GCB

I miss the Campfire chatroom. The TradingRooms version would have been okay, but nobody showed up. I'll admit the chatroom distracted me from time to time, and I think some of the traders learned to "turn it off" rather than let it become a detriment, but it's still nice to have the option to chat with other traders.

Me neither. But the range and tick value($12.50 per tick) of the standard ags is very similar to the ES emini. So as Carter said the mini-ags are really like minis of minis for those used to the indexes. Plus the mini-ags have very low volume. I think we'd have to cough up the $50 a month to make it worthwhile to trade ags.

This is a considerations that has occurred to me lately. Sometimes, usually later in the day, if I am up, I will start taking half positions on my trades so as to not blow away my existing profits on stop outs. Seems prudent at first glance. But wait! I've noticed that it tends to be an excuse to get into a half-assed setups because nothing else is going on, or is just a reflection of chickenheartedness, and neither is a good habit to foster. If the latter and if the trade works out I kick myself for not taking a full position. A trade is either worth a full position or it's probably not worth the trouble. In or out, black or white. Another way to look at it is to ask: Would I take this trade with double my usual position (assuming your account could tolerate such a trade)? That tends to clarify things.

Nick, The white orders are orders between the bid and ask. Only happens when bid and ask are more that one tick apart. The prints with the bright red and green foregrounds are trades below the bid or above the ask, respectively. The prints with red and green backgrounds are supposed to show some kind of trend, but to me are just a distraction. You can turn that off on TS and I recommend doing so.

1. Yes, in the sense that I only reflect up volume for up bars (close>open) and down volume for down bars(close<open) and I keep separate running moving averages of both up and down volume to compare bar to--up bars compare their up volume to the moving average of up volume to get their shading, and down bars compare their down volume to the moving average of down volume for their shading. 2. I don't know MetaStock but I'll include the TS EasyLanguage code below and if you can find someone to translate that would be fine. The TTM feature is optional. Thanks very much for the compliment. I actually do use this now. I still keep a volume delta on the screen as well, for a detailed view of volume. But putting the volume right on the price bar as this does has really helped keep me focused on the volume aspect of what is going on. If you look at the attached screen shot of Friday's action the breakdown with volume from the morning range at around 10:25 CT is clearly seen, as well as the the meager retracement from 10:32-40. I actually got short at 12396 and rode half down to 12315. I wish I could say I covered at 12315 but I didn't. But I still got a nice slice of the move. Below is the TS EL code for the indicatre with comments. { $P-Trend Volume Bars -- Paint bar study shows trend and volume density on price bars. Price = Calculation of price to be used to determine trend. e.g. Close, or, (High+Low+Close)/3) PriceLength = Number of price bars to look back to determine trend. VolLength = Number of volume bars to look back to determine volume trend. ShowTrend = Paint the bars showing the trend. If false, up bars are green, down are red. ShowVolume = Paint the bars show showing volume density. If false, all bars are the same density. UpHR, etc, = RGB color codes. This is a TradeStation hybrid of Volume Gradient and TTM Trend. It will create a chart with two distinct ranges of colors. One color range, defaulted to green, indicates an uptrend--the other, defaulted to red, indicates a downtrend. The relative darkness of each color reflects the amount of volume in a particular bar relative to a previous sample average. The number of bars looked at to determine the trend is determined by the input PriceLength, the number of bars for volume comparison, VolLength. Since PlotPaintBar takes RGB color numbers, to provide the full range of colors, the inputs to this indicator allow a completely customizable red, green and blue setting for each end of each color range. For example, UpHR = The uptrend, high volume red component, UpHG = the uptrend, high volume green component, and so forth. DnLB = the downtrend, low volume blue component, and so forth. You can use any typical Windows color selection dialog box to select colors and find out the Reg, Green, Blue component numbers for the color. I suggest using washed-out colors for the low volume colors and rich colors in the same basic color for the high volume colors. For example, faded pink to deep red. But of course you can do whatever makes sense to you and looks good to your eye. But be aware, I've discovered that for the colors to show consistent density they must parallel each other. This is hard to explain, but if you look at the settings below you can see what I mean. UpHR(0), UpHG(135), UpHB(0), UpLR(205), UpLG(255), UpLB(205), DnHR(135), DnHG(0), DnHB(0), DnLR(255), DnLG(205), DnLB(205); Note that the algorithm used for determining trend is not exactly the same as TTM trend, but the results are pretty much the same.) } inputs: Price((High+Low+Close)/3), PriceLength (18), VolLength(30), ShowTrend(true), ShowVolume(true), UpHR(0), UpHG(135), UpHB(0), UpLR(205), UpLG(255), UpLB(205), DnHR(135), DnHG(0), DnHB(0), DnLR(255), DnLG(205), DnLB(205); variables: MA(0), HighColor(0), LowColor(0), Color(0), UpVol(0), DownVol(0), TotVol(0); MA = XAverage (Price, PriceLength); if BarType >= 2 then { ie, not tick/minute data } begin UpVol = Volume; DownVol = Volume; end else { if tick/minute data } begin UpVol = UpTicks; DownVol = DownTicks ; end; TotVol = UpVol + DownVol; if ShowTrend then begin if MA > MA[1] then begin HighColor = RGB(UpHR, UpHG, UpHB); LowColor = RGB(UpLR, UpLG, UpLB); end else begin HighColor = RGB(DnHR, DnHG, DnHB); LowColor = RGB(DnLR, DnLG, DnLB); end; end else begin if Close > Open then begin HighColor = RGB(UpHR, UpHG, UpHB); LowColor = RGB(UpLR, UpLG, UpLB); end else begin HighColor = RGB(DnHR, DnHG, DnHB); LowColor = RGB(DnLR, DnLG, DnLB); end; end; if ShowVolume then begin if High > Low then Color = NormGradientColor(UpVol, false, VolLength, HighColor, LowColor) else if High < Low then Color = NormGradientColor(DownVol, false, VolLength, HighColor, LowColor) else Color = NormGradientColor(TotVol, false, VolLength, HighColor, LowColor); end else Color = HighColor; PlotPaintBar(High, Low, Open, Close, "MATrendUp", Color);

keymoo, That is so weird. I have no idea right now. The function which does the work is NormGradientColor(), everything else about the indicator is pretty basic. I can't debug it because it's not happening to me. All I can suggest is to call TS. But try the TS supplied paintbar indicator called Volume Gradient. They'd hesitate to to support mine, but they have to support their own. G Rick, Send me your email addresss. The forum won't let me upload a workspace.

Latest version with new inputs plus comments. Price = Calculation of price to be used to determine trend. e.g. Close, or, (High+Low+Close)/3), etc. PriceLength = Number of price bars to look back to determine trend. VolLength = Number of volume bars to look back to determine volume trend. ShowTrend = Paint the bars showing the trend. If false, up bars are green, down are red. ShowVolume = Paint the bars show showing volume density. If false, all bars are the same density. TRENDVOL BARS.ELD

Yes, a longer PriceLength will find longer more sure trends, will but have a larger lag. A shorter PriceLength will locate trends faster, but will give more false signals. Such is the nature of trendfinding. This indicator considers it a change to a downtrend when a point on the moving average is lower than the previous point, and a change to an uptrend when a point is higher than the previous point. I will upload a new version soon with the comments, and also with a new option to allow determining the moving average price by something other than Close. e.g. (High+Low+Close)/3. This was a feature I neglected to add.

Robert, Thanks very much. Actually, the way it works is this: If the candle is an up candle--that is the close (or current) price is greater than open price--then the density of the candle color is based upon the amount of up volume for that candle relative to the average of up volume for the preceding n candles, where n is set by the VolLength input. Vice versa for down. So up volume is only compared to up volume, and down is only compared to down. So if an up candle is dark it means it had quite a bit more up volume than the average of the preceding n candles' up volume. Since each candle gains volume as it is being formed you will not know the end color of a candle until either it reaches its darkest possible color or the next candle begins. Practically all candles start out light colored. When the trend indicator is in an uptrend all candles are green, whether they are up or down candles, and in a downtrend all candles are red. Even so, up candle volume is only compared to the average of up volume, and vice versa. The PriceLength input is used to determine the moving average for the trend determination. Note also that this can only be used on intraday charts. Daily charts or larger do not differentiate between up and down volume on TS.

Guys, Thanks for your interest in this indicator. Here's a new version. It adds an input that allows you turn off the trend indicator and just paint normal up and down bars albeit with the volume shadings. Also, IMPORTANT, I discovered that for the colors to show consistent density they must parallel each other. This is hard to explain, but if you look at the settings below you can see what I mean. UpHR(0), UpHG(135), UpHB(0), UpLR(205), UpLG(255), UpLB(205), DnHR(135), DnHG(0), DnHB(0), DnLR(255), DnLG(205), DnLB(205); Without this you will have problems with similar relative volumes showing inconsistent shading between the up and the down versions. Please note that you have to delete the indicator and re-add it after installing the new version or it will use your old color settings. TRENDVOL BARS.ELD

ER2 is actually more liquid than YM. It's kind of like YM on cocaine really. It give you the most potential for gains, but for losses as well, and you have to be willing to deal with the volatility. Slippage is not bad at all. I usually got filled at my stop price. YM is easier on my nerves. But if you have the discipline and nerve to trade ER2 then it does tend to give bigger percentage moves.

Hate to sound repetitive but it's probably what you need to hear. It just looks like you are jumping into trades with no rhyme or reason other than impulse. Do you have a plan for entries, exits and risk? What signals do you look for with your entries and exits? What's your max risk per trade and how is it related to typical market action? Have you written any of this down? Do you believe in it? I would say don't trade again until you can specify exactly why you are getting in and out of trades--and "it was going up" or "it was going down" isn't good enough.

Here's the latest version. I changed it so it only puts up volume on up candles, close > open, and down volume on down candles, close < open. TRENDVOL BARS.ELD

In the spirit of the current interest in volume-based indicators, I wrote this TradeStation hybrid of Volume Gradient and Heikin Ashii Trend. It will create a chart with two distinct ranges of colors. One color range, defaulted to green, indicates an uptrend--the other, defaulted to red, indicates a downtrend. The relative darkness of each color reflects the amount of volume in a particular bar relative to a previous sample average. The number of bars in the sample both for determining the trend and the average volume is the same and is set by the input parm Length. Since PlotPaintBar takes RGB color numbers, to provide the full range of colors, the inputs to this indicator allow a completely customizable red, green and blue setting for each end of each color range. For example, UpHR = The uptrend, high volume red component, UpHG = the uptrend, high volume green component, and so forth. DnLB = the downtrend, low volume blue component, and so forth. You can use any typical Windows color selection dialog box to select colors and find out the Reg, Green, Blue component numbers for the color. (See the sample picture.) I suggest using washed-out colors for the low volume colors and rich colors in the same basic color for the high volume colors. For example, faded pink to deep red. But of course you can do whatever makes sense to you and looks good to your eye. (Note that the algorithm used for determining trend is not exactly the same as TTM trend, but the results are pretty much the same.) Hope this helps! TRENDVOL BARS.ELD

D-Link also makes a good product. The hardware part is easy. The tricky part is installing the drivers and configuring the router and network with the provided software and standard Windows software. Sometimes you can have everything set up the way that seems right and it still won't work and it can make you crazy. Try one of those places like Best Buy that can send out some help if you get stuck. MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER. D-Link, for example, wants you to install the drivers before you install the wireless network cards. Be sure to do what it says. Of course, if you don't plan on replacing you network cards the task will be easier. You can have more than one network running and can select one or the other from Windows to use. So don't shut down your old router until the new one is working or you'll cut yourself off from internet help if you need it. Also, if you have signal weakness problems consider getting an antennae booster for you network card. Good luck!

Volume charts basically incorporate price and volume into one entity. (Sort of like that hair product that's shampoo and conditioner in one, for active guys on the go.) I like the idea and it seems to me at first blush that if you are going the route of reading candlesticks as a primary signal that volume charts make the most sense. One advantage of these types of charts is they make moving averages much more relevant and useful. With time-based charts and their intermitent huge candles, moving averages tend to "get behind" and become useless for a while. With volume and tick charts they keep pace easier. Whether this consitutes an edge is not certain, however. One problem with volume and tick charts I've found is that the passage of time is a factor in trading and you lose that with volume or tick charts. What you gain in incorporating volume into the chart you lose by taking time out. You have to look at the time scale at the bottom (when looking at the charts in retrospect) to get any sense of time. Another problem is that since chart of the $TICK can only be time-based, it's hard to do back studies and compare the action of a volume or tick chart with the $TICK. Since the $TICK is so much a part of my trading I recently went back to time-based charts. But who knows what the future holds. What would be great is if they had a volume chart which kept the time scale at the bottom constant and simply widened the space between the bars to match the passage of time. That way your eye would instantly see all three--price, volume and time--reflected in the candlestick chart itself. Call TradeStation!

Good answer. Thanks.

ezduzzit, Thanks for the clarification. Using this method you describe do you ever have problems jumping out of trades that would have ended up being winners? Seems like that's the other side of the double-edged sword. (I realize there are a lot more double-edged swords in trading. In fact, trading itself could be described as one big double-edged sword, from which we try to derive the benefits of one edge while avoiding the consequences of the other.) I guess the question is, how do you practically discern noise from evidence that you are wrong on the trade. (Don't be too concerned. I try to do it, too. I'm just like to hear your thoughts on the matter.)

ezduzzit, I don't want to steer this thread in the wrong direction, but I have a question about this point of cutting losses. How do you apply this? Do you mean cut trades loose before they hit your stop because they are not acting right, or do you mean use tighter stops, or are you simply making reference to using stops in general?

That's too funny! I remember shorting Haliburton once with a market order and getting filled thirty cents lower than where I intended because of the uptick rule. Needless to say, the trade was a loser. Ah, the lessons...

Never mind. I figured it out. The white on green or red quotes are a TS feature which is supposed to show a "trend." Apparently it doesn't work very well because those are some pretty weird trends. This feature can be turned off and once you do the color mixing disappears.

First off I think TS is an awesome piece of software. I use it for both charts and orders and have no feeling that I need anything else. As a former professional programmer I especially like its robust programming language for writing custom indicators. I would be lost without that. That said, I think the automated trading feature on TS is more of a selling gimmick than anything else. I've written several workable though unsophisticated trading strategies and they all had roughly the same results: barely profitable with about 2-1 losers to winners and hundreds and hundreds of trades. The problem with any automated system is translating a trading system into a programming language. It is very hard, without miles and miles of programming code, to produce anything that even comes remotely close to duplicating what a good trader sees and thinks when sizing up even simple entries and exits. Automated systems within the reach of the average trader and programmer are simply not going to perform that well. It would take months of programming to produce anything worthwhile, during which time you could have been becoming a better trader, rather than a better programmer.

Robert, I use the current symbol for my everday trading and the continuous symbol (@) on any chart for which I want see historical data, since the current symbol only goes so far back. For example, if you want to look at two years worth of YM data for backtesting then use the continuous symbol. The continuous symbol will allways be in sync with the latest symbol after rollover day. (The prices vary between contracts and the continuous symbol has to be adjusted to match the latest symbol. This all happens on rollover day so the continuous can be squirrelly on rollover day and I don't use it at all on that day.) Since I have linked my radarscreen, charts and order bar, when I click on the radarscreen symbol its changes them all, including the order bar, and since it does no good to have a continous symbol in the order bar (you cannot place an order on the continuous symbol) I used only the actual contract symbols here.

I noticed while following YM today on TradeStation that the tape would show buys and sells with mixed colors, as in this picture: Note that on this tape in the right hand column there are prints on which the price is colored green (usually a with green background and a "+") yet the number of contracts is red. I thought a green backgroud with a plus meant the sale occured above the ask. But how could a sell happen above the ask (assuming the red contract count means a sell). The reverse happens sometimes--a red price with a "-" and a green contract count. Can someone tell me what this means? Also, there are many white numbers and sometimes the white numbers appear with green or red prices. What does this mean? I never see these kinds of oddball color combinations on the ER2, NQ or ES. Red always goes with red and green always goes with green and there is no white. Since YM is CBOT and the other are CME is this an exchange thing? Either way, I'd simply like to know what these color combination mean. Thanks.

I'm curious about something keymoo said, that the tape only shows market orders. Is this true? If so, why? (Or is the other side of the market order which is shown on tape a limit order?) Do market orders always have to be matched with limit orders? Or can two market orders or two limit orders be matched? If so, do these appear on the tape and how? It would seem from what's been said and how the tape appears that market orders are always matched with limit orders. Otherwise at what price would they be matched and how would they be presented on the tape, as buys or sells? But then, this begs the question, if there is only one buyer and one seller in the market, and they both place market orders, are we saying their orders cannot be matched until somebody comes along with a limit order? Or suppose they both place limit orders for the same amount of shares at the same price, on to buy and one to sell. How would these be presented on the tape? And what does it mean when an order executes "between the bid and the ask?" Is that two market orders being put together?