Bear Mtn.

Obviously the average newbie is 50 to 500 times better off than I am.

Sorry, but that doesn't really make any sense to me. I'm not saying TRO is / is not a good coder (I have no coding abilities, so can't comment) or that he is / is not a good and successful trader (this thread gives me no clue - he just keeps saying "it's easy"). But, my point is this - if he can trade successfully without ANY INDICATORS... why is he churning out 'thousands' of unnecessary indicators to try and scrape donation money from newbies?

TRO - I've been following this thread with interest but I'm confused about this point, like Atto. Seems to me like you started the thread saying only look at price, no indicators required - but since then you post about new indicators and new versions of indicators 75% of the time and the other 25% you spend reminding us that price is ALL you need.....? Thanks BM

Tams, remember how we were posting yesterday that we thought the market might be going flat til Friday holiday...? :crap:

I would agree it kind of looks like that might be happening Tams, but I hope not! 3 more days of this... :missy:

Good advice ckait, I actually do this on a daily basis and as long as you manage the risk you take with that first entry then a little while in the red (as price hopefully retraces to a more favorable entry point) is usually a small price to pay for catching some good moves. As with lots of aspects of entries, this strategy's success comes down to confidence in your trading plan. Taking an average entry and / or increasing your stake / risk at a better level.. all this is undoubtedly nerve racking at times and it definitely requires commitment to your strategy and plan. Find that and the rest should come naturally.

First things first, when designing a stop strategy you have to bring yourself back to the notion of probabilities and that all we are working towards is trying to find an edge in this market - not an infallible solution. With that back in the forefront of your mind it is then hopefully possible to come up with rules for stop losses which focus on both controlling losses and allowing a suitable margin to keep good-trades running. Finding this balance is key, as the long, arbitrary stop is the friend of the 'holy-grail' trader who cannot bear a loss but will ultimately fail as they take too many huge hits in trying to find perfection in their trading plan. A perfect, save-every trade stop does not exist, but the trader who finds a stop strategy that truly suits their style and keeps their losses proportionally smaller than gains will always have a chance in the long run. Where this stop lands is completely different depending on how you trade but I think it is just as important to have very clear rules and guides in your trading plan as to how you place a stop as to how you find an entry. There is no hard and fast rule to placing stops, just as there is no set rule for finding profitable entries - there are infinite ways to enter trades and just as many ways to manage them. It is down to your own strategy, how much risk you can accept and how you wish to trade. Gifro, you are quite right to highlight the horrible event of getting stopped just prior to the market moving as you had expected. I think the best way to handle that is simply to make sure you have the stop in the 'right' place according to your trading plan, at least the feeling of having done-all-you-could can only help you get ready for the next trading opportunity. I had a very average day yesterday but it felt like a good one because on the road to my single, modest win my trade reversed to within ONE PIP of my stop - but held in. Now, this was not a particularly short stop BUT it was in the correct place - both by my trading rules and by the market and that made a small trade feel like a week-maker. Look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on this subject... BM

I looked at this thread because I was intrigued... I thought it might be a new style of indicator that asks YOU the questions: like "Do you really think this is a good time to go short?!" or "Are you seriously going to put your stop THERE?!" :pc guru:

Thanks for the video Swans. Re: yesterday.. don't worry I think everyone who reads that post will be saying "yes, yup, been there, yep, done that" as you describe your day unfolding! I have been working on trying to do the last (hardest) part of just leaving the computer and market well alone without trying to take revenge, and I'm slowly getting there now.... Hope you have a better day today. BM

Looks like a good layout Atto - your cumulative approach is slightly different from how I approached things so v.interesting. Look forward to seeing more. Thanks for sharing BM

Really interested to see this Atto as finding a way to accurately represent multi-entry/exit trades has been one thing I've struggled with. I now do this fairly manually which I think gives me an accurate way to benchmark these against simpler trades.. but like I say, look forward to seeing your setup or hearing how you handle these?

100% with you on that Scottie. I take pains to record all the setups which action on my rules - so if I miss an entry due to my own hesitation or for whatever reason, I still have evidence of my setup working (or otherwise). I then record results of my paper trading separately from trades I took, which still enforces a degree of accountability to the trading plan - which I think is very important. For me it comes down to body-of-evidence... the more you record and study your setup in action the better you can refine it and manage the trades you do get an entry into. So a missed trade, however successful, is really just another opportunity to train yourself for your next entry. It's not always easy to convince yourself into this positive mindset but well worth trying, imo as it will benefit your cash trades long term while frustration over missed opportunities will only force more errors and chasing on your part. :crap:

You are all welcome If anyone comes up with good additions to my basic record-keeping sheets then please do re-post them on here...

Thanks for sharing! I had to laugh after a while that approx every 5th picture is of Sylvie van der Vaardt.. bit of favoritism on the part of the editor if this list?!

Template attached. Hope it makes sense to everyone with a bit of playing around - just make sure to continue the formulas as you fill it in and everything should run smoothly. I just put 2 fictional trades on the tradesheet (one 'paper' one 'live') to give you an idea of how I personally fill it out. Also, I have a few beta things going on on my own version but if anyone else has ideas on stats / info they'd like to add or see calculated then lets hear them! I'm no Excel expert but always happy to try and create solutions... Bear Mtn Trade sheet.xls

Sure, send me a message with your email address and I'll send a blank copy over... (that goes for anyone who wants it, though I'm sure plenty people are already working with better)

I have only ever used it to sim-trade a few sporadic ideas, test out some EA's and throw on a few indicators for a quick look when I've spotted something potentially of interest on a forum. So, I have yet to find something to keep me using it (or seek out a supporting provider to take anything Live) but thanks for kicking this off euclid as it will be interesting to see what others are saying...

I have an Excel book which I've created to record each trade (Date/Time/Market/Setup/LongShort/EntryPrice/Stop/Stake/ProfitLoss) then columns for Trade Management (moves to stops limits, etc), comments and various other stats - for every trade. This means I can also keep track of 'paper' trades and cash ones, whilst keeping results separate. I then have a further sheet to summarize each traded day and then a 3rd one to summarise weeks. Keeping paper / cash separate also helps to establish how well I'm 'converting' setups into real trades when everything gets summarized. I have the whole thing automated to do the summaries etc once I put in the basics of each trade and I find it very helpful to keep track of everything. This may not be what you are after (you may want more emphasis on written info and descriptions of trades and days rather than strict record keeping) but thinking through and drafting something like the above could be a good starting point for you...

I'm enjoying reading about your progress Swans and I hope you have a good day in the market today. Your point about reviewing trades and 'what does a good one look like' caught my attention... One habit I've got into is to take a screen grab at the end of each good, positive and well-executed day and annotate my trades with entries, gains, strategy and anything else relevant... I then save these jpeg's in a folder and I tell you, are they ever good to look back at sometimes when you've had a bad day! They can really be a confidence booster as in 'yes, I can do it' because its the visual proof for your brain that you already have done it (sometimes) and therefore you can do it again. Makes you REALLY want to cut out the mistakes of your bad day and start generating some more screenshot-worthy trades. I guess the same would maybe work for learning from losers - although personally I like to review them immediately after the event, see if there are any useful lessons and then forget / move on asap

I found this post on "CouldaWouldaShoulda (The Wyckoff Forum)" interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Topic Of The Month June, 2009"

I quote from Eminis Global... "It's just that I'm excited by the prospect of what I'm about to reveal. It sounds too good to be true, I know. But in the course that's to follow, I intend to prove it to you. I will show you how you can take advantage of this opportunity quickly, easily, and without any risk." ...just those 3 words I put in bold make this a non-starter in my opinion I'm afraid, Jonathan. The less risk these companies say is required, the harder you should avoid them - in my experience!

I quote from Eminis Global... "It's just that I'm excited by the prospect of what I'm about to reveal. It sounds too good to be true, I know. But in the course that's to follow, I intend to prove it to you. I will show you how you can take advantage of this opportunity quickly, easily, and without any risk." ...just those 3 words I put in bold make this a non-starter in my opinion I'm afraid, Jonathan.

Not sure what you mean? Is this the yellow tag saying '-> Wait' or am I missing something else... thanks.

Not really Eiger... what I meant was more that within any trend (this one being bullish and with established background as you pointed out) there will obviously be short term moves to the downside periodically. What I was wondering was if forest was trying to catch one of these by studying buying action / volume. If so, wouldn't this be legitimate - as long as expectation as to the potential risk / reward are kept in check? Hamburger vs. Steak as Tams put it, right enough... but I just wondered if forest really was trying to order the hamburger (and he was)

Good post Eiger, but doesn't forestang's goals for the trade (i.e. what sort of entry was he looking for - a quick retracement or something more substantial) come into it? If he was looking for a day position then yes the background would be critical in going with/against trend. Maybe you could enlighten us as to what sort of position you were aiming to get into forest? Although I have a guess at an answer already considering your on a H1 bar...