brownsfan019

Tin, Check out http://www.stockcharts.com as well. Not sure what they offer in terms of paid services, but I've always liked their site.

Here's the chart again. This time the 2nd spinning top is now removed. Gotta love free charts. Based on the red spinning top at a resistance level, I would still short PNRA and/or buy a put at today's open. I realize it's 10:30am now, but the analysis was fine even with that error from quote.com.

Tin - that's weird about the charts being different. I just grabbed that from quote.com and sometimes their stuff doesn't line up with the others.... Maybe that is including some post/pre-market as well? No idea since I haven't traded stocks in awhile.

Hi fellas, Figured if I was going to consider some swings again, mind as well start here. A longer-term look at PNRA: And then zooming in to the recent action we see: Notes: After I did the longer-term look, I saw that we are right at a resistance zone in my opinion. I then took the longer-term look in closer to see how recent action has been. I meant to put volume on as well, but I did that after taking the screenshots and now see 2 higher volume red spinning tops right at a resistance zone. Looks like a good short to me, looking to cover some/all at the next support area at 46 or so. So now I could play this by shorting the underlying or buying a put. For right now, those are the available plays for me. I know there's a ton of stuff you can do with options, but not right now. For our tracking here, I am going to play this two ways: 1) Short at the open on Friday (really not happy about shorting on a Fri with a hold over the weekend likely. we'll see). Stop would be placed a few ticks above the high of these spinning tops and above this resistance zone. 2) Purchase a put and based on the post here, I am looking for a deep in the money call with a delta of .8 - .85. Tin - can you find me one or two that fit this profile? I still need to find a website that has this info for free, so if anyone has some links, please share. I haven't traded an option in so long that I have no idea where that's listed and it's late here and I should be :sleep: Sometime Fri I will update the trade to see where we shorted and what put we bought if Tin or Reav can find me one. For this trade we will assume 100 shares for sake of keeping the math easy on me.

Good points ck. There is an issue with options in that you can lose money even if your analysis was correct about the underlying stock/etf. That was probably the biggest reason why I stopped trading them and moved to futures as your comments have shown. And that is probably why I've always been hesitant to get back into the options game.

I liked it when I checked it out, but since it does not save your drawings, I wasn't thrilled. I just like to annotate my charts and have that saved going forward.

Not quite sure Tin. I wasn't sure if it was all web based or a download. I'd send an email and see what they see.

Tin - can't you just use TOS charts then? Why do you need a separate charting platform?

Here's the graph that corresponds with the above article:

Option question - so let's say we find a good underlying to play. How/where are you going to look for the option info? Just straight from your broker, the charting software or a separate website? Where are you going to find the IV, greeks, etc.?

Good stuff Tin. You should start an 'Option Trading 101' thread. Seriously. If we are going to discuss the greeks, IV, etc. then a thread where all this is explained would be useful for all, myself included.

When I started to get interested again in some swing plays, here's a few that I looked at: http://www.esignal.com/esignal/pricing/default.asp > EOD is only $295 for the YEAR. That seems attractive. http://www.stockfetcher.com/ > Nice as well, but I don't like that it will not save your annotations - lines, arrows, text, etc. This may have changed since I looked at it. http://www.prophet.net/ > I like these charts and the searches and such on the website itself are nice. http://www.worden.com/default.aspx > I absolutely hated this thing. The candles are made so oddly and you cannot change it to the 'normal' candle look. Basically they construct the candles with hollow and solid bodies and also color code them. For me, it just made things more confusing. http://www.tradestation.com > Old reliable I guess. Never used them for stock quotes and charting, so not sure how it works and costs involved. --------------------------------- Right now the eSignal EOD looks good if you do not need all the other bells and whistles. The prophet one is nice as well, partly due to the other stuff you get on the website itself. Could be good for trade ideas. Really the swing trading discussion can be broken into two parts, although many co's provide both - the actual charting and trade ideas/scanners. In other words, you could find use of prophet's scanners and builds, but like eSignal's charting better.

Here was something in the recent Futures Magazine about a possible option play. I actually liked it so much that I made a copy. I didn't realize they also post the articles online as well. The idea is simple, which I like. http://www.futuresmag.com/cms/futures/monthly%20issues/Issues/2007/10/Editorial/Options%20Strategy/OCT07OptionsStrategyJohnson Stock Replacement Strategy 10/1/2007 By BILL JOHNSON Most stock investors firmly believe that options are high-risk investments, only suitable for unrefined traders. But holding expensive stocks through turbulent markets can prove to be an even less civilized approach. October has historically been a dangerous month for equity investors and several analysts say this October may be historic in that regard. Using options, namely the stock replacement strategy, can tame the wildest of risks. Before we describe the stock replacement strategy you must understand one critical point: Options represent tradeoffs in risk and reward. They are not superior or inferior to stock, they present a different set of risks and rewards and it is up to each investor to determine which is right for him. This strategy is designed as a substitute for purchasing shares. It provides nearly the same profit if the stock price rises but only exposes you to a fraction of the downside risk. To understand the tradeoffs, you must understand the risks and rewards of each strategy. Assume you are bullish on Chevron-Texaco (CVX), which is trading at $90. If you purchase 100 shares of stock, it will cost $9,000 and you will earn dollar-for-dollar if the stock rises but lose dollar-for-dollar if it falls. The important point is that the profit and loss profile for a long stock position is a straight line. It shows that you continue to profit as the stock price rises but accept a large, unknown downside risk for that opportunity. While it’s true that the maximum loss is $9,000 at a stock price of zero, the chance of that happening is remote. So aside from that one known value we don’t really know what your losses could be. You’re investing in the face of uncertainty. We can improve the risk-reward profile by using the stock replacement strategy. This strategy buys a deep-in-the-money call with a delta in the range of 0.80 to 0.85. An option’s delta shows how sensitive an option’s price is for the next dollar move in the underlying stock. If you buy an 80-delta call for $10 and the stock immediately rises $1, the call will be worth $10.80. Delta does not stay constant though. If the stock continues to rise or as expiration nears, the delta eventually rises to one, which means the option eventually behaves like shares of stock. But right now, you’re capturing 80% of the stock price increase. You have nearly “replaced†the upside potential of the stock with an option. However, your downside exposure is greatly reduced. Let’s assume the March ’08 $75 call (239 days until expiration) is trading for $17.10 and has a delta of 0.80. This call gives you the right to purchase 100 shares of Chevron-Texaco for $75 at any time through expiration. Because it controls 100 shares of stock, you will pay $17.10 * 100 = $1,710 to buy the option. This is certainly much less than the $9,000 you must pay to buy the shares. By purchasing this call, your profit and loss profile looks much different as shown by the red line in “A better way.†For all stock prices above $75 at expiration, the profit and loss diagrams for both strategies run parallel and nearly overlap; they are separated by the small amount of time premium paid for the option. There is virtually no difference between the two strategies if the stock price is above $75. But look at the difference in risk for all stock prices below $75. As the stock price falls, the long stock position continues to lose but the option’s maximum loss remains at $1,710. You have sacrificed a small amount of potential profit in exchange for a fixed maximum loss. It’s a sensible tradeoff in risk and reward. What about dividends? Chevron pays 58¢ per quarter so the stock buyer collects $174 over the next eight months. By using the stock replacement strategy, you have only spent $1,710 rather than $9,000, which means you have $7,290 sitting safely in cash. At 3% interest, you’d earn $145 through the same period. Although less than $174, you didn’t spend $9,000 to get it. This strategy can therefore create synthetic dividends  even if the stock doesn’t pay one. Risk creates fear, which paralyzes decisions. To improve your investment results, you must tame the risk. The stock replacement strategy is just one of many option strategies that allow your fears to escape. And this may be a particularly good time to employ added downside protection.

Per my idea here, I thought a thread on option strategies would be useful. I haven't played options in quite awhile, so hopefully we have some experienced option traders that can start with the basics...

I'm glad that Tin took the initiative to get this area of the forum going and thought a thread discussing swing trading ideas could be useful. It's been awhile for me since I've taken some swing trades since day-trading futures has just eaten my time up. Here's a question for the stock swing traders out there - how do you screen for possible plays? I guess there's two methods - 1) Build a list and only play that list or 2) build a screener. I can see the validity of each. I'm just curious what method is most popular. As a candlestick trader myself, building a screener would be rather hard and/or useless. In theory, most candles are a 'pattern' but certain other parameters need to be met in order to be a valid pattern. And another question would be do you play the underlying stock or the options? Which one and why? Being a fan of leverage myself, I like the options but there's quite a bit of analysis that needs to go into playing the right option vs. finding the underlying and just playing that. Perhaps that's another thread in itself - ways to play options on your swing trading plays.

Billy, As an experienced futures trader myself and having demo'd many, many software products over the years, I would say that the OEC platform and fee structure is really hard to beat. I think the charting is sufficient depending on what you need and the fact that you get tons of FREE data is amazing to me. Not sure how infinity is with Sierra, but you may need to pay for your data feed as well. Maybe they include a limited set of feeds. But let's say one day you want to take a look at bonds, or mini gold, maybe the DAX or the STOXX or some other foreign markets... With OEC you just open the software and off you go. The data is there, in real-time for free to customers. You'll want to know how that works with Sierra and Infinity - ask about the data fee(s), if any. Ask how many market(s) you get for free if they say it's free. The free feed may only be the CBOT, which is free to everyone for now. You can get a 2 week trial from OEC and if need be, you can request it be extended as well. I suggest taking it for a test spin and compare. See how it feels and reacts to Infinity. You will want to be comfortable, so go with your gut. Good luck.

Here's an old thread on ET that some might be interested in. Take a look at Cazza La Randa's post on page 266. Link: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76297&perpage=6&highlight=using%20dom&pagenumber=266 I need pictures and this makes sense to me. This would be much easier on the YM or ER2 DOM's though in my opinion. The ES is so thick that I'm not sure how many you would want to see at a level to consider it big. Seeing 600+ at ONE level on the ER2 (see ET thread) stands out big time. I would be interested to see this is action in real-time. I've yet to find anything that explains it in real-time. Right now curiosity has the best of me. The only thing I have found from a different thread on ET, is mention of http://www.viperspeedtrader.com/. I have no desire to dive into a brand new thing, but for anyone interested, there's some stuff out there. I have never used viperspeedtrader.com, so please do your own due diligence before purchasing anything.

Tin, I'd love to see a swing trading area on the forum. It may not be the most active thing around, but that's ok too. Discussing swing trade ideas and setups can translate into intraday success as well.

For all the System of a Down fans, Serj is putting out a solo album soon. A few songs from the new album: Serj Tankian - The Unthinking Majority Serj Tankian - Empty Walls (Official Video) For those not familiar with Serj, he's not your typical rock/alternative song writer and performer. Most songs have an underlying theme or topic being discussed. The Unthinking Majority has some war undertones, which is very apparent in the video. I like Serj simply b/c he's different and doesn't write music for the sake of getting it on MTV or the radio. Here's the humorous side of Serj as well:

Tin, Sorry to hear man. You gotta do what is best for you, so I wish you noting but the best. With the quality threads you've produced here, I'm surprised that something is not working, or not working enough to keep you in this game. One suggestion if I may - candlestick analysis can be VERY powerful on the dailys. After working in the candlestick corner and looking at dailys with James_gsx, I've given some serious consideration to adding some swing trading plays back into my mix as well. Make no mistake, the real money is made catching the weekly trending move vs. grinding it out each day. What's so nice about day-trading futures then? Daily income. That's why I do it at least. Good luck and perhaps you should discuss a swing trading area on the forum with James. This idea has been brought up before and if there's enough out there swing trading, there could be a nice addition to the forum.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f30/how-to-post-a-chart-properly-805.html

Billy, If costs are a factor, you can get FREE charting and FREE data with an account at OpenEcry. All things being equal, this will save you money. I am going to venture to say that the commissions will be lower as well. I could be wrong, but OEC is very competitive and I have never received good rate quotes from Infinity. It's just my experience so take it for what it's worth. OEC site: http://www.openecry.com/ OEC rates on their site: http://www.openecry.com/rates/rates.cfm Note that those are the published, public rates. You are probably going to pay these or close to them in the beginning, but they can be negotiated down from there over time. OEC review here at TL: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f92/review-of-open-ecry-futures-broker-1904.html#post12570

Thanks darth, I've always heard good things about Brett and I think he posted here before. Maybe, I could be wrong. He's got some great stuff that's for sure.

Anyone else out there view market related websites on a regular basis? Anyone?

I think the CMT is a nice idea for later in your trading career, if it's needed. I'm not sure how much weight it carries with prop firms, but I could see hedge funds, i-banks, etc. putting more weight on it. It just depends what the long-term goal here is. If it's to trade prop and eventually just trade your own money, it's more of a prestige/education thing in my opinion. If the goal is to work for Goldman in their managed funds, this could be an important designation. My best guess w/o knowing more is that you do not need this right now. Not to say you won't want or need this later, but if the goal is to trade, you need to study real-time trading sooner or later, not book theories.