Cory2679

I was just thinking about Collective2...someone could really screw some people over... Just think...for one's "entertainment," someone who is a great trader could build a reputation and get many subscribers, then intentionally wipe out their accounts. Think no one would ever do that? It's the same idea as people developing computer viruses and spreading them through e-mail, etc. Probably not a good sign that my mind even went there. haha EDIT: I guess what made me think of it was the autotrading capabilities...I as a subscriber wouldn't feel comfortable having some random person out there on the internet essentially trading my account for me (my account being autotraded with their signals)...you never know people...

Yes. I certainly see what you're saying, but I don't think so...I've pretty much either gotten break even or taken full losses (if not reversing)...no "ripcords"...so it's pretty straightfoward stops/management...I've been doing it like that for about a month while sim trading privately...also, I pretty much dropped profit targets and trailed stops based on "natural stops" on the chart, which allowed me to make several R on single trades...however, that's where I got messed up when I began posting on here...I would set overly conservative profit targets, pull the trade early, or trail too tight. I've been doing all right...I'm pleased...but I did better before I began posting and cutting my winners short (I've been doing a lot better since I made that "Best. Week. Ever." post on my log. ).

Thanks, Dinero. However, about Collective2, maybe someday...I just browsed their site a little bit...looks cool/fun...but right now I have a different plan in mind... I'm going to go live this upcoming week (4/25) with my $100 Oanda account, trading "sub-micro" lots (100 units...$0.01/tick/lot)...so, risking 2% per trade (1R), I'm risking $2 per trade...money I can easily afford to lose, but it's still real trading, rather than sim. As Thales said... In addition...I'm discontinuing my daily posts here... I'm finding more and more that it negatively affects my trading...in the past, I've generally tried make a habit of not focusing on daily results because it's counterproductive and they really aren't significant, even relative to weekly results. While I'm trading during the day, I have my end-of-the-day post on my mind and it causes me to cut winners short to lock in some profit to post. I officially trade the morning as well as the evening, but if you've paid close attention you've noticed that I rarely place ANY trades during the evening...and the reason is that I'm often up for the day and I don't want to give it back and post a loss. I feel like I'm in the process of forming bad habits and I want to nip it in the bud. I think sappjason was having a similar problem a little while ago... I initially thought that sim trading "publicly" would be an appropriate step between sim trading privately and trading live, but I'm not sure anymore...because the pressure I'm feeling from posting daily results is different and pretty much unrelated to the pressure felt from trading real money...I guess I figured pressure is pressure, but now I feel like I might just be adding an unnecessary hurdle before me on my path to success. That's how I feel, anyway...other people may be affected differently...different strokes for different folks. I'm going to sim trade the last couple days of this week privately to make sure I'm 100% in the "flow" before I go live next week. What I might do is eventually post weekly results. I don't think that would have nearly the same effect. -Cory

+$6.94 (Sim)

Check out the difference between my Ninja/Gain chart and my Oanda chart. These are both the 1 minute EUR/USD chart... I've never seen such an extreme difference between the two. This is frustrating...I can't wait to trade futures again!

+$18.31 (Sim)

+$19.52 (Sim)

+$40.22 (Sim)

+$16.56 (Sim)

+$36.02 (Sim)

-$31.99 (Sim)

I'm not trying to promote/defend sim trading...but in response to this particular post...my perspective is that this would be more analogous to reading about trading in books/forums/blogs/etc., watching videos, chatting, going to seminars/classes, etc...but never actually trading... If we're talking about bike riding, to me, sim trading is analogous to riding a stationary bike in a health club and trading very small size is analogous to riding a bike with training wheels/stabilizers...I guess...although as it's already been stated, all of these analogies probably truly fall short, anyway.

Thanks for the post, Thales. I see what you're saying and agree with you. However, I can't help but feel that if a trader trades SIM unprofitably week after week, that it's a waste of time and money to go live. So...I would suggest that a trader like that continue to trade SIM, but to avoid getting addicted to it, tell him/herself ahead of time that once he/she achieves 2 weeks in a row of profitable SIM trading, it's time to move live for the first time (ideally a micro forex account, IMO) and never go back to SIM (unless on the side to test a new market/strategy, etc.). What do you think?

I would disagree...because a rope in contact with the ground would not require the same level of technique as a rope suspended a few inches above the ground...a rope suspended a mile above the ground would require the same technique as a rope suspended a few inches above the ground. SIM trading profitably requires the same technique as trading profitably live...the problem is that the psychological effects of pressure and real risk won't allow the trader to trade freely with the same technique as SIM due to emotions like fear. Rather than the middle picture being the equivalent of trading with "very tiny stops," I would suggest, if not equivalent with SIM trading, that it would be the equivent of trading with very tiny size...because the technique should be consistent...you don't learn with really tight stops and then gradually widen your stops...you may learn with really small size, and gradually increase your size. I'm not meaning to be disagreeable...I know you have more experience than I do and I definitely agree with what you're saying here. I just wanted to comment on that first part. -Cory

I'm just going to pop in one last time before I begin posting results next week...I know I'm taking up a lot of room in the P/L thread for not posting any P/L! :o;) I am going to do this, but I'm also still going to trade the first half of the Tokyo session (7:00PM - 11:30PM Eastern Time). I figure that won't make the transition to futures any less smooth...I'd just simply drop Tokyo. I figure while I am trading spot, I might as well take advantage of all the possible opportunity. I came to this conclusion last night after I watched the opportunity of a lifetime pan out...I called it in real-time and drew lines on the chart as I would manage it, but I wasn't trading, just watching. Had I left it overnight, this morning that trade could have been closed for +20R...that's a 40% return for me. :shocked: Obviously one opportunity isn't what I'm basing my decision on...it just caused me to realize that it was sort of silly to sit and watch and not trade if I could. ---------- On another note, each weekend I get a little thrown off from having two days off...I get out of the flow and Monday's are always a bit of an uphill battle...plus, I feel more pressure than usual when I load up my computer on Monday's. So, my solution to this is to SIM trade Monday's and live trade the rest of the week. BUT, since I'm trading SIM already, I guess how I would do it is to trade a different SIM account "off the record" Mondays, and SIM "on the record" the rest of the week. What I'll do is SIM "off the record" during the first half of the Tokyo session Sunday night and the 6E RTH Monday. Then, begin to trade SIM "on the record" Monday evening at the open of Tokyo. -Cory

I'm usually one to avoid the bickering that goes on here, but I just couldn't help but point this out...:o:o:o Even if you opt to have your age and date of birth hidden on TL, a while ago I inadvertently ran across a way view age anyway... And here we see... It doesn't make sense...it's closer to the S&C magazine age (perhaps they rounded up?). Seems sketchy. What's more likely, 8273849348 entering a birthday that makes him a few years younger for no apparent reason AND S&C magazine making a typo, OR that 8238473892 has lied. You decide. To me, there's only one logical conclusion. And just one lie, for me, totally discredits the person...even if they had something of value to contribute...anything from then on could be a lie and that person can no longer be trusted. And just to check, my age on TL is correct...I'm 24 (DOB: 12/24/85)...

I just wanted to comment on the part of this quote that I highlighted in red...when trading with a forex bucket shop (as I am), this isn't the case. The bucket shops have "no commissions"...they make their commission on the spread (and of course the positions they have against you when you lose). So, the forex bucket shop SIM accounts do include commissions. ---------- On another note, I'm still planning to begin posting here next week (week beginning 4/11). I figure I might as well go for it...it may throw me off and I may lose, but I have to just do it if I ever hope to overcome it. As far as I'm concerned, I've pretty much "mastered" private SIM trading over the last couple weeks, so it's time to move to the next step (SIM trading "publicly"). Although obviously I will continue to learn/tweak, I've in essence mastered the technique of the approach I'm trading (essentially my own version of the approach thalestrader advocates on his thread...a focus on highs, lows, trend, consolidation, support, resistance). Now it's time to master the psychological effects of pressure/risk... I'm currently re-reading Mark Douglas's Trading in the Zone, and I have his other book, The Disciplined Trader, coming in the mail. Trading in the Zone addresses the EXACT issues I've been dealing with as of late, and I'm really enjoying it. I should mention, I'm now trading solely the EUR/USD during the 6E regular trading hours (8:20AM - 3:00PM Eastern Time)...

Sure it is...it's doing the same activity, but without the pressure/real risk...serves the same purpose. The fact is that if you can't make money SIM, you can't make money live. It's perfectly reasonable to practice in SIM before going live.

I'm about half way done with the book, now (I didn't do much reading over the weekend...I admit that I may have taken some time to enjoy the weather.) When the pressure's off, I do very well trading my SIM account. However, when the pressure's on for whatever reason, I don't do nearly as well. It totally has to do with my attitude, state of mind, etc. While reading this book, I can't help but feel that it was written specifically for me. It is a book about exactly what I'm experiencing as of late. I'm enjoying it so much that I just ordered his other book, The Disciplined Trader. -Cory

I just finished the first chapter of Trading in the Zone...it couldn't be more perfect for me right now! The first time I read it was basically before I even got into trading...I had some interest and it was one of the first books I was recommended, so I read it. However, now, with much more experience, it's so much more relevant. I don't think I was was fully able to appreciate the book without some trading experience under my belt.

I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to say how I know...you can think what you want about that, but I have no reason to come on here and lie and I have no history of lying or BS on this forum. Obviously it's not typical, even among the 5% or so who don't lose all their money. I just know that it's possible.

86834, Would you consider the following example unreasonable? You'll notice that the "what you pay yourself" per month is 3.64 times greater than the number you give, starting with half the capital! I know for a fact that my example is possible... I absolutely understand and agree with the idea of having reasonable expectations, but at the same time the trader has to believe something is possible for it to be possible. ...of course, you can believe it's possible and not be able to achieve it...but you can't achieve it while believing it's not possible. Cory

Sometimes it's difficult to tell between the Reventon and a plain Murci. One thing I notice, though...it appears to have glossy paint...the Reventons don't. I'm sure you guys would know better than I would, though. -Cory

sevensa, Thanks for the reply. I see what you're saying and agree with you...I was just looking at SIM trading "publicly" as something of a stepping stone between SIM trading privately and trading live. Perhaps trading public vs. private and trading live vs. sim are two totally different issues and perhaps I shouldn't lump them together...if trading publicly negatively affects me, then it makes sense that I shouldn't do it...but I just thought it might be good "emotional training" for going live. Sure, I agree...I guess that goes back to the fact that perhaps I'm lumping two different issues together. But yes, my mindset will be about pretending this is a live account. Here's some discussion from the P/L Thread that I think is relevant to what I'm talking about... I keep thinking about this statement you made. Interesting on several levels. What do you think it is that causes such a huge difference between the your SIM and live money. Is it the money? If so, couldn't you post you entries/exits for someone else to trade so you have nothing at risk except ego. Cory posted something interesting saying that once he realized that he would be posting his SIM results (accountability), that was enough to throw off his game, money was no factor. I saw a big difference in my own trading when I went from secret SIM to posted on the forum SIM. It made trading much harder. It seems possible to me there is an "ego" and a money issue that seperately affect one's trading. If anyone wants to step up their SIM trading to something more challenging, simply start posting your daily blotter results here. No money at risk still, but you'll find many new emotional challenges. You have to decide when to stop trading, admit a losing day, everyday and every trade counts. Post the number of trades you made also. SIM normally doesn't account for commissions so $100 profit in one day is very different for a trader who made that in 3 trades and one who made that amount in 50 trades. Just a few thoughts.