, which I was later able to carry on into trading. That, specifically was, that I CAN succeed, regardless of the impost. But only I can push through - no one is going to hand it to me on a plate. You have to go after it. Even so, I didn't get a decent breakthrough until I hit the bottom hard enough to decide I have had enough. In that sense, I MADE my own breakthrough. It was not enough to participate, to make fancy charts, to trade Forex CFD's, leveraged inappropriately and very poorly position-sized. I was forced to recognise that while I may have learned heaps - I had failed to learn to prepare myself to really trade competently. No one else's fault. Once again the stories have run on a bit - in my usual long-winded way. But you may see something of yourself here - in that you too have learned that YOU CAN change. You CAN become the trader you aspire to be. But YOU have to do what it takes YOURSELF. Open your eyes - look at what you are doing, and respond. I might at times think, that the damaged childhood I may (or may not) have had, led to some of the problems I had, with how I perceive the markets. But life IS fair, and along with that, I think I have shown you that life also delivered to me the skills I needed to compensate for some of the "damage." And I believe that life has also equipped all of us with those kinds of survival skills - the drive to persevere; to search and learn; to overcome and break through; to unlock the doors and experience the taste of gaining the right to take those small steps forward that we can like to label as "success"; and above all - to behave with consistency and discipline in our approach to trading. Instead of diving into the hottest or most popular book or course on Psychological Repair for Dummy Traders, why not simply learn to reflect. Try sitting down with computer turned off, and with no distractions, and quietly take your time to reflect on what you are doing. Visualise goals and begin to believe that you WILL attain them. That little exercise in itself will do NOTHING for your immediate trading. But I am convinced that it WILL be the beginning of a subconscious kind of analysis that will eventually become the instinct, or gut feeling kind of action, that will lead to fewer errors, and more correct trading - all else being equal. There is a place for meditation and self-talk - but keep it in perspective - it is not a panacaea for poor technique. Anyway - we'll leave that form of self help right there, and if you will indulge, let's listen in for 6 or 7 minutes to Jim Rohn's different slant on self-help. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2AyudSJl_s&feature=related]YouTube - Jim Rohn - How to have Your Best Year Ever 2 of 3[/ame]

Thank you for the compliment MM. We may have had our different opinions on another thread, but I have to say that I generally respect your posts, and insights. I have to say that I didn't commence the thread for my own trading needs, but to create a resource that all traders are welcome to contribute to, in order to share our stories of breakthroughs and insights that led to changes in our thinking, and ultimately success. The anecdotes and analogies we share are what is far more meaningful to each other than much of what one can derive from a text, though these have a place to be sure. While I am generally free of the paralysing fear I once had, courtesy of blowing up accounts - I still am not at the place I want to be. I can not give up my main employment and rely on my trading income. All it will take now is for me to gradually increase my position size as my trading a/c grows. But I don't want to ignore the voice of sobriety on my shoulder either, that reminds me of how I blew up before. The difference is subtle. I have to say that I am a rebel by nature. It does not come out in the form of aggression, but in unorthodoxy. Just as you can not be unorthodox in driving a vehicle in traffic, so you have to abide by basic principles in trading - money management, position sizing - following a written strategy and so on. For me, what made the difference was that I simply got fed up. I became sick and tired of not making my trading pay. I became so aggrieved with myself, that I decided "enough!" I now abide by a written plan. I do this to avoid the subconscious desire to follow my personal bias of where the market is going. If the box is not checked on my list, then the trade does not happen - regardless of how juicy it may appear. And I no longer risk 10% to 15% of my account on one trade - it is from 2% to 4% maximum - that is my rule, and that settles that! In short - my unorthodox approach - my rebellious nature - has been brought to heel by the market. Anyway - as I tend to be long winded, I will close by sharing with you a video that describes EXACTLY what I felt the day I made the decision to do something about my trading. In this video, the late wonderful Jim Rohn tells the story of people who had a wake-up call on "The Day That Turns Your Life Around." I would like to highlight the first 122 seconds of this video as being particularly relevant to my situation - at least as far as the decision went. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoW_jAzZKcs&feature=related]YouTube - The Day That Turns Your Life Around (Jim Rohn)[/ame]

Most traders would agree that Psychology plays a fairly large part in how successfully they are able to approach and manage trades, and trading. If your parents were children in the years 1920 to 1940 then you will have your own set of mental demons to deal with concerning poverty, waste, being wealthy, austerity, being deserving of wealth and so on. We all have baggage left over from well-meaning parents - particularly if our parents went through the Great Depression, whether as children or adults - does not matter! So let's see what we can do to help ourselves, in a cost-effective way. You won't have to purchase any books, and you won't have to visit the shrink. In fact, there is a great deal you can do to help yourself. In this thread we can take a look at some basic truths about what we do, and what we can do about it. Last time I looked, the professionals were charging $175 per hour for an assessment consult, then up to 10 follow-up sessions. Courses to effect these same changes were priced between $3,000 to $7,000 and the job was not finished then. To cover any possible failure of the client to "break through", the consultants running the courses are giving up to 15 personal consults, free access to Live Trading Rooms, 15 DVD's "that can be watched in the comfort of your own home" and possibly a forum to discuss issues that were not dealt with in the 15 DVD's and the Course, and Trading Room, and of course the text-book, course notes and "frequently asked questions." Look, let's face it - none of us are mad ... unless we are still bamboozled at the end of a $7,000 course - and only then for possibly taking such a course in the first place. But there are MANY ways we can stop ourselves from getting into a fear-based bind in the first place - or if we have some residual fear, left over from too many blown-up accounts, then there are still inexpensive ways to deal with those. I am NOT psychologically qualified to offer advice - so please don't accept advice in this thread as being authentic expert therapy. Might I respectfully request any professionally qualified psychologist refrain from contributing in a professional capacity here. This is an attempt at self-help, and I hope members will not use it as a dumping ground for Mark Douglas stuff, Van K. Tharpe stuff, Brett Steenbarger stuff or any other famous trading name. We want this thread to be mainly contributions from ourselves - what works or worked, for us. We can read the books for ourselves. We can take the courses and join the newsletters and forums. But we can not get into each others heads that way. Yet every one of us has grown over the time we have been trading, or overcome a mental obstacle and here is an opportunity to simply share "how" you did that. You may have read a book - good - so how did you actually apply that learning? Where did the rubber really hit the road? To me, this would be an intelligent use of a trading forum. So, can we begin with a light-hearted approach, led by our dear friend Bob Newheart, and later move on to some less serious approaches to this ingrained, but not-indelible problem of psychological issues in trading? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1g3ENYxg9k]YouTube - Bob Newhart-Stop It!![/ame]

Sorry Roberto, I have given the wrong impression. :doh: No, as far as I know there is no way BB can achieve anything like that. It is strictly hands-on only. But I think it may be possible to set it to record for a set time period and then stop. I didn't get to far into the capabilities of the free version - I just wanted to record what I was watching, and then stopped it. I did get up at 1am and again at 4am to stop and restart the recordings, to coincide with the advertised times of the presenters. Had I not intervened, the recording would have probably run until the memory was full (whatever level that is). I mentioned that at the end of the 160 hr marathon trading gig, I was frazzled! I was seriously sleep-deprived, but I did get a valuable record of how these traders think, and what the setups are that they look for. FOOTNOTE: After all the trouble and personal fatigue I endured, I do not use the FxBoot Camp methods ... I found that I made much more headway using Daily Pivot Points and a couple of strategic Moving Averages, and a decent customised MACD setting. So the effort to record 160 hours of someone else's trading did not particularly create an enduring method of trading for me, and I don't really recommend Boot Camp personally. It is a very expensive way to fail! But I did gain insight into the benefits of using a recording device to monitor trading activity. :missy:

I would simply ask my wife to do it - she's a multi-tasking whiz! In all seriousness, I can't answer that. Does Camtasia offer this? I do know that if I left the BB Flashback recording run, it would continue until the Webinar ceased, and then leave a box asking for me to save. When I returned I could do the saving and exiting. Problem is, I would need to be present to set it up exactly to frame the Webinar screen initially. These things have a habit of popping up in different sections of the screen, and the 'camera' may not be positioned to capture the screen correctly. Another option is the Remote Desktop Control software: Remote Desktop Control software to access remote PC via computer network or Internet But circumstance might dictate the feasibility of this. Do you have another suggestion?

There are some professionals who choose Camstudio above Camtasia, and it may surprise that the reason has little to do with being paid or free. I was certainly surprised by that: Camtasia or Camstudio? Look for posts by Josh Anderson - #24 onwards. That fellow is knowledgable and professional - this is his bread and butter, and he has a very strong business. Personally I searched the Internet for screen recording software to record the Boot Camp Marathon trading Webinar a few months back (the Wayne McDonell NFP people). I had used Camstudio previously, and was about to use it again, when I remembered how useless the support forum was when I really needed some serious answers to get Camstudio going. Remember, the CS software is free to use, and they say the Forum is conducted only as a service ... it is not meant to operate like "Customer Support". So I kept looking and came across this from Blueberry software: Free screen recorder - BB FlashBack Express There are enough tips and support to get you started, and the screen-sizing is drag-n-drop to the section or area you want to film. Also there are options to record different file sizes. I think the free version only records in SWF(?) from memory, but files can be converted to AVI and Flash ... don't quote me - I may have this stuff mixed up. I do know that you can set the number of frames per second, and they make recommendations. After doing a couple of test recordings, and checking the quality against the files sizes, I found that the most economical settings size-of-file-wise, gave perfect imaging on playback, and the sound was perfectly synchronised. I created one file of 360MB, but most of the 56 recorded sessions were from 40MB upwards. I saved them onto a Seagate 1TB external HDD, and I have no problems playing them back for my own use. (I paid to attend the Webinar - so I felt I didn't want to lose the intellectual teaching I had received). All up I think I was able to record over 160 hours flawlessly. I had to set the alarm clock to get the change of sessions, because the Webinar stopped when presenters changed chairs, and was a bit frazzled by the end of the week. I do have a valuable resource now, and no longer have to pay to attend a Boot Camp screening. The playback is like I am looking at the original presentation, for quality. I would recommend BB over Camstudio. Downside: BB free version expires after a month, but the paid version is much less expensive than Camtasia, and beautiful quality. Pricing: 1) Free version 2) Standard Edition $89 3) Professional Edition $199 4) Other offers I have no interest in this company - I make the recommendation as a previous happy user. But I think every trader should be using some kind of screen capture software to record what they did during a trade, for later feedback. The mind lets us believe what we would like to believe, but you can't fool the camera!!

In 2005 I switched from trading equities through a bank, to trading them as CFD's through a broker who offered a Guaranteed Stop Loss Order. I was still very inexperienced in the markets. I had no understanding how a GENERAL market correction could affect even "good" stocks. I started with $15,000 mid August 2005 ... pretty much in the heady middle days of the bull run up to the 2007 plateau. My favourite stock was Zinifex (now merged) and I bought them as CFD's for $2.05 on 5% margin deposit. This meant that a market correction of just 5% would see my stop loss orders triggered, and because I was dealing with CFD's, I would lose only the margin. With ordinary stock purchases, you just take a 5% loss, and get the remaining capital returned, less brokerage. Anyway, in the next few weeks, Zinifex ran up to about $2.90 or more, and I just kept removing equity, and re-investing in more CFD's, and moving the stops higher, to maintain the minimum margin. By early October, my $15k a/c had grown to $25k ... on paper. I "owned" thousands of CFD's - over 13,000 Zinifex, and about 6 other "good" stocks, in a total of 27 positions! There were limits on each position - it was not allowed to own more than 3,000 stocks in one position, but that didn't bother me. I could do no wrong. I had no idea what was to come - I had no idea that places like Bloomberg, or news services existed. On the morning of 5th October 2005, I could see that the market was about to open well below the close of the day before. I had no idea what to do - I had never experienced a correction in any form before. Within 5 minutes of the opening, I was flattened. I had witnessed all my stock CFD's close one by one, like lights blinking off, as the stops were hit. I rang the broker to close everything, but they said ... you have to give us a price you want them closed at. Of course with 27 open positions, it was an impossibility, and even to close ONE position electronically, it took about 60 seconds. The platform was jamming, and access to the broker was impossible through the platform. I ended up closing about 4 positions, and the rest were gone. My positions remaining were worth $8k ... a loss of $17k in about 10 minutes. All I could do was think about how to get back the money. I put the balance back into my "good" Zinifex positions, and thought about rebuilding. It did not occur to me that there might be TWO corrective days in a row. The next morning, the scenario was repeated, but this time I was left with about $300. To say I was in shock would understate my mental condition. I was unable to think, or even cry. It was unspeakable. My wife asked: "Aren't you trading?" because the computer was turned off. The hardest part was explaining that I had lost everything, and that I really didn't have a clue how it had happened. It was 4 months before I had the courage to retry trading, but it was never the same. My (false) courage, acquired from the roaring days of the bull markets, never fully returned. The way to avoid this crisis, would have been to maintain at least a 25% margin ... and preferably more. But it was always going to happen, because all traders need to experience all market conditions before they realise that money management is an extremely important part of trading - regardless of what you trade. And I was not only hopelessly over-leveraged, I was loaded with too many positions, with no way of rapid liquidation in a crisis. 27 positions would have taken at least 30 minutes to close, under optimum conditions (with the technology in use at that time) ... entirely hopeless when platforms are jamming, or the phones are jammed with traders screaming at their brokers to sell. But I doubt I would have heeded any advice before the event - I didn't appreciate that it would be impossible to close the positions in an instant ... or that the market correction would hit so savagely at the opening bell. The index was already down 2%, and by the end of the first day it had plunged about 8%, from memory. By the end of the second day, the market had corrected by around 12%. I have had two other fairly major loss events, but nothing like that. I have more recently lost amounts of $3,000 through rapid spikes in price, which I believe was electronic triggering of stop-loss orders. This does not occur as frequently as it did then, but the recent "flash-crash" on May 6th 2010 was, I believe, an orchestrated electronic event. The triggering of stops was designed to plunge prices, with contingent buy orders strategically placed to take advantage of the sell-off. Within ten minutes, millions of stocks had changed hands, and at the end of the day, prices were pretty much as they had been before the event. Convenient. The work of predators? The work of the Government Plunge Protection team getting themselves cashed up? Never! This was probably a criminally driven event by a broker with deep pockets - possibly one of the bigger Investment banks or brokers. It would be interesting to track ownership of the stocks that changed hands! But of course, the public have to have confidence in the markets, and so this kind of information is never released. The thing is - you have to be prepared ... there is no such thing as a white crow, is there? But could you ever see one! For more reading on what can and did happen, read here ... The Truth and the Periphery: Flash Crash: Why a Raven is Like a Writing Desk

Hi Max There are a couple of ways around this problem. If you are happy with your current MT4 platform, you could try always keeping a trade open. This can be done with minimal impact on your balances, by opening a long AND a short position on GOLD simultaneously. Wait for a time when the price of gold is not ticking up or down frequently, so as to be long and short at about the exact same quote. You will have swap accumulating, but the nett change in the price of gold will always be zero, so your trade balances will not be affected by movement in Gold. The other thing you could do, is go to: MetaTrader 4 Trading Platform / MetaQuotes Software Corp. and download their MT4 platform from the home site. It is generic, which means it is not tied to any specific broker. I do not know if it expires or not - I don't think so, but it might. Email them. The downside is that they may not provide the range of instruments available from Commercial brokers using MT4. I use a few platforms, because of various templates and profiles I have previously used, and am loathe to dump them. https://www.fxpro.com/ is one that I'm certain does not expire - can't remember having to open a new account or password with them. I just checked - my current FxPro demo a/c has been unchanged since 15th July 2010 ... so that one does not expire. FXCM expires after 60 days - I just got that from FXCM support. Did you realise that after your platform expires, you can simply go to the top toolbar, and go to: < FILE <OPEN AN ACCOUNT and enter the details, or check the current ones are already recorded correctly. The platform will automatically re-install, using a new PW and Platform number. All charts and templates/experts will be restored. This way you do not lose any of your custom indicators/expert advisors/templates. They are automatically retained and reloaded - the only thing that changes is the Platform number and your log-in password. If you forget them don't worry - the latest platform number and password is recorded in the "Mailbox" seen on the bottom toolbar when you have the "Terminal" window open (also found on the top toolbar). Probably preaching to the choir here - so ignore this stuff if you already understand it.

Thank you Stephen. I am pleased to see someone speak up and come out in favour of Tradeguider as a platform. I do not think the arguments against it are very strong. The main thing I am hearing from experienced traders is that: a) It is expensive for what it is/does/achieves for the user (ca $3,000 has been stated) b) The packaging of the indicators is excessive and complicates the simple, to somehow justify the price c) Other platforms (eg NinjaTrader,Tradestation) can perform better/as good for free, or for a fraction of the cost. I would be keen to hear your views on these points, since you are an active user of Tradeguider, and are au courant with their add-ons and product accessories. Particularly I would be keen to understand the disadvantage suffered by users of the standard MT4 platform, when the VSA (custom) indicators are used, as opposed to the streamlined Tradeguider platform. Of interest would not be so much the ease of use (obviously a big plus) but the end result. Can MT4 be expected to achieve the same results as Tradeguider, NinjaTrader or Tradestation, regardless of the bells and whistles? Sometimes a little expense can be justified. Is that so in this case? Apologies for paraphrasing your quote.

Thanks for clarifying - I took it to mean "don't worry about true volume - just get on and trade with the tick volume supplied". Either way I have been placing far too much emphasis on trying to trade (using VSA) as a purist, when it is never going to happen. Without true volume, we have to accept the next best thing (best for whom?) The only way for me to know, will be to have a go at it. If it doesn't work, then the knowledge gained will certainly not be a burden. The more I read the two .pdf files generously supplied in the sticky section, the more I see that there are some brilliant concepts that can still be applied, regardless of the presence of volume data or not. While I have uncovered the data providers who may have the most accurate data (eSignal looks like being ahead of the rest) I am coming around to the view that it really doesn't matter all that much in the spot market. Thanks for your input Blowfish - appreciated - and helps me to see the bigger picture.

Au contraire, Kuokam, Vous etes prêt! Your story reflects the that of a person who is truly searching for answers. And let me assure you, breakthroughs in trading do not come while sitting on your hands staring at the screen day after day, doing the same things that failed you last week, and the week before. The late Jim Rohn was attributed with the saying: "When you know want you want, and you want it badly enough, you will find a way to get it" There are other things worthy of consideration in trading mate-ship: 1) You may have an advantage in being unable to find someone "locally' to work with and bounce ideas off. Trading is an intense vocation - but it is not ALL of life. Even a trading buddy needs his space and the opportunity to pursue his own private interests. Having even a close friend nearby for too often, can damage your welcome at times. That is probably why chatting on Skype works so well for me. I don't feel compelled to report every little detail of what I am doing - and vice versa. Quite often we log on, say "hi" and then pursue our own thing for an hour. The only thing that might interrupt the solace, is a quick 'heads-up' if there is a nice trade setting up. Later of course there is a bit of banter and dissection of trades, and an exchange of ideas too. 2) You have to be constantly researching and bringing new ideas to the relationship. Keeping in mind that the buddy thing was born out of trading, and it could die from lack of oxygen, if the refreshing breezes of new ideas don't occasionally blow. Any relationship will stagnate if not stimulated, and trading buddies suffer from it too. 3) Never forget to keep working on yourself and you trading psychology. Sometimes this kind of personal growth is a very useful topic, but it will always remain personal. The subject is usually best treated with a trading coach/mentor, but the joys of the breakthroughs are free to be shared. Sharing your breakthrough stimulates your friend to also recognise the benefit of self-work too, and keeps the relationship growing. There are other opinions on this, and these are just a couple of mine. I could suggest a starting place might be a quality forum such as this - read as much as you are able, and then become involved in asking and contributing. You might then discover that you have been helped more than usual by one particular person, and that you are also on good terms via private message. As I mentioned earlier, to have friends (mates) you have to show yourself to be friendly (by BEING a mate). Friends are helpful, but can be tough on us - much like family, who know all about us, but still like us anyway! Those are all good things to do, Kuokam. It may be that you will find your niche by focusing more on one specific area. There are many excellent traders who are extremely good at trading the news. I can not do this well, but there are times that trades just pop out at you from the screen. You may have noticed the activity in the USDCAD on Friday 21st January. After the data release, the pair fell 50 pips steadily, over the period of 30 minutes. It was not a violent correction, and entirely tradeable. I watched the move, but became distracted domestically, and missed an entry. You mentioned that you have rules, and that you do not record all your trades - even though you admit it is "such an easy thing". Having your rules written down is one of the best things you can do. It prevents a subconscious bias from hijacking your strategy. The mind is very good at convincing us that we have kept all our rules, when we have an opinion of the trade direction. But unless we actually go down the list of our rules and actually CHECK EVERY BOX, we won't see that an error has been made. The reason for writing down your trades is so that you can identify recurring errors you are making. Without such records, it is impossible for you or anyone else to look over your trades, and identify the places you keep getting it wrong. And you don't have an opportunity to consolidate the things that went right either We are very fortunate to have Rande Howell contributing regularly to our Psychology threads Trading Psychology - Traders Laboratory - Professional Traders Community as well as in his own Blog on this site Traders Laboratory - Professional Traders Community - Blogs The Blog section of Traders Laboratory is probably the single most under-viewed section of the site, yet it may contain thousands of the seeds that can boost your trading performance if planted in the right 'ground' at the right time. It may be worth trawling through the Blogs - who knows, you may be able to strike up a relationship with some of the very best traders around - no one else is talking to Bloggers. Here's another thought for you mate: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VePAtOFboE]YouTube - Jim Rohn[/ame]

Thanks Blowfish. This does seem to place traders of spot Forex at a disadvantage (when compared to equities and futures traders and others) if we are to apply the concept of volume across the whole trading spectrum. Whether that disadvantage is small and insignificant, or large enough to derange the concepts applied in VSA, will depend on how accurate the trader needs the analysis to be. Given that the Foreign Exchange market has arguably the largest liquidity of all the traded instruments, it is odd that we do accept without question or argument, that statement without measurable proof - the proof that goes with accurate volume data to back up the claims of liquidity. We take that liquidity for granted, yet have no idea of its verity. An examination of the operation of the MT4 (and other bucket-shop) brokers (eg or IG Index) does therefore seem to support the notion that if they are not personally taking the opposite side of the positions placed by traders, then they are passing those trades directly into the markets from which they derive their spreads. Thus, tracking the fate of trades "should" lead to a larger and more liquid entity on the derivative side of the Forex market, since the Spot Forex market is only a mirror of the true Interbank quote. One wonders whether large dealers like Dukascopy could report volume, and whether other similarly large dealers could be asked to provide volume collectively, to create an industry standard. Such a feat should be able to be accomplished, in this computer age. Given that traders may trade with Retail brokers, or through their banks as perhaps Institutions do (or more directly as perhaps countries do through the Interbank if you have big enough accounts) it is intriguing that the Retail Forex Industry has been able to proceed as it does for so long, operating on artificial volume. I suspect a degree of accountability is missing somewhere in all of this, if the retail side of the market is so poorly monitored. But small fish are not going to make any inroads into the operations of sharks! What I hear you saying is that traders should get on and trade VSA in Retail Forex as if the platform volume offered by the brokers is the real thing. And that not accepting this data places traders at risk of missing out on the wider benefits of using VSA - eg in taking the concepts of price action to higher levels. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I think it is OK - even preferable - to do as you suggest and just get over it and get on with it. Indeed there are folks who are managing to do just this with Forex, and with great success: vsa with Malcolm @ Forex Factory Finally, I made an inquiry to NinjaTrader about how they derive volume for their platforms. They responded with this, in about 4 hours (not bad for a Sunday night query/response turnaround): I was pleased with the speed (and thus the respect) with which the response came, but predictably, there is nothing new there. The onus is on the trader to select a data stream that is regarded as "good enough" and get on with trading. But does a trader using an MT4 broker have any disadvantage (when using VSA ) compared to a trader who is using Dukascopy? I think that would have to be affirmative, and it is exactly this anomaly that I am attempting to address. The sheer volume of business transacted by Dukascopy would possibly dwarf my local Australian MT4 broker. And this creates the anomaly. And it brings me back to my original question: And it raises other questions: Are the 'professionals' using volume? Are they collectively responsible for this volume? Or do they simply operate at certain levels, with an opinion of where they think the market is going? If 'they' have no better access to volume figures, then they must be operating on price. What is their alternative? Does this tilting of the playing field disadvantage the retail trader? My discovery and reading about VSA over only the past 36 hours, has raised more questions than I have been able to find answers for. Am I being too anal about this? Does the lack of true volume, or even consistency between data suppliers make any difference to the potential outcome of trading Forex on retail platforms? Perhaps I should simplify my life and simply stick with a couple of moving average crossovers! Or move to trading the ES where such issues do not exist.

First of all a big thank-you to those who have gone before, in these VSA threads. Your legacy is the enlightenment and education of traders who now no longer need to be fodder for those market participants we call "professionals". As a raw beginner (in VSA studies) I am already persuaded, and it remains for me to continue to apprise myself of all available knowledge, and bring myself to competitive and professional competence in the practice of VSA in trading. My chosen instrument is the Foreign Exchange market, traded through Retail Brokers littering the industry, relieving the unwary of their trading accounts before they even knew what happened. Just when I began to master the techniques developed for succeeding in making regular and profitable headway, along comes VSA into my life, and my approach has been turned on its head in one day. I am heavily into studying the sticky threads in this genre, and am almost saturated with information overload. But I can't put it down. A few things are emerging: 1) Reliable and accurate volume data is NOT readily available to clients of MT4 brokers 2) MT4 platforms do NOT provide useful (inbuilt) indicators that specifically deal with VSA analysis 3) The limited resources available to Retail Forex Traders come at a price - comparative value of which has not been established. In simple language, few brokers provide the tools and data to retail forex traders. And of those that do, it not clear whether there is true value in their offerings or not. This seems to be an area that remains undeveloped, when compared, for example, to the equities and other markets (S&P500, and futures, eMinis etc). There seems to be a couple of reasons for this: 1) Retail Spot Forex is a derived market, and each broker usually only has, or reveals, the volume that is traded through their dealership. 2) Popular platforms (specifically MT4) are unequipped to handle "plug-in" applications such as volume data from reliable feed sources, and even less equipped with the software required to turn this data into meaningful and tradeable signals 3) There is so far no competition, or at best, negligible competition within the Retail Forex industry that would be needed to drive change and increasing quality of VSA information While the general markets (for which accurate volume data is available) are well catered for, little is known about volume - true volume - within the Foreign Exchange markets - either Interbank or Retail brokers who only reflect price. Indeed, far more emphasis is being placed on reducing spread and commissions, than is being placed on bringing all the market data into the ring for all to see, use and benefit from. Can anyone provide information that will relieve me from my concerns in these areas: 1) Data suppliers that offer reasonably accurate Volume data (eSignal and IBFx have been mentioned) 2) Trading Platforms that are more or less dedicated to at least catering for Retail Forex trading as one of the instruments they offer 3) Software that can utilise retail Forex Data from a dependable volume sorce, once discovered. I understand the difficulties data suppliers face in this area - Interbank participants are not required to report volume data for three months - by which time it is far too old to be worth considering in current trading decisions, by any but the longest term traders. But there has to be some growth happening in this area. I suggest that the first broker to secure reasonable volume data would stand head-and-shoulders taller than the industry norm, where Forex trading is concerned at spot level. I would be keen to learn from any traders who are successfully able to apply VSA to the Retail Forex market. If this is not available to the retail trader, then can it be assumed that it is also unavailable to the 'professionals'? If indeed we are on a level playing field, where volume data is concerned, should we not learn how the 'professionals' are coping also? After all, if they are supplying the volume to the market that we buy and sell (as our counter-parties), how are they doing it?

Hi Kuokam Who knows how things work. I guess it had to do with a lot of work I was putting in on an Australian stock forum in 2005, chatting about the Fundamental drivers of stocks, and charting. I moved from equities to derivatives, and then to Currencies, because of the speedier activity in Forex charts. I began to talk about Forex and strategies, started Forex threads, and got permission to use some of the systems in use on Forex Factory on the Aussie forum. We used to pm each other about systems, and chat on Skype and Messenger ... still do. But you are correct - if you have a trading buddy, it does lessen the need for a mentor, which can cost money. The idea of having someone to use as a sounding board in this way becomes entirely useless if you can not be honest about wins, losses, silly mistakes, failure to follow your plan, trading unsuitable currency pair, gambling on direction and so on. I still get a bit sheepish when I have to admit a loss, because ... hey! who wants to admit they blew a trade? Particularly when by now, you should have passed that point. But I can tell you this - real mates don't give a toss. They care past the superficial thing. You have to be firm with each other when trading, and have a bit of fun when you're not. The bottom line is that you have to give as good as you get - reciprocate the learning/teaching stuff. The short answer to your question - "How do you find a good trading mate?" is that first you have to be a mate I guess. You can pm traders with whom you share similar ideas and trading instruments. I don't think you have to trade the same TF - eg if you scalp, and he likes longer term positions - that shouldn't stop a good buddy thing happening. Traders Laboratory seems to be filled with even-tempered traders - I would imagine it would not take long to fit in here and find friends to chat with off-forum. It is something you can't force. When I was working contract interstate, I took the time to drive over and see him. It was a great experience to see and share the setup of a fellow trader face-to-face. I guess we are mates for life now - but probably only catch up every 18 months or so in person. Doesn't matter - I care how his trading is working out, and vice versa. I find forum life a bit artificial at times, particularly when some people are inflexible - and many members who post are afraid to say they stuffed up, or that they are struggling. Must a pride thing - we all know jolly well that a lot of us have struggled get to break-even. For myself - I have a darned lot of money to get back from the brokers, and it is going to take me a long time. No shame in that. I never give up once committed. But it is only recently I have managed to get any sort of confidence that I can continue to get back more than I lose. I don't aim to become wealthy - but I want to be able to develop my trading as a guaranteed second income, that I can enjoy making, in a relaxed manner. I've worked on my strategy - now I have to work on myself. I have always found that a bit of self-disclosure quickly brings you to people who are feeling the same. And people are attracted by honesty, not BS. Nobody knows me so I have nothing to lose. It doesn't bother me to say I have had a bad day trading. But by the same token, no one wants to hear how much you are making either. Even with my mate, we talk in pips ... not dollars. I kind of know how much per pip he risks, and vice versa, but we never feel the need to cheer about our wins ... just mention the few pips (or the many) and move on. I hope you do manage to find someone who you can grow along with, Kuokam. It may be the best thing that happened to your trading development. Anyway mate - enjoy 10 minutes of nostalgia on me. Remember Paul Newman in "Cool Hand Luke"? YouTube - Cool Hand Luke - No man can eat 50 eggs scene.

Excellent question, Mighty Mouse - and one which provokes thought - thank you. In the past I have experienced raw fear in trading - so much so that the anxiety of taking a severe loss caused me to sweat profusely. I didn't like that one bit, and it taught me to stick to risk management principles. Even today - I do not claim to have overcome this fear - but I would like to very much. As late as 12 hours ago, I was short the AUDUSD, and experienced a small pullback rally. Instead of using the pullback as an opportunity for another strategic entry in the short direction, I procrastinated, and felt the anxiety rising. In fact, all the old ghosts of failed setups were knocking on my door - I am not happy to admit that, but do so unashamedly. History shows the AUDUSD indeed fell off the table, and my trade was secure and went on to make 70 pips before stalling. In fact the trade could have made another 40 pips for me. But it stalled, and I closed early. I took what I thought the market was offering at the time. I protected what I had, before the price activity took my profits back. Nothing wrong there. But increasing my desire for the outcome might only have served to increase my degree of desperation and anxiety - both are qualities with which I have struggled to be rid, in my trading. However, I feel that if my desire to achieve an outcome is strong enough, then it behoves me to prepare diligently and operate consistently to achieve that outcome. But what if all that diligent preparation failed to achieve the outcome - where does that leave me emotionally? So I have to go with an approach that reduces anxiety, and offers reassurance in the face of a failed setup. This can certainly be achieved with understanding and applying an edge. For me, it is the loss of control that spooks me, and I don't like that feeling one bit. But I suspect a better approach might be to follow what Rande is saying: I find that my performance somehow defines the "me" in my psyche ... perhaps it is the "id" - perhaps the inhibitory effect of an active Superego - I am not well-enough apprised of the subject to be able to say. But while I still have the anxiety of placing myself and my performance on the line with each trade, I am never going to rid myself of that anxiety and fear. My coping mechanism therefore, to this point, has been to develop a strategy and a method that has a high probability of reaching my desired targets. The longer I trade in terms of weeks and months, the less this fear strikes me as I write up another failed trade. But I find that I do not equally reward myself for a successful trade. Why is that? Why do I put more weight on the negative than on the positive aspects of my trading?

It seems you have a degree of anxiety in your approach, Mighty Mouse, and this is causing you to make certain incorrect assumptions about how markets work, and how trend traders operate. I want to be crystal clear about this: I believe the higher TF are dominant. This may be at odds with others' views - and I will not enter into discussion on that point. Lower TF eventually cause the higher TF to bend and change, but not before there is visible chop in the INTERMEDIATE TF to serve as adequate warning. I use a specific indicator that tells me when the market is range-bound, or is likely to be that way, and I simply "stand by the guns" when that indicator tells me to. You are making a fatal error when you assume there is something wrong with " likely entering when the trend is also partially underway". I do NOT expect to nail the tops and bottoms of trends - I leave that to the obsessive/compulsives and perfectionists - all of whom may spend time on the sidelines re-accumulating capital to "have another attempt" at trading, and still not realising that they are in the whipsaw blender. Failure to wait for a trend to confirm, is asking for whipsaws, and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, Mighty Mouse, when I say I am surprised you don't understand this fundamental reason behind waiting for a trend/breakout to be confirmed, before jumping in. Perhaps this is where your obsession with good and bad luck comes from. You are spot on - I DO wait until the trend is confirmed, and I DO leave money on the table as the price I am prepared to pay to find out if the market is willing to pay ME. I can help you to improve your trading, but you need to discard the view that the market is somehow interested in bestowing a win today and a loss tomorrow. The market does not give a toss who it is at the keyboard sending the buy/sell signals ... it doesn't care. But it DOES reward those who respect it, and do not attempt to tell it what to do. Attempting to jump into a trade BEFORE the move is confirmed, is indeed going to be BAD luck at some point. Remember the market will reward bad technique sometimes, and it is this false success that causes traders to think they are trading well, when all they are doing is gambling. Exactly, and this is the reason I don't give two hoots what the market does. I do not HAVE to win every trade - I never take a loss as a personal sign that the market "got me" or that "my luck was out". In fact, a robust system WILL have Draw Down, and WILL sustain losses - did you ever see a 100% win rate without draw down? Didn't think so, and you won't. Again, Mighty Mouse, your comments here are beginning to border on paranoia. You have some faulty mechanism of thinking that someone out there is trying to trap you. I agree that " There are plenty of times when a trend confirms and reverses" but I vehemently disagree with your foolish assessment that " the sole purpose of confirmation was to trap trend traders into thinking that it was trending". That was a really foolish statement, and I doubt you would find one serious and successful trader on the forum to agree with those sentiments. Look - markets are what they are. They don't fool around with people's heads, as you seem to be saying. You have to have a robust strategy and a positive expectation. You need sound money management and a decent risk:reward ratio. That is all. At this point in your trading career, I am surprised that I even have to mention these things to you. Get this silly notion of "good luck/ bad luck" out of the way - this is what is defeating you. You need to have a really sound approach, and the consistency of will to operate it, regardless of what happens. Take every signal - never cherry pick. You are now putting words into my mouth, Mighty Mouse - Please show me where I said that I " know definitively that a market is going to continue trending". Such a statement is truly worthy of only ridicule. It is obvious from my previous position, that you can NOT tell the markets what it should be doing. But I will say categorically, that the higher TF RULE the day. If you get into a trade, and it continues to tease you into a tough situation, then if you are trading with the HIGHER TF trend, it is likely you will be able to clear a profit in time. But let me state here and now - personally I would cull the trade, and move to the next setup. Even if the trade "would have" made me a decent profit had I held on - I have no regrets - that is part of my strategy, and my personal policy of capital preservation. I like capital - you can NOT trade without it. I don't agree nor disagree with what you assess to be the attributes of a "good trader". I have never asked myself if I am a good or bad trader. I don't struggle with what you say - I see it as the ramblings of a person who hasn't yet worked out a winning strategy viz a viz the illogical and irrational assumptions you have made about the nature of markets, the influence of luck, and your flawed understanding of how trend trading works, and how trend traders ply their strategies. And Mighty Mouse - what may be your need to "make a lot of money in the market" is not mine. I have a simply philosophy - if I continue to operate my strategy consistently, then I WILL continue to hit my financial targets. It is the desire you have to "make a lot of money" that reveals your gambling bent, and of course, fully explains your obsession with luck and its role in the markets. Look mate - I have other fish to fry, and this is getting very tedious and I think I have given you ample opportunity to display some knowledge and rationality of approach. I don't claim to be Paul Rotter by any stretch - but I can say categorically that I am very comfortable with my strategy and my results. I wish you well, buddy, and I leave the last word to you. SALMA Please understand that there are sometimes strong differences of opinion. But although this topic has become extremely lopsided, there are still very important issues raised. I apologise again for pursuing a 'red herring' on your thread, but hope you have been able to understand the necessity to remove "luck" from trading, and ultimately answer your very first question: "Is Trading Just a Sort of Gambling?" The answer is, of course, yes, for some, and I would stress that these "traders" usually do not prosper. For those for whom trading is NOT a gamble, and who do NOT rely on luck, or blame "luck" for any outcome, they will usually be the ones with a long and satisfying trading career. It is possible. Thank you for allowing me space on your thread.

Agreed, but as mentioned, in higher TF I regard traders hitting the bid with 5000 contracts as noise - it does not happen continuously, and even if it did, it would simply be a blip in the other thousands of bids/offers. Central Bank Intervention (Swiss and Japanese central banks most recently) is the same - just get over it - it is NOT happening every day - set SL to deal with it. This kind of dumped-contract-trade at a strategic level ... or "just a few more ticks and I am out of this trade" kind of activity - especially for 5,000 contracts does NOT occur frequently. If it did, we would evolve methods to deal with that. I stand by the "black swan" cliche for aberrations that are not the norm. I prefer to base my trading on events that DO occur regularly, and with high probability - not on events that are outliers. A couple of assumptions there, Mighty Mouse. The first one is correct - I am not good/comfortable with scalping, so I avoid it. But it is incorrect to say that "you will have to take multiple stabs to get it right". The skilled trader waits patiently until the trend is confirmed, and by using the higher TF and an appropriate SL for the pair traded (or instrument traded for non-FX trades) a smooth transition into the trade can be achieved. If not, then the trade is culled, and the "next setup" is taken. That is how I trade - I expect losses - I do not regard a loss as bad luck, or a win as good fortune. I place the probability of success in my favour, and this is a rock-solid approach over time. Wild horses could not separate me from my strategy. It does sound like you are having a personal battle with the market Mighty Mouse. You simply need to get past the idea that it takes good luck to be a good trader. It does NOT. Luck or the lack of it is simply taken in stride - it is not the strategy in itself. Far from "denying the possibility" of the market entering into chop and stopping out the trade, it is possible to simply account for the possibility in the strategy. Luck is irrelevant ... consistency is king. Yes - chop WILL occur at times - thus the less-than-100% success rate for all trades. But it does NOT occur with every trade - or even frequently enough to damage a well-constructed strategy. If it did, then we would be no better than coin flippers. But even a coin flipper can win, provided sound Money Management is employed. Hmmmm. Sounds like a recipe for a big problem one day here. It is simply irrational to look back at trades and think "Gosh what good/bad luck". To do so sells yourself very short indeed. You say you know what you are doing. If you are successful then I do not doubt for a second that you have a consistent approach with a known probability of success. And, it is this attribute of your trading that is growing or shrinking your account - luck has nothing to do with consistency, and all to do with outlier events. Such events are NOT a part of EVERY trade. You dismiss your own skills, Mighty Mouse, in attributing success/failure in trading, to the winds of fortune, and eventually it may be that a new account will be required. If you continue to trade without knowing that YOU caused the win/loss, and take responsibility for that, instead of shifting the onus onto luck, then you would be in a zombie state, and never learn what works and what needs adjustment in your strategy. I don't for one minute believe that what you have written is your actual position on this subject, unless you are kidding. IF you are having any degree of success, then it is MORE than luck - it is down to consistency in application of a strategy. It is down to sound money management, and it is down to trading markets and time frames that suit the strategy and the personality of the trader. Trading based on the presence or absence of some imaginary benevolent influence belongs with the beer-and-pizza party approach to gambling. "If we win, we win. And if not, then we had a good time." Sorry - for me, trading is the treatment mathematically (probability) and science (taking into account all the known facts) of a financial instrument. I can not afford to rely on an ethereal entity to achieve my objectives, and neither should, or does any other trader who hopes one day to break out of the 95% latitudes. I notice that the harder I work at refining what I do, the luckier I become in trading. EDIT: Trading could be regarded as an ART, and a SCIENCE, as well as a SKILL, based on the perception of each trader. It is inevitable that differences of opinion will occur. We are all approaching trading from either the ART/SKILL model, or from the MATHS/SCIENCE/SKILL model. Of course there is an other model - the gambling one, where results rely on luck, or are seen as luck. It is possible to be lucky for a long time, but eventually that run WILL indisputably end ... badly. Salma, Please forgive the indulgence of my going more deeply into this aspect of trading - I hope you do not feel your thread has been taken too far off-topic here. But the gambling and luck model does need to be discussed and placed into perspective. I hope you have been able to understand a few of the obstacles that await new traders. I suggest you do not trade with real cash for several months, until you have had opportunity to experience the kinds of market activity that can occur. Only then can you begin to grasp the approach that will suit your personality and risk profile, and bring to you a sense of security and relaxation as you trade. Please may I suggest that you try to master the higher time frames - DAILY and perhaps WEEKLY charts - before attempting to get involved in the fast-and-furious aspects of scalping and very short time frame trading. Having success in the slower-moving time frames is very important, and NO LESS profitable, despite that scalpers generally are attracted to that form of trading. More trades does NOT necessarily mean more money.

I hope Ryan is still around, or has been able to resolve this issue - as Brownsfan said - he's "been there before". My story is a little different ... but similar. I went through a stage where I could NOT look at a chart of anything and even pick whether the chart was showing some pullback or a bounce off Support or Resistance. In fact at that time I used to sit and simply stare at the charts mindlessly at times, not able to find any opportunity to trade at all. When I did enter a trade, it tanked! I am a fan of NLP or hypnotherapy because I have seen the results in others, but at the time this was not an option for me. I had once been to a Trading Coach (you may have heard of Chris Shea here in Australia (Google has). And I rang Chris to see what I could do about it. He had only one piece of advice - get away from trading and charts for three months. I was not to even look at a chart or think about them, or strategies etc. I sim[ly could not achieve the three months - but I did get two weeks, followed by another half-hearted fortnight where I semi-abstained from looking for trades. By then I was beginning to think better as the fog began to lift, and I began to understand the sheer power of taking a break. I would recommend this to any trader, whether in a bad patch or not. There is simply NO SUBSTITUTE for getting away from the desk for a few weeks as a way to restore sharpness and clarity in analysis of your trades. I still do it for periods of time - but it is difficult to switch off "cold turkey"! It is something you have to mentally prepare for as well, so that you do not find yourself sitting and wondering what to do. You WILL go through some withdrawal - but it is all part of the healing process. You have to find alternative things to do - set goals to catch up with friends and relatives - get in touch emotionally with family again (it's been awhile, hasn't it!). And I am sure there is that fishing rod / golf set / bowling ball etc sitting there gathering dust. And if all that fails, what about getting some fitness to reduce that waistline, or reducing the backlog of little (and big) maintenance jobs that has been building up while you have been learning to trade or earning your pips? In short, there is nothing like getting back in touch with life - walking barefoot in the park ... to use a cliche. It can be done, and the effects can be very rewarding in ways that you may have forgotten - and the biggest bonus of all - you will have freed yourself from the trading tyrant - you will be back in control.