forrestang

The blue/red/purple lines where much better than those triangles.

Are you more interested in the mini or the big oil?

Do you think that is a bit of a corrective channel upwards, maybe waiting for open?

Get the url of your desired picture. I do this via uploading the picture After that click the links like below, and copy the url, then past into the the thing shown in the first pic after clicking that button. ----Edit---- looks like Thales beat me to it.

:haha: LOL, I just noticed this earlier today. Luckily for you, most of the questions I think are just about answered.

Did I get the wrong link? I just looked at both the table of contents and used the search function but didn't see either of those two names. It's late and I could be mis-reading the suggested reading.

The idea should still hold all the same right, no matter what bar interval one uses to manage the initial pa after entering, in that we're just monitoring the micro swings develop? That if we buy, and we are barely stopped in before it moves against us, a LH should make us a bit cautious about letting our initial stop be exercised? Do you think volatility would change anything in this regard?

Pa, What is your view of using RTH vs. AH for looking at larger trends? For example I usually draw tcls and tls on my 60 minute NQ chart, do you find that the RTH chart puts something into perspective that the 24hour chart does not?

Lately, I've been feeling better about trade management, and have begun to stop fretting over the possible future outcome of each of my trades. I think this is due to a conversation in this thread. Since the inception of this thread, I have kept a word document with a lot of the finer points from things in this thread from various posters. I would post this document, but it would take a bit of organizing so that it is really coherent to a reader other than myself. Eventually I will get this organized and posted. But for now, here is an exert that I have taken from my document and put into a pdf. This exchange right here shown in the pdf has at least temporarily completely changed my trading for what seems to be the better, at least temporarily. As mentioned above, at the very least it has allowed me to focus on not worrying about every trade being a winner, because I am at least a bit confident that I have a pretty solid way of management. I have only pasted one example in here. But that example is one of the few scenarios I see over and over. These scenarios are basically: 1.) Price stops you in and immediately moves in your favor by a lot or a little. 2.) Price stops you in, and either moves a tic or two before retracing on you 3.) And of course, anything in between or possibly even some 'V' type behavior (rare case) This example is focusing on #2. Manage This.pdf

I guess I am further messing with the thread here(and this post too can be deleted when this thread is cleaned up), but I think the problems initially had with Mr. Black's posts where this series I am showing below, not the most recent set: Here, I don't know if one was just trying to show an example, or pass it off as a real time, right edge read? Then there was this one here, again, I don't know if it was just showing an example, asking a question, or passing it off as a real time, right edge? Then there was this trade, which was a legitimate REAL TIME CALL, keeping with the spirit of most of the thread. But then it was followed up with a reversal entry that was posted a waaaaays after the initial entry would have triggered, showing the ninja entry. So a trade was taken(SIM or Real it doesn't matter), but why post it so much later? To wait to see if it pans out? I don't know? But the point is, why not just do like Thales suggests, and post the entry before, right after it happens? Just somewhere near the time so that you can manage your trade. When a post like this is made, it's almost like "FILTERING" ones trade selection in an effort to present only the profitable choices. I am just saying this in general, just do like Thales mentions, and post the trade near the time it happens. EVERY single other thread in this forum is a hindsight thread, and could easily accommodate any hindsight trades. There is even a 'HINDSIGHT' thread out there now. This is the ONLY one that I know of that focuses on the 'right edge.' SIM, Real, just mental trading, doesn't matter what one enters the trade with. Blotters or ninja triangles aren't needed to prove a trade. But IMO, just keep it with the theme and post a real time right edge read, and don't be afraid of loosing, we all have losers, but the thread is supposed to help us with our right edge reads.

Since we're logging complaint's to the 'Real-Time Customer Service' Department...... I never got a response to this one question here: Summary of the dialogue: It was this post HERE.

That LH you mentioned, that I placed on the chart was where I figured a better exit should have been where I highlighted the LH you speak of. But, if I would have based to stop off of even that(placing one tic below that last swing), I would have been tagged to the tic. I apologize for the chart, I figure it's the only way to illustrate my question. Yes, I see the distinction. On the trades that initially do what I want, and do not quite reach my BE trigger, how much room should I give them beyond retesting my entry price? Is it a matter of something occurring like two consecutive LHs(for a buy case) beyond my entry and then exit? I was just throwing that idea out there. Thanks, I had a feeling there wasn't much there. I think that's why I didn't necessarily expect much of a rally.

Question for you Thales, about management and the quest for consistency and cutting losers quickly. Shown here on the first chart is just a larger outlook. IN that price did have 3 pushes in a way(shown by different color tcl), and possibly a 3rd push with a slight overshoot of the tcl. But nothing super obvious, so I wouldn't really expect much. This graph is showing a medium out look, definitely no tcl overshoot, or anything that really makes one think reversal IMO..... other than a strong move in one direction. But shown is the entry, BE trigger and two targets. I'm showing next a really small tf view. Now you can see the entry and BE point replicated on the chart (pay attention to the ordering of the bubbles). In this instance I never got a chance to get to BE. You see after the entry a nice move, different than the sometimes stop in and retrace on you. Price then came back towards entry. Now I took the stop shown on the chart. But here is the question, you said you like to see(for a long), a H-LH-LL that will take you out early. My question is this scenario occurred around points 3-5. But my exit was prior to this occurring. Is this rationale correct on what may have seen you exit the trade? And in this case it really was only a difference of a tic, so this is more an academic question.

Yah, I get your point. I was asking more on a practical approach. Clearly it seems his daily charts are based on a rejection, once a good rejection forms, that becomes a S/R level. The lines on the 15m chart, I am wondering how he defines those S/R levels?

In all fairness TRO, a trade must be composed of at least two basic pieces, an ENTRY and an EXIT. A trade is even better when posted by someone when it has a stop posted with it. Your system is clear on how to and why you enter. But the 'results' portion is a bit hypothetical. HOw many times have we all picked a direction properly, but been stopped out due to bad timing, or being stopped out to the tic? I think you could simplify this by simply posting your 'opportunity' as you do(exact entry would be nice but not necessary as you explain the entry rules)........ but it needs either a target, or an exit posted sometime near the exit. Without that, you're just showing how price rose above your possible entry. Why not post the exit as it happens, then that just removes all doubt. And we know trading is not that simple, one has to be able to remain in the trade, and without definition as to WHEN to exit, or how to stay in the trade.......even if price does go in the intended direction, without the above, it would still be hard to win.

I too find tremendous value in Ross's material. But have always had trouble with stop placement because Ross has a weird way of managing a trade, at least the way he describes in his books. And I just can't see how that could work? The Rh in concert with 1-2-3s on the bigger tf you posted seem logical, can you post your Rh ideas or trades in real time as they develop, I'd be interested in seeing someone elses take on that idea, particularly while the trade is developing. There are hooks or TTEs that dont immediately move in you favor that makes trade management a bit confusing.

Can you explain more about your chosen S/R levels please? It seems like you may be basing things on a swing point or a place where price was rejected? Not necessarily based on the out edges of value ranges, or heavy volume regions. Is this correct?

Do you think that if this exact scenario had played out in RTH(if price wasn't just sitting still) that maybe it would have rolled on you a bit further before you got out while waiting for a HH in price movement to print?

That was a good exit to get out at -3 tics. What was it that helped you get that quickly? I saw that price barely stopped you in before immediately reversing. Did you see a H-L-HH form on this one?

Do you usually monitor a trade after your entry in this fashion and get ready to exit a long(for example) when you get a LL....... Do you continue to monitor for this type of activity UNTIL you get your stop to BE?

Does it matter to you that your tcls be exactly parallel to the originating tl? Are all of your trades initiated at either a TCL violation of some wort for reversals?

I have heard you mention that before Thales, a ways ago in the thread, but I had yet to grasp the concept of how to 'pull the cord' quickly' when a trade just nics your entry. I thought about it, I suppose that is part of being nimble. How do you decide wether or not it is a re-entry you want to take, or how often is your entry just barely "nic'd" more than once? By that I mean, if you are stopped in, and price immediately moves against you, and you exit. But then take another re-entry at a slightly worse price....... Do you get these types of entries often, where you have to enter twice?

Very similar situation on NQ on my last trade. Although I was taken out on this one to the tic literally. The first chart is the big picture. Second chart is a look inside the trade. This was a scenario when price stopped me in the the tic before immediately moving against me. At this point I'm looking for an excuse to exit(because price didn't move in my direction at all initially). On the small range chart, you can see the high print. At this point, price makes a small move down, and at this point a move up would be the break of a HL, and I would exit. Well this happened and stopped me out to the tic.

It does help Thales. Your P2, how do you manage that? Let's say you hit your P1, how do you go about managing your P2? Always via swing points? Or is P2 a BE or bust?

Thales, I appreciate the further explanation. With this recent dialog I think I have a pretty good understanding on how to cut the trades quick that may not be moving in my favor as I want using HLs LHs etc, of actual price movement and not necessarily based on time summaries. I have one more question for you. It is concerning further management. Before I ask I do realize there are a many ways to manage a position and come out profitable in the long haul. Let's assume the trade is moving how you want, and you are actively in front of your monitor during rth. Do you trail all your positions beyond swing points(LHs, HLs) of price movement(and I mean not based on time but actual price movement), or is your goal to get to BE and let your targets play out? Does this question make sense?