Ingot54

OK guys - Mysticforex is looking for names for the April Forex Trading Comp. As I see this, it is not a matter of winning it or not. It is a matter of participating in something that other traders are trading at the same time. This means we have an opportunity to compare a strategy we use with those of others. At the same time we can learn if our strategy selected the same trades - fewer/more trades etc. And we get to see how others are handling the market conditions. This is a great moment in my trading life because right now I am wondering if I want to persist. I want to know if it really is possible to do better than break-even, or are others blowing hot air? I believe I have a great strategy, and I will get to monitor my own consistency in following it as well. Mysticforex - how many numbers do you have now? Should be go ahead and download a demo platform, or is there a specific way to do this so that we can be shown on your spreadsheet? That's the only reason I have not yet opened a demo trading a/c with Oanda. We have 3 days to put up our hands for the comp. Should be a good learning op.

I have posted the Woodie CCI in this thread, (for MT4 indicators): http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f46/mt4-indicators-9336.html#post114996 .

OK Mysticforex I have Woodies CCI for MT4 ... attached below. Incidentally I may be able to obtain (legally) "almost" any MT4 indicator - even some custom and an occasional proprietary indicator. Feel free to ask. Cheers . Woodie CCI.mq4

Thank you Mysticforex, and traders Laboratory. I just checked the recording - almost 70 minutes - so will reserve the weekend for viewing this. I was pleased to read the comment by NinjaTrader_Staff in the thread: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f114/charting-tools-comparable-bloombergs-9483.html#post114880 ... post #10: I am hoping that NT charting will be superior to my MT4 set up, otherwise I see little point moving from the familiar to the unfamiliar. It will need to provide an additional edge to what I am already doing. I am at the stage where I am fast losing interest in trading generally speaking. I am weary of the constant struggle to evolve with the changes. It seems that as soon as I begin to master the beast, it develops a new feature. Seven years ago we didn't have the intervention of algorithmic trading and high frequency trading and so on ... at least not to the extent we have today. I am asking a serious question here, but a very simple one ... "Is it worth it?" I think I have just wasted 7 years - the proverbial "7 years bad luck!" My goal when I began trading was to ease from shift work to an income replacement situation. I never planned for a Ferarri or a condominium in the French Riviera, with a private jet to whisk me there at will! It was a matter of provision for a Baby-Boomer retirement that was never going to be delivered by the government. Having reached break-even or a little better at times (the lines are still blurred) I am wondering if trading is really ever going to deliver on the promise, or I will still be mired down in some kind of struggle to exploit my edge for the next 5 years? I watch these kinds of Webinars to see if somehow I can gain a critical tweak. But nothing can change the events that have rocked the CHF and JPY pairs over the past 24 hours. How can traders hope to compete in these conditions? Will a good trading/charting software package make any difference? Here I am attempting to move away from the 15Min / 1H trades to 4H and Daily, but it gets destroyed in one session, and stops are triggered. These are not the markets I began trading 7 years ago, with nice identifiable trends. This is just sentimental and speculative chop, dredged up by frightened traders who drive trends north ... then south ... then north again, without rhyme nor reason. Technically I am attempting to trade what I am seeing, not what my personal bias tells me. Consequently I am attempting to follow Price Action and a couple of "tuner" indicators. It is all turning to ashes and trash in front of my eyes. How can anyone follow this mess? I am serious when I lament the loss of the longer trends we once saw. You can't trade the trash ... the wheels are falling off. Will NinjaTrader software make any difference to that? We shall see.

Thanks for the input Steve - and no, good information never offends. It is always helpful to hear what other traders find useful - regardless of which level they trade. At my level I am finding the charting simplicity of MT4 platforms are adequate to trade a 15 Min-to-4 Hour time-frame, and the higher the TF, the less sophisticated my requirements. A couple of MA's and a bit of Price Action knowledge, and a sentimental favourite indicator is probably all I need to see if a chart is doing something. How well I handle what I am seeing depends on other factors - factors that depend less on the quality of the chart. If there is an obstruction ahead, the driver still has to swerve, or suffer the consequences. Recognising that obstruction is where the rubber touches the tarmac. Cost has always been a factor when choosing my tools, and I have tried to stay within my skill-set in choosing charting packages. No use trying to manage a Learjet when you are mentally only fit for an old Jalopy! And what may be an old Jalopy to one trader, can be made to seem like a Learjet in the hands of a better trader. No doubt an ability to own, afford good data, understand the features of, and extract the best from a half-decent charting setup, would make some difference over time, but the best charting package in the world can not help a flawed approach. Going with the common package can yield the common result ... where is the balance? Where there is no vision (guidelines and discipline) the people perish! Your posts have brought right out in the open the things that are possible in trading, and I have enjoyed a bit of dreaming while reading your stuff. It doesn't hurt. I have referred your posts on the ES to a friend of mine who trades eMinis, to open his eyes to possibilities. Unfortunately traders like myself are a long way from walking in shoes like yours, and it then becomes a matter or resigning yourself to your fate. Will it be the Learjet ... or the Jalopy? 90% of us don't know the truth of that yet! .

There is no point, Tradewinds. I doubt enough traders would humble themselves to enrol in any course. But as Siuya said, there is plenty of free and good quality stuff "out there" already, that traders are not utilising. The only "education" most newbies want is "what is the best broker" or "what is the best trading platform". They want "curry-in-a-hurry" ... well, I suspect they will get it, but not the hot stuff they were hoping for. Eventually traders come to their senses - usually it is about 2 accounts down the track, but by the they have suffered most of the kinds of psychological damage there is to suffer in trading, it will take the next 2 accounts plus tax, to begin to make headway into "fixing" the damage. I think I will set up an educational blog, free, and see what sort of business it drums up! EDIT: While I still think all traders need to have a grasp of the basics of trading and the risks, requirements and the pathway to rewards, I think it will need to be a private school. The regulators will not offer such a curriculum, although the ASX does offer some pretty good courses. I attended an information evening in Hobart run by the ASX in 2004. It was a teaser to sell their ten-step preparation course for new traders, and the bones of it were excellent. I can only imagine what the quality of the full deal was - but I didn't attend ... I regret not attending now. Oh yes - I was too lousy to cough up a few dollars for the information!

"Incredible Charts" might be worth a look - there is a free version and a premium version. Fully customisable and data is free, but end-of-day only, with the free version. Premium (paid) version is updated hourly inra-day. Huge number of indicators, a custom filtered scanner and watch-list creation etc.

I think you misunderstood me, Siuya - I don't see an issue with your point of view. My point is solely directed at the trader (client) requiring some training and certification of competency. I haven't really got a beef with the provider side of the industry at all - we all know they will do as little as possible to comply with whatever regulations there are, and my statement that they are "toxic and broken" but that is what it is - none of us will change that. By trying to regulate THAT side of the Industry is just going to push poor behaviour further underground. I am happy to leave the brokers alone - as is. My point was that traders (clients) need to be made aware of the dangers of dealing with them - that is all. And to accomplish that, some structure on the trader (client) side is required - there is currently NONE! Or at least what does exist, is water weak and rice-paper thin. By "traders" my definition is the retail wannabe get-rich-quick cashed-up and dreamy client, not the provider (broker) of the retail markets. I think that is where we have crossed wires. The industry already has regulations to guide responsible behaviour. As you said - some of them can remove your socks without disturbing your shoes - slippery snakes! But Joe Schmloe is not equipped out of high school to cope with them. He needs to be brought up to speed a bit before being let loose with his $500 - $5000 - $50,000, or he won't get past Wednesday! I hope I have clarified my position.

Good points, Siuya - and no, my noise is not about getting gov't to bail me out if I fail (hand-holding) ... but avoiding the need for bailing out in the first place. The markets are very tough for professionals - why should an amateur think he can open an a/c and beat them at their own trade? I agree about the leverage - more than 4 or 5 times is excessive and really unnecessary. If not for the leverage available, I believe more traders would make more effort to understand what they are doing. Eventually they will. As far as I can see, we agree on almost everything. If the industry thinks compliance regulations are a nightmare, then who does it have to blame? Only itself, because the industry has been far too willing to pick the easy fruit (sucker the retail trader) and who would have expected it to be otherwise? The industry has attracted the attention of the regulators, and who can they blame for that? When I began trading CFD's in 2004, there was a certain company widening spread, triggering stop-loss orders, and sending cascades of selling through the markets, taking out stops and then when done, contingent buy orders were triggered, driving the prices back up to near the initial trigger point. Remember the "kangaroo tail" pattern in the charts? I think BlueScope Steel was one of the companies whose stocks were affected by this, and Macquarie Airports, from memory. I belonged to a forum whose members took on this company, and we succeeded in getting several of these CFD positions restored. The company eventually ceased this practice, and today I believe they are using only the standard "delay-and-requote" tactic (slippage) to sucker the retail trader. Who knows what else - it is not all above board that's for certain - we are talking about money here! A level playing field would need to involve the (shudder) 'H' word (honesty). And that's where the sucker trader is at a disadvantage - he doesn't know the tricks. Then there was Opus prime, as you mentioned. The son of a prominent market official was used by a disbarred person, to run a company. I am not in a position to confirm, and do not suggest that the company was Green Frog Nominees. You will have to read the Google information on that. I am happy to send you the link to my own research, still posted on an Australian forum about that whole issue. Even ASIC did not act on the information that was widely available in the financial press - at least not to public satisfaction. The class action involving the ANZ bank are still en train I believe. There is a reason that ASIC has not acted against the Board of Opes Prime - if you haven't figured it out from my above statements, I can privately make that clear. I do not want to be drawn into defamation issues or place this forum at risk, but the facts scream for justice. There was no overt stupidity involved from the public side, who were investing in a regulated market. So under your scenario, the second thing you can't regulate against has to have occurred ... fraud. Maybe it did ... maybe it didn't ... the reader has to interpret the facts, and the facts are available. The Australian Financial Review, and the tabloids had good reporting at the time, but it all cooled, and the carpet is bulging where the sweepings ended up! It is exactly because of "Opes prime, Storm Financial, Allco, Babcock, Tricom, Sonray" that I say investors should be required to receive some training. I am not in favour of more regulation - they are not the same thing, though the same outcome would be desirable, if it protects investor's money. At the end of the day, 90% of investors will probably lose some or all of their money, if the widely-believed stats have any cred. I think that with some training and education, these figures could be made a little more respectable. However, whenever money is involved, corruption trails. I won't go into money laundering and the criminal side of markets - but you have to agree that SOME regulation is needed. If taken to the 'nth degree' regulation will kill a market. So irregularities are tolerated. Just look at the insider trading on the ASX - shares rise/fall for three days before an important announcement, yet no one is ever held to account. I have discarded now the emails I sent to the ASX about this - all they ever say is that they will investigate, but the results will not be made public. Why bother! My whole point is that Joe Schmloe can stump up 500 bucks and open an a/c without even having an idea about the market he is going to trade. He just has to say yes in the right places, and tick the box. He just has to provide ID, and state that he has money to play with, and enough "assets" to satisfy the regulations. No one actually requires proof of anything he says - it is just, as you said, to protect the counter party against claims that they took candy from babies. Be assured - they are still taking candy from babies, but the regulations now say that it is ok because baby Joe Schmloe ticked the boxes that allow them to take his. MightyMouse is correct - The disclaimer is just the legal cover to allow something sinister to occur - selling the sizzle when there is no sausage! In my day we called this "Lying". Today it is called "Marketing." If you get caught it is called "Fraud." I stand by my position that in order to participate in the financial markets, traders need licensing ... something that at least guarantees they received instruction and knowledge. I think you might have taken the issue further when you brought in the regulatory side of the industry - but I know that it is toxic and broken - no amount of regulation can fix it, without destroying what it is. The regulators have NFI what they are doing anyway! And that is why traders need to be aware of just how dangerous to their financial health the markets really are. Only enlightenment before the fact can help the wise. The uneducated/unknowledgeable will always be separated from their candy. Traders do need accreditation. As for the regulation of the opposite party - no amount of accreditation will fix that - I will always see it as them sailing as close to the wind as they can get away with. After all - they have their targets to reach and their bonuses to protect! The counter to that? Education of Joe Schmloe! Don't let them take your candy without a tussle. Better still ... don't let them take your candy ... period.

Mysticforex - I have been looking for this for some time - thank you. I have not "unpacked it" yet, but I am sure it will prove to be useful. I was looking at a version offered from another forum, but it required a 'key' from the creator of the software to allow it to remain active after 30 days. The other thing is to be able to utilise this effectively - do you have any strategies to go with it?

I'm in. Could you confirm the "Weds 4/23" part please? Did you mean 3/23?

It's a difficult question, to be sure. If the system sellers and industry participants were registered (in the jurisdiction in which they have a physical, functioning office) then immediately we should see a vast hoovering of the rubbish retailers and vendors, who beguile the unwary, as they currently are doing. Same with brokers, coaches, mentors, psychologists. But once you pay your money, with whom is a complaint lodged? Unless you have prior knowledge of the integrity of the operator, you are up that famous creek without a paddle! I live in Australia, where we have (thankfully) a strict regulatory authority - miles ahead of the USA and the UK. I will NOT use an overseas broker, who does not have an Australian office. I live by the adage: "If you don't deal at home ... you're alone!" Consider this: If I send $12k to a broker in the USA, and "something goes wrong" (see Forex Peace Army for examples of "something going wrong") how can I expect to get my money back? Am I going to jump on a jet and fly 12,000 miles to New York to knock on their door to try to wring the neck of some wet-eared office hack, to get a cheque written? Chances are the office is only a "virtual one" and I am out of luck ... I might have to fly to The Caymans or Corfu in the Greek Islands, to try to get the money! Where would we be without regulation? I prefer Australian regulations. Note: We have no need for Forex Peace Army in Australia. Now ... why would we want every section of our industry regulated, EXCEPT ourselves? What is it about education that is required of us, that we have difficulty with? Are we losing any freedom by participating in training? No ... I don't think so, unless it is in the freedom to blow up an account. Here's the rub: Eventually we are forced to accept education. Either we get it at the hands of a callous market, or at the hands of unscrupulous operators, bucket shops, system vendors, shoddy coaches and psychologists, at the cost of one or more trading accounts ... or ... we get it in an early and structured manner, for a competitive price from accredited trainers, properly skilled in the market business they teach. In Oz we have the ATAA (Australian Technical Analysts Association) which have a good reputation for the courses they run. If you find a vendor in Oz who can say they are a member of the ATAA, then you are ahead to begin with - the quality should be class. I regret not doing one of their courses much earlier in my trading adventure. And today, I can assure you, I have a very strong bias towards the view that traders should not be allowed to participate in trading, without this kind of training, or its equivalent. If it's freedom of choice that bugs people - then what is it about choosing the wasteful way of freedom to blow up an account, against freedom to ensure trading success, that attracts people? It is like the Constitution of the United States of America, which has a statute I believe, that guarantees the right of citizens to bear arms. As long as they don't want to bear arms on an aircraft flight! Trading is the same - you can trade all you like - just don't whinge when you are losing, because you have the right to lose if you wish. You have the right to trade without skill You have the right to blow your account You have the right to not remain silent if you didn't know you were being fleeced You have the right to persist in this foolish venture until you come to your senses You have the right to wear the responsibility for your failure or You have the right to be educated You have the right to trade correctly and skilfully You have the right to grow your account You have the right to become profitable in a fraction of the time an ignorant trader might take You have the right to implore others to get an education before trading live money You have the right to accept the responsibility and accolades for your success My career profession took me years to achieve registration, and requires me to undergo an annual regulatory "proof of ongoing education" audit. Why should it be different for a trader, who risks vast sums of money that, strictly speaking, his spouse and heirs might also have a stake in? Is that fair? Or is that exercising freedom of choice - even to the extent of violating the freedom of choice of concerned others at the same time? Example: In Australia we are heavily regulating the tobacco industry. Yet we still hear cries of "It's my right to smoke." It is indeed. But it should then be the responsibility of the smoker to pay for his own smoking-related cancer, don't you think? The point is, we want our rights, but when it goes belly-up, we want others to bail us out. When I worked in a cancer unit in 1989, the figures at the time were that for every $1 the government received in tobacco excise, they paid out $23,000 in caring for patients with smoking-related disease. True story: My (once) sister-in-law used to be a heavy tobacco smoker (as was I back then). I discussed with her the dangers of smoking (after I quit) and she stated "You have to die of something." To which I replied: "Yes, but do you know HOW you will die from smoking-related illnesses?" She shrugged. A few years ago she developed cancer of the throat at age 48, and sought treatment very late. Miraculously, the surgeons were able to isolate and remove all of the tumour. Later she developed a breat lump, and later still more unmentionable complications. I refrain from pointing the finger at her folly, because mine may yet catch up with me. But there are always consequences if we ignore the responsibilities that accompany every activity.

In Queensland, Australia, I believe you are not allowed to open a small business venture until you have completed the government's accredited Small Business Course ... and passed it! Why is this different in trading? Mainly because of the structure of trading - no employees to protect, no insurance required, no creditors to pay. In fact the general public doesn't get injured if you fail - other than having to fund a pension for you when you are on the pointy end of your butt in retirement years, and you have squandered your money in a pursuit that you are ill-equipped to follow. Tradewinds has started an interesting discussion here: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/30/right-coach-mentor-3335-2.html#post114653 about whether traders need to be more skilled or even formally qualified before being let near a trading platform.

That would be a legitimate view for sure. I know that had I been faced with the prospect of having to complete a course at the time I was beginning to invest in stocks, I would have been quite annoyed. It's a free (well it used to be) country as far as investing goes at least, regardless of where you live (I suppose the world does have exceptions). But even in restrictive regimes, money speaks loudest - even above idealism. And that brings me to my point. If we have been paying attention in class, we would be noticing that the world of investing is really not a very nice place. The system is designed to use newbie traders as fodder for the experienced. Indeed, the system NEEDS new money coming into the game all the time, in order to continue growth. Much of this money comes from Institutions who can barely out-perform the Index, regardless of their "management skills." But a lot of it also comes in the form of the "sucker bets" made by the naive and greedy/hopeful/fearful new traders "having a go" at making some "big money." If you have a ruthless mindset, you will say: "tough titties" to the newbies who get their anatomy handed back to them on a plate. The consensus is that 90% of these new chums will be disillusioned and "retired hurt" within 12 months, so who cares? Well ... I do actually. I have a problem with an industry that takes your money first and takes names later. This has been my theme from day one in trading, going back 7 years now. Not that I have a whistle to toot for my ego, but I have found that the more I share, the more I am able to consolidate what I am learning. In my profession we have a saying: "Watch one ... do one .. teach one!" regarding invasive bodily procedures. I believe this principle could be applied across-the-board ... and is ... in most professional pursuits. So why isn't it in trading? Well ... it is actually ... except most of us are too proud to accept that we might truly need some assistance with something as simple as "buy-low-sell-high." It is only after a few failures that newbies enter "Stage II - The Quest for the Holy Grail" starring ... themselves. Once again ... they are on the wrong track ... second mistake. They try systems, signal services, indicators, chat rooms and trading rooms, different instruments, leveraged and unleveraged trading and so on, until they fall and fail, utterly exhausted and disillusioned by the wayside. Note that the "wayside" is a far cry from the "high road" they undertook from the outset. Remember? Dreams-in-hand, plans for the Condo and Ferarri, early retirement, and sailing boat on the open blue sea, heading for a port where their private Lear jet awaits, to whisk them off to the next exciting wonder of the world! So, Tradewinds ... we are beginning to turn around here a little bit. We have to wonder which is the lesser of two evils ... the choices now appear to broaden a little: or: totally manipulated and controlled by big trading institutions and gun traders. Look ... not everything the regulators do is bad, or should I say 'bad for the retail trader.' I agree that the regulators frequently make decisions that they have no freaking idea about - never been involved in industries personally, that their job description requiress them to administer. But my own view has come around 180 degrees now, and I am actually in favour of traders needing to show some acumen in their chosen instrument before being let loose to blow their 401's or retirement nest eggs. There is a saying: "If you think education is expensive ... try ignorance!" (attributed to Derek Bok former president of Harvard University) and it has never been truer than in its application to the trading world. I think that forums like this one are filling a very big gap - but if we (on these forums) only chatter about what we have tried in the past - engaging in "market speak" as I like to call it - then the situation remains "the blind leading the blind" with the outcome we frequently leave off "resulting in both falling in the ditch." For support of my point of view, I offer this from Wikipedia: Wouldn't it have been far better for a person wanting to augment income through trading, to complete an accredited course first? That course could cover a specific market, risk, money management, leverage, random outlier events and so on. Wouldn't it also be far better to have accredited trading teachers, instead of the rabble we are trying to deal with today? There is no way of knowing who is or isn't a good coach/mentor, blogger, except by word of mouth. And in a virtual world, of instant transmission of knowledge (and a few dollars to pay for it), easy is it to deceive the unskilled and unknowing? Wouldn't you rather tolerate a little regulation, where the marketing wizards were accountable, or lose their accreditation; where the system seller had to be registered; where brokers were disallowed from operating in jurisdictions where they do not have a physical, functioning branch office; and where traders are required to demonstrate basic knowledge of Fundamental and/or Technical Analysis, along with an understanding of the Sentimental Factors that are also known to move markets irrationally? Someone is more than $60k better of at my expense today, because of my ignorance. I am slowly beginning to claw that back now - but oh! don't I wish I had understood back then at least 40% of what I do now! Wouldn't you? Is there a case in favour of Retail Traders requiring a Trading License? I hope I have answered that question.

Thanks Steve for that assessment and for the good information you provided ... education, economics reports ... and not the least - RISK management. I am interested in what else you have to say, and will follow your posts here - thanks for your efforts to make a difference. I recently came across a site that allows people to receive up-to-date info on what can be important indicators of risk. There is a subscription fee, but also a free bi-weekly Intelligence Report. I think experienced traders will quickly realise the importance of such information, and I hope this post does not detract from the other things you are sharing. I can not post the link ... forum rules ... but this is exactly the same thing: Google: "Stratfor Geopolitical Intelligence" Cheers

One of my fav groups ... one of many There isn't a "best song" from them - they didn't release a "bad" song! Unfortunately I couldn't grab a good quality concert number, so had to settle for an album spoof! This was released during the Vietnam days, and the comments under the Youtube bear testimony to how music kept the bonds strong amongst the troops, and burned in some memories of goodness amongst the hell of the SE Asian jungles. I was fortunate that my name was by-passed in the ballot, but I knew many men who had been to 'Nam. Unfortunately I could not say any of them was a close friend of mine - these poor souls had no close friends except their own, and never will. For your enjoyment ... and mine - a reminder of a great era in music. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIPan-rEQJA]YouTube - Creedence Clearwater Revival: Who'll Stop The Rain[/ame]

TradeRunner - I would like to hear more of your kind of music. You gave this thread to the forum, and I hope you don't feel pushed out by the kind of music you may not have intended to be listening to. My contributions (and those of others) have provided a cross section of the creative talents of some of the worlds greatest ... and others! I hope you are able to enjoy these: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSz16ngdsG0]YouTube - sarah mclachlan - i will remember you[/ame] and for something a little more upbeat: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXp413NynFk]YouTube - Santana - Smooth (feat. Rob Thomas)[/ame]

A man decided it was time to teach his son how to say prayers He instructed his son on praying, then told him to choose someone special each night, & ask for god's blessing for that person. So being a kid, the son that night prayed.."GOD please bless my puppy" ... but the following morning, the puppy was run over by a car and killed!! The next night, the boy asked GOD, to please bless his beloved pussycat ... but on awakening he found the cat had been ripped to pieces by a large aggressive dog! By now the father had started to see a connection, but decided it was just coincidence. But when the kid asked GOD to bless his goldfish, the father checked first thing in the morning, to find the goldfish floating belly up in the bowl. That night, the kid ended his prayer with ... GOD please give an extra special blessing to my father. The father couldn't sleep He couldn't eat breakfast in the morning He was afraid to drive to work He couldn't get any work done because he was petrified finally quitting time came, and as he walked home, he expected to drop dead at any minute When he arrived home, the house was a mess ... his wife was laying on the couch, still dressed in her robe ... the dishes from breakfast were still on the table, and the father was furious!! He started yelling at his wife, telling her that he'd just had the worst day of his life...and that she was still undressed. She looked at him and said ... "You think you had a bad day, this morning the postie dropped dead on our front porch!"

An Australian man is seeking to join the Police force The Sergeant doing the interview says: "Your qualifications all look good, but there is an attitude suitability test that you must take before you can be accepted." Then, sliding a pistol across the desk, he says: "Take this pistol and go out and shoot six illegal immigrants, six drug dealers, six Muslim extremists, and a rabbit." "Why the rabbit?" "Great attitude," says the Sergeant. "When can you start?"

George Bush has a heart attack and dies. He goes to hell where the devil is waiting for him. "I don't know what to do here, " says the devil. " You are on my list. . . but I have no room for you." "You definitely have to stay here, so I'll tell you what I'm going to do." "I've got three folks here who weren't quite as bad as you, I'll let one of them go, but you have to take their place. I'll even let YOU decide who leaves. George thought that sounded pretty good, so he agreed. The devil opened the door to the first room: in it was Richard Nixon in a large pool of water. He kept diving in and surfacing empty-handed over and over and over. - Such was his fate in hell. "No!" George said. "I don't think so. I'm not a good swimmer and don't think I could do that all day long." The devil led him to the next room: in it was Tony Blair with a sledgehammer and a room full of rocks. All he did was swing that hammer, time after time after time. "No, I've got this problem with my shoulder. I would be in constant agony if all could do was break rocks all day!" commented George. The devil opened a third door. In the room George saw Bill Clinton, lying on the floor with his arms staked over his head, and his legs staked in spread eagle pose. Bent over him was Monica Lewinsky, doing what she does best. George Bush looked at this in disbelief for a while and finally said, "Yeah, I can handle this." The devil smiled and said, "OK, Monica, you’re free to go!"

Well .... told you that wasn't for everyone ... and this will similarly not be for fans of popular music. But In the interests of inclusivity, I would like to present what was something phenomenal, though by no means unique. In 1985 Aled Jones, a Welsh boy-soprano, recorded this song: "Walking in the Air". The song was included in the movie: "The Snowman", though in that film it was sung by Peter Auty, not Jones. The song reached No. 5 in the UK charts in 1985. He has recorded twenty-four albums to date, many of which reached gold or platinum status in the UK and Australia. Aled released a 'greatest hits' compilation album: "You Raise Me Up-The Best of Aled Jones" in November 2006, featuring a reprise of his song "Walking in the Air", which has now become a duet between young and present Aled. For your enjoyment. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEWcOcX_AHQ]YouTube - Walking in the Air[/ame]

Nice, Certenotti. After that though, I need something lighter ... though it won't suit many! Kids ... don't try this at home! So ... now for something completely different ... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhWfSeMYHA]YouTube - Cows With Guns[/ame]

Just went to sign up and realised I won't be able to attend due to prior commitment. Do you think they will make a replay of this webinar available at another time MMS? I would really appreciate that. Cheers

Yeah, me too TradeRunner. The worst thing is he hasn't come back, despite the door being open wide. And this has spawned the kind of boorish posting we see on this thread. Thanks a lot kiwi ... get your butt back here ... NOW!! Otherwise we are going to see this thread deteriorate form the hypothetical to the ridiculous ... but alas! I fear we are too late ... it has already reached the latter stage. And it is all Kiwi's fault!