fajim2004

I have from time to time considered setting up my trading strategy for autotrading. Problem is that I am really not interested in starting from scratch to attempt this myself ? Would rather hire someone to do it. The question is, Are there any reputable programmers available for hire ? If so where would I look ? TIA

I have spent a lot of time poking through C2's site and archives. My opinion is there are a handful of systems worth subscribing too.Most are just plain garbage. The key here is to diversify and not put all your eggs in one basket.

Now heres a post I can really relate to. Spent tons of money through the years to get my trading education. It was only in the last the few years that I actually became consistantly profitable. Now that I became profitable I now realize just how much I was held back getting to where I am today by all these system sellers and promoters. As for for people being suckered in by shady promoters, most people like myself are conditioned to believe that an education costs $$$$. If you want to learn a trade you need to put in the time and effort and pay your dues. The problem with the Futures industry is that there has never been and probably never will be an accredited school that teaches trading. Mia Culpa: When I started out in 1980 I bought every book - established a huge library, 1. Subscribed to various newsletter/advisories, Cycle trading, Seasonals, etc. 2. Purchased systems, bought black box systems (even from Bill Cruz before he started Omega Research of tradestation). 3. Took classical bar charting courses at CME (Cost $24) Invaluable!! 4. Purchased System Writer Plus and wrote trading systems - curve fitted, over optimized, walked forward..thought complexity trumped simplicity. (Not) 5. Subscribed to a trading system newsletters - Bought a few, useless except to deconstruct-- to learn. 6. Lagging indicators -studies, Gann, Elliott, Fractals, Fib's, Hurst, Market Profile 7. Worked with George Lane in 1980 -1982 with an Apple Computer who invented Stochastics - it was the Holy Grail (we thought) at the time - it wasn't in the public domain yet. (Wouldn't put it on my screen today) 8. Researched various oscillator configurations - thought the Holy Grail was just around the corner - didn't understand the flaws in lagging indicators. (Learned) 9. Attended several seminars - the most benificial by Pete Steidelmeir of Market Profile fame... Learned Auction Theory, couldn't use MP..abandoned it for years until Volume Profiles - ding, ding, ding. 10. Purchased tons of various latest & greatest software packages as they were released, etc, etc, etc. after being reviewed in Futures Mag. Too many more to remember at the moment but been there, done that... Many deadends... blew up several trading accounts.. lived through locked limit moves against me, margin calls and despair... Trading at that time in the early 1980's was a mostly isolated profession - other than at the Exchange there was no way to be part of a community like we have today, there was no information available at your fingertips... the traders I knew at CBOT/CME were mostly floor traders, not even remotely similar to what we do.. nobody had the answers for a screen trader since when I started we barely had screens.. a quote machine was basically it.. a realtime Tic chart cost over $700/mo - in 1980!! a breakthrough - you had to run a phone line to Mass. to get data..I think it was ADP Comptrend. There was no daytrading..it was positions, trend following. Swing Trading was aggressive.. Screen traders really didn't exist except in a corner of a room..the Exchange members thought I was out of my mind..we could not relate at all. (Actually they were right) At the time, there really weren't any other ways to get an education and I did the best I could under the circumstances. Nobody was there to mentor me - I was a hair late to be part of the Turtle Trading Group put together by Richard Dennis.. they had just stopped taking applications when I showed up - that might have helped -do you think? Today, none of that is necessary..All the answers are right here and on the web... at your fingertips... and in yourself.. This journey has many components. It never stops being a continuing learning experience.. Today I am successful but there were many years I was not.. When someone asks me how to do this I can give them generic ideas but I can't give them a Plug & Play solution..I also cannot give them the tenacity and commitment it takes to make this into a business.. I cannot get them to bypass screen time..you can't buy someone elses experience. I still post simple questions - about the basics..why?..I want to see if things have changed..they have not. It is all the same... sure there are slicker software packages packed with indicators - I admit to use a few... but very little... most are redundent - useless crap.. IMHO. The point of this is not to knock vendors but to say it is all out there. However, you must align what is there to yourself.. this is no easy task since you will never truly know yourself and have any opportunity to succeed until you do..

I really think that you really need to research past issues from MRCI. Just because a computer through backtesting came up with these 9 out of 10 and 10 out 10 wonderful trades that they are not very good at predicting what will happen in the future. Computer optimizing back data as its finest,,,,,,,,,,,

Stepdaughter was back home for the weekend. Currently she is taking college classes in the evening and one of the just happens to be physcology.Naturally when I found out I was curious if she had any idea about trading and phsycology so I began asking general questions about traders not following a trading plan,moving stops,failing to take loses ect. To her this was all related to gambling issues and tied into ones beliefs. These beliefs were formed in childhood and are ingrained us. She was adamant about this and claimed beliefs are very difficult to change on one's own without the help of a trained psycologist. Now I just thought I'd pass this along as some of you might find this interesting. Keep in mind that the source is a part time college student that took a semester of pshycology. To her, It is beginning to seem like there is no way to learn how to trade unless you have good training from an expert trader or a qualified psychologist.

Am curious if anyone is familiar with a book written by Steve Briese called The Commitments of Traders Bible or any of his website services.

I have found this thread very enlightening and wish to thank everyone who has contributed. Having always been under the belief that all I needed to make money in the markets is to find a better trading plan that I am able execute with ease would solve all my problems. I now fully realize how important the mental game really is. This thread was the first time I have ever seen the the mental aspect discussed in so much detail. Now I understand how important it really is and to the high degree it has affected my trading. For years I was able too take 5k and was able to triple it within a couple of months or less only to give it all back within a week or so. I now understand the reasons behind this and will take appropriate measures to keep this from happening again.

If I were to hire a coach/conselor the #1 qualification would be that he/she would have to be a succesful trader to begin with and have a proven track record. As my uncle used to say,Anyone can farm,,,Making money at it is another matter !! good point Kiwi - as I guess this boils down to if you are looking for a helping hand, you ideally want it from a good coach that can help issues of self deception - as this to me is often overlooked as to why people dont follow their plan - this is the mamma not holding the hand, the wising up and taking responsibility, the elephant in the room. failed traders, struggling traders, fat people (its such a great comparison ) all too often lie to themselves about their abilities, their actions and the consequences of those. Often its not a trading coach you need but a coach that has some experience in trading...... Again, maybe not something for beginners but more for those who have hit a road block.

This something that Mark Douglas discussed in his Pathways to Consistancy workshop. He attacks this a little differently as he seen the root cause of the problem of believing in probabilities. He reflected that nearly all the folks that he personally coached in his career had a problem with this. Most people are conservative in how they handle money and are risk adversive. Thinking in probabilities is extremely difficult to overcome. The question you need to answer for yourself is just how risk tolerant you really are. How many losing trades you can take in a row before self doubt sets in ??? How long are you are you willing to trade an edge that currently is not profitable ??? Or let paper profits turn into losers ?? Weeks ?? Months ??? Quote: Originally Posted by Todds It is only through acquired knowledge, attention and experience that we improve our skills and slowly begin to have confidence in our judgment. I am trying to keep it that simple and not get sidetracked on other things. Therein lies the remedy - not in a $3k or $7k course/webinar/book/worksheet/ etc. Once the trader understands their true edge, and executes it flawlessly, he will begin to experience confidence. Try telling a losing trader that losses are a normal part of trading, when all his trading does is drain his account. But a winning trader will embrace losses, and agree whole-heartedly that indeed losses are a part of trading. The difference is that a confident and winning trader is not anxious about losses, because he knows his edge will provide more wins over time. The losing trader on the other hand, becomes more anxious with each loss, and begins to doubt whether trading will ever fulfill his dreams. By addressing the technical deficits, the anxiety problem disappears eventually. And this could be a reason many traders trawl the forums looking for that wonderful indicator that they can use with confidence, to turn their trading around. I am open to discussion on this, but so far, this has been a far more believable and logical reason for traders lack of success. I have always believed that if we get the method right, the money will follow. Once a trading plan is in place, with a trading strategy providing an edge, and once sound money management is utilized, the rest will eventually follow. But it will take time. Trading needs to be learned like an apprenticeship. Except in the trading world, there are few master traders willing to take on a new trader, and bring him through to the end of an apprenticeship, and to a full trading qualification. Oh yes - there are plenty of "trainers" out there who will take your money, but few genuine mentors who know how to bring a trader through the trading minefields to success. I believe money earmarked for psychological therapy would be better spent under the guidance of a decent mentor, if you are fortunate enough to find someone inclined to help. It is obvious that many would-be traders are willing to part with money in order to learn the art, but forums are filled with the tales of disappointment and rip-offs.

The cure for the first 4 trading problems listed below is simply a highly productive edge in the markets that can produce a consistantly upward equity curve with very little drawdown. As for # 5, unless a therapist or counselor has a highly consistant trading edge that he or she is is willing to instruct or teach a client,,,,,,,, its just an additional waste of time and $$$$$ Quote: Originally Posted by Ingot54 If there are truly psychological reasons for trading problems, then I don't know what they are ... I am unconvinced that a trader experiencing negative outcomes will be helped by the vagaries of psychology. Delving into the realms of psychology conjures thoughts of pathology that requires counseling and therapy, both ideas of which I reject at this point in time. For starters, we only have someone's opinion that the "problem" is based in issues that can only be "helped" by psychology and "applied remedies." The main "issues" I believe traders have, are related to previous unsuccessful attempts to break into trading as a means to bring money ... and that is as simply as I can state it. 1) So what kinds of things happen to a trader, to bring out these anxieties/problems? 2) Were these pre-existing - perhaps the trader is unsuited emotionally/psychologically to trade? 3) Did the problems develop as a result of negative trading experiences? 4) Were these trading experiences a result of poor preparation technically, and thus can be rectified in the same way? 5) Can Psychological therapy/counseling really bring a trader with a poor strategy/approach to trading to a condition of positive outcome? So where do the anxieties come from?

And some non-rhetorical questions: Well Ingot I"ll put in my 2 cents worth.I became interested in trading stocks nearly 40 years ago and quickly became interested in commodity trading. At that time there were only a couple of ways to communicate. Books,newsletters,mail and phone service. Since then hand held calculator and the wonder of the internet came about. Also needs to mention that before that even back in the 70's before deregulation a R/T trade would probably cost $40 bucks. Obviously people didn't day trade back then. Back then the general mentality was to learn as much about the marketsas possible. After all those with the most knowledge should win right ? Didn't happen, and I strongly belive if records were available for trading accounts 100 years ago they would reflect the same. As for myself I can execute my trading plan like a pro for a month or so only to give it all back in less than a week by trading outside my plan. Always seem to find additional opportunities outside my trading plan.Perhaps I am over educated in technical analysis? Guess its just a mind game I haven't figured out. * Why do 95% of would-be traders fail to reach their goals, and indeed leave the industry with disappointment and busted accounts? * Why have these statistics stood for so long, given the massive support industry available to traders? * Are "psychological issues" the real reason traders are failing? (I think that one is rhetorical )

Ingot, I did not actually attend the seminar. I purchased it from his website. I don't believe that it matters if you are there or not. Only the information that was presented is what matters. Mark Douglas has not written any books or has otherwise held himself as a consultant for years. As to getting my monies worth.I would have to say I did. Did I become instantly profitable? For that I would have to say no. Has it helped my trading ? For that I would have to say the jury is still out. The value that I feel that I did recieve was having somone with a somewhat different opinion on trading. There are many nuances that I was not aware of that came out in this seminar.One of them was talking about peak preformance.As an example Most people are unable to focus objectively for long periods of time. Douglas found there are many people that can only trade profitably for a couple of hours a day.Something I am exploring myself As for your "Paths to Consistency" Seminar, I have no opinion, because I have not attended it. I would be interested though, in due course, to hear back from you about how you found the course - and how your trading is going 3 months after completing the seminar. I do not know - you might be well on your way to financial independence by then, and indeed "trading for a living." Just one 2 1/2 day workshop @ $600 may be all anybody needs. It seems to be excellent value compared to the many thousands charged by other professionals. I have not heard any feedback from anyone who has actually completed this seminar, so I might be missing something. Maybe your results will be what is required to convert me to the idea that a single workshop can turn traders from loss-to-profit.

Mr. Howell, I would like to ask you a question about something that has always been floating around in the back of my mind. Aside from myself I am sure others here would be interested in your reply. Lets just say a person had developed a simple trading strategy that was highly profitable yet required that it be monitored and traded throughout the day. This individual also had a very good day job that he or she did want want to give up and could also not trade effectively while at work. This I am sure is a common dilema for most traders. Why not just hire and train someone to monitor and execute your trades according to your written trading plan.Being an employee the person would have a vested interest in executing the trading plan as specified.

I have throughly read both Mark Douglas books and have even purchased his weekend seminar "Paths to Consistancy" What Douglas advocates to change the pattern of fear and greed to eliminate hesitation is too take a simple trading strategy and force yourself to execute this strategy 20 times. You are not allowed to change or modify the rules until you have completed all 20 trades. As for myself I completed more than 20 trades using a simple intraday trading strategy that more than likely would result in either a small loss or profit just to do the exercise. The result of my trading was that I ended the series with a small profit. Although I could say that I successfully completed the excercise and turned a small profit what I actually was doing was doing was keeping myself so focused entering and moving stops that my mind did not have any time to dwell on other thoughts. This was not my style of trading. My conclusion is that if your managing a position trade or swing trading this leaves the mind more than ample amount of time to second guess your written trading plan. After all, we all know that there is always ample opportunties out there.Why not add a position on a retracement of trend while were sitting here. After all it fits right into our original trading plan doesn't it ?? Finally, when Mark Douglas advocated “Discipline” as per his title, did he allude to Consistency in Application of a Written Strategy/Plan, and Commitment to following that plan? I honestly can not remember, and if he did, then I probably will not have much to take issue with.

Rande, Perhaps you could enlighten all of us here about some of the beliefs that are sabotaging a lot of us traders. On the surface excecuting a simple written trade plan should not be difficult,yet many of us are unable too do so. Being that I have a book and offer programs for training the brain/mind for trading, I certainly in favor of education. The point I'm trying to make is that understanding our biology's influence (and how to work with it) on pattern and mind moves change from short term to long term more effectively. I know people who traded for 10 years with good head knowledge of their methodology but didn't make much progress until they really started changing belief system. I know trader who, in 2 years, were strongly profitable because they had the wisdom to know that body and mind had to be trained and developed from an emotional point of view. Rande Howell