brownsfan019

MC - I gotcha now. Using the ES to offset is fine, until the YM is on Globex. Then it's all the same. So the plan will work assuming you still have margin in your account available to trade the ES. Keep in mind, if you are in a YM position your margin will be used there so you will need additional margin to trade the ES. With margins at $500 though, should not be a big issue. I just wanted to make sure you understood what was involved with hedging if using the actual ETF and/or options.

Are you asking me Sun? If so, feel free to stop in the TL chat room to see for yourself.

MC - the OP's initial post was about HIS PERSONAL computer freezing, not the exchange. The exchange freezing is a different story. Regardless, if you are too leveraged and can't afford a 2nd account backup, there's no hedging or oh sh*t options available at all. In order to hedge a position you need a 2nd account with funds sitting there waiting. That's it. No way to hedge w/o more money. I'm not sure what you plan to have as your backup if no additional funds are available for this purpose. To hedge takes money and quite a bit of it if hedging with an ETF at a share-to-contract ratio. If you are that worried about the leverage you are using, I would suggest scaling back the leverage and/or wait until your trading account is larger. You have a valid concern, but that is a real risk when trading a small account and/or trading with high leverage.

PP - what market is that chart from? If you remember, put a little tag on the chart or in the post what market so others can follow too. Looks like a currency.

MC - the BEST and EASIEST way to 'hedge' is to find a platform and broker that work in situations like this. The next step is to have a backup stock/options online account where you can quickly and easily buy/sell the corresponding index ETF or ETF option. Now, the time that it takes to log into your online account, find what you need and place the trade will take longer than just calling your futures broker and telling them to flatten your position if you have a broker that answers the phone quickly. So my suggestion is to not waste time having a 'oh sh*t' plan and find a broker(s) that are reliable and accessible.

Yeah, that was a GORGEOUS risk/reward setup. Just beautiful. Good times in the room today, plenty of trades for everyone to make some money.

So far MC, Globex is light years ahead of the ecbot and rarely freezes. As for the move, it already happened - you can trade the Russell 2000 at ICE AND the CME for now. CME loses the license next year. From what I have read and heard, the CME plans to push a S&P Midcap type contract hard to replace the ER2 and keep traders there. Guess we'll see.

BF - good idea on the candle thing, however candlesticks do not provide timely exits. Waiting for a reversal will cause many trades to 'give too much back' in my experience. Higher highs, lower lows sounds good on paper, but again, back to the 'give too much back' by the time a stop is hit. For example, if trading on the 5 min chart, there can be some decent price action to cause a higher high but by the time you trail a stop, you can literally give back POINTS.

RE: Keltners - I see what you mean. I actually used Keltner's for awhile at one point for this very idea. Here's the one issue in real-time - you don't know if it will break outside the band till well after the fact and that can lead to very, very small profits (if any) on trades where the lower band is touched and then snaps back. You could have a resting order to exit there, but then you won't catch the momentum trades as you've illustrated. So then it comes down to - are you better of just taking your +2 and being content so most of these trades now make money or are you sitting and waiting for the giant move.... More often than not, my research has shown taking CONSTANT profits CONSISTENTLY does so much for the trader - for their account, for their mental state of mind, etc. Constantly winning is a great feeling and cannot be underestimated.

I think I can see it... a few examples would be great. I'm a very visual person. Probably why candles work for me. I like the pretty colors. :embarassed:

And another follow up Walter - the one advantage to entering @ the close is that the +2.00 becomes even more attainable on winners. Actually, the profit target may need to be a little larger IF entering @ the close. Of course, more stop outs will ensue by entering at close, but smaller losses... Now you see why I tell people candlestick analysis CAN work but there is SO MUCH MORE than hammer hunting. There's so much that goes into a proper trading plan that many just simply won't put forth the time and effort required.

No prob, I just happened to be on when you were. Or I am always on watching posts closely.... :pc guru: I think we are similar in this regard as I was mentioning just taking a +2.00 on the 5 min ES chart trades. It's simple, easy and very attainable. Of course the other side will say let the market take you out, etc. but there were a number of trades I saw on the 5 min chart today where taking 2-3 yielded nice results, all day long. A simple, all out exit strategy helps ensure you make money in 'choppy' areas and in strong movements as well. Of course, you could make more in the strong movements by staying in longer, but to do that, you must sacrifice profits in choppy conditions. A simple bracket order is a great and EASY way to exit trades on shorter timeframes.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/wide-range-bodies-or-big-candles-1480.html

I like how Nison can draw S/R zones as well. I do think however, it's not as clear on an intra-day chart, in real-time. I know the charts can look beautiful after the fact, but not always so easy in real-time. As for the 15 / 5 correlation, I saw a few trades today where the 5 did not meet my criteria but the 15 did. Instead of taking the trade based on the 15, I can enter the 5 minute chart knowing the 15 is behind it. Example - say I was looking for a long the 5 minute and my entry criteria was not met, but on the 15 minute a confirmed long appeared. I can enter the 5 minute long knowing the 15 confirmed. I do not know how often this will happen since the 5 is going be more responsive than the 15 obviously. But, it is an option to consider. Of course, the can of worms then is to look at as many increments as possible to trade off the 5.... If we have the 5 and 15 up, why not the 10? Seems logical....

Walter - one follow up. As I mentioned before, the lower the timeframe, the more likely that some additional confirmation is needed to take a possible candlestick signal. I think you are seeing this with your threads tonight. My advice is simple - find something that is simple to follow and then test it out in real-time. In other words, perhaps JUST keltners or JUST the MACD, etc. could work on the 5 minute. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. As we've discussed in the chat room, the real key here is actually how/when to EXIT. There are plenty of trades we saw that went +2 (or more). Of course we want to stay in the winners longer and get out when it's not there, but easier said than done. So I think the entry thing is good, but I actually think the exit plan is MORE important with candlestick trading. Take my opinion for what it's worth.

Looking at your chart here PP, looks great!! Putting the VSA items aside since I don't use them (as you do at least), it basically looks like candle patterns at the extremes on the first WRB of the day for trade setups. Again, not exactly as you are using them but for sake of discussion here I see a Support/Resistance area designated by WRB. If so, we see a few possible trade setups here: A few possible trades looking at creating S/R zones on WRB. Now the next question I have is, what about the other WRB's that appear on the same chart? By using Mark's definition of a WRB, I believe there's at least the ones I highlighted. So, during the day on this 5 minute chart how do you handle these other obvious WRB's? Or is there a reason they are not used? I'm trying to see how/when a WRB is to be used for trading reference and when to ignore them, if you do at all.

Walter - good posts, some food for thought. Too many indicators for my liking, but that's the beauty of candlestick trading - patterns can be primary, secondary or a mix to get to your signals. That's simply not true PP. We welcome all posts here, but your statement here is completely false. Patterns found on 'typical' sites work just fine. As a matter of fact, Walter and I found them all day today in the chat room in real-time and saw tremendous profit opportunities. Many people simply do not understand HOW to use candlestick analysis PROPERLY. Some find a hammer and think it's time to go long but there's more to it than hammer hunting. I enjoy your input PP and it would be nice to see more threads from you in our candle corner to mesh a couple trading methodologies. Problem is, I have yet to see any trading VSA in real-time do it with any success. You are more than welcome to join us in the chat room this week to discuss possible setups in real-time.

There can be a difference nyc and sometimes it's larger than other days. You just have to test different settings to see what works for you.

Gotcha BF. Currently just using the 15 min chart setup. That's it, fairly simple. Sometimes it's a matter of KISS. Cutoffs for using candlestick patterns is a toss up b/c as I mentioned earlier, the smaller the timeframe, the need for some sort of additional confirmation is stronger. So, one could trade on the 1 minute chart using candlesticks AND XYZ. In that instance, the 1 minute is just fine. Now if primarily using candlestick analysis for your decision making, a longer timeframe is good. I happen to like the 15 minute chart (currently). I will watch other timeframes for comparisons but the 15 is providing some nice signals with good risk/reward potential.

I disagree BF b/c if you load up a 50,000 VBC that is not true at all. The culprit was a LOWER setting VBC. Just like a 1 or 3 minute chart as well. WRB's are subject to some discretion the lower the timeframe setting, whether minute based, volume based, tick based, etc.

There is also an EASY way to prevent this on YOUR end - When you get filled on an order, place a protective stop immediately!! Most platforms you can set it up so that the stop automatically fires when your trade is filled. This is critical. Next, you need to find a broker where your stop is held at the exchange and/or your broker's server side. In other words, if your connection goes out, your protective stop is maintained. In summary, you and your friend need to: 1) Place protective stop IMMEDIATELY after entering a trade, preferably have your platform set up so that the stop fires as soon as you are filled so you don't have to do anything. 2) Find a broker that holds your stops @ the exchange and/or server side. Stops that are held ONLY on YOUR computer are subject too many, many risks as this thread has illustrated.

This can EASILY be avoided by choosing a broker that responds to your phone call in SECONDS. Your friend learned this lesson the hard way. Make no mistake, you need to have a Plan B in place for the unexpected, esp. with computer outages, internet outages, etc. As for any recourse, your friend is stuck. If you read the paperwork you sign when you open a futures account, you'll find the wording basically says 'you are subject to computer malfunctions - on your end AND ours - deal with it.' Part of the business; HOWEVER this should NOT be a major problem. I've never had an issue getting to Open ECry's 24 hour trade desk when need be. I have a poster on my dry erase board that has their 800#, local phone number and phone numbers to the main guy at OEC and my account rep. I have their personal cell phone #'s and direct business lines. I've NEVER had to use these backup options as the 24 hour trade desk is there when I need it. Let this thread be a lesson to any trading futures, whether 1 contract or 100.

Here's my very simple outside look of VSA - there's a reason the VSA thread is currently on page 116, which is huge for TL. Probably the biggest thread. After glancing at the thread there appears to be A LOT of questions and confusion on how to implement it in real-time. For me, it's just too much to process in real-time. For me, candlesticks provide many of the same ideas in a much simpler, easier to read format. Just my 2 cents.

I agree Walter on your points. Here's what you will see on the 15 minute however - many WRB's appear in your favor and the next 15 minute candle produces a snap back or complete retracement of previous WRB. So for me, I want out at the high/low of the JUST FINISHED WRB, not the one forming that goes against my position. Again, just my observation on the 15 minute. A lower timeframe, like the 3 or 5 minute that you have been looking at, could be very,very different. I struggled with WRB's on lower VBC's so it could be a function of the tiemframe setting.

Walter, I'd love to find the most efficient and effective way to exit trades, whatever that may be. Currently it is mainly based on visual WRB's as I've found these to be decent exits on the 15 minute chart. A WRB on the 15 is pretty strong in my opinion. Of course, no exit strategy is perfect (yet) and sometimes you exit 'too soon' or 'too late' in hindsight. Part of the game I guess.