SIUYA

I would have thought as Germany is an exporting nation they would be happy to have a weaker Euro and be part of it.....a DM might not be wanted by Germany....it would be too strong until it causes them problems. and when it comes to states banding together and all the issues surrounding that.....my history recalls a place called the United States sort of comes to mind, and didn't they have a civil war over largely economic issues a few years back. The real issue with the Eurozone has been stated time and time again - until you have a system that controls both the spending and the taxation/collection/revenues part of the equation then you will have issues, as there is little disincentive apart from political and civil unrest to thumb your nose and spend other peoples money. The Greeks merely were irresponsible opportunists and did what many others probably wanted to do - because the system in place partly encouraged, and allowed them to do so. Just to throw something else into the mix - China - its made up of a centralised government and surrounding provinces.....who do you reckon holds the debt there, and who holds the assets???? and who would you rather be dealing with - the one who holds the assets or the debt. food for thought.

regards taking away the ability of a non tax paying voter.... IMHO - take such a suggestion to the extreme to see why if you wish to have a caring/fair/compasionate society, you really should never take away certain rights from anyone in that society. One of these rights in a democratic and free society is the right to vote. Why not say to people, for every percentage of your income that is paid in tax you get a vote, that way a 50% tax payer gets 50 votes, and a 10% tax payer gets 10 votes.....you might find more secretaries having more votes than their hedge fund managers What about companies - they (supposedly) pay taxes - do they get a vote too? and all their subsidiaries. (arguably Corporations help set policies via lobbying anyway - better than a vote, just make sure that you can buy who ever gets voted in ) and given that voting in the US is not enforced, and the rates of voter turnouts at elections is pretty poor - who is it that chooses not to vote when they are given the chance - it probably is already they poor folk who pay no taxes anyway! Ahhhh...the never ending quest for the perfect system.

If Men can fix anything, why cant we fix the current economic mess? Men can fix anything.docx

a couple of things required for the markets...depending on the day http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26470&stc=1&d=1319096931 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26476&stc=1&d=1319097240 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26477&stc=1&d=1319097240 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26478&stc=1&d=1319097240 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26479&stc=1&d=1319097240 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26480&stc=1&d=1319097240

Bob - "The 70s saw nothing. USA standing still" The 70s had Disco Fever - there was no way it was standing still !! On a lighter note - - stimulus woks for for a short period of time, whereas real policies for incentives (isn't that what the system thrives on) work over the long term....so in answer to the question...Will Stimulus Ever Work?....no.....just ask Japan.

its what happens when the dealers of the drug are in charge - government rather than being the 'regulators' of the market have always been one of the worst participants in allowing excessive leverage to occur - they now believe the hype and dont have the balls (except maybe that German chick ) to stop the rot - why would you - they would not control it when times were good, so why not just try the hail mary pass - they might get lucky.

Dont worry Rande......you should try trading for a living, its far more revealing I look forward to seeing the webinar

Tams - when I became a fat, bad, clutz - it became a joke....

………………… Dear Noah, We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5. Sincerely, Unicorns Dear Twilight fans, Please realize that because vampires are dead and have no blood pumping through them, they can never get an erection. Enjoy fantasizing about that. Sincerely, Logic Dear Icebergs, Sorry to hear about the global warming. Karma's a bitch. Sincerely, The Titanic Dear J.K. Rowling, Your books are entirely unrealistic. I mean, a ginger kid with two friends? Sincerely, Anonymous Dear America, You produced Miley Cyrus. Bieber is your punishment. Sincerely, Canada Dear Boyfriend, I can make your girlfriend scream louder than you can. Sincerely, Spiders Dear Voldemort, So they screwed up your nose too? Sincerely, Michael Jackson Dear Yahoo, I've never heard anyone say, "I don't know, let's Yahoo! it..." just saying... Sincerely, Google Dear girls who have been dumped, There are plenty of fish in the sea... Just kidding! They're all dead. Sincerely, BP Dear Mary, Just admit that you slept with someone else. This is getting out of hand. Sincerely, Joseph Dear 2010, So I hear the best rapper is white and the president is black? WTF happened?! Sincerely, 1985 Dear Justin Bieber, Ariel would really love her voice back. Sincerely, King Triton Dear Rose, There was definitely room on that raft for the both of us. Sincerely, Jack Dear Windshield Wipers, Can't touch this. Sincerely, That Little Triangle Dear Taylor Swift, If it is of any interest to you, Romeo and Juliet both kill themselves in the end. Sincerely, Shakespeare Dear Soccer Fans, B B B B B B Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z! Sincerely, Vuvuzelas Dear Saturn, I liked it, so I put a ring on it. Sincerely, God Dear Rubik's Cube, Done! Sincerely, Colorblind Dear Santa, Please tell me how you managed to stop at three Ho's. Sincerely, Tiger Woods Dear Boys Wearing Skinny Jeans, I. Can't. Breathe. Sincerely, Your Balls Dear Martin Luther King Jr., I have a dream within a dream within a dream within another dream... What now? Sincerely, Leonardo DiCaprio Dear Sleeping Beauty, I had to join the army, dress up like a man, defeat the hun army and totally save China for my man. All you had to do was wake up. Sincerely, Mulan Dear Romeo, My death isn't the only thing I've been faking... Sincerely, Juliet Dear Fox News, So far, no news about foxes. Sincerely, Unimpressed Dear Sex Educators, Abstinence is only 99.99% effective. Sincerely, The Virgin Mary Dear Toaster, Just gonna stand there and watch me burn? Sincerely, Toast Dear Edward, I really hope that one day, I can find my way into your heart. Sincerely, a stake Dear Prince Charming, You've got some explaining to do! Sincerely, Cinderella, Snow White, Rapunzel and Sleeping Beauty ……………………………….

‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’ Europe's problems summed up: Pythagorean theorem: 24 words Lord's prayer: 66 words Archimedes' Principle: 67 words Ten Commandments: 179 words Gettysburg address: 286 words US Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words US Constitution with all 27 Amendments: 7,818 words EU regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words ‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’ All you brokers out there could learn a lesson from this guys real brokerage report.................. Report - Index Futures Daily Review Aug 26th 2011 -- RQFII added confidence to market and financial sector led the rally After today's rally, the atmosphere of cautious investors on market would limit the rebound to amplify. Besides, the current market still have possibility of bearish trend, and the uptrend of July pork price performed again thus the adamant of its price is not a tendency drop which would ignite investors' concern of inflation. What's more, market is expected to have concerns about QE3, so the continued rise in short-term is not likely to occur, but affected today's rally, tomorrow market may be open high. The spot-futures basis has maintained negative today, which arbitragers continue to wait for chance. ‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’

Random selections from cleaning up emails..... ......................... The stock market is like a strapless bra... half the people are wondering whats holding it up.....??? whereas the other half are waiting for it to drop so that they can grab an opportunity. ............................. Elton John will perform at Amy Winehouse’ s funeral with a beautiful rendition of Candle Under The Spoon. Can all those mourners outside Amy Winehouse’s home please form a line? It’s what she would’ve wanted. What was Amy Winehouse’s biggest hit? Her last one! McDonalds have released the Amy Winehouse McValue Meal. Just Coke and Ice. Congrats to Amy Winehouse! She has been sober for 24hrs. Amy Winehouse, Kurt Cobain, Jimmi Hendrix, Ian Curtis, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin all died at 27. Justin Bieber turns 27 in 2021. Just be patient. Amy Winehouse seriously should’ve known where to draw the line, I guess on the coffee table wasn’t such a good idea. She probably should’ve went to rehab but she said noo noo no. ........................... > 1. Law of Mechanical Repair - After your hands become coated with grease, your > nose will begin to itch and you'll have to pee. > > 2. Law of Gravity - Any tool, nut, bolt, screw, when dropped, will roll to the > least accessible corner. > > 3. Law of Probability -The probability of being watched is directly proportional > to the stupidity of your act > > 4. Law of Random Numbers - If you dial a wrong number, you never get a busy > signal and someone always answers. > > 5. Law of the Alibi - If you tell the boss you were late for work because you > had a flat tyre, the very next morning you will have a flat tyre. > > 6. Variation Law - If you change lines (or traffic lanes), the one you were in > will always move faster than the one you are in now (works every time). > > 7. Law of the Bath - When the body is fully immersed in water, the telephone > rings. > > 8. Law of Close Encounters -The probability of meeting someone you know > increases dramatically when you are with someone you don't want to be seen with. > > 9. Law of the Result - When you try to prove to someone that a machine won't > work, it will. > > 10. Law of Biomechanics - The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to > the reach. > > 11.. Law of the Theater and Sporting Arena - At any event, the people whose > seats are furthest from the aisle, always arrive last. They are the ones who > will leave their seats several times to go for food, beer, or the toilet and who > leave early before the end of the performance or the game is over. The folks in > the aisle seats come early, never move once, have long gangly legs or big > bellies, and stay to the bitter end of the performance. > The aisle people also are very surly folk > > 12. The Coffee Law - As soon as you sit down to a cup of hot coffee, your boss > will ask you to do something which will last until the coffee is cold. > > 13. Murphy's Law of Lockers - If there are only two people in a locker room, > they will have adjacent lockers. > > 14. Law of Physical Surfaces - The chances of an open-faced sandwich landing > face down on a floor, are directly correlated to the newness and cost of the > carpet or rug. > > 15. Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you > are talking about. > > 16. Brown's Law of Physical Appearance - If the clothes fit, they're ugly. > > 18 Wilson's Law of Commercial Marketing Strategy - As soon as you find a product > that you really like, they will stop making it. > > 19. Doctors' Law - If you don't feel well, make an appointment to go to the > doctor, by the time you get there you'll feel better. But don't make an > appointment, and you'll stay sick. > > ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ……………………… It was entertainment night at the Senior Citizens Center. Claude the hypnotist explained: "I'm here to put you into a trance; I intend to hypnotize each and every member of the audience." The excitement was almost electric as Claude withdrew a beautiful antique pocket watch from his coat. "I want each of you to keep your eyes on this antique watch. It's a very special watch. It's been in my family for six generations." He began to swing the watch gently back and forth while quietly chanting, "Watch the watch, watch the watch, watch the watch..." The crowd became mesmerized as the watch swayed back and forth, light gleaming off its polished surface. A hundred pairs of eyes followed the swaying watch until, suddenly, the chain broke; it slipped from the hypnotist's fingers and fell to the floor, breaking into a hundred pieces. "SHIT!" said the hypnotist. It took three days to clean up the Senior Citizens Center. Claude was never invited back. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' A little boy comes down to breakfast. Since they live on a farm, his mother asks if he had done his chores. " Not yet, " said the little boy. His mother tells him no breakfast until he does his chores. Well, he's a little teed off, so he goes to feed the chickens, and he kicks a chicken. He goes to feed the cows, and he kicks a cow. He goes to feed the pigs, and he kicks a pig. He goes back in for breakfast and his mother gives him a bowl of dry cereal. " How come I don't get any eggs and bacon ? Why don't I have any milk in my cereal ? " he asks. " Well, " his mother says, " I saw you kick a chicken, so you don't get any eggs for a week. I saw you kick the pig, so you don't get any bacon for a week either. I saw you kick the cow so for a week you aren't getting any milk. " Just then, his father comes down for breakfast and kicks the pussy cat halfway across the kitchen. The little boy looks up at his mother with a smile, and says, " You gonna tell him or should I ? " ''''''''''''''''''''''''''' The teacher said, "Let's begin by reviewing some American history. Who said 'Give me Liberty , or give me Death'?" She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Little Hodiaki a bright foreign exchange student from Japan, who had his hand up: 'Patrick Henry, 1775', he said. 'Very good!' Who said, 'Government of the People, by the People, for the People, shall not perish from the Earth?' Again, no response except from Little Hodiaki, 'Abraham Lincoln, 1863'. 'Excellent!', said the teacher continuing, 'let's try one a bit more difficult...' Who said, 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?' Once again, Hodiaki's was the only hand in the air and he said: 'John F. Kennedy, 1961'. The teacher snapped at the class, 'Class, you should be ashamed of yourselves, Little Hodiaki isn't from this country and he knows more about our history than you do.' She heard a loud whisper: 'F . . k the Japs,' 'Who said that? I want to know right now!' she angrily demanded. Little Hodiaki put his hand up, 'General MacArthur, 1945.' At that point, a student in the back said, 'I'm gonna puke.' The teacher glared around and asks, 'All right! Now who said that!?' Again, Little Hodiaki said, 'George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister, 1991.' Now furious, another student yelled, 'Oh yeah? Suck this!' Little Hodiaki jumped out of his chair waving his hand and shouted to the teacher, 'Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, 1997!' Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, 'You little shit. If you say anything else, I'll kill you.' Little Hodiaki frantically yelled at the top of his voice, "Michael Jackson to the child witness testifying against him, 2004.' The teacher fainted. As the class gathered around the teacher on the floor, someone said, 'Oh shit, We're screwed!' Little Hodiaki said quietly, 'The Australian Rugby team, 2011.' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Blue Line Jumps 11 Percent NEW YORK–Excitement swept the financial world Monday, when a blue line jumped more than 11 percent, passing four black horizontal lines as it rose from 367.22 to 408.85. Blue-Line Composite Index It was the biggest single-day gain for a blue line since 1994. "Even if you extend the blue line's big white box back many vertical lines, you won't find a comparably large jump," said Milton Vogel, a senior analyst with Merrill Lynch. "That line just kept going up, up, up." The blue line, which had been sluggish ever since the red line started pointing down in April, began its rebound with an impressively pointy 7 percent rise Friday. By noon Monday, it had crossed the second horizontal line from the top for the first time since December. Ecstatic investors are comparing the blue line to the left side of a very tall, steep blue mountain. "It's a really steep line," said Larry Danziger, a San Jose, CA, day trader and golf enthusiast. "I stand to make a tremendous amount of money as a result of the steepness of this line." Wall Street traders react to the blue line's 41-point leap. "It looks like the line's about to shoot out of the box," said Boston-area investor Michael Lupert, enjoying a glass of white zinfandel on the bow of his 30-foot yacht. "I'm definitely going to keep a close eye on this line as it continues to move to the right." Despite such bullishness, some financial observers are urging caution. "Given this line's long history of jaggedness, we really should take a wait-and-see approach," Fortune magazine associate editor Charles Reames said. "And even if this important line continues its upward pointiness, we must remember that there are other shapes, colors, numbers, and lines to consider when judging the health of the economy." A group of white men makes cell-phone calls to discuss the blue line. Reames also warned that the upward angle of the line, which most analysts agreed was approximately 80 degrees, may have been exaggerated by the way the graph was drawn. "The stuff that's written along the bottom of the graph is all squished together, making the line look a lot more impressive than it is," Reames said. "Had that same stuff been spread out more, the line would have looked a lot less steep." Still, most U.S. investors found it hard to contain their enthusiasm as the blue line shot up sharply, outperforming the green line, the yellow line, and even the thriving dotted purple line. "Typically, the blue line rises or falls no more than 10 in a day," said Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Dr. Jeffrey Gruber. "But Monday, it went up an astonishing 41–and during a time when we have a big red slice showing on our pie charts, no less. We live in a truly remarkable time."

video clip to help make you think about who you are. Are you a real cowboy.wmv

it may have been shown before, but these series are a good laugh [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lpWoESHUM&feature=related]Tell me why you want to become a trader - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx4poQw1mZo&feature=youtube_gdata_player]I want to work at Goldman Sachs - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW-67dLgazg&feature=related]I Want To Be An Investment Banker - xtranormal - YouTube[/ame]

interesting discussion between gosu and Rade If I could weigh in with a few opinions as food for thought. Rande - I think one of the problems a lot of traders have from a psychological aspect has absolutely nothing to do with "demons", it has more to do with - as Gosu touched on - previous methods of learning and approaching problems. The reward for being right v wrong, as opposed to just accepting trading is more than this. (I have seem some socially mentally flawed people - with plenty of demons - who are pretty good traders , possibly because they are physcos) I would agree with the view that while everyone can be taught, some people are sadly just not equiped and either due to a lack of adequate mental facilities, desires, or a simple mis wiring then their struggle will only get them to just good enough, maybe they are too much the bleeding heart.....and here I think the point is - just good enough is not enough. While being the best may not be everyones grand plan, just being good enough will not work either. You need to take trading (and in the wedinars case, the mental aspects of it) seriously enough to be way better than the average - especially if the 90-95% failure rate is to be believed. All parties understand you need to be committed to this if you wish to make it a profession, and the hardest thing to understand is that what works and is successful in the "real world" is not what is required in the trading world.....and so comparing the ideas of giving back (from the point of a billionaire ) and a lot of other socially nice/feel good personal growth issues often misses the point - there is nothing about feeling good and doing the socially responsible thing when trading - what you do after you make it are different things.....and while we can understand it is a lot about the money narrative, using billionaries as an example after they have made it is IMHO not going to help a struggling trader.

gosu - I think you make some valid points, however if it is transparent, open to anyone to apply, free and all it will take is some time then whats the harm? Most traders have wasted far more time on much worse things. The argument that you need to be a master at something before teaching others does not wash - some people are just good at teaching, and not so good at doing - many who are good at doing are actually really poor teaches.....and in this case if i understand it correctly (in a general sense) Rande is offering his skills/expertise not in trading, but in how to help people temper/overcome/control those fears - however they manifest - this may be applicable in many areas. I for one would be interested in applying but am taking an extended break from trading at present as I have moved countries and want to relax and do something different for a while. Offering trading experience from memory in such a webinar - without real time feedback is a waste of time.....for me and the other participants. So while I may be a skeptic and more than happy to question things, for me it will still be interesting, and it seems a great trade - apply for something, it costs nothing but a bit of time, it might help tremendously and if not then so what. Too many complain about vendors who are not open, transparent, wanting money before showing what they can do, not independently evaluated (Zdo seems pretty independent) - this seems like a good idea that covers a lot of the compliants......as for Randes motivation - who cares - if its to generate more clients - then he is a fully disclosed vendor, if its through his own personal interest - all good. He is actually taking the risk here... I would have to agree as Zdo says...."Regardless of current experience and performance levels - those who man up and avail themselves of this opportunity will be glad they did in the long term."

like everything - it will be reported and obvious in hindsight.

Zdo - a good little paragraph. thanks. I thought the part just above where you highlighted was particularly apt... "However, even for highly intelligent people—or perhaps most dangerously for intelligent people, they wish to trade or invest (and in poker too!) in some deterministic universe where the proper course of action is always clear-cut and logical. On the other hand the average person wants to always be right, and desperately seeks a formula that is reliable with an unreasonable degree of accuracy. They spend most of their time seeking new gurus or indicators that will solve their problems, and unfortunately tend to select what has worked best in a regime that is already past its prime. As a consequence, they are always behind the curve, and lose with an incredibly high frequency." Even when experienced (I have and I assume others have as well at various stages ) fallen into the trap of trying to seek a reliable formula with an unreasonable degree of accuracy...... While continual searching and head banging frustration of challenges can be an enjoyable task for some.....it can also be unnecessary and often detrimental to the process of being profitable maybe.

I think also this is the difference between a good setup verses a trade trigger. Often people think they are one and the same, but I think a god setup can be a whole series of events prior to any real trigger. This also relates a lot to making sure you have a theory/philosophy for how the market works that makes sense. If you dont know how a market works - or at least how you think it works - then its hard to be able to identify why and when its likely to do something AS PART OF YOUR THEORY.......then you can work out how best to profit from it. (eg; While many out of the box systems have similar triggers and entry styles, often they dont have a rationale for the market that you can truly believe in. IMHO, while I dont need to know how a chainsaw works to use it, if used incorrectly, that lack of knowledge can be dangerous if it goes wrong) Absolutely. Often there is a lot to be said about knowing thyself (thanks Zdo) For some people realising their greatest strength might be knowing when to do nothing. Just because something is challenging does not mean its profitable and time well spent. the chellenge might be enjoyable, worthwhile pursuing for the challenge but ultimately not necessary to succeed. Also I think that the word wrong is interesting.......are the conditions wrong, or is the personality/mindset not appropriate/conducive to the conditions???? Anyone can be taught to read..... but some people become good readers, some only read certain styles, some read fast, or slow, some read every word, some read the context. others dont like it all, some are just bad at it for various reasons.....but the words on the page dont change for any of the players. So in terms of identifying changing market conditions, ultimately that is what we are all trying to do, and then we need to identify how best to profit from that. food for thought.

I have used SC and loved it for all the reasons given. BUT I would say that unless you wish to really learn the system and all that it offers then it can be frustrating and hard work as there is a lot there. Its not a simple system that is made for simple charting. Its a powerful and flexible system at a great price. If you are not going to get into the most of this system then an easier system to grasp may be worthwhile.....if you can find it for the great price SC comes at. Basically if you like the SC its unlikely you will switch to something else unless SC just does not offer something you need.

I also think this direction of questioning takes into more than just the simple - do i trend trade or mean revert. As others have brought up..... It raises a lot more questions with regards time frames, associated entry and exit levels - (when trading with the trend are you looking to enter/exit against the trend ???, so are you a trend follower, or a mean reverter sticking with the overall trend), how wide stops are etc etc..... IMHO a massive, massive aspect is the personal mentality and ability to either change with the market, or wear the various mental gymnastics associated with various types of styles. Given most traders cannot seem to master one style its seems an extra leap to ask many to try and master many. Personally I have tried to be as flexible and maleable as possible, however rather than the head bashing frustration this usually implies of changing with the market, I have found it easiest to stick to one style and modify my entries.....ie; if I think the trend is down I only enter shorts, these will depend on then the next question - should I enter shorts on breaks or rallies, are these then with tight stops or given a little more room. The exits are largely based on these questions with the default to let it ride....again this works when being more than a day trader The other key thing that I find helps is to separate styles and accounts...if you wish to trade longer term with the occasional short term scalps, open a new account....dont cheat and lean on one style at the expense of the other.....its too easy to kid yourself.

thanks MM, as every country is different you never know. What I have is a structure that is a family trust and utililises a number of companies. None of them are used to circumnavigate taxes, but they allow for distribution of profits to various family members, are easily transferable (no equity issues such as those when dealing with companies shares) and flexible, and in the unhappy event of my demise, the entity exisits without me and without onerous taxation and ownership issues. This is only applicable when dealing with enough money to make it worth while for the added accounting and setup costs of course. If just using a simple brokerage account, again depending on different jurisdictions, an executor of a will should be able to access the proceeds much the same as any account. When it comes to what to do with regards actual open positions and closing them out and going to cash, there is a combination of stops in place, but also I have a friend (one I trust implicitly and also understands markets) who can get access to my trading platform (not my cash just in case he develops a crazy gambling habit ) to close things out for me. After that the executor of the estate can look after it. It should be a part of a trading plan - all part of treating it like a business, with documented processes that anyone can follow.

FYI - just moved countries....now in the UK, and I have had zero positions for the last 5-6 weeks.....which unfortunately means i have actually missed the EURUSD demise I think Avarice, for this project, you show what you can achieve when following such a strategy and when you add the additional element of "sensible pyramiding" when it works it is easy money..... not the 100% returns per month, but the good returns on a scalable chunk on money. Once set up properly again, I aim to be following this style more regularly and moving away from day trading (not really for me at this stage), so I hope to be contributing again.

not sure about US laws but family trusts may be a better option.

[quote=Tams;127558 Never say never when it comes to trading. There are rocket scientists out there who can dream of things we can't even fathom. very true...just as there are simpletons that can trade as they dont need to over complicate things On the point of randomness and trading.... IMHO this is where the real test for being able to run profits and cut losses can be vital, as even randomly generated numbers can appear to trend.