SIUYA

.....for longer term trading. For shorter term trading how relevant are the longer term levels (clearly relevant as to what the market might do when reaching these levels, but if you are trading short term swings, then maybe the longer term is less relevant. That is not to say reliable.....as we all know nothing in trading is that reliable I think matching the correct tool for the job, the correct time frame for what you are trying to do and the style/strategy you are trying to implement successfully is whereby you need to match items such as long term signals/price action with the short term movements you might be trying to capture. The long term might give the context in which to best implement the short term strategy. eg; it might not make a lot of sense to take even short term longs on a breakout strategy, when after a bullish run of a few days is at or near old highs. It might be best to wait for a pullback or consolidation of some kind first, and the strategy maybe best changed to looking to buy support - or shorting false/failed long breakouts

i came across this one in the Sydney morning herald..... "A Polish man has burnt the side of his head while doing housework after mistaking the iron for a phone. Tomasz Paczkowski, from the northern Polish town of Elblag, is now swathed in bandages after his wife asked him to help with the housework while he enjoyed a few days off work. "My wife had gone to work," the 32-year old told the Polish newspaper Fakt. "After breakfast I started to work. I turned on the boxing channel on the TV, opened a beer and started ironing. "I was really getting involved in the boxing and was not really thinking about what I was doing. Advertisement "Suddenly the phone rang and I mucked things up. "Instead of grabbing the receiver I picked up the iron and put it to my ear." Mr Paczkowski said a burning sensation on his ear soon made him realise his mistake. To compound his misfortune, he hit his head on a door frame while dashing to the bathroom to cool his burn with water. He suffered an injury just above the left eye. Mr Paczkowski said he would give up watching boxing on the television but would continue to iron. ....................... the fascinating thing is that he is giving up watching the boxing, but NOT giving up the beer after breakfast.

A guy asked a girl in a library: ''Do you mind if I sit beside you?'' The girl replied with a loud voice: ''I DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE NIGHT WITH YOU!'' All the students in the library started staring at the guy; he was embarrassed. After a couple of minutes, the girl walked quietly to the guy's table and said: ''I study psychology and I know what a man is thinking. I guess you felt embarrassed, right?'' The guy responded with a loud voice: ''$500 FOR ONE NIGHT? THAT'S TOO MUCH!'' All the people in the library looked at the girl in shock. The guy whispered in her ear: ''I study law and I know how to make someone feel guilty.''

I for one thought it was bitterly disappointing when I did not implode a few seconds ago when the clock ticked through 12:12:12 on the 12-12-2012 (the last repetitive sequence this century so i am told) no relationship to Gann or his value.

I think its a good article (and even if the MA is BS - if it is better than the current management of a trader then it has value - so long as the trader understands it limitations) Once again it is the old sayings that often get repeated because there is value in them..... 1...do your homework 2...stick to your plan (dont micro manage - even if you have to use a MA as a trick to do that) 3...let your profits run (in fact get rid of profit targets - see if that makes a difference) 4...do more of those things that work for you and less of those that dont 5...review what you do, what you want to do and what effect these actions are having on your trading If you are not doing these things, then there is probably the problem. You will never run a position if you cant help but meddle no matter the homework, but if your meddling actually would make money because you happen to be a good scalper and good at picking levels - well then become a scalper - dont force yourself to do something that does not suit you. How will you know this, by looking again at 4 and 5 If you are very good at getting on good turning points on the market and hopeless at running it because you meddle - think hard about giving the levels to someone else to manage.....a MA or trendline, or even watching the price action wont help you if you are a meddler. OR really work out that you need to change, accept that and so a self help course. Your trading is fine, its you that is not. ) For sweet and sour - for trade management..... Accept the trade offs that come with each strategy - if you let things run, you will give up profits, your win loss ratio will probably decline, you will have to run positions over more than a day, your brokerage costs will probably go down, you will have many regrets when you think you might have made extra money doing something differently (who knows), you might have a few big wins but they dont satisfy your needs..... Why make it hard on yourself if you dont accept the cons and the pros with varying styles of trade management - regret (and yes i have a few thanks Frank) is a wasted emotion. I am reading a new book by Robert Greene - Mastery ..... nothing exciting or new in it, but its a good read none the less, but it is one of those things that reminds you you have to go through the apprenticeship of learning to get to mastery - if thats the only thing of value from the book. ---- all maybe getting off topic, but hey - we are talking about changing your trading career and plus i have plenty of spare time at the moment.

When it comes to war mongers and such from any side - most of these people are 'orchestrating the PR' more than the operations. They are more likely extremists themselves who manage to view an opportunity to push their own ideas, and at the same time they think whats wrong with making some money at the same time...... There usually is not a single truth or catalyst that caused something but as they say the biggest casualty to war is truth. Ingot as an aside to this - --- this might be interesting to you Japanese history textbook controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia My wife lived in Japan and was constantly amazed when many of her Japanese friends did not think many of the atrocities occurred, and where amazed when they found out.....its the deliberate re-writing of history on any side winner or looser.

It would be hard to think there is not a difference. What those differences are and what effect they may have in trading is debatable and probably not worth anyones time debating without serious study as to if the differences are general and worth while Here is some old interesting articles you might like to explore. Japan’s fearless women speculators - FT.com http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/business/worldbusiness/16housewives.html?pagewanted=all

york id - nothing new there - Oz is as disappointing as the next place as most of the same issues occur elsewhere re the environment, politicians and the press (thank god for the internet - a lot has to do with poulation size - another depressing thing is the lack of variety in consumer goods, and dont get me started on our fashion sense - its appallingly bad), and Tim Flannery is a bit of an alarmist. (Mid night oil - i forgot about them they are depressing) The environment like everywhere on the planet is definately being degraded and in such a fragile land the effects are exacerbated. A lot of that is a direct result of the importation of farming practices from the UK, and perpetuated today. We all wonder WTF Australia is wasting its water on cotton and rice crops for :doh: But you then let the cat out of the bag - Brisbane - or Brisvegas as its locally known in the early 1990s - OMG! - you are lucky you didn;t neck yourself. You were in redneck heaven with Joh ruling the state finally finished, XXXX being the only drink apart from a bit of Sherry for the girls, and the idea that for locals Queensland was the only place worth living in the world - even my Qland friends shake their heads at some of their fellow men.

dont take it as a criticism from me, or your comment to Option timer - i was agreeing with you - you always point out the ES is not the best for breakouts, and so you just need to find the right tool - and when i say miss matches - it was more along the lines of - if you are short term day trading, then the long term up trend may provide context, but an oversold indicator may not be the right tool - for swing trading maybe, but intra day - is it oversold from what? - the open, the high, relative to the daily (but you are intraday) thats all inidcators IMHO are certainly market specific, and market type specific. Why I try not to use them really - its too tempting to try and fit things into what you want as opposed to what is happening.

given Yorkid is from Scotland my guess might be that the alcohol is not cheap in Oz, or the sunshine burns his skin too much Seriously though I can understand why a lot of people think aspects of Australia are depressing. (and I am an Australian of Scottish heritage ) It is often described as a cultural backwater if you dont think of sport as having any cultural significance. It certainly has issues with thinking its the best and only place in the world to live (maybe there is something in that) and the ignorance associated with that can be a little depressing. Mind you every country has their own elements and versions of rednecks. the insects certainly suck, and in certain parts of the country you cant venture into the water due to the dangerous creatures (that can be depressing at a beautiful spot with no swimming due to crocodiles signs. The skiing in winter is pathetically poor, the beaches dangerous if you dont learn how to swim or read rips properly. It has a chronic binge drinking culture that can be depressing (but so does all of the UK) It is a long way from the rest of the world which is one complaint everyone has - what they fail to realise is that that is also a great thing about it - otherwise the hoards of people there would spoil many good aspects of it. You might have to travel 6 hours for a good party - but that just shows commitment to the cause. The people can be completely inappropriate, politically incorrect and insensitive - but i would prefer this to the hidden racism, fear of upsetting groups and hidden hatreds and underlying bigotry in other countries. (see redneck comments above but this is different IMHO) Its usually too hot in summer and the houses are poorly built for insulation, the bushfires ravage the land followed by floods and other natural disasters that are part of the natural landscape (whats depressing about mother nature at its best) It produces neighbours and home and away - yes they are depressing and yet for some reason loved in the UK. The politicians like everywhere are corrupt, incompetent and useless, but it has a stable political system that despite some hiccups is pretty good by world standards. Every country has its downsides, often as a result of the upsides. Personally I love aspects of the place and those who find it depressing are more than free to leave - what more do you want. For those that embrace it, depressing is not very often used.

dont worry i am playing devils advocate more than anything even though i do side on my side of the discussion. For me the real tragedy becomes one of the blame game, mob mentality and then having nothing constructive come out it........ This is an interesting one - is information about a public figure private information, or is it only public when they release it as their own PR. Does the public have a right to know as much information about their future royal leader - i mean the royals work for their subjects right? Does the hospital have a legal obligation not to reveal information or is it just properly accorded discretion of a patients right to some privacy in a sensitive matter. the information given by a different nurse was hardly sensitive..... "Another nurse then told them: “She’s sleeping at the moment and she has had an uneventful night and sleep is good for her. “She’s been given some fluids to rehydrate her because she was quite dehydrated when she came in but she’s stable at the moment.” The nurse added: “She hasn’t had any retching with me since I’ve been on duty and she has been sleeping on and off. I think it’s difficult sleeping in a strange bed as well.” .................... Am I wrong so far? The intention (a prank ... or to to steal further property) is only considered by a court in determining the severity of the sentence - the fact of the crime remains. A conviction might be recorded with a probation or no penalty yada yada. yes, but the unintended consequences of people calling for manslaughter charges, or worse means you are still in the same boat - you cant have it both ways. These guys will likely loose their jobs, and feel responsible for the rest of their lives. That will be pretty bad as it is I am sure. I bet they did not even think it would happen other wise why would they have done it.... They will pay for the consequences and if you then feel that the punishment does not fit the consequences then that is a different matter - you cant call it a crime as yet. The world is full of unintended consequences - get used to it. There needs to consequences for actions but mob rule, emotional responses and outrage to certain offences is not what society needs. (remember the outrage over certain videos in certain parts of the world that resulted in people dying even though they had nothing to do with the video itself.) Lets not use an incident do show outrage at comedy you dont like. To voice that you are outraged is fine - to accuse people of crimes, call for manslaughter charges and other such things is not voicing an opinion on your outrage, you are offering a solution without assessing the consequences......how many medical professionals are charged with manslaughter every year v how many errors occur in hospitals. We dont want the blame game (which unfortunately society seems to be heading down) to get out of control and way laid. (Fat people outrage me, but i dont think they should be forced into fat camps) That sounds like - Personally as I dont have children I think they should not waste tax payers money on such children shows on TV. ..... its part of the package - I would prefer such drivel to die a natural death of unpopularity rather than be hounded off the air because of people not liking the humour. There is always the off button, and as for your taxes - i can think of a lot more things that they are wasted on. anyways.....it raises a lot of questions, possibilities and issues that black swan events usually do.

There are also the points that often get missed when using an indicator - even when these points are made time and time again. You need to match the tool to the job - if your time frame is so small any lag time becomes that important - its probably not the right tool for the job. If the time frame is too small to capture an indicated move, you could also extend the time frame in order to get the appropriate follow through. Just because it looks good, does not mean its the best tool for the job. In your example you have a few missmatches - the longer term trend, waiting for confirmation for a short term counter trend move to have finished, the fact you know this is unlikely candidate for such a strategy......almost knowing this wont work but people try and make it work regardless.

at least they have some history behind them --- its a bit more palatable than the Kardashians :haha: - and I am a republican (not necessarily in the US political sense)

First its a tragic result of what started out as a practical joke, whereby the consequences were certainly unintended, and if you listen to the actual transcript appears to be a long shot that actually came off. i had a discussion on this with some friends last night.....it does raise some interesting dilemmas/questions. For me too often these matters get blown out of proportion and the real issues or remedy does not appear as too many people look for scapegoats or the blame game. As I see it - the DJs job is to do generally inane, silly pranks, pointless discussions and such. They are not some high end intellectual discussion group, they are light entertainment. As such this is the exact thing they are expected to do. In this case they did not even think they would get through, then get put through, or then even get a response other than - sorry we dont give out personal information like that over the phone. Hence it was one of those things that just happen....the perfect storm for a prank. At this stage, surely the person who monitors the program as I thought they usually have a delay button to stop swearing, or other such things - this was when they step in and say - sorry gone too far...this should not have happened. "The prank call was pre-recorded and vetted by lawyers before being broadcast to listeners in Sydney. (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-middleton-prank-call-receptionist-1478123) Equally so - the hospital never should have said anything other than "sorry we dont give out that information" How many of us have had the hassle of trying to get information over the phone only to get this response? I think this is very different to driving at excessive speed, firing guns in the air etc that might lead to manslaughter charges - and certainty hope we dont go into a world whereby any action might lead to manslaughter charges should something go wrong.... eg; a man cannot pay off his mortgage and his business goes bust - he commits suicide - let us charge anyone related to giving him the mortgage, who pulled their customer account from his business etc; Drawing a long bow of course - but the point is the same - calling for manslaughter charges in this instance does nothing to help anyone, and only inflames the situation with more emotion. If everyone committed suicide due to embarrassmnet we would not survive long as a species - unfortuantely this lady might have had other issues in her life. OR untill they determine the cause of death it may have been a mistake of her own of taking too many sleeping pills, or anti depressants - we dont know and should not speculate as to who is too blame until the facts are revealed. We also then have the role of the British media - did the embarrassment come from the prank itself or the outrage of the invasion of privacy and the lack of proper process revealed by the prank. What about the role of the social media allowing this to be broadcast around the world..... Even on a CNN report "But Prince Charles himself joked about the incident after being contacted by the radio station. News of the prank was also widely shared on social networks, with at least 5,000 links created and shared between Tuesday and Thursday. At the time, royal commentator Robert Jobson said he did not believe the radio call had been intended as a serious invasion of privacy." Would the embarrasment have been the same, or the media response been the same had the patient been a politicians wife, or a footballers wife as opposed a royal?? While the end result is a tragic end, I hope we dont continue down the path the world seems to be going, of mob rule, rules for some and not others etc;....Ingot, and all those who send the hate mail to the DJs - -should we charge you with manslaughter if one of those DJs becomes so depressed they then kill themselves?

donchian (or HHV LLV channels) Price Occasionally moving average - but i generally find it distracting

so we are all doomed - tick. Assuming this..... Any solutions for the individual you might offer if the status quo continues - apart from revolution and the other rubbish that idealists/extremists usually sprout off, or perpetual reading about buying real assets - and only those that you can secrete up your ass when you cross the border?

my sentiment is based on what i have seen in the markets with real accounts and people running losses. I understand where you are coming from but to cloud the issue with accounting differences is rubbish - a loss is a loss. If you wish to crystallise it then this is a different matter, and then you have other issues of re-ntry (geeting a trade on again) and what your worst case is, when do you decide to stop the loss.....even if you are investor. Too often the problem is just that....people saying "its ok its only a paper loss, I will get out at break even" this is flawed thinking IMHO I agree investing and trading is different....pointless to compare some aspects.... In your case you are forgetting places like Japan, and the fact you need to be diversified in a portfolio, unleveraged, take into account dividends, splits etc; etc.....You then have the issues of exactly when you purchase your investment! To consider longer term investors have a higher probability of breaking even AND YET they cant leverage as there is greater uncertainty - WTF?:helloooo: Not if you then take profits straight away - you will never get away from break even - when do you actually make the huge profits? It seems you are then better off trying to improve your entries, setups and context of when to trade (i know the things everyone talks about but are irrelevant ) so in other words, you have a larger dollar at risk for the loss and hence you probably should have a smaller size on - whats the difference? If you can perfectly hedge then great - usually the costs of the hedge are prohibitive. (I used to be an equity option market maker, a lot of the time you made money from a small spread, (your edge) and kept a flat book, occasionally you would get a good move, and ideally you wanted lots of volume = lots of edge. This became eroded, and I found that I spent most of my time, putting on those 'free trades' - the ones whereby you had it at break even - but hen you had to let it ride when the opportunity arose to really make money. Or be long vol all the time and hope someone puts a plane into a building. Its tough work waiting it out - and if thats what you are getting at, remember people do it already, its hard work, and required low costs, lots of leverage etc; and the key is still to let it run) You might have more debate if you want to talk about the differences between mental stops, catastrophic stops and automatic stops......then i would be more inclined to agree. There are so many variables at play depending on how you do things they all need to be considered.

I will respond as this is a bug-bear of mine over the years. A realised loss = an unrealised loss = A LOSS! Period. There is no difference. The only difference has to do with accounting practices and weather or not you maintain an exposure to an investment OR trade. If you are looking at a system then you have to take into consdieration other factors such as re-entry, leverage, costs of trading, slippage etc; etc;. The rest of talk about not taking stops etc is a BS smokescreen IMHO, and will depend on those previously mentioned other elements in the system.strategy you use. eg: if you use leverage and you are a long term trader (INVESTOR), your unrealised loss can easily become a realised loss when you have a margin call from the broker - does that then make you a trader....no. (Maybe you have just used a poor heading for the thread? or you fasting has muddled the brain )

your broker should be able to answer most of these questions - or at least the LSX....and on looking at the LSX their glossary is about as circular as a hamster in a wheel. :doh: I dont trade UK stocks, but at a guess from what i have known elsewhere below are random thoughts...... Why a 4.30 trade? To allow unfinished orders to be completed. eg broker had 1million to buy over day, they completed 990,890 and the balance is to be completed, and oddlots are not left over. or, some funds, brokers, clients try to get set on as close as possible to the end of day price. or sometimes trades during the day have been amalgamated and are crossed and booked out to a client. Sometimes its part of two different clients matching orders and they want a price to just transfer stocks. This of course means there is two closing prices (usually called a different thing - eg; last price, or settlement price) - but they are generally fairly close. ............ I would think your assumption that the volume is simply the matched trades at the 4.30pm auction is correct. ............. Who puts them in? if you have direct market access and can see the crossed over prices before they match out, then i would assume you should be able to participate as well. (I dont know) ......... Its like a cleanup session for the end of the day. .......... usually to find out more, you need to do the operators licence exams, or maybe the IMC courses......

bob - "The ONLY TRUE EDGE the retail trader has is THE LONG TERM TREND . So to make the big bucks I must find markets that are trending, enter a trade , live through the drawdowns, with BIG stops , and find an Exit point." It seems from your conclusion that - you make money from the trends, and from running some positions with the trend, and the issue is how big a drawdown you have to sit through. Alternatively as Pyrme mentions - the other edge you have is the ability to sit out. IMHO This cannot be emphasised enough. If there is nothing happening you dont need to do anything....and if you have a running winning position, then again its unlikely you need to do too much. What is a better result - trading every day to make $1000 per day or waiting for a trade that comes along that has a high probability that if it occurs will make you multiples of that with still pretty small risk. Then you can follow the Dudes advice and have a bigger go at it with still small risk. (Even though i think he is still advocating trading more often with small stops, larger leverage when what ever pattern you find you can get to work consistently - a great idea.) DbP waits for support/resistance - once you nail how the markets move you can have a pretty big go at things for very low risk....and yet how often do you need to wait for support, and when you do i bet you are thinking "i will go early, i dont want to miss it" or once on you think "that was easy i will just take this off now and trade that swing again" One conclusion i have come to over the years is that over trading is a massive issue....and day trading because you cannot run positions over night will force you to do that. while there are times that the markets all seem easy and the day trading makes a lot of money and you cant put a foot wrong - it is usually when the markets let it happen - but not every day. As they say no system works all the time, but it just needs to work enough so that when it does you can make plenty of money by being only slightly selective, and then using some leverage. (At present an example is the EURUSD - intraday I think it has been choppy crap, and not suited to me - i made some money, lost it, lost it, made it recently ---- i know its crap as its in the middle of a range on its daily charts, grinding up, small ranges, large gaps - i hate this for me - net result down a couple $k- there is nothing really happening - and unfortunately i have no longer term position on it at the moment. I am constantly tempted to trade like the siren mermaid calling out.....but i have to wait.....and watch and wait --- thats my edge for the way i trade.....) point is - you dont need to live through big draw downs, you just need to wait until the drawdowns are likely to be so small when you are wrong that the entry is worth taking. (Whats that great saying by someone in the market wizards books - just wait until the market gives you an opportunity and then walk over to the corner and pick it up)

just start reading some the longer threads here examples; by DbPhoneix which i think have value Also - learn about what you are going to trade, the instrument, how your system works, some of the terminology. Ask questions. Dont waste your money on a system, get rich quick or educator - you dont have enough of it, and most things are available for free, and it wont be until you really work out what you are wanting to trade, how and why until you want to spend money on things. welcome to potentially the most humbling and frustrating things in life (apart from relationships and golf)

good answer by BlueHS.... Also dont get too caught up when people talk about hedging, spreading, arbitrage etc ; a lot of the time they are talking about similar things - maybe with slightly different motivations and just using the same/similar terminology. What one person calls a hedge, another calls a spread. There are additional things i might add which are sometimes involved (but not necessarily hedges) - 1....often a spread trade is done to represent a trade idea. This spread might represent the trade idea but with less (supposed) risk. 2...often using these spreads (or by putting on a hedge) allows the trader to use extra leverage to make the most out of what 'edge' or value they might see. (of course this leverage can also increase the risk - see LTCM - when genius failed) and is also very topical to the hedged positions many banks. insurance agencies thought they had during the recent liquidity crisis.

imagine if he could trade and see the markets as well as this.... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA]Bruce Lee- Ping Pong (Full Version) - YouTube[/ame]

if you want to survive in the coming doom - be prepared to hunker down, be opportunistic and wait it out. But then i would rather enjoy my life now and probably not want to survive. if you want to thrive in the coming doom - be opportunistic and join those who will thrive - probably the lawyers, government officials and other such useless parasites. But then i would rather enjoy my life now and probably not want to survive if you want to just enjoy the status quo as you dont think the doom and gloom is as bad as it might be - then i would rather enjoy my life now. Its the old doomsday scenario - who the f...k wants to survive a comet, nuclear war, world plague of the walking dead. If its simply financial well then thats a different story and the best you can do is diversify as who knows which government will seize which assets and when - do you?

yes - i am not sure about checking the local Oz BBC - they had a whole series on poverty around the world....the interesting one was the power in the USA.....so just that one episode might be worth getting hold of. - it might come out in a few months. I always record these things and have them going in the back ground while trading or doing other things - sometimes it crap other times interesting.....like all good home husbands i have to multi task