TheDude

Aah ha! That makes more sense to me. May I offer the following then...... Possible POC in green that is perhaps offering what you chaps refer to as resistance as the market slows down with the increased liquidity? If your're interested, the POC is actually at 99.0, and the POCvolume is at 86.1 TPO counts are 8788/38825 suggesting longs appear to be keeping prices up the majority of the time, however the VPO (volume counts) are 92916/56651 suggesting sellers are very keen to provide the liquidity to the longs and then some. Perhaps the sellers are more passive?

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain. Much appreciated, and I respect your point of view. I'm still a little confused however. You say the lines suggest areas where there might be a struggle between demand and supply. Could there be the danger that such areas will create a bias? My magic lines - most of which I admit didn't happen to be so magical in hindsight, may have suggested such a struggle when they were approached, yet there was no such struggle. A trader may have expected a bounce, but instead got a break through. Volume on these points was kind of normal, where as the trader may have had a bias that a breakthrough should be accompanied by heavy volume - so faded the move, and got badly burnt - perhaps. If there were no lines, and no thus bias, one could perhaps may have been more objective? I have the same feelings towards magic patterns and shapes; such as double bottoms, triangles, witches pentagons and so forth. Elliot Wave is of course the prize fools errand of them all in my opinion. I'd suggest the only real levels one should watch for if using a chart are previous congestions, trading ranges/call them what you will. These reflect in my opinion prior perceptions of value as there was most trade there - therefore more emotion/people willing to protect and defend, or give up positions.

I've added a couple of my own magic lines. My magic lines are in RED. OK there isnt any volume analysis with them, but if you look at them, they would have seemed to have made sense when back in time when the end of my magic lines were at the hard RHS of the chart. 1 or 2 had some 'impact' on the market, the others didnt - despite making perfect sense at the time. Did they really have any impact in the market? Did the market react because a bunch of other traders had the same lines drawn on their charts? Perhaps I'm missing something? :helloooo:

Sure I can understand that. The activity I refer too happens very quickly sometimes. The fact it's happened has registered and Ive instinctively got into the trade before Ive even realised consciously whats happened. It can happen on exits too - win or lose, but not as frequently perhaps. It's a nice feeling to suddenly be looking at the screen with no position, then all of a sudden see youre a few ticks onside already without consciously knowing wtf just happened - but also being ok about it, realising youre in the zone. Goes the other way sometimes too though

I'd agree. I dont think I'm explaining myself too well (if anyone gives a tinkers cuss!) Take The Turtles method. It worked in it's day, and we know the key to trading it successfully was following those instructions/rules to the letter. No discretion. 1-2-3. It's the basis of the whole CTA industry we have today. Some are pulling down big numbers doing this. I have similar approaches to my spread trading where I'm holding for 1 day to a month or 2. Such an approach however doesnt lend itself to day trading. Not for me anyway. Sure I have a structure, and a general criteria/model or what ever you want to call it, but nothing is written in stone. You cant cater for all eventualities. I may see a scenario unfold. I may sell. 30mins later, I may see pretty much an identical scenario unfold, maybe at a similar/same prices, but this time I buy. If I were following rules, Id be doing the same thing. Obviously it's the context that causes the difference - and you cant put that into rules. Sometimes I find myself with a position on and I cant even remember why I got in. Was it x or y? I am confident that my subconscious saw it or whatever, and so I clicked. I know there must have been a reason otherwise I wouldnt have entered - yet I know Im not trading from the gut or impulse. There was a reason there. My focus is then managing the trade. I know Im going to puke or scratch if it goes against me a few ticks - but thats the only mechanical rules based stuff I can handle.

i've thrown in the towel too. Im now making a stack doing gonzo porn. much more fun and the money is about the same. :haha:

you want to talk to Roger Felton. He's a mentor on this site and he assures me that mentoring is the way to go if you want to take down big numbers. Ive never used his services, but Im sure he's an honest chap and must be telling the gospel truth. Good luck!! (PS if he doesnt work out, you can always try Steve46. Another mentor - but he's soooo exclusive he doesnt take on any mentors by application. I think you get chosen or something. Lucky you!!)

I never said that either! Calm down pal, dont get too excited, were just having a discussion here. I said there was a lot of BS on the internet, and one use of a mentor may be to help focus on the valuable stuff - because there IS some valuable stuff out there. As for your other comments regarding some 'missing link', I kind of half agree. But half of all mentors are all pushing the same old BS: Day trading off a OHLC/candlestick chart. There may be 1 or 2 people who can do this fair enough. Ive never met one though. Ever. Plenty of successful EOD and position traders using them - and Market Profile (which Im a big fan of) - but not day traders. So you have a bunch of people all struggling using the same methods the industry and educational 'mentors' are pushing. See the connection yet? What other tools are there for day trading? People never talk of these, yet almost every day trader has one! So thats the issue. A bunch of 'mentors' who know jack shit about day trading teaching others about something they know ZERO about with the wrong tools! Just because its the 'industry standard' (read easier to sell) Good luck with that.

I never used the word 'stupid'. You're simply trying to put words into others posts. Seems like you've got issues. Care to sit back on my couch and talk about them? It's ok, you're safe in here. Guess what - a couple of years ago, I was talking to a psychologist (by chance in a bar) who was employed by banks and prop firms, HF's and the like to coach traders. Big deal. You're missing the point. At the moment, were probably trying to get a bunch of guys who are losing or at break even, maybe making small money to taking down serious money. THATS when a coach comes in. BUT FIRST you need the fight. If you aint got the determination, no coach will help. EVER. To try and peddle courses that pretend will turn George Average in to George Soros is misleading and perhaps deceitful. Maybe when George Average is George Somebody, and wants to go to the next level, THEN he can call the services of a PROFESSIONAL. But that first step isnt going to come from a course, a book, or anything else that isnt freely available. How many stories are there that we know of where some parent goes out to get their kid the best piano teacher in the city. Years and years later, the kid knows how to play the piano, passed a few grades, but could get no further. Yet the teacher has coached grand masters of the world. How come the kid never got passed 3rd grade? The kid just didnt want to play the piano. Despite having the best coach money could buy.

So whats the difference between a pro golfer and a successful trader? Not a lot - they both need a lot of dedication. The coach in your example will never make Joe Public into a pro-golfer or pro anything. That decision can only come from Joe Public. Did Pele have a pro football coach? As for the pilot and swimmer - well sure, anyone can teach someone how to look at a chart, draw some silly lines and see what direction the markets going in. Someone taught me to swim once. I couldnt make a living from it though! 'Mentors' can even teach you how to place an order and the different types of orders and all the other stuff. Will that enable Joe Public to make money? All half of these 'mentors' do is teach one how to become an analyst, and then the 'trader' goes off, performs analysis on the market and places trades accordingly. When the whole thing comes falling down, Joe Public then goes to the next level of mentorship - the trading psychologist!!! Here he's told he has a bunch of problems he never knew he had before (it's called being HUMAN), and he must eradicate these problems (of being HUMAN) if he's to get anywhere! The never ending circle of failure continues...... The real issue is, is that Joe Public never wanted to be an analyst with order entry capability, he wanted to be a trader. He got pulled in with all the BS however and started to think thats what traders do - analyse and place orders. He didnt realise traders, well, eeer, ummm, trade! Sure, there is some analysis in being a trader, but it's analysis of value of x against y, its analysis of order flow. It's whole load of stuff that do not include lines on charts. Thats for analysts you see.

Its a futile task this mentorship stuff. Lets face it, all you need to know is freely available on the internet. OK, theres A LOT of BS out there, but the only thing a mentor will be able to do is cut out the BS and make you focus on whats real. With some effort and thought, most intelligent people will figure out the BS by themselves. What no mentor can ever do though is install the drive to really want to be successful at this - which is what is needed. Think of it like any pro sports where the rewards for success are extremely high. The rules of the game/sport are known by everyone, yet only a few have the dedication and drive to spend every waking hour+ to make it happen. The mentor will never be a shortcut for that. Aint gunna happen in the markets. No shortcuts here, just luck that sometimes appears to fool new traders they have found a shortcut.

Yeah - that was kind of what I was trying to get at. When ever I read this 'stick to the trading plan 100%' I get the impression the author is suggesting trading is like assembling a model kit or something.

Id stay away from IB. Ive never used them, but I hear their support sucks. Believe me, you want someone who will pick up a phone in 2-3 rings and get you out of a position NOW when the proverbial hits the fan - as this tends to happen when your ISP or PC goes down as well - dont ask me why!!

For day traders, I'd say religiously sticking to 'a plan' is probably going to do more harm than good, especially if trading off a chart. The market is far too fluid and evolving for a set of defined rules to work, even if allowing for the law of large numbers. If a set of fixed rules/plan (assuming thats what you define the plan to be - entry, management and exit definitions, risk management etc) could consistently pull money out of the market on an intraday basis (where the velocity of making money is much higher - without wanting to sound like Jack H the biggest troll on the internet!!), dont you think some fund or bank, with all their computing power would have discovered them and be trading this way? I appreciate there are many successful systematic/algo day trading prop firms out there which may seem to discount what I've said here. However, these guys will be constantly changing their models throughout the course of the day. The plan is dynamic. It's probably beyond what most of the audience here is capable of. Therefore, I'd say that the successful day trader has a set of 'values' or 'criteria' which are both flexible and (more importantly) put into a context that comes with experience and intuition - something the constant algo re-jigging attempts to mimic. ie discretion without calling it discretion, but science - to please ego.

With regards to not letting profit run, how come no one's mentioned getting back in? It seems too many folk have a perceived problem, when there's a very easy solution. Nothing wrong with taking profit, but who said the trend is finished when you get out?

Ensign is a good platform. I've been using it for years. Support is very helpful and emails are responded to quickly. Careful with the sim in Ensign though - it automatically fills limit orders on a print so you wont get a good sense of how you will perform with questionable executions. No idea about Infinity.

Several times I've actually been tempted to back test the turtle method to see how it would have performed over the last 2 years or so. I just dont have the time to figure out how to do it in Ensign - I think it's got a back testing feature. My gut says it may work if you increased the value of N (from memory) - the multiplier of the daily range. I'd be surprised if many CTA strategies were much more complicated than the original to be honest.

Nooo - it was just a silly line I heard on the idiot box last night.

I guess Friday is the name of his horse?

Shoot the FX trader with one bullet. Then shoot the lock off the door with the other and run. ? Here's my puzzle: The hokey-cokey - maybe that really is what 'its' all about?

Interesting.... Department of Homeland Security to Purchase 7,000 "Assault Weapons" | Zero Hedge

Because some naughty little tinker with a great deal more money than you and everyone else trading the system will sell in to your buy orders all day long - the more the better as it means they can get more size done. Then, they have the added bonus of knowing that they can safely cover 10 ticks down where all the systems stops are. Heaven! Money moves the market, not retail toys like CVD, MACD, shooting stars, bullish engulfing candle sticks, fibs, gann, tripple double dip highs, triangles, magic pentagons etc....

All of these sorts of systems have a shelf life of the next market cycle. This is why most traders are constantly wasting time back testing and going from one method to another trying to find something that they can execute in a live market as well as it performed in back testing. Therefore, if I did have such a system that worked, here is what I'd do: 1. TRADE THE @*&%# OUT OF IT UNTIL IT STOPPED WORKING. 2. THEN I'D SELL IT TO THE UNSUSPECTING VIA A WEB SITE OR SOMETHING FOR EVEN MORE MONEY!!!!! Oooops. I hit caps lock. Of course, I'd provide all the evidence needed to show the method worked (in the past). I know some of you will think I'm a bit hard doing this, but the way I look at it is that we are all grown ups, and the market isnt a kind place anyhow. Whats the difference between me selling s system I know doesnt work (anymore) and selling a bunch of contracts Im sure aint going any higher? The market works on the bigger fool theory!

I'd estimate that at least 50% of my losing trades came back to profit at some point. The question is, did I have the margin or balls to finance these positions? Clearly my timing was off either way. So was his. Anyhows, they guy's a scum bag and should be locked up.

So that we're on the right page here, do you mean: Suppose you upset a Mexican gentleman is some way, and now he is jolly upset? Well firstly, gentleman do not carry guns. They have no need to - unless for sport of course. Red necks and other undesirables carry guns. Second, if our Mexican fellow was somewhat angry, then perhaps if MM was to have a gun on his person, then the Mexican chap may actually try and grab the weapon and use it on our poor friend MM! That would be a reason not to carry a gun wouldn't you agree? As a wise man once said 'He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword'. That applies to Niggaz and gentleman alike. :missy: