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brownsfan019

Market Wizard
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Everything posted by brownsfan019

  1. Hey guys, Thanks for the input. Hopefully the doc will stop by and give us her opinion as well! I agree that you cannot extract all the profits, all the time. And Walter was right, the income being generated from trading was much more than when I was a broker working 70 hr work weeks, so life should be good, right? I know, from a birds eye view, that makes perfect sense and to look at it right now, on a Sunday night, sounds great to me as well. Come Monday though... if a trade just takes off... the battle ensues - call it greed vs. realism. Realism states that I will not extract every last penny all the time. Greed says to get it and get it now. It's a wonderful psychological battle and I guess if the problem is whether I made $XX,XXX this month vs. $XX,XXX last month, it's a good problem to have. Now the pursuit is to push those X's a little further and debate about making $XXX,XXX vs. $XX,XXX a month!!!!
  2. tin - thanks for sharing, that was a good read. For me, this part of the biz is the hardest part - realizing that you will never take maximum profits all the time. I'm not anal in many things in my life, but my trading biz is one of those things that I constantly want to improve on and take to even a higher level. Of course, just taking more profits when they are there is the simple solution, right? One question tin (not sure if this thread is best or not) - how do you define 'weakness' when you are in a profitable trade and looking to consider a quick exit? Like I mentioned in the other thread, I am terrible at trailing (or maybe it's just the whole premise that doesn't sit well with me) and would be curious how you quickly flatten a position.
  3. Jerry, I don't know much about VWAP, so can't speak there. You bring up some interesting points however in connection with range days and I'm sure many would welcome a new thread on this subject for all of us to learn more. I've often thought of knowing when a range day is likely vs. a volatile day as the holy grail to be honest. If you want to share, get a discussion going and we can all benefit!
  4. Hi Doc, Good to have you here. In another thread - http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/wide-range-bodies-big-candles-1480.html - towards the last few pages I started to discuss the challenges I was having with my exit method. In a nutshell, the one glaring weakness I have in trading is always wanting more on trades that provided more (in hindsight of course), but at the same time, making money on days when those moves are just not there. I know there's many different ways to try to figure out when these moves will occur, but for sake of discussion here, let's assume that very few people can time when the big moves are coming and when they are not. So my question is - how do you train your brain to accept your trades as they are? In other words, how do I train my brain to accept the fact that sometimes trades will continue to move in my direction after I've already exited a position? I find myself on days like last Wed where I went long the ES at 1518 and exited at +2.75 to end up seeing at the end of the day it was up almost 20 pts from my entry getting frustrated. I have ways to jump back on and continue taking little chunks of that move, but of course I think - how nice would it have been to been long ONCE and pocket almost 20 pts. Then there's days where taking 2 or so each trade is what you'll get. And I know that those days are more likely than what we saw on Wed. I know that and understand that. Easy to sit here now and type that. But in the heat of the moment, as you know, your brain can play some wonderful games with you... So doc, what's a guy to do? Thanks for your help!
  5. Pivot - it's not that I cannot get back into a trending trade, it's a matter of the mental game that goes on when you are waiting and hoping that a WRB appears. I understand that if you use WRB's in the way that you and Mark do, a WRB is not far behind. But I was looking for more of a 'pop' by using WRBs. I should stress that trending days are where I can easily make the bulk of my income. Now, before you ask what's the problem then, the problem is really a matter of 'settling' for approx 2 ES pts per trade and re-entering during trend moves or trying to get that 10+ trade. That's more of a mental thing than anything else, but my hope was that visual WRB's might aid in that struggle. So the struggle that took place while allowing the market to take me out was that I wasn't sure that it would. :rolleyes: In other words, if my interpretation of a visual WRB did not appear, I would have to manually make the choice to flatten or let the stop be hit. And of course watching a trade go +4 into -1.5 is a whole other mental game altogether.
  6. Mark - wow, thanks for sharing, great post. You are correct that any exit method can get frustrating at times. And having a re-entry method or Plan B is just as important. My own limited personal experience using WRB's in the way that I did (visual inspection) led to frustrating days recently. Perhaps I am being too nearsighted and placing blame where it is not due, but in my crazy head, this makes sense. For me, it makes sense simply b/c prior to trying this visual WRB thing out, while exits were not perfect by any means, they were (in hindsight) 'easier' (at least for me mentally). What I mean is, by having a mapped out target as you mentioned, it was easier for me to accept how the trade could go. With a WRB, I am waiting (and hoping) that a WRB appears on my timeframe. As I've said before, if a WRB does not appear while the trade is moving in your favor, there has to be a plan B, even if that plan B is to eventually take a stop out. I really like how Pivot says we need to surrender to the market. That makes so much sense and I get it... however, putting that into motion in real-time when you have very limited time to make a decision is not always easy. Maybe trading on higher timeframes could yield different results, but my entry strategy works best on shorter timeframes or VBCs. I also like Mark the idea of mapping a trade out prior to entering it, but to be honest - that does not work too well for me either. I do that on stock swing trades, but with intraday futures trading, it's a little harder to do on the fly for me. I understand you can look at pivots, previous days stuff, WRBs, etc. etc. but then you end up with a chart cluttered with lines. Of course one of those lines will prove to be the best exit but odds are you will have one hit if there are lines everywhere. In the end, as I've mentioned previously, I like to keep things simple. My charts are simple, my entries while simple are effective and that is exactly how I like it. I was hoping that a visual WRB exit plan may also fit into my simple plan, but I think the additional stress from hoping a WRB appears vs. just taking a set profit and looking to re-enter is just not worth it. But that was the goal this entire discussion - to share my experiences in using WRB's in a very simple way. To see how practical and useful I could make them while merging into an existing trading plan.
  7. Maybe I will pop into to see the good doc! Thanks Coot!
  8. I wanted to respond to some of the great posts here recently since a few have made a very conscious effort to contribute... From walterw: Walter - while I have never given the exact entry method I use, I have shared more on this forum than anywhere else. There's a couple charts of mine with actual screenshots floating around here somewhere. I know some might say just share everything, but to be perfectly honest, I guess that's the business side of me - not wanting to divulge the exact recipe that's taken me years and thousands of dollars to construct. From pivotprofiler: I agree... Simple is good. And since I am terrible at trailing stops, a set profit target once again is at the forefront. From pivotprofiler: Pivot, you may be right, only time will tell. I think after looking at this more this week, I am definitely not a trailing stop trader. That's for sure. A set profit target is the next logical strategy then. From pivotprofiler: That advice seems awfully familiar. Oh yeah, I think I was trying to myself the same thing in the Blackjack strategy thread! :rolleyes: You are right PP, I can't jump back and forth on these exits and at this point, it's time to move past WRB's for me. From NihabaAshi: Mark - once again you show us the light. You've shown me here that there's more to WRB's than I was hoping for and while that is good to know, it's not for me at least not now. From pivotprofiler: You are right PP, can't keep changing. What has changed? Good question... I think that we've had some great volatility and moves in recent memory and I am not taking advantage of those as much as I should be. On smaller range days or tight volatility, the WRB's the way I was using them work pretty good. Maybe there's something there.... If able to distinguish when we have strong volatility and when we don't, I could have 2 different exit strategies. From pivotprofiler: By the definition you are using, this is correct. The problem I had with that type of calculation is that I was easily taken out of trades WAY early than I already was. I personally did not like this hard calculation in terms of WRB's. ==================== Sorry I didn't respond to every comment, but you guys get the idea. In summary, I believe that with the proper research and education, WRB's could easily be implemented in a trading plan. I personally was in search of a better exit method and that's it. I have no intention or desire to change my entry methods at all. I find my entries to be my strongest part of my trading currently in terms of solid entries and protective stops that are respected. Maybe I'll start a new thread on the exit strategy being used. My only reservation is that the topic has been hashed over here before and I'm not looking to reopen the can of worms of set profit targets vs. trailing stops for exits. I feel like a relationship is ending here... But, it's just the end of the WRB pursuit of happiness for myself. Maybe this thread will die, maybe PP and Mark will keep it going. Hopefully my contributions to this thread has been a worthwhile read for those following. As much as I may want to check the WRB's out on my charts or see the screenshots here, I have to back away from the WRB's and take a break. I need to enter a WRB detox program. Once again, thanks to those that have helped and contributed to the thread, esp Pivot and Mark. This thread would have died a long time ago w/o you guys sharing information.
  9. You said it Fish! In my pursuit of the perfect exit strategy, I opened a can of worms. As I mentioned above, WRB's should merit your attention if you are willing to dissect them as Mark has. I was taking page 1 of the book and applying it. That didn't quite work. Perhaps when I am having one of those moments you talk about Fish, I will revisit WRB's but this thread will serve as a quick reminder to me that based on me and my trading, using the 'visual' WRB as I have tried to here, didn't always go as planned. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it was just a bit of a mental issue for me. Others may find it works just fine for them.
  10. Hey guys, Lots been going on here tonight I see. I'll delve into this more tomorrow sometime, but I think after reading Mark's post (the WRB guru) it's clear that to fully utilize the WRB's in the context as Mark and/or PP do, more work and analysis is involved. Now, let me explain a few things before any chastising commences - I've been trading for years now. Exits have always been my crutch. As PP said, one day method A looks great and the next day it looks like junk. I get that. I stumbled across WRB's through this forum and elitetrader. It peaked my interest. Since I am a simple guy when it comes to trading (or at least try to), I thought I would take a look at these WRB's and see if I could use them in a way that I could utilize them. Spending another year of my life studying WRB's and/or VSA is not an option. In the end, I was simply looking to supplement or replace my existing exit strategy. And as mentioned, some days the visual WRB's worked like a charm and other days like Wed left me very frustrated. Call it a learning process in motion if you will. I'm not normally one to take something I read on a forum to heart and put it in motion, but I did here with my own little version of WRB's. And it's now apparent to me that unless I am willing to put forth the time and effort as Mark has to study these, it's going to be a mental battle. A battle on days like Wed where I was long at 1518 and closed around 1535.... That's a difficult mental battle to hae when your entry was in hindsight incredible, yet your P&L did not reflect that. I understand that some days there won't be much to take when you want bigger moves. As I've mentioned a number of times here, in the end, it's all a giant mental game. And for me personally, not taking more out of a move that goes almost TWENTY ES pts in your favor is a battle that I cannot win. That's just me. Some guys won't bat an eye as long as they turned a profit, but I always push myself, esp in my trading business. I won't settle for 2-3 pts on a 20 pt move and be content. Again, it's not me. OK, this post has gotten longer than I thought. Off to watch the Cavs hopefully beat the Pistons and then to bed.
  11. Some sort of annual get together would be a neat idea if there was support behind it from the members. Someone would have to step up to organize it, but if the desire was there, could be a great idea. Not sure if there's enough members and/or interest now, but maybe an idea for the back burner.
  12. PP - I appreciate the comments as always. You are right, trying to figure out exactly how to exit is a difficult task. As you said, some days WRBs work well, other days staying the trade longer is better, etc. etc. And especially after a day like yesterday where my initial long entry was nice and to extract a small portion of the move, that can bit you in the butt to say the least. As I said, I'm not 100% sure that WRB's work well enough into how I trade to be comfortable with them. There are 2 glaring issues surrounding WRBs for me: 1) WRB does not appear when trade moves in your favor. You can patiently wait, but if nothing shows, nothing shows. There needs to be a plan B in place. And what that plan B is, I'm not sure. 2) WRB takes you out prematurely. There are a variety of ways to work around this as well, but as you said PP, some days taking 3 WRB's will work, some days 2 and some days the first WRB is all that you can get... I've yet to find a good screener for when to take the first WRB and when to take more than one. I think the WRB's have very strong merit and consideration if it can work with your trading or become your trading. I have only been using WRB's as an exit method, so perhaps that is part of the issue at hand. I don't have the desire to learn an entire new method like VSA purely for the purposes of using that in conjunction with WRB's purely for exiting purposes. That seems like a lot of work and hours of study in an attempt to refine the exit method. If I was just starting out and looking for something to grab a hold of, perhaps that could work.
  13. You could hand them out at the first annual TL golf outing. Just call me the idea man. :rolleyes:
  14. Wave - thanks for the comments, a few of them made sense to me. :p I am a candlestick trader by trade. I came across WRB's here on TL and have provided as much feedback as I can here and the conclusion I came to today was that perhaps I was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I'll provide some updates as the days go by.
  15. Pivot, OK, here's what I interpreted from your posts... (sorry if this is oversimplified) If you are long and get a WRB that is bullish on high volume, that is probably a reason to stay in the trade, as long as the volume is not 'too much'. (which I could use clarification on - how much volume on WRB is too much??). Now, we can also assume that the majority of WRB's will in fact have higher volume than the preceding candles. So the question is - how much more volume would you like to see to constitute staying in the trade, but not too much to constitute exiting the trade? Hopefully that makes a little sense. Basically, in terms of numbers (easy for me to grasp) how much volume should a WRB have to stay in the trade when comparing to previous candle(s) and how much volume is an indication that too much came through and it's time to exit? Side note: exits have always been my crutch. I can get into trades easily and have an ideal protective stop in place. It's always been a matter of taking as much as possible out of the trade, but I guess that's what we all want. For example, today the initial long I showed here was 1518. It would have been very nice to have stayed long all day somehow... BUT, there are plenty of days where taking 2-4 pts each trade is all that the market is willing to give. Side note #2: in examining exits quite extensively today and looking at the many, many ways to possibly exit, I am leaning towards just using candles once again. I use candles for my entries and stops, so perhaps I was over complicating things by trying to force WRB's into my analysis. Keep it simple, right? This may end up being a new thread altogether, but on trades where there is a larger move (in hindsight) using more candlestick analysis yielded quite a bit more profit and about the same profit on smaller moves as WRB's.
  16. James - nice logo! Now you just need to get that on some polo shirts and send a shirt to your premium members!
  17. You know Fish, I think that sentence is what is key through all of this... What exactly are you trying to capture - the big moves or take smaller chunks... Such an important piece of the puzzle. For me, it's easy to say now that I would like to still be long from 1518 and ride that up to the high of the day, but we all know that's not realistic. The dominant idea being that taking 2-3 pts multiple times per day is much easier (on me) than trying to swing for the grand slam. The reason for that analysis is: 1) Going into a trade and looking for 6, 8+ ES pts is just not realistic for the way I trade. Reason being that I already KNOW that there will be plenty of trades that go for +2, +3 or +4 and retrace. 2) If certain parameters are met, re-entry can be a possibility as well. For sake of discussion, we'll say that if the trade pulls back to a certain level, I'll look to re-enter. 3) Taking smaller chunks throughout the day is easier on me mentally than trying to take that one huge chunk.
  18. Here's a couple charts from my ES trade this morning. CHART ONE: HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW IS THE WRB EXIT THAT I EXITED ALL OF MY CONTRACTS ON. CHART TWO: SHOWS AFTER 40 MIN'S OF CONSOLIDATION, ANOTHER BULLISH PUSH TO THE UPSIDE THAT *COULD* HAVE RESULTED IN ANOTHER 3 PTS IN MY FAVOR. CHART THREE: THERE IS NO CHART THREE RIGHT NOW. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE REST OF THE DAY AND IF THIS LONG (AT 1518.00 BY THE WAY) WAS A PHENOMENAL ENTRY THAT COULD HAVE YIELDED PROFIT ALL DAY OR IF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A ONE OR TWO POP UP TRADE. TIME WILL TELL.
  19. Pivot - I have a question/favor to ask - if you have time, can you create a post on how to interpret WRB's as continuation vs. exiting points in a way that someone (like me) that knows nothing on VSA could understand and possibly put to work? I'll be up front - I really don't have a desire to learn VSA inside and out purely for this purpose. I'm just being honest. But perhaps you can take some of that knowledge and transpose it over in this thread for those of us that like WRB's, but not necessarily looking for a whole new ball of wax with VSA. Part of the reason for this request is an ES trade from this morning. I'll post some screenshots here in a bit.
  20. Since this is obviously money you need quick access to if need be, just buy a short-term CD or find a good savings/money market. One grand of your daughter's money is not to be played with. Be a man and play with your own money. Your daughter's is just that - hers.
  21. This is just incredible - make sure to watch the video!! ======================= LINK About a year ago I gave a presentation to a group of journalists about gadgets of the future and showed a video about a theoretical multi-touch computing system. When asked when we would see something like that in the wild, I optimistically ballparked 5-7 years. You can imagine my surprise when I walked into a room at Microsoft and found a fully functioning Microsoft Surface Computer (more than one, actually.) I played with it long after the shoot was over. It's incredible. And I know many of you have the same question I did; when am I going to have one of these in my house? Surface computers will start with Microsoft partners getting first shot at various public applications, you'll most likely see them in action in Las Vegas first. Eventually prices will come down and production will go up and I expect we'll all be waving through our playlists on our coffee table before we know it. You'll also see in this video that wifi on the Zune can be used for more than just bursting a song or picture to a stranger. ======================== Imagine trading from a surface computer... I've always wanted to trade on my DOM like Cruise did in Minority Report. Kind of like ...
  22. James - how are things going here? Any updates to share?
  23. That was kind of my point - with programming, you can do a number of different things pertaining to the markets - make your own indicator(s), sell your indicator(s), work for a quant fund, etc. etc. Of all the educational background I have, I wish programming was a bigger part of it. Not only for trading too. There's just so much you can do with programming.
  24. Rock, Understand that we are traders here. So in regards to trading and going in that direction, I would actually major/double major in Computer Programming and Finance/Econ. I don't see the use of doubling in Finance or Econ, but with computers being so important, esp in trading, I would major in that field in a heartbeat if I could go back in time. There's so many options available when you can tell a computer to do XYZ w/o you having to be around. Many, many options.
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