brownsfan019

Mal - I think you can use a program like SnagIt w/o worrying about a virus slipping in. :p

Interesting cooter... very well said.

That is interesting Cooter. As for the dissection of this futures trading 'pyramid', my understanding is that you basically have: 1) The exchanges that provide the marketplace. 2) The firms that clear there. 3) The FCM's that either clear and/or work with the firms in #2. 4) IB's are marketing co's of FCM's. They simply provide the customer service to you and market their own name, but all back office is handled elsewhere. You'll find some FCM's that only deal with IB's and they focus on the back office items. You'll also find some FCM's that market themselves and/or work with IB's. The most important part of this equation is that the more firms and people involved, the more costs that must be passed on somewhere... I sometimes get broker prospecting calls and when I tell them my rate is under $4/round trip and that they need to beat it or we can end the conversation, many retail brokers don't even understand how rates can be that low. Well, the more hands in the pot require higher costs. I recently had a guy pitching me $25/round trip. :rolleyes: I just laughed....

Cooter, According to the NFA, they are registered as an FCM. http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Details.aspx?entityid=0326789&rn=Y. Assuming that is correct, that would mean they can perform trading operations at a level higher than an IB. How all the back office items work, I am not sure on exactly. I understand that an IB (introducing broker) simply markets their own name and handles customers, but all the trading goes thru another company, such as an FCM. Now, how exactly Open ECry handles it all, I am not sure. Very good question and observation, but I have heard mostly good things about Open ECry and thought their software was very nice, esp at no extra fee.

I saw the threads in here and thought I would ask about the ag's. I looked at them at one point, but I think the lower volume did not appeal to me. I suppose when trading size that the indexes and EC are probably best.

I can send a PM with no problem once I get into the PM's. If I click that icon that I took a screenshot of, I get the following error (see screenshot). It looks like that when you click that icon thing, the link is trying to take you somewhere that does not exist on the site.

Soul - when I click the icon for new PM's (see screenshot) I got an error message. When I click "Private Messages" I am able to get to the PM's. Anyone else have this problem?

RE: Infinity's platform - I have not tried it. I contacted them awhile back regarding commission quotes and they could not get in the ballpark of what i was paying, let alone beat them. RE: Open ECry - I have demo'd it and it is nice. It depends on what you need, but there are some useful features on it and it should have or will have soon MIT orders if you need those. I believe it has trading from the chart as well. So, it's a good platform if looking for a decent trading platform with charting at no extra fee(s). And their commission rates are very good as well. They are an FCM so there is no 'middle man', i.e. an IB. I would get a demo version if interested.

Are you trading the ag's live tin? If so, what kind of slippage are you seeing? What are the best times to trade the ag's? In other words, when are these things moving?

My reco's for futures brokers are: Mirus Futures http://www.mirusfutures.com ProActive Futures http://www.proactivefutures.com Open ECry http://www.openecry.com For trading software, I continue to use and recommend T4. http://www.ctsfutures.com/content/t4/ It is not the cheapest software around, but the speed and hosting is top of the line. By hosting I mean that your orders are actually stored at CTS Futures (designers of T4). Should your internet go down and/or the exchange, your orders are still working. For me, that is very important as internet outages are inevitable. By holding your orders on their servers, they are able to offer additional services, such as MIT (Market If Touched) orders whereas some software packages cannot do that b/c the order resides at the exchange and some exchanges do not support MIT's or other certain types of orders. Mirus and ProActive both currently support T4, although it may be referred to under a different name. Mirus calls the platform Dorman Direct and ProActive currently calls it T4. Note - Open ECry supplies their own trading software at no cost, which is an attractive option depending on your needs. The platform is nice as well, so it's a great option, esp for those looking for inexpensive platforms. Recommendations posted on April 8, 2007. Feel free to PM me with any personal questions or to confirm my reco's at a later time. Businesses and needs change over time, so it is completely reasonable for my reco's to change before altering this post. Please perform your own due diligence before starting a new business relationship.

Since I am too lazy to look it all up, can you guys give me a quick comparison of ag volume vs. the index e-mini's? Just curious what are the more popular ag products and what the volume is like there. Thanks.

TRADING STYLE: For purposes of discussion here, day trading only. TIMEFRAMES: 'Lower' Volume Based Charts (VBC's). FAV MARKET: E-mini's and the Euro FX contract. TRADING PLATFORM: TradeStation. BROKER: Mirus Futures using the T4 trading platform. http://www.mirusfutures.com/ & http://www.ctsfutures.com/content/t4/ TRADING TOOLS: VBC's, WRB's, and candlestick analysis. FAV SETUPS: The ones that make the most money with the least amount of heat. I do not have 'different' setups or plays - the entry, stop and exit are clearly defined, although I do not know going into the trade which one will 'pop' the quickest. BEST TRADING ADVICE: Treat trading as a business and it will pay you like a business. Treat it like a hobby and it will pay you like a hobby.

I'm surprised there isn't a rule of thumb with this. I just assumed it would be either it's ok or it is not. Probably will just get 2 sticks to be on the safe side. Another question - I know price of RAM fluctuates, so is now a good time? I thought the price was higher a few months ago when I looked at the 1 gig stick. The one I need is currently $64.99/stick at crucial (http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?imodule=CT12864AC53E) and I thought that was lower than a few months ago, but could be wrong.

Cooter - that's what I used to find the initial link I posted, but not sure if that utility just checks to see the spec's of the RAM you need or if it looks for compatibility as well.

I have found the sim for T4 (futures trading platform) to be excellent when compared to real-time trades. I use that through Mirus Futures. http://www.ctsfutures.com/content/t4/

I am planning to upgrade the RAM on a laptop that I recently purchased. The question I have is - is it better to keep all the RAM sticks identical (manufacturer, make, model) or does it not matter? The current setup is that there is a 1 gig stick and 1 available slot for additional RAM. The max it can handle is 2 gig. The current stick is some off-brand that you normally find in prebuilt computers. Since the cost of new RAM is not expensive, using 2 identical sticks is not a problem. But, if there's no difference, then I'll just buy 1 stick. Let me know computer guru's! Thanks! If it helps, here's a link to the type of RAM that I need: CT12864AC53E - 1GB, 200-pin SODIMM , DDR2 PC2-4200 from Crucial.com

Pivot - that's a great chart and had I been using that chart setup, I would have exited my entire position at the close of that WRB and then waited for another reason to enter a trade. As you can see, just a bunch of chop followed. For me, that is much easier than to exit some or none based on the first WRB and then wait to see what happens. Regarding the previous post, I get what you are saying and most of it makes sense, at least in a textbook fashion. The important component not being discussed though is how the trader's emotions impact the decision making process. As much as we all would like to say 'I am an emotionless trader' unless you are a robot, that's not the case. And I don't believe we ever really become emotionless. I think we get better over time and with repetition, but that aspect will never leave any trader. With that being said, that is why I believe exiting on the first WRB, regardless of timeframe, should be a strong consideration when trading WRB's. In the end however, each trader must see what fits their personality and then test it, test it and test some more. You've shown us a 30 min chart here. I could not imagine trading on a 30 min chart. 2 candles every HOUR? I think I might fall asleep and then miss out on the one trade that day. That's not to say that there's a problem with the 30 min chart, I personally would have trouble trading off of it. I guess I just like more action and stimuli. It's hard to put into words, but I enjoy the 'action' of the markets and enjoy being able to participate in that action numerous times in one day. Hence the reason for the smaller VBC charts. With that being said, I am comfortable trading on those charts simply b/c I understand how they react and move. By trading on lower VBC charts, I am able to take multiple trades in a day (which keeps my brain into it) and I am able to hit those singles all day long. Keep in mind as well, I normally just trade the AM session, which is now 7am - Noon EST. I say now, b/c I moved the open up an hour b/c the EC was providing some nice moves in the 7am hour that I did not participate in b/c I was not at my computer. So, by trading 5 hours a day, I cannot trade on a large timeframe or VBC b/c if the one golden trade shows up at 3pm, I am not here.

Good chart Pivot. Here's what I see and correct me if I am wrong - when looking for multiple WRB exits, you are trying to catch the bigger move of the day. To obtain a 2-3 WRB exit move, you are looking for a fairly substantial move, as evidenced by the chart you provided. There's nothing wrong with that at all. And if you can catch the bigger moves when they are present and take small losses on the 'smaller' moves, it should yield a profitable result in the end. My take is that while we all want to hit that home run trade - you know, the EC trade that goes for 60, 80+ ticks (at $12.50/tick) - that is not realistic over the long haul. What I mean is that if you simply miss just one or two of these huge moves, you now have the odds working against you making money. These type of moves do not appear every day, so you have to ride them when they do show up. And that sounds great, esp in hindsight, but miss just one of these and your results will dramatically vary on what you thought you were going to make. Since I know that the odds of me catching the giant move all the time is slim (for a number of reasons), my game is much better suited to catching the 8-12 tick moves on the EC and then simply looking for a reason to enter the next trade. Keep the losses small (5 ticks or under usually) and do not get greedy. I remember when my dad was teaching me card games growing up and he always said to me - do not get greedy. As soon as you do, that's when a fatal mistake will be made. I believe that holds true in the markets as well - never think you got it figured out and never get greedy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy trading and making money, but to think you are going to catch 20, 30+ moves on the EC with regularity is simply unrealistic in my opinion; however, catching an 8 pt move a couple times a day is very realistic. And catching an 8 pt move, three times a day = $300/contract. You can trade less than 10 contracts each trade and make more money per day than most people will. I think it always helps to put things in perspective. Yes, we all want that giant home run trade and be able to look back one day and think we just nailed that one, but that's no good if you cannot do that regularly. Anyways, it's late, time for bed. If nothing else Pivot, we are giving two great arguments on how to possibly trade WRB's for our audience.

baseball - most futures traders do not trade via an online form, like stocks. Since these markets can move very quickly, most traders use a stand alone program that runs on your computer. The biggest issue with using a purely online order entry is that by the time your order gets through to where it needs to go, it may be way too late for that order to execute timely. Most software platforms offer a trial so you can see it for yourself. I would recommend a platform called T4 (http://www.ctsfutures.com/content/t4/) I use T4 through Mirus Futures. They call it Dorman Direct b/c T4 allows each broker to put their own company name on the platform. And Mirus is an IB for Dorman Trading. I know, very confusing in the beginning.

Pivot - since my entries have nothing to do with WRB's or long shadows, it's not an impact there. As for exits, that does happen and I may trail my stop based on the candle formation. Ideally the candle closes as a WRB, but it is possible for a retracement in that candle, which is what the long shadow represents. I understand what you are saying about exits, but the charts that I have posted today and recently are VERY common for my trading - where 1 or 2 WRB's is about all I will get before any type of retracement may occur. I don't like sitting and taking heat on the retracement hoping price goes back in my direction, so I exit fully at the first WRB that meets my criteria and then I WANT price to retrace some and either give me another trade in the same direction as the first trade or a trade in the opposite direction. The WRB exit strategy that I use keeps me nimble and able to quickly adapt to changing conditions, such as that NQ chart that I posted. In a span of about 4-5 minutes price went up and then back down and closed at about the same level before this little pop up then down occured. And, to be honest, I have never been good at trailing a stop. For me, it's a losing proposition each and every time - either you get out too soon or too late, and rarely ever get out at the most ideal spot simply b/c you are trailing behind the current price. WRB's on the other hand have been giving me exits at/near the high or low that move. Not the low/high of the day, but low/high of that move as I've shown in chart annotations. It's important for others reading this to understand that while we both use WRB's, we are using them very differently. I think our theories are the same, but implementing the theory into our own trading methodology is different. I am very confident in my setups - entry and initial stop. I have never found a good exit strategy, until studying the WRB's. And I've looked at MANY ways to exit - fixed target, trailing, fibs, high/low of current day/yesterday/last week/etc., pivots, etc. etc. etc. etc. In my opinion at this point in time, nothing has compared to WRB's in terms of exiting trades. Nothing.

Thanks for stopping by mroalan and make sure to check our discussion on WRB's over here: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/wide-range-bodies-big-candles-1480.html

Here's an NQ chart from the last 15 min's of the trading session (4pm - 4:15pm EST). As you can see, or at least what I saw, was a nice move up just before 4pm and the WRB gave you a great exit and that trade took approx 1 1/2 minutes. Then, if you short on the down move, a couple more WRB's appear... And that would have taken approx 1 1/2 minutes as well. I've also attached a 3 minute chart of the EXACT same price action going during those 15 min's. I don't know about you, but I kinda like the VBC chart better. :p Pivot - do those charts help seeing them side-by-side? To me, on the 3 minute chart, you had chop. We are only looking at a 15 min timeframe, so the 3 minute chart doesn't have the time to do anything really. On a 3 minute chart, the end of the day does not do anything for me. That EXACT same timeframe on a VBC chart however, produced TWO potential profitable trade setups....

Pivot - yes, you were the one that got my attention on WRB's and for that, I am eternally grateful. And that's serious. Yes, with VBC charts, looking at them in hindsight is only so good. But watching real-time can be a real eye opener. I am using WRB's purely for exits and exits only. I understand the theory behind them, which is why I am using them as exits. I view the WRB simply as a temporary imbalance between the bulls and the bears, which most likely will be 'corrected' or brought back into balance; therefore, my exit is at the close of the WRB with a market order. Right now, just one and so far, no plans to change that. Since I am trading on 'smaller' VBC charts, getting multiple WRB's that do not threaten my stop level is not realistic. I'm looking for a quick pop and then out. I have no problem re-entering the trade, so this works for me. If looking for a bigger move or 'home run' as I would call it, they way I trade would not work. I look to hit singles and the occasional double all day long. And the reason I can do this is simple - my initial stops are very small to begin with, so to keep the risk/reward in check, most WRB's are great exits once they reach a minimum profit level. I mentioned this in another thread, but I have a minimum level that must be reached before considering a WRB. This is the result of many hours of testing and research based on how I trade. For example, in the YM, price must go to a positive 8 ticks in my direction before a WRB can be considered for an exit. Once price touches +8, the first WRB that appears is the exit, even if that occurs in the process of reaching that +8. The reason behind this is that I found a 'technical' WRB may form right after I enter, but not provide enough acceptable profit at that time. This WRB does however provide the chance to move the initial stop. So, a good majority of my trades that 'lose' are at break-even +/- 1 or 2 ticks. I will take that risk/reward, aka odds, all day long.

I was afraid someone would mention that 2am EST thing... That's a deal killer for me. As much as I love trading, adjusting my life and sleep schedule is just not an option right now and probably never. I can see why the Euro open is important.

Pivot - I will get some charts up later today or Fri since it's a holiday. Regarding your question, the best thing I can suggest is simply pull up a VBC chart on your platform. Put them side by side and see how the chart dynamic changes. I think visually that the VBC charts stress the the importance of the WRB more. The reason being that since the volume is 'smoothed' out, in order for a WRB to in fact appear, there has to be some serious volume in a very short burst; whereas a time chart may simply be showing a temporary 'cooling off' period between the bulls and bears. That's not to say that one WRB is better than the other, but I think the WRB theory easily translates over to VBC charts. It would ultimately depend on how each trader uses the charts and the information in front of them, so what I 'see' may be of no use to you. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong, it just means that I see a very useful feature of WRB's on VBC's. I attached an EC chart from just this morning on a long trade. As you can see, the exit was a matter of 3 ticks from the high of that move, which is coincidentally the high of the day as well. Not to say that will hold or is important, but here's another chart where the WRB was very good at finding the highs of the current 'move'. Now, how I define the 'move' is probably different than most here. I am simply looking to get the most bang for my buck quickly. The chart that I attached is about 45 min's worth of data, but the actual long trade was about 15 min's. The net result was plus 8 points, which is not huge, but if you look at that chart, that's all that was there in this move for me. Sometimes we will get a pullback and then continue back up, or we simply start a new move down as in this example. Either way, the WRB got me out at an ideal area with practically no threat to my stop loss area at all. I like those trades! Note: There was some econ news at 7:00am EST which helped provide the EC a 'reason' to move. Before trading the EC, make sure you know exactly when econ announcements are as this market can be much more volatile during these releases than other markets, such as the indexes.