patrader

2 bar case annotation document version 2

Here is my latest 2 bar case annotation document.Case A and B both have 2 methods to annotate the ltl based on post #120 on page 15 by spydertrader(http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-15.html).Gray colored bars can be either red or black depending on the relationship to the previous bar and/or the close of the bar in some situations(like an ob).The second bar in all case A's or case I's are always black.This is due to making a HH.Case B's and case J's the second bar is always red because they make a LL.hth

10-25-12 11:50 est thru eod 10-31-12

10-31-12 ES chart with pfc

Hi monk.Your color on some bars(price and matching volume) are still incorrect.I don't use ninjatrader but i have seen other ninja users with the correct colors on their bars.Look at your ibgs price and volume bars they should be the opposite color on your charts.Having the correct colors on the volume pane is very important to start the process of annotating gaussians.hth

Monkman a few suggestions.Correct your price and volume colors.Degap your chart.hth

j thanks for posting your charts.I totally agree that learning to read the market is key.Would you be so kind to post a chart of the previous day and explain the preflight checklist carryover for the next market day open.TIA

Forums - Software Used to Trade Jack Hershey Methods

can you say classic rollin up.hth

Forums - Nesting Fractals Dealing with RTH continuity is very important.......

The Journey Begins What sequences the market requires completing today often continues over from the previous day. As such, placing ‘carryover’ tapes, traverses and channels from the previous trading day alerts the trader as to which sequences the market still needs to produce / complete. Since these Volume Sequences continuously move from one day to the next (as well as throughout an entire trading day), for all intents and purposes, ‘gaps’ do not exist. Sure, anyone can plainly see Price gap one direction or another, but in terms of Volume Sequences markets represent a continuous stream of information. In order to create the proper visual ‘scene’ for viewing the Volume Sequences, simply mentally (or use software which automatically adjusts the market for you) slide the Opening (current day) Price up to the previous trading day closing Price (16:15 Eastern Time). While some might consider my comments on gaps utter heresy, logically, one can show many examples of trends which continue from one day to the next (Wednesday to Thursday last representing one such example). In addition, one can, quite frequently see the market begin the first part of the day heading off in one direction, only to reverse course and spend the rest of the day heading in another (See Wednesday morning until 10:35 Eastern Time for a recent example). Again, unless and until the Volume Sequences complete, the current trend cannot end, nor can the next trend begin. Therefore, if trends have the ability cross a multi-day boundary, logically, the sequences of the Price / Volume relationship must also have the ability to continue across the EOD. This ability of the Price / Volume Relationship to extend beyond close of business renders gaps unimportant and irrelevant. As such, they do not exist. To reiterate, with respect to ‘gaps’ in Price, I realize a number of trading methodologies exist, and a significant number of authors have written books describing, the exact opposite of what I have written here. We are not discussing those methodologies here. I am not saying one cannot develop probability based methodologies which can produce profit (hell, I used to trade an ‘opening gap’ strategy years ago). What I am saying is, for the purposes of ‘seeing’ the Price / Volume Relationship at work, gaps (and any probabilistic methodologies associated with them) serve no purpose and play no role in how one views the ‘right’ side of the market. Finally, when a trader begins the process of learning to differentiate that which they believe exists from that which actually does exist operating under the ‘correct’ mental state augments the learning process. In other words, ‘learning to learn’ begins with observing the market (almost in a scientific sense) in order to see that which exists, rather than, in an effort to prove or disprove pre-conceived notions. I do not expect anyone to blindly follow along, nor to I demand any great ‘leap of faith’ in order to participate. I’ve simply shown you how and where to go and look. Whether or not one chooses to actually go and see for themselves, remains a matter of individual choice. - Spydertrader

check out the thick red slower down container's rtl still in play.hth

And another "clue" from the spyder on reading sym lateral with boundary on page 161."In other words, we have defined something based on price, and we will use (later) Volume to note the differences amongst the various examples of things within this specific pile of Laterals (as defined above). " hth

More "clues" from spyder on reading a sym lateral with boundary on page 157." Today, I suggested whether the very same type of Lateral formed on increasing or decreasing Volume might represent a subtle difference - in other words, a way one can know how the market plans to exit the lateral in question." hth

More from spyder on page 154 about how to differentiante sym laterals with boundary."Next, look at context (VE's, declining pace or accelerating pace, etc.), and finally, check the order of events. Can you 'see' a completed Volume Cycle before the formation of the Lateral? Now, bring Volume back into the analysis. Price moving in the dominant direction (after a completed Volume Sequence) on decreasing Volume tells you a very specific thing." hth

Plus here is the follow up laterals all on one chart compliments of spyder.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/17510d1263047583-price-volume-relationship-follow-up.jpg. hth

This degapped 12/18-12/21/09 chart may help with the differentiantion drill compliments of double eagle.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/16798d1261528702-price-volume-relationship-laterals.jpg. I added a few annotations i felt were important to read the containers.hth

One thing i have learned to anticipate is spyder's teaching style tends to force a student to dig deeper and always remember that this is a price/volume method.That to me means to always use both the price and volume pane info for analysis of our data sets.I believe spyder purposely only included the price pane info when he posted this differentiantion drill to force a student to go get the volume pane info and combine with the price pane info to do the drill correctly.How do i know this? Because he says so on page 143."I did not intend for those working through the exercise to focus solely on Price." So what day is this drill post from? 12/18/2009 and 12/21/2009. http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/16734d1261181525-price-volume-relationship-es-09dec18-1808pv.jpg http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/16770d1261436230-price-volume-relationship-es-09dec21-1655pv.jpg Then spyder continues with some more "clues" on page 144. " 1. Tuesday (01-05-2010) @ 15:10 (all times Eastern and [close of] ES bar), the market provides a Lateral. Does this look the same or different than an example from The Lateral Formation Drill? What were the outcomes of each? What did (should) one learn? 2. Wednesday (01-06-2010) @ 12:15, the market provided another example of a Lateral Formation, which forms like another example within The Lateral Formation Drill. Does this example look the same or different than an example from The Lateral Formation Drill? What were the outcomes of each? What did (should) one learn? 3. Wednesday (01-06-2010) @ 14:40, the market provided yet another example of a Lateral Formation, which forms like a third example within The Lateral Formation Drill. Does this example look the same or different than an example from The Lateral Formation Drill? What were the outcomes of each? What did (should) one learn?" http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/17264d1262738753-price-volume-relationship-es-10jan05-1831pv.jpg http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachments/34/17344d1262822285-price-volume-relationship-es-10jan06-1753pv.jpg Now that you know spyder is talking about comparing both panes of info on each sym lat with boundary you can really start to differentiante.I took notice of the increasing red to increasing black volume in one of the same sym laterals spyder pointed out.See what you notice is the same or different in the laterals spyder pointed to.Focus on both panes especially the volume pane.hth

Forums - Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal Forums - Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal Forums - Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal Forums - Iterative Refinement Forums - Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal

Many ways to extract just depends on your personality and resolution level.

Here's a few more "rollin" charts.I have found that if you can anticipate the market going into a "rollin" mode then you can keep from repeatedly reading ftt's that turn into a zero slope retrace or lateral in grinding market mode conditions. This helps me to stay on the correct side of the market during these market situations.Many times the "rollin" comes after the market has finally broken thru a slow rtl creating a pt 2 in a new direction on increased pace.Then the market "downshifts" into a slightly lower pace level but continues to trend in the new direction just in a decelerated sloped container(rollin) compared to the original breakout container.hth

here's a few recent trading days where i read at least parts of the market day as 'rollin" so that is how i annotated.hth

Here's a few of spydertrader's posts on how he fans containers:"If I need to 'fan out' a channel (when price leaves the channel on decreasing volume) I usually fan from my last Point Three. Not only does the decreased slope of the new (fanned) channel visually represent a reduction in market pace, but using the Point Three vs. recycling the Old Point One normally results in fewer fans as time moves forward. Either way works. Choose whichever you feel best allows you to 'see' the market","When fanning out channels, Jack recycles his previous Point One. Because I look at a need to fan as a slowing down of market pace (and therefore, potentially providing an opportunity for the market to begin to roll over), I choose instead to recycle Point Three's into new Point One's. Doing so causes me to have to 'fan' less often, and allows me to 'see' the change in pace better. During the time frame you posted above, my original Point Three started waaaaay back. To me, recycling from that point, so far away, didn't make sense. Instead, I chose to recycle from an FBO that bounced off the RTL. In this fashion, I mirrored the use of a 'Point Three' - just further down the line. In other words, Any time I have Price return to the RTL, only to bounce directly off and move higher, I consider using that point as a new Point One, if need be - especially when the Points One and Three started so far back in the day from where I need the fan.","I 'recycle' my Point Three into a New Point One, rather than, use the Original Point One because I 'see' the market in terms of 'rolling through' various points instead of starting and stopping on those points of change. I annotate my channels in real time, and when Price breaks a RTL on decreasing Volume, we often have yet to see the end of the current trend. In other words, the channel needs changing because the trend did not change. When a particular channel continues on for quite some time, I may need to use the most recent 'trough' of Price (most likely a flaw, but could be an FBO point) for the New Point One - rather than go all the way back to the Point Three. This is the way I fan my channels as I feel it gives me the best view of the actual market. Others, who may view things differently might draw their fanned channels differently.","When the market 'rolls over' or 'rolls under' fanning from (recycling) the Point Three more accurately represents these changes. Jack refers to these changes as 'saucer shape' formations","The market tells us if we have correctly contained Price within our channels. One need look no further for confirmation on correct fanning than the market itself. Numerous examples exist each day showing how the channel has changed, but the trend did not. This occurs on every fractal, resolution and time frame","By fanning outward (channel deceleration), we show the intact trend (i.e. one which has not changed direction long or short), but we also contain the altered money velocity (we no longer profit as much per unit time as we once did). In other words, we haven't stopped making money, we just don't make it at the same rate as before","And 'fanned' channels always do fit into larger containers. Whether or not those larger containers assist the trader to either better 'see' the market, or enable the trader to bank more profits remains a matter of experience. Choosing to recycle a Point Three into a New Point One, or to 'fan' using the original Point One remains a matter of personal preference. For me, I 'see' the market as 'rolling over' from Point to point, and as a result, recycling Point Three makes better sense to me. However, someone else, who 'sees' things from a slightly different perspective might find 'fanning' from the same Point One provides better clarity. Again, two different paths which cause two different traders to arrive at the exact same place." hth

Spydertrader commented on how he and jack would annotate fanning differently though either technique was fine to use.Spydertrader would use a "rolling" annotation style on his charts using previous pt 3's and/or troughs when fanning decelerated containers.Here is your 10m chart with the "rollin" container annotated with white trendlines.I have found this annotation style to be very helpful in markets that the pace decelerates but the trend continues.hth