wsam29

Pivot, I think that part that confuses new traders as it did for me, is "how does one surrender to the market" without feeling like they don't know anything and yet be successful at trading? You could say it boils down to "you knowing what you are going to do when the market does what it does."

thanks for paraphrasing my quote.

You the right idea about moving your stop up the moment the markets gives you a risk free trade. Just work on your mental part of the game. If you need to smash your fist through a wall, break some key boards, do it, as long as you're not "pissed" at the market, you'll have a clear head to see what the market is actually doing. But this is my routine, after closing a trade out, win or lose, I take a 10 minute mental break, I do anything else other than watch price action. Surf the net for porn, check email, check this site, do anything else other than watch what the market continues to do after your exit. Why, I used to have this same issue you are dealing with right now. Trading one lot is restricting. What you could also do if you come to terms with it, is have an open target, just a stop in place and the moment the market gives you that risk free trade, move your stop and ACCEPT the worst case is a BE trade in which the market paid for your use of some mental energy. Now I already have a good idea as to what you may be thinking while in a trade like this. you might think, "I have a profit, I should take it, but what if the market goes against me, I'll lose what I have right now, but, but, but..." There are many factors other than market related issues that cause you to action or inaction. Just monitor yourself more closely each trade and you'll pick up your habits of thinking.

The problem is not your trade management, its your acceptance to being taken out and the market running in your direction. there is no right or wrong to your management style, just what is between your head and the way you think. expect and accept trades will have that outcome.

Hey now you can say you've picked the top! I know I have, what a nice feeling to see it trade lower on you. You can only laugh about it after its done.

Thats interesting you mentioned the Martingale method. I have a brief story about it. It involved my friend and online roulette. His method involved just that, doubling each bet after each loss. He tested it out at home, made some "easy" money, they don't like to earn it. He had some success, he did some number crunching with a spreadsheet and came up with super low percentage of having X amount of losers in a row or the possibility of ruin. He started pitching the idea to all of us and most of my friends do not trade, nor have any concept of risk management, so there is a differences of opinion, one who faces it every day and them. Now the moment he started running his mouth about how much money he made, it was a loss waiting to happen. Either way, 2 of them went in on the quick money maker so they though. They started off good, betting 2 bets to net 1 possible win. What he was doing was betting on the thirds on the table. Then the trouble hit, loser, double the bet, lower, double the bet, next thing you know the account was at zero. The look on his face like "this is not possible, having so many consecutive losers in a row." The whole idea of risking more to make less is never a winning proposition in the long run.

I myself don't really understand PC ratio, its not as clearly defined like the VIX index, which does have an inverse relationship to the stock indices. Have you considered doing some VIX comparisons to PC ratio since they are both options related.

This was one the main questions I had for Hubert Senters and John Carter when I went down there almost 1 year ago. I asked HS specifically what he was thinking prior to a trade, while in a trade and after the trade. HS said to me that he tricks his head into thinking he's gonna be right before entry. That did not work for me, I myself need to think in terms of am I willing to lose on this trade. I have a set amount in my head already. Each market is different. When I am in a trade, I'll start looking for clues if the trade will work out or not. There is nothing specific other than the pace at which trades are happening and the relationship it has to price and TICKs and volume, in other words, tape reading. My exit orders are already placed so there is less to focus on other than moving up the stop when its time. Some possible clues that the trade may not work out. TICKS go lower part of range, price does not, take a look at volume. When they don't confirm, its a "oh crap" this trade may not work out, but stranger things have happened so I don't mess with it, I just say to myself the stop order is in place and let it work. If the clues show me this trade may indeed work out, then its time to move up the stop. Some possible clues include price and TICKS confirming their move, both are making highs or at least moving together in proportion. If the target gets hit, great, but I generally get a little anxious when the price trades near it. Why the limit may not get filled, then its decision time, get out or see if it will trade through your limit or risk it taking your stop out. There is no cut and dry method each time, you make your decision and live with it. You need to accept the fact price may trade even further in your direction. Either have a scale out technique or just live with the fact price progressed WITHOUT you. We each come to terms with that at some point, its just a matter of when not how because everyone is different, but you need to come to terms with this possibility. Now, the good part, post trade, win or lose. I think what I did right and wrong with the trade and take a break for about 10 minutes. After my 10 minute mental break, if it was a loser and I see a signal, the next thought is "Do I dig myself deeper in the hole?" If I accept the possibility of loss,then I enter the trade, if I don't at that moment, I pass up until I do accept the possibility of loss. If the prior trade was a winner, I ask myself the same quesiton. Even if you have a mechanical exit, it all involves accepting the possibility of loss. Loss can be defined as a loss of one own's capital or loss of the daily profits accumulated from winning trades. Now this is how you dig yourself into a deep hole, not accepting loss. That is how new traders blow their accounts in months or cut your account in half in a matter of days. Understanding how you handle and deal with loss is more important in trading then entry set-ups, its just not as sexy when you think about it.

You are a Rare Breed! Only 5% of people have your natural abilities — those validated by the Kolbe A™ Index. It may not seem like it because "birds of a feather" do "flock together." Then again, you might discover you're one of those "fish out of water" who needs a better place in order to shine. Your unique Kolbe result taps into your underlying spirit, the very nature of who you are and what makes you tick. Your rare instinct-based talents show up on Kolbe's one-of-a-kind assessment of: Your FACT FINDER best way to gather information. Your FOLLOW THRU knack for storing information. Your QUICK START take on risks and uncertainties. Your IMPLEMENTOR way of handling tangible tasks. Kolbe explains why 95% of people wouldn't be able to succeed doing it your way. Kolbe.com - 30 Years - Validating Instincts

Introverts find energy in the inner world of ideas, concepts, and abstractions. They want to understand the "whys" of the markets; they contcentrate and tend to be reflective thinks. Introverts want to develop systems that inegrate or connect the information they they learn about the markets and use this information to make more informed decisions. iNtuituivetraders seek out patterns and relationships among the facts they have gathered. They trust hunches, or "gut feelings" when researching the markets. Chances are, they like using charts as indicators and as such spend a majority of their research looking at historical charts. Thinkers decide things impersonally based on analaysis, logic, and principle. They place great weight on objective criteria in making financial decision. They naturally see flaws and tend to be critical of research. Thinking traders prefer clear goals and objectives. Perceptive traders are curious, adaptable, and spontaneous. They start trading wanting to know everything about it, and often find it difficult to trade successfully. Perceptive traders often postpone doing research until the last minute. They are not lazy rather merely seeking informaiton up to the very last minute. How true, how true.

What a trooper, what a trooper!

it IS, isn't it. (that explains your market profile addiction and my "shoot from the hip" style) explains alot how two people skin the cat differently. Everyone here should take this assessment. They'll get a good idea as to who's crap they should consider using. BTW, how did you manage to copy and post your results??? :s

FRESH MEAT!!! jk, welcome aboard.

meh, I've come to terms with stuff like that. It does not bother me like it used to. I just look in the mirror and know who to blame.

PsychTrader - The Psychology Of Trading I did this one long time ago. username: guest password: 1234 I've also done KOLBE B assessment as well which I paid for, I think it was a KOLBE B test, either way, the results for that test were "inconclusive" basically saying I did not know who or what my strengths were. The one from eHarmony was fun, explains alot about my openess. their explaination: Introduction to Openness How firmly committed are you to the ideas and beliefs that govern your thinking and guide your behavior? Some people trust their current ideas and beliefs the way a climber trusts the mountain; whichever way they move, whether the climb is on a familiar trail or over new ground, there is something solid beneath them, something they count on. For others, new ideas, new solutions to old problems, new beliefs that replace tired convictions are like welcome wind in their sails. They can hardly wait to tack in a new direction and ride a new idea through uncharted waters. If it's new, it's interesting, and they're ready to explore. The following paragraphs describe your responses to new ways of thinking and believing. How do you handle new information? Are you more like the climber on a familiar mountain or a sailor with a tiller in hand and a fresh breeze to propel you? How you integrate and process new information about the world and about others is a core aspect of your personality. On the Openness Dimension you are: SOMETIMES CURIOUS, SOMETIMES CONTENT Words that describe you: * Accepting * Flexible * Educated * Self-aware * Middle-of-the-road * Proper * Distinctive * Indecisive * Adaptable A General Description of How You Approach New Information and Experiences Like someone who can sleep comfortably on either side of the bed, you are equally at home with ideas and beliefs that you have held for a long time and with new ways of thinking and believing that grow out of your intellectual curiosity. Your sense of who you are and what your place is in the world around you rests on values and principles that are the solid ground you walk upon. You've tested them, they work for you, and much of the time you are content to trust them, that is, until some provocative new idea slips in from a conversation, book or some flight of your active imagination. "Hmmmm. What's this. Never thought of it before." And off you go, exploring. Since you love to learn, you've always been teachable; you absorb new information, which means you are well-educated in things that matter to you. Sometimes your intellectual exploring will lead you back to where you started; the "next new thing" proves too shallow or impractical to you. But once in a while a new idea or belief will dislodge you from the ground you've stood upon; it is so compelling and persuasive that you step away from the tried-and-true and embrace this notion that is brand new to you. Because you hold both solid beliefs and are open to new ideas, you are accepting of other people and other ways of thinking and believing. You are flexible enough to listen to something new and different, or something outside of your comfort zone; if it works for you, you'll take it in, and if not, you'll let it go. In this sense, you know who you are: you are neither closed-minded nor wildly open-minded, but walk somewhere near the middle of the intellectual road. Negative Reactions Others May Have Toward Your Style of Thinking Not everyone will be thrilled by your flexible, middle-of-the-road ways of thinking and believing. A few people are so taken with flights of imagination into whatever is new that they might find your commitment to long-standing values and beliefs too confining, if not too boring. Oh well; so be it. They'll just have to be in free-flight without you. Others are content with the ideas that have served them and their culture well; they're not excited by the prospect of moving on. And some people are afraid of new ways of thinking because they are somewhat fragile; they have trouble maintaining their current worlds and don't want someone like you, for instance pushing out the edges of their intellectual cosmos. So don't be surprised if your solid values sometimes make people distrust you as an explorer, or if your flexible and open mind sometimes gets you criticized by people who walk away from the very same explorations that you find refreshing. Positive Responses Others May Have Toward You Many others will find you trustworthy and therefore an attractive companion on the intellectual journey. They will appreciate the combination in you of open-mindedness and a commitment to the tried-and-true. In an intellectual climate sometimes dominated by the extremes of either wild innovation or dug-in traditionalism, your moderate views and your proper acceptance of a wide range of possibilities will be a distinctive and refreshing quality. Because you join your curiosity to strong foundational ideas and beliefs and practical solutions to problems, people will trust your occasional explorations into new territories to be reliable, and not "something new for newness sake". You are accepting of others, flexible in your own intellectual commitments, well-informed in areas that matter to you, and comfortably aware of who you are and where you stand. This combination will make you a desirable companion on the intellectual journey for many, many people. All those explained many things about me as a person. Give it a shoot, other than the KOLBE test, they are FREE!!! also if you do decide to pay for the psychtrader assessment, there is a discount code, I don't know if it is still good but if you do try it, why not save 20%. 16PF, use D6048 for 20% off for psychtrader assessment profile. My psychtrader profile was INTP, I have not done a recent one, I will do that to see if there are any changes.

What was the ticker symbol again?

My approach, if he is to speak , just watch price action and volume, the smarter people who knows what the heck he's talking about will lead the way. I not only try to keep trading simple, but I'll dumb it down to my level of understanding.

try removing MACD from your charts if it is too difficult to understand. What you need to understand is price action and the relationship it has with volume. If you want to go even deeper, the psychology behind price and what causes it. hint, people cause price to move, not indicators. people use indicators as a reason to enter to make trade more measureable in terms of success and failure so they can make adjustments to their trading. Spoting where there is more buying then selling and vice versa is more important than knowing how to use MACD or any other indicator or method. some people swear by having an opinion about the markets, some swear by having no opinion about the markets. It really depends on your personality and temperment of what is best for you.

This has gotten me think. The point is not the tightness or loosness of the stop, its getting your trade to BE as soon as possible but also the risk involved to make that last bit. A couple of recent grain trades has gotten me to think about those trades, so thanks for being Devil's Advocate. The direction for both trades were correct The management of the beans trade was horrible. went long july corn around 427 (on 23 Jan 07)with a stop of 5 cents ($250), that got taken out the next day or so, but it was pretty quick. sit on hands and hum and ha about what corn is doing, not much, trading sideways. later beans made a move, jumped on around 748 (on 30 Jan 07), with a 10 cent stop ($500), the management was poor due to thoughts about keeping the small 8 cent profit that I had and thoughts about what beans may do, each down tick confirmed what I had in my head, what else to do but bail out. beans over 800 right now or $2500 from my entry per contract. that's besides the point. I'll use YM as an example of my madness. 10 risk 10 reward target 1:1 initial risk, reward ratio even if you scale out of a trade with multiple of 2 lots, you can still implement a BE trade by moving your stop, but I'll just use an all in, all out example. market goes +8 on your trade, now if you are hard headed and want those last few ticks, well, you know what you are. if you don't move your stop to BE, your risk has increased! for those last 2 ticks, you're willing to risk 18 ticks! whats that a 9:1 risk:reward, the trade will still cost you from your own account 10 ticks for find out, 8 from the market or $90 per contract. with the BE management, your risk now becomes 4:1, if you're willing to risk the 8 that you've gained for another 2 ticks, but what will it cost you from your own account to find out??? nothing other than commissions and possible "slippage", ok so a trade will never be risk free, but its been reduced big time!!! But the thing is willing to give up a winning trade for your target. Even if you scale out, this can still be implemented. 2 lot multiple. risk 10 or ($100 per 2 lots) half target +5 move stop BE -5 other half target your call, trade is risk free now. The issue at hand is getting stopped out for scratch trade and the market takes off. How to deal with that is a psychological issue, not a entry, exit technique or method. The size of your stop is a risk tolerance subject or what you feel is suitable for a trade to work out. The desire for the trade to work out will also affect your judgement of whether to move the stop or not and to what point. Hope for huge profits, expect a scratch trade. The worst case is you exerted some mental energy and it did not cost you too much money.

From what I recall hearing from someone, some of those locals are done after the morning session. Win or lose. I figure, why not emulate what they do, and believe me, it takes a lot of self discipline to say "I am not going to trade the afternoon session." When you have a family and kids, that will come naturally because all you want to do is spend time with them. Thinking of new ways to trade would be the least of your concern. I look forward to that day myself. Or do what JC and HS do, we did when I was there in Austin, TX. 2 hour lunch and be back for 1400h and look for plays in the last 2 hours of the session. Tiger Woods loves to tweak his swing from what I hear, even when its fine, he ended up being in a slump one season because he kept tweaking. Like that saying goes, "Don't fix it until its broke."

I just avoid the afternoon all together. (That is what I did from my best month) Give it a try, go do something else other than wanting to trade. At first, its hard to do because you have all these ideas you want to try out. That curiosity needs to be satisfied, and the end result may end up losing what you made in the morning. If you made money in the morning, trade smaller position in the afternoon. Now I know you use tick charts, just do a volume comparison with a time chart. More volume, more people at the party, people with BIG accounts. Heck I don't mind rubbing elbows with the rich and snub the poor. :p I snub myself all the time!

Post your trading desktop setup here of your charts to give new traders ideas. I myself have a 5 minute of ES, NQ, YM and ER2 along with TRIN, VIX, and PUT/CALL I trade using a 2 minute of YM with TICKS below for comparison. and volume. everything is lined up so to speak to see any divergences between the markets to spot which one is "leading"

"One man's meat is another man's poison." To each their own the saying goes. I'm just letting new trader's know because they try to mimick what everone else does, just giving them more ideas to play around with and make it their own. Been there, done that. Like I said before, I don't have levels ahead of time to buy or sell at, I just look for periods of quiet and volume contraction. It's bound to move sometime when the price cools down. (its just another way of saying I enter on pullbacks, but sometimes prices do not pullback, they just chop around in a tight range with little volume and then expand, so hence quiet period) Because that is what I look for, it happens all day long, getting a scratch trade to me is no big deal, and its no big deal if it takes me out and then ripes through the levels for a 20 tick move. Expect and accept that will happen. That is something no one can make you accept, it comes internally from the person themselves. But because the BE+1 was paid for by the market, and if it and when prices do move, getting in is just another commission away. The only thing that was wrong was the timing of the trade. There is no point if you cannot even trade a 1 lot to make money, trading more lots just gets you into more trouble if you have no clue how to monitor yourself. I had one week I went through that, its no big deal. The key thing is I'm still around with "chips" in front of me to come back. Either way, there are so few topics under money management, *scratches head*, yet that is the holy grail to trading. Entries are a dime a dozen. my ego could care less that it found a set-up that works X% of the time and it must let the world know about this amazing set-up. Heck, I know I can trade, I now need to learn better trade management methods to protect myself from losing my head and my money, again.

Just put my trade management idea to test. Besides my first trade mistake to start the day, oh great, it worked out just great. wanted to go short around 1010h, instead, I clicked the buy button because I got too excited. Hindsight says reverse trade and gone short anyways. -10 next trade, went long around trade went +7, move my stop to BE +1, stopped out for scratch trade third trade, went long, trade went +7, moved stop to BE+1, closed trade for +8 finished the day -1 tick to me that BE+1 is more a pscyhological trade, it's better the market pays for a scratch trade rather it come out of your own account because those commissions can sure add up and chew your profits to bits. I was more willing to make another trade knowing the market paid for my scratch trade. it really is the way that I trade that allows me to do stuff like this because it is not "set-up" based. I just identify volume contraction on a time chart and go from there. That happens all day long. Besides, the mistake trade, I'm very content with this method of trade management, there is nothing else better knowing you have a risk free trade once that stop has been moved to BE+1. either way I'm done for the day.

I can't remember where I had made a post regarding prop. trading firms and the brief time I spent there. There is one major advantage they get when it comes to NASDAQ stocks, they can purchase what are called "bullets" which gives the trader the privilage to short at the market without a down tick as it is requried for "public" traders. At the time it was $50 per ticker symbol, per day or somethng like that, I cannot remember exactly. What reminded me that was my brief 100 sahre trade in X, having read so much about X from the old school traders, I thought I have some fun with a short trade, my fill, 1 tick above the low of the day! Another reason NOT to day trade stocks on the short side.