Ingot54

Very useful post Tim - thank you for sharing in meaningful detail. Those xls files might or might not be utilised - I won't know until I really try to use them on a daily basis. The way you have set out how to get the best from record-keeping seems to be bearing fruit for you. In my case, my trading has been limited - about 5 trades a week on average. I have had 2 winning weeks out of the past 3 weeks, and I think only by using these electronic aids will I find out if they are going to be my long-term friends. Your three questions dig pretty deep. Thanks again - this is worth bookmarking.

Ah. That's an easy one Jack. The "personal expectations" bit is simply a bias the trader has, that the market "will" move in a certain direction. When crude oil prices rise, I expect the USDCAD to fall, as the Canadian dollar strengthens. That is a "personal expectation." But the market might not want to buy the CAD because perhaps an Ivey PMI release might be a seriously red number. By treating the USDCAD as simply another chart, and trading what the chart IS doing, instead of what it "should" be doing, the bias is overcome. Non-Farm Payroll figures releases are a classic example. Very rarely will the market spike in the final direction of the trend. I call NFP releases the "payday for the brokers." Can you imagine how much money brokers make when the NFP numbers come out? It happens every month, and every month the brokers get paid! Traders still try to trade it - many can, the majority flunk! We have a very elaborate network set up so that news can be released to the market in a controlled way. Ever wonder why that is, and who benefits from this system? Never take a bias against/in favour of the market. Always be reactive to what is happening, not proactive. (I'm not talking about counter-trend here.) And thanks for your kind comment.

Jack - I had never heard of Masaru Emoto until now - thank you. After Googling and reading, I was amazed at the similarity between his ethereal and unsubstantiated theories and those of the trading support group known as trading psychologists. I won't write one of my famous long essays on this topic at this time. But I would simply like to ask a couple of rhetorical questions to psychologists and those who purport to belong to the erudite "Traders Support Fraternity": 1) Where are the successful students with their testimonials ... real ones? 2) Where are the students' yachts? Kind regards, and tirelessly in pursuit truth, Ingot PS - It might be that Psychologists belong in a group with Dermatologists. Their clients' conditions: 1) Never get better; 2) Never get worse: 3) Never ring up in the middle of the night; 4) Always remain in need of therapy

In trading financial markets, you MUST learn to take a loss - that is fundamental to the profession. Failure to limit both the number and size of losses will immediately give rise to anxiety. No strategy wins every time, so what causes losses, and why do traders react so badly when a trade fails? Here are my top 20 reasons in random order: gambling over-trading impulse trading lack of screen time poor trading strategy over-leveraging trades having low trading capital needing to make money quickly failure to have a written trading plan unsuitable method for the market traded false expectations that they must always win risking money that the trader cannot afford to lose lack of experience in how price and markets move risking a higher percentage of the account than prudent trading in a time-frame that is unsuited to the trader’s ability trading with capital that the trader really can not afford to lose failing to commit to a strategy that has been proven over time to work failing to focus on executing the strategy exactly as specified in the plan getting into live trading before thorough and full preparation has been completed trading in line with personal expectations instead of reacting to what the market is doing For the new trader, the anxiety is both natural and more intense and unless he learns to overcome every one of these trading issues (the list is not exhaustive) he is doomed to repeat the losing process throughout his trading career. Intervention is clearly needed to fast-track the process. There are things the trader can do for himself before taking the rather drastic step of outsourcing his initiative to an independent professional. I recently read a quote attributed to Ed Seykota as mentioned in Jack Schwager’s book: “Market Wizards.” Seykota said: “A losing trader can do little to transform himself into a winning trader. A losing trader is not going to want to transform himself. That's the kind of thing winning traders do.” One of the easiest things traders can do, to avoid the anxiety that comes from risking and losing money is to take steps to address the problems head-on. But what if the trader is not aware of the problem causing the losses and the resulting anxiety? My answer to that is to copy down the list above, and do some Internet research and add to the list. Do not think these things do not apply to you. If you are a trader these issues certainly will have been an issue for you at some time, and may currently still be causing havoc in your trading. I have had to deal with these issues myself, and I have no shame in saying I continue to deal with some of them. But: “What role does psychology play in trading the financial markets?” A very, very big role indeed. When the comparison is made between new and experienced traders, the difference is obvious – the experienced trader displays much less anxiety and emotional reaction to losses than his newbie counterpart. It is the knowledge and experience that makes that difference. But is it a natural thing to simply address the listed issues and move forward in a relaxed and successful manner? Certainly not, because statistically (we are told) that somewhere in the 90-to-95% range of traders lose money in trading, and some traders have been doing this for years. In fact you will need to dig quite deeply to actually find a trader who is making a living from trading. If this is the case, what hope does a trader have of ever reaching the winning circle? Can it be done? The reason I write this blog is that I utterly believe any and all traders have the potential to reach professional status in trading foreign exchange. If I didn’t believe it, I would long ago be doing something else. This gives rise to more questions … how does a trader bridge that gap between failure and success … what is required to make that difference … who or what can truly help him? Firstly I say that the trader must exhaust all possible avenues himself so that he is NOT wasting his time and money in consulting a professional, when these things could already be dealt with through a little research and diligence. The next thing is to discuss problems with peers on a good quality forum. Frequently it is possible to build rapport with one or two experienced traders who can help overcome the difficult issues. But occasionally the makeup of the trader does not fit in with this pathway, and seeking help from a good market-coach becomes a logical next step. An experienced coach can usually spot the problem in one session, with a few simple questions. But occasionally (and I might add rarely) it might be necessary to consult a psychologist. For example: If a trade is set up and triggered, but the trader cannot take that trade, then yes, he may need to obtain psychological assistance to deal with that blockage. Traders who experience this kind of "freezing-up" at the moment of committal to a trade, usually find the genesis of the problem goes back to a record of painful losses earlier. Such things can usually be fixed through taking baby steps and tiny trades, under strict strategy guidelines, until the problem is gone. This step (to employ a psychologist) should be in the “last resort” basket, with the proviso that the choice of psychologist be restricted to a specialist in assisting traders, and in particular, one who is/has been a trader. There is a big difference between using market psychology and using a psychologist. Under normal circumstances in a trader’s progression to profitable trading, only one of these two are usually necessary. Be certain first that the issue is not a coaching issue. The greater battle is won through having a strategy that you trust, and confining risk to small numbers, and having the confidence to take EVERY setup that your method finds for you. _________________________ _____ Posted in my Blog: http://www.forexapplepie.com

Closing it all out ... for now Just another note, John Over the course of these few weeks, I have adopted the role of "teacher" or "mentor" to a degree. But I am not really like that. I have certainly spoken the truth to you as I know it, and to add some importance, I have used an air of authority, to help you remain objective, and understand the importance of taking a break, and really looking at what you are doing. I probably do have a lot of experience that is good to pass on, but so do you. I am certain that had I asked the same questions of you, about what works, and how to get my trading back on track, or how to overcome burnout, you would have been able to respond similarly to me. I feel I am just another trader, doing my best to get to the next level. Just wanted to clear that up - I am no guru, by any stretch, and I do have my ghosts that haunt me too. I would like to keep in touch with you, and exchange ideas if and when breakthroughs occur, or if/when light are turned on. It happens all the time in trading, and these moments should not be lost. Some trader said he has "never worked so hard for easy money!" and that is so true. The time I have spent educating myself in trading skill over the years has been probably almost equal to the time I have spent at my job. Anyway John - all that to say I am still looking, and probably will until I find what I need to bring myself to the next level. Cheers Ivan ************************* ********************** Hello Ivan,, I was thinking about the help you have given me and it has been in the role of mentor/teacher and you have done an excellent job. I really needed to stop wandering and put together the important things I have painstakingly learned. I didn't need a pat on the back for my hard work but I think more so confirmation that what I am looking at is correct and is on track. I needed to define what I am looking for and what I will trade. I only made one trade this week as I am slowly getting back into things and it went in my favor. I made 15 cents on 100 shares so I made $15 on the trade. Everything fell into place according to my plan and I took the position. It was a breakout trade and as such "crowded" to where price was volatile. I had a stop ready but failed to have a profit target in place so I exited. I sat back and really thought about my thoughts that were in my head as I was in the trade with money on the line. After seeing profit something happens and I go into protection mode and took profit. (if you can call it profit,,,,it went on to go a total of 70 cents in my favor never getting close to my stop) Of course I go over the what if ,,,,what if I had 500 shares?,,,what if I had 1000 shares?,,,,I stopped myself there and thought about what I did well. I followed my plan almost to the letter except for a profit target. My check list was all checked and everything,(except profit target) was planned,,,,even stop was ready. I will take the good out of the trade and finally ,,,finally,,,,finally,,,, I took a trade for the right reasons, and according to Tom's plan. 3 weeks ago I didn't have a plan. Now I do. As I said I am slowly getting back and with renewed confidence I hope to send you an e-mail soon and say that I in fact entered a trade and allowed it to work and made 70% or 80% of the total move. My check list is slowly starting blend together, and that has been my focus this week. I see the other e-mail you sent and will respond to it a little later as its morning here and I wanted to answer this one as its more of a personal letter and that I understand what you are saying and of course I intend to keep in touch and see if we can get to the next level with ideas or some small experience that can help us take one more step in the right direction. As you mention you are a story teller and that really helps a person to use their mind and think about what is happening. Your first e-mail showed concern and a willingness to reach out to help and that's hard to find. I will pass that along to someone else one day also. Your last e-mail is really interesting and I will read it a few times and respond soon but wanted to mention that of course you can use these e-mails in a thread. I trust your judgement and the use of the name 'John' works well. I am very interested to read it and how you intend to put it together. Thanks again and talk soon Best regards John

How you REALLY feel about Money!!! Hi again John I have probably replied to this (largely) in the last email. But this is to explain to you how we view money, and how the difference can be in our heads. Imagine you are getting off the train after a day at the office, and you have a briefcase in your hands. You walk to the car park, the same as you have for the past 2 years. You place the briefcase on the ground beside you as you fumble with the car door lock, and then throw the briefcase on the seat beside you, and drive the short distance home. Now ... with that in mind, I want to switch to another scenario. This is just a mental exercise, and is a series of questions ... 1) You are walking out of the bank, and you have $20 in your wallet - same as usual ... so how secure do you feel? Nothing unusual there ... we do this every day with larger or smaller amounts of money we carry on us. 2) Now you leave the bank with $2000 because you have to make a cash payment. How does that feel? Do you forget about the $2000 and just walk on back to your vehicle? Or do you tend to remain very conscious of where your wallet is, and maybe walk a little more directly to the car? 3) Ok - you have just received $70,000 in cash from a little old lady, who has been hoarding money for years. She is a friend, and has asked you to take the money and deposit it in her bank account, as she is too frail to make the journey. How do you now feel about carrying that money on you? (Remember, this is a mental exercise - we aren't able to use electronic transfers.) Do you go alone, or do you feel much more comfortable if you were able to have your brother and perhaps another grown male accompany you to the bank? 4) Ok now - let's go back to the first scenario ... where you are getting off the train. Before this, you had concluded the business deal of your life. You had inherited a Kentucky mansion, but had no need of it or desire to live there. You decide to sell it. The only person who expressed interest in it, offered you $2 million in cash. You accepted, and signed the mansion over to him. But you were not expecting "cash" to be literally bank notes ... you were expecting a cheque. The man hands over a briefcase filled with banknotes of all denominations, but this has been certified by a bank certificate, to be 'clean' money, and all present and correct. Now it is 4.30pm, and you have to catch the train home, and the banks are closed for the day. What do you do? There are no options ... you have to take the train and take the money home in the briefcase. Now - how do you hold the briefcase on the train? How do you walk with it ... what are you thinking about? Are you looking around to see who is near you or paying attention to you? How do you walk to the car in the train car park? Do you place the briefcase on the ground as you fumble with the door lock? The idea here, John, is that we can easily replace $20, or even $2000, so we don't get particularly anxious about it. But $70,000 would make us very careful, and $2 million? Well I wouldn't leave the office without bodyguards! The analogy is important to us as traders. And the level of our comfort changes with the risk. Yet the market does not know or care how much we have risked, or what is at risk for an individual. Why should the market care if you are trading 30,000 Microsoft, or 100? It is the same for me as a Forex trader. I trade the mini contracts, so one contract is $1 per pip. One pip is .0001 of $1, so it is highly leveraged by a factor of 10,000. I usually trade between $2 and $5 per pip (2 or 5 mini contracts). I can easily make 30 pips ... and if I am patient. I can make 100. So what is stopping me from trading at $50 or even $250 per pip? The answer is ... nothing ... except what is between my ears. In fact there are traders who would be taking the exact same trade, and doing those numbers. Why not me? We are so conditioned to think in terms of dollars, that we can not see the points or pips objectively. Our risk profile needs to be raised, but it has to be done carefully and securely. We do not want to turn into gamblers ... we need to be professional as a priority, and then work on our staking comfort zone. John, I am still struggling with this myself - I do not wish to blow another account, so I play around in the muddy, shallow waters of trading. I need to get out into the deeper, clearer water. Fear keeps me from doing what is necessary to take advantage of my strategy. I know it is making good pips, but fear stops me from exploiting it. Does that make sense? This is something I have to work on, and I probably also need a mentor/coach to get over. If there is a 'secret' to success, I think it can be found in this email to you, John. And having identified that (for myself) the task is laid out in front of me. If you ever make headway in this area, or have some good links to this kind of training, I would be pleased to hear about it. Finally, I think the content/substance of these emails back-and-forth would be very helpful to others. Originally I had intended to create a thread on Traders Laboratory, but had problems with time delay, in the queue as my posts were moderated. I decided not to wait, and just chatted with you via email. Would you have any objection if I paraphrased and edited these emails and posted the ideas on a thread on TL? I would not identify you. Instead, I would simply call you "John" without any other details about you, to avoid any embarrassment or bias towards you by other traders on the forum in the future. We all have our self-image to protect, and I respect that. There is quite a lot of stuff that should not be included - only the idea or substance. Kind regards Ivan

Jackb -sorry the video was too long at 55 minutes - was that the correct link? I am unsure whether all the deep breathing in the world would make a poor trader better. Although with all that nasty CO2 around these days, it can't hurt to add an extra .00002% oxygen to the mix! In my petty view, I suspect by the time traders realise that they are doing some heavy breathing/hyperventilation, they are already in too deep, and their breathing problems are only a symptom of the problem - not the cause. As someone who has made the study and application of physiology a part of my profession for the past 27 years, I can tell you people do not hyperventilate when things are going sweetly - only after they are in the can! To the layman, this might be one of those: "Oh! I know! That's why I'm failing - I'm not perfusing correctly!" But that line works only if you have an interest in breatharinism, or selling something to the masses who have no clue what you are trying to peddle. Of course a trader who is unused to taking a loss will freak out and experience diaphoresis (sweating) and breath-tightening etc as the sympathetic nervous system responds to stress. On the other hand, the parasympathetic nervous system works to calm the stress response of the body to a perceived threat. But what has this to do with trading?? Nothing - it is a beat up to capitalise on populist teaching - dazzling the uninitiated with medical and physiological science ... that if a trader is failing, it can't be his fault. Having said that, I agree with you that this is "not an absolute requirement or the only way to go." And while there may be a role in understanding parasympathetic responses to a perceived threat, and majoring on those strategies as a coping mechanism, this is not a universal panacaea for all traders who aren't kicking butt in the markets. Traders need to go into these kinds of theories with eyes wide open - regardless of who it is saying so. Beware the vested interest!

This is a pretty weak qualifier for "Strictly a Spectator Sport" thread, but good for laugh value. I notice all the "trader's excuses" coming out after the event There was also the "rebel competitor" who probably got a "margin call" and had a contract dispute! Sounds familiar! He did his own comp, as a protest - it wasn't clear, but think he got his hot-dogs from a "bucket shop." I was expecting the winner to be about 160kg, but I guess with his winning effort, he's well on his way! And there was a contest for the ladies too. Only in America... on 4th July ... looked like fun. Wonder will Nathan's survive the economy and be there for the people next year! No dogs were injured during the making of this video! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3UJFqix6P0]YouTube - ‪Chestnut is 2011 Hot Dog Champ - New York Post‬‏[/ame]

Thank you Tim Enjoyed the list - some good stuff in there for the future. Cheers

This one was sent by a friend ... very 'Australian' flavoured! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kpjnGWPmj0]YouTube - ‪Entrapment - Bill Kearns‬‏[/ame]

Notice how many times this brave contender for a Darwin Award crosses himself, before launching into his adventure! First seen on the Australian ABC news website Sunday, July 3, 2011 1:42 AEST and then found on Youtube. As you watch the replays further into the vid, notice how he becomes more daring - even performing aerobatic somersaults during more of his runs! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUy8Ve-d8Vg]YouTube - ‪Rollerblader reaches record heights‬‏[/ame]

OT - You may have already considered this, but it occurred to me that Williams %R may be an indicator that fits the criteria. It should also be universally available. Ingot

I have been searching for similar indicators that match all (or most) brokers platforms, and I have come across these developed by Johne Ehlers: TRADERS’ TIPS - October 2010 By clicking on the trading platform used (eg Tradestation or NinjaTrader) it will take you to a page illustrating the indicator as it appears on the platform. Then, but adjusting the setting, we should be able to get a very unambiguous, and uniform indication for any platform. The code is also given on the page appropriate for the platform. If the trading platform you or anyone uses is not represented, I am sure Google search will find it. In the chart below I have placed it beside the StochasticRSI for comparison. It is not perfect, but it does give unambiguous turning points - just not as definitive as the Stochastic RSI unfortunately. If you like this one and everyone is able to get it, then we should be able to get a chart match on all platforms, should Stochastic alone not provide the answer. I can upload the indicator for MT4 if needed. Just for consideration. Tweaking needed. Ingot

Appreciate what you are doing here Optiontimer - providing these charts and examples is a great help to illustrate the setups. I have found 5 StochasticRSI indicators for MT4 platforms on the Internet, but not all of them can be made to match the pattern of the one in use on your charts. That may be because of the platform I use having a different closing time for its daily bars, as well as having a Sunday night session included in the data. Not all platforms use the sunday night candle as a "daily" candle, but incorporate that session into the Monday data. I have uploaded the actual StochasticRSI Indicator below, and provided a chart illustrating how it looks, on the Daily GOLD chart attached. In the "Common" settings, I have changed the "Fixed minimum" from -5 to zero; And the "Fixed maximum" has been changed from 105 to 100. In the "Inputs" section, I have set the numbers to 7-7-9-0 from the default settings. I have experimented with other settings and this is the optimum I have found. Kind regards Ingot PS - I can upload the other StochRSI indies if anyone thinks they might be helpful, but they do not really resemble the indicator used by Optiontimer on his platform as well as the one I have used here Stochastic_rsi_forex-instruments.mq4

I am currently using Forex.com MT4 platform, and only in demo mode. My live trades are done with the Australian branch of IG Index - IG Markets. But I would not recommend Forex.com for live trades given that all, and I mean ALL of my trades have: * An undue pause prior to the response from their end (no, it is not my computer's latency) This pause can be up to 5 seconds sometimes. * 8 out of 10 trades are requoted * While watching price ticks on IG Markets streaming data, Forex.com data does not change. By that I mean I have seen prices change by up to 10 pips, before Forex.com data catches up. Usually prices are tick-for-tick but on occasions when I am very close to an entry, the forex.com platform appears unresponsive. In fact if I had not been stalking the price I wanted on the live platform of IG markets, I would occasionally have missed my entry by around ten pips. That to me is a warning - take your marbles and look for another game. Don't play with Forex.com

Hi PA18 Here is something that may be of assistance to you. If it fails to upload, you can download it yourself here at post #11: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-indicators/9336-mt4-indicators.html Kind regards Ingot range_bars_wlas_v09.zip

That has made the world of difference to how I see what is happening, OT - thank you. Had I actually made a couple of trades, it would have not been necessary to ask that question. But I am all the wiser for it (having asked.) Thanks again Ingot.

Thank you for your hard work OT - really appreciated. I am seeing that we have the long term trend established by the 65EMA, and the 21EMA gets us on the correct side of the trade. And I am seeing that the 7 period Stoch/RSI indicates to us what is happening on the shorter TF. That would explain why it is so responsive, and it is encouraging that the strategy seems really uncomplicated. I noticed that in my attached chart - a section of your GOLD chart from post #10 above - that although the trend continues up after a small pullback, the Stoch /RSI has had a sharp and persistent pullback. I don't have a problem with that, because I understand that what is happening on the lower TF may not be looking much like a trend at all, sometimes, and so we will get these signals that seem to conflict. My question is rather, what should we do about them? My first thoughts are to get out of the trade on the signal, whether we agree or not - ... just follow the plan. But then, a very large rally ensues, in which we are not taking part, because of loyalty to the signal. Is this something that will be overcome with practice and experience? The very worst thing a trader could do is have a good strategy, then second-guess that strategy. I don't have a problem with staying out of a trade that does not fit the criteria. But I want to understand all that I can about this, and I like what you are showing us. Thank you. Ingot

True words Siuya. The ABC had an interesting article this morning - no, not the one where the new treasury head said Australians must work harder - this one about Greece: Greece clears way for bailout - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Specifically poignant was this statement: But in the meantime, Greece will have sold off E5billion of Public Assets. Funny that a Socialist Government (like Greece has) "halted privatisation when it came to power" is now being forced to privatise again. Yet the Socialists in Queensland, and previously (before they were kicked out) NSW, were and are hell-bent on privatising - selling off assets like our railways and power stations, forestry plantations and the like. Who are the true socialists? Or is this just a matter of policy on the run - expediency when it suits? Is there a right and left, a right and wrong, anymore? Is the right of politics distinguishable from the left? Is the truth absolute? Or is it the Lawyers truth, the Banker's truth, the Politician's truth and the Economist's truth? Does any of it matter - or are we just in a game with a means to a planned end? One thing is certain in all of this, and that is the world is NOT a better place for all the intervention of the World Bank, Central bankers generally, or the IMF. And regardless of whatever is done, the world is not getting to be a safer, better, more affluent or desirable place, unless you have disposable income, no debt and no commitments. You see Greece today - then let's revisit this thread in 2 years time, and see who has been added to the list, and whether the action of bail-outs has been good for those countries or not. When did Government intervention actually make ANY situation better? To my list of Lawyers, Politicians, and Bankers, you can add Economists. Would you like to be in business with any or all of them? Good luck with that! No wonder half the world is on antidepressants - they don't help either - the people have just been told they do ... lol! The Russians have the right idea - produce more Vodka, and use it ... medicinally of course!

Excellent reply Siuya - moderates my angst a tad! I won't go on about it too much (I can be tedious) ... but this might be a good 10 minutes worth: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGeR0PPNx4k]YouTube - ‪Cine Politics-"Inside Job" directed by Charles Ferguson-20-26-2011-(Part1)‬‏[/ame]

No need for confusion ... but probably a need for me to illustrate what I intended to say a little more clearly. On the local/domestic scene, your deposits in your bank are actually a liability for them, so they have to get rid of cash, and "get it out there" into mortgages and infrastructure development projects (National Broadband Network was a godsend) earning interest. Under our fractional reserve banking system, your cash and my cash only interests banks for one reason - they can re-lend 10 times more than is deposited. If I "lend" my bank $40,000 by depositing cash at 6%, the bank can then lend that $40,000 10 times, and earn 8% on $400,000. So they earn $32,000 pa on their loans to clients ("assets", and pay me $2,400 interest. Of course, by the time they add their "loan establishment fees" and "account-keeping fees" the actual figures look much better for banks. Let's step out and about now, and over in Brussells, the banks have been lending rather heavily to one particular client ... Greece. Now while the interest payments are being met, the banks don't have problem ... and neither do the extrapolated form of domestic banks, the Bond markets. But the minute someone defaults on an interest payment, then hellooo ... someone has a problem. When you are owed as much as Greece owes, then it is not Greece that has the problem - it is the Bond holder. Personally I am on the side of the Greek people. I don't think they should pay. This was NOT of their making - any more than the sub-prime mortgage crash was of your making or mine. Collectively, you might build a case where the Greek people lived beyond their means - indeed - but who pushed them and who lent them that money? I concede that the people who are in trouble with debt have only themselves to blame. I have been warning my kids and my friends now for about 5 years, to work towards getting out of debt - totally debt-free. My kids are, and use debit cards, not credit cards. We all have to live within our means ... but that's another essay! But I blame politicians and bankers for the Greek mess. The blame lies squarely on their shoulders for making promises, getting into national projects and so on, that was far beyond the means of the country to pay. I think those who pushed the fractional reserve "funny money" onto the Greek people should be the ones to take the losses. Why should they be protected? When do the people ever get a win? Bond Investors are speculators ... why should they always win? If the crash is allowed to occur (a default) then rebuilding can go ahead, and pretty soon the pain is over, and people can get on with their lives as "normal" - raising and educating their kids and so on. If you think that is too hard to bear - just look at examples from the near past ... Russia, Argentina, Iceland ... Iceland Shows Default Doesn The sky did not fall because of a default - the debt disappeared. And if all of these countries default, then life will go on. In fact nothing will happen - the sun will rise tomorrow. The fact is that when there is a surplus of money, it has to find a home. And that "home" will be where there is a need to capitalise a project. Sometimes investors take a loss ... hey! ... get over it! The cycle resumes and continues. I belong in the camp of those who think that the GFC should have been allowed to run its natural course. Too many governments socialising the debts of their Wall Street (and other streets) mates, but privatising the profits. Either way, the people are the losers. Too willingly have we swallowed the line that the world would have collapsed into a gaping depression that would not end for years (think of your own number of years - the reporters did.) So yes, I think the Greek people deserve a little slack here. If they go ahead with this bailout and austerity measures, then they enslave themselves for the better part of this century - if not forever. No wonder they are fighting it. By the way, Greece owes LESS than some of the states of the USA! Why aren't these facts out in the headlines?? The truth is out there, but I lean towards a conspiracy ... yes ... it fits in with some sort of global domination plan. I don't like your scenario though ... remember what they say about absolute power, and corruption? Those "few hundred years of history" might sound benign to you, but remember there are people who lost their lives defending those arbitrary borders. They are not going to hand it over for a hand full of coloured beads to some far off global consortium who tells them the new world order has their best interests at heart. The ultimate goal is slavery, and nothing will make me waver from that belief. I like to follow trends, and the "trend" is NOT towards more freedom, is it? On that basis you might find me easy to dismiss with my odd beliefs, and that's ok too - I don't thrive because I am right, or shrink if I am wrong. I just never saw an honest banker, honest politician, honest lawyer ... and strangely, these are the very people who are shaping our future.

It's ironic, Siuya, but Greece, the so-called "Cradle of Democracy" has a very active Communist Party these days, and it is they who are whipping up hysteria against the austerity measures. And for good reason - for once, I happen to agree with the Communists. What Greeks are fighting for, is their very sovereignty. This is what happens when the Money Power gets control of politicians, and a country spends its way into irreversible debt. They say that it's ok - spend what you like - we'll loan it to you (through the beloved banks) - all you need to do is keep making interest payments. One day when the loans can be rolled over no more, and the partial payments no longer satisfy the debt interest, the Money Power begin to do what they are now doing in Greece - demanding their money. Those Greek politicians, bankers, financiers who organised to take on these loans (via the Bond Market capital raisings) are now feeling the pointy end of the stick. The piper is at the door, demanding to be paid. So the Greeks are being told that unless they pay up, certain things will happen. Only as the populace see it, nothing will happen, except they will be poorer. But for the politicians, they worry about being kicked out of the EU - oh! the ignominy! And the EU worries that it will lose cred, and that other countries (Spain, Italy, Ireland, Portugal - there are others too) will also get the boot. Can't have that, can we? So the German and French architects of the Eurozone group, along with their darling currency, are putting the screws on Greece, to ensure they prop up the first domino. If Greece falls, it means the Money Power - the lenders in the Bond Market - will take a savage haircut. And this will be the tip of the iceberg - the mother of all haircuts - as the Bond markets of all of Europe, and the USA collapse. Cheerful soul, aren't I? Could it be that there is an agenda behind all of this - one that the Greek people are rejecting? If Greece is forced to accept the bailouts, rather than taking the road to default and expulsion from the EU, then Greeks lose their sovereignty and freedom forever, because there is no way Greece can ever repay the interest, the principle or the bailout. They will lose their way of life. Is this what is in store for all of us? The USA is bankrupt - Britain too. In fact, if the nations of the world had to repay their loans by tonight, could any? So who is behind all of the Bond markets of the world and the cheap money ... The World Bank? Central Banks? The IMF? The Illuminati? The Bilderbergs? The Money Power? The faceless Mafioso of the world? China? Your shadow? When you stop laughing, there is something serious to face up to here, and that is that the sovereign nations of the world are in grave danger, and the path they are well advanced along, is the path to full globalisation and world government - the ultimate prize. The way they were white-anted ... money ... credit ... consumerism ... greed ... betrayal and treason ... I think we are truly looking at the end of an age here. This is why Austrlia is going downhill too - no one is awake in the wheel-house: http://tinyurl.com/3du8bbl This week the Australian Parliament passed into law, an act which allows the Australian Government to increase the foreign debt ceiling without explaining why. This is exactly the reason that Greece is in trouble today - the wanton spending and waste of public money, and the endless consumption of credit, that one day must be repaid. If a nation like Australia, with its vast agricultural land, its great fisheries, its endless mineral and energy resources, its magic tourism resources, and its stable political climate cannot exist without ratcheting up its debt levels during one of the biggest mining and resources booms of the past 200 years, then what hope have lesser nations who are producing nothing, and have no resources? The Greeks have every right to be angry, but what of Australians who - just 22 million of us - have a government who have squandered multiple billions of dollars, that could have been saved. Australians will one day be asking: "Is it going to be OK now?" Do YOU ever see yourself taking to the streets to defend Australia against such? I would ... I think!

Tams - that left me with a feeling that there is unfinished business here. But I think it was just me wanting to hear more of this stuff. So easy to listen to, and I just sat back, closed my eyes and soaked it up. Thanks for introducing me to this music, and I hope you post more good stuff. Cheers Ingot PS - heading back for a replay

Excellent post Tim- I am printing this out.

Good stuff to know ... Hello Ivan,,, Thanks so much for the well thought out and thought provoking e-mail. Its giving me much to think about and more important it is putting things in perspective as to "My Business" and how to run it. One of the most attractive aspects to trading is to have ones own business but as the employer and "sole" employee there can be no free passes or destruction will follow. One must be even more diligent in the duties, because while others in the business world would hold us accountable, we may have a tendency to bend many rules and not fire ourselves but ultimately blow our account. Very important, and I didn't think of things in that way. I read the articles on the "Flipper" and wonder if we as little guys have a chance these days? I have a question maybe you can answer ... Are there guys like us that can actually make a living doing this? Do you know anybody that makes a living trading stocks? Forex? I don't and have to say it worries me that this can even be done on a regular basis ... I think it can be learned and that with good discipline and knowledge of the markets even a small trader can be successful but I wonder ... I know the markets wont go away but wow ... just another worry I guess. You have given much to think about and have taken me in a very positive direction with good solid ideas and I see the other e-mail you sent me and will take some time and study that also. Thank you again as you are really helping me Kindest regards John ************************* ********************** Hello Ivan Just wanted to let you know that all 4 images showed up and are very readable. You have given me much to go over and study and I love that. You have truly made me think and even relax as I can stop searching. I think I needed someone to talk with and go over what I am doing and hear my thoughts and strategies and let me know that I am on the right track. I know there is no Holy Grail but I think you have let me know that my concepts are solid and are helping me smooth the rough edges and think like a trader. Trading is so isolating even with Skype buddies that I admit to much second guessing. I will always learn and be open to ideas but I think its finally sinking in about keeping it simple (not easy) and having a much needed plan. There are not enough Thank you's for your time with me. I will go over this material and in a few days I will contribute to your great thread. My name is (JohnX) on TL. ,,,,Again many Thanks Best Regards John ************************* ************************* HI John I am pleased if you have gotten even one little thing from our conversations. "Being a trader" sounded attractive to me before I really got into it. It was then addictive, because I had been a gambler on race horses before then - many years earlier. I had given it up, because that too, is pretty difficult, and is a corrupt industry anywhere in the world - in my view. The public are needed to keep the money flowing into the pockets of the owners and trainers, and of course, the book makers. There is a thin line between trading and gambling. I wrote about this on Salma's thread on Trader's Laboratory - http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...ling-9100.html and got a bit cranky with "Mighty Mouse" over his attitude - but after all, forums are only places where a point of view can be expressed. I should not have become so annoyed with him about it - but I guess my ideas are a bit too rigid sometimes. I later commended another of his posts in the Psychology section, I think it was, but he didn't pick up on it. Oh well. I do know of a trader who is making very good money - Davin Clark - - Trade4edge - | Davin Clarkes Trading tips, tools, information, resources Davin used to run traders information nights for free in my neighbourhood on the Sunshine Coast years ago. By the time I got to hear about them, he was winding them down, and I think the one I attended was actually the last one. I was a bit disappointed by that, because I was just getting into the serious learning part about trading. Before that I was just picking a stock that had good fundamentals and holding it for a few weeks. I was pretty green then. Davin was/is a surfer. He loves the ocean waves, and every day would do his trading, then go out surfing. He would be finished by 11.30am. The last I heard of him personally, he was paying over $300,000 just in brokerage for the first 5 months of 2006! There is a mention in this article about how he went from making $100,000 a year, to more than $800,000. ($15,000 a week). JustData.com.au » Journals » Stock Investor » Market Coach » Is It Really Possible? Today he still trades and runs workshops (in the USA). But people now pay large amounts to attend them. From his early psychology changes through working with Chris Shea, he certainly came a long way. Chris Shea is a market coach I went to twice, and he used to run workshops for traders over one weekend each year, for traders wanting to go to the next level. There was a special "invitation only" event, reserved for those who made a minimum $750,000 a year. This is Chris Shea's site. Have a look at the links: The Market Coach So it can be done. But what has to happen, is you have to change what you are doing now. If it doesn't work, then stop it. Search for what does work, and be prepared to pay for it. That is probably my best advice. I do know that finding a good mentor/coach will play the pivotal part in turning you from an ordinary trader, to a seriously successful trader. I do not think there is any short cut to that, unfortunately. I too need this kind of a lift. I have broken out of the rut to a degree, but I still haven't moved to 'wildly successful'. I am looking at the articles by Rande Howell on Traders Laboratory, and I know this I probably where I will receive a boost. I found this site last night when searching for answers for myself (yes - I am still seriously needing support too). Stock Trading Losers Anonymous | Elder There is food for thought there, and the conclusion is good. But the answer is still elusive. Telling people the Holy Grail is inside their own head may be nice, but it is not helpful. We all know we make silly decisions that affect our profitability, and a Coach can get those out of our systems. But what we really need, is to understand what it takes to move from where we are, into that super-league ... even a little bit. I do understand one concept, and I will share it with you in the next email. I tend to ramble on, and these letters get a bit lengthy. Kind regards Ivan