forrestang

I think that depends on what you are using the charts for. I wasnt suggesting it's a correct/direct correlation. The 10K I'm using is soley for picking out S/R. I've used the 100K on ES for the same reason. And the point of the big bar interval is to get as much data in as possible, while still showing some swings for major S/R. The 2500, I simply use to view how price get towards the S/R. While still being small enough to show swing highs and lows. Cause the 10K really won't show it.

I'm trading NQ, right now....and I'd trade the ES the same way, only on the CVB charts I would multiply them by maybe 10. I've got 5 charts right now that I make intraday decisions from 4 are on my screen at all times: 10K CVB - used to pick S/R the night prior, not on screen during trading 2500 CVB - transfer levels from 10K chart to this one, easier to see swings 1 Minute - gauging trend, trade managment, monitor volume on this 5 Second - Entry Chart w/Volume 60 Min - I just put this up there, as of now I am not finding it useful If I were trading ES( and have before), I would replace the 10K with a 100K chart, and the 2500CVB with a 20K CVB.

Here is a 'CouldaWouldShoulda' for you guys. So the mornings seem to present good trades more often than not, everyday almost. Price made a hard push up in AH. And it somewhat spooked me since it pierced the 32 level so vigorously. But nonetheless I was hoping for a short right after the market opened, seeing as how it was determined to get back to 32 before the open, signaling a potential short from top of the range. Well, it started heading down before the open. So I didn't get in this trade. Why do I have this bias about the open? I don't know, it's just one of those things...... like taking a leak with your non-dominant hand :shrug: But missing this doesn't bother me much. Next trade occured at the 10 area. 10 has been significant since we entered this 00-32 range. Today it tested pretty much to the tick. The entry was beautiful as well, explained on the chart. What's really bothersome is how easy this trade would have been to manage. Seldom do I see something that works out so cleanly. Price pretty much went straight up, with minor pbs, almost right to the resistance level. But look at the 1min TL, which I always have up. Oh well, time to move on: ----------------------ADDENDUM----------------------------- SO I posted the trade I didn't take. But like many other posts I've created in this thread, I didn't say "WHY" I didn't take it. I have some theories: 1) I had on my chart the main trading range of 00-32. This is the big range. I have a midpoint around 18 or so. There are little ranges within. So maybe my logic was I would be initiating trades in the middle of the range, potential bad idea? Probably not, as mentioned there are ranges within the range, and 10+ was reasonable IMO. 2) I'm just trigger shy. I watch a lot of trades walk past me. I imagine this isn't based on Fear, but more on me having in my head to look for the 'best opportunities.' Too much thinking on my part I believe. 3) More likely for this particular trade, I think it is because I didn't have 10 on my charts prior to the open. I don't know why? I think this is just a lapse in judgement marking things up the night prior. The 10 level has been on most of the charts I posted in the Trading in Foresight thread, and probably on more of the ones I did not post. I have the 10 level, or something right next to it Here, and Here, and Here, and Here. I think 3 is the most concrete reason.

Detours was mentioned earlier as one of the factors in determining the amount of time. Boy is this a huge deal. If you start with bullshit, like I did, more than likely that will add a huge portion of time. I wish I was one of the ones that started trading with a sound methodology.

Quite a ways back, before I was committed to the idea of naked charts w/horizantal lines, I bought some PBF things. Did it help me? Overall I didn't loose any money the period I tested it live. Did I make a killing? NO!!!! I think that was pure luck with a relatively small sample size to boot. I was essentially letting the indicators guide me into trades in the middle of nowhere. Which was a bad strategy for me. If I had combined PBF with some basic knowledge of S/R, I think I would have done quite well. But then again, it probably wouldn't have been the indicators doing the work, it more likely would have been the support and resistance. I had this on MC, and compared it with the indicators Blu-Ray coded, and they literally are identical. With very small differences. If anyone is still just dying to get these indicators, try the Blu-Ray version. I think if you really want to get better at trading, read the S/R threads throughout the forum, stare at the screen.........THEN contemplate using those indicators and see if they would keep you out of bad trades, or make it easier to pull the trigger.

First, here is a follow up from yesterday. Just after the open, price moves up to test the 1618 RESISTANCE zone, it then falls down all the way to 1598. I didn't anticipate that much movement, so had to adjust fire and update levels as the day progressed. I've adjusted some things which you can see on the continuation part of the chart, as well as the 2nd chart in this post. This picture of the follow up should be self explanatory: HERE IS THE CHART FOR TUESDAY:

What I have for Monday, 10Aug2009

I have many other "CouldaWouldaShouldas" throughout the day. But I'd go insanse trying to post them all, so I'm just going to post one that we were talking about today while it was happening. This picture is just the 1000CVB chart and the 5sec chart. Significant levels are transferred from the 10K to the 1k before trading day as I see the swings better, but the 10K is still visible as one of the charts I use as I can fit more days on it. Anyway, price is approacing the 10 level. I'm looking to short. All my entry criteria is pretty much present to enter the trade, with a good few minutes to make a decision, just didn't do it for whatever reason. I have a problem obviously with not taking trades that fit my criteria. And so far my criteria is relatively strict, and I get several opportunities each day to enter. In all honesty, if I'd taken that first entry, I may, may not have been stopped at BE, or cashed in half for some profit..... but a reasonable re-entry may have been there? Hopefully after posting enough of these, I will make the necessary adjustments to the game plan.

Here's a "CouldaWouldShoulda" from today. But a recap, price moved out of a prior range, and began creating a new range on the 30th, this range was essentially 1600-1632. Price had dropped hard this morning from the highs, and came towards the 06 area, then to the 04 area and finally to the 02 area before taking off. It took off at approx 13:06. Now, I saw the support zone as rather wide. I tried several times to get long at the bottom of this range, first @ 10:46, then again @11:50. I think taking trades that either stopped me out, or hit me at BE eventually lulled me into thinking this thing isn't going anywhere. All entries into the trade looked decent on the 5sec chart. But the absolute BEST looking entry IMO occurred at 13:06. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about: More specifics about this entry are discussed in the 'Entries' thread.

Here is an example of a trade that I didn't take, although it is in the "entries" portion of my criteria. By this point in the day, I had been trying to play the bottom of that range all day, and didn't think anything would come out of it. My Support I had sketched out in this area wasn't too solid, so I watched it happen and go on without me. But I still think it's a good addition to this thread!

I have something written down for this type of entry, but it is rather vague. Hopefully I'll keep taking pictures of these, and it will be obvious what the entry is.

Here are significant areas as I see for tomorrow. It's basically unchanged from yesterday, only that I have moved the high range from 30 to 32. So the midpoint was adjusted(dotted blue line), which is good as it reflects how price bounced off of this midpoint today. The POC as you can see will adjust dynamically throughout the day. So a few questions about current S/R. I've noticed each day that even after defining major S/R, it might be useful to look closer at the intraday trading, and notice areas where price touches many times each day. Example would be the 00-32 range is obvious. And in between, there are places where price has touched several times. That 23 level I have up now, I got that from noticing what price did in that area, denoted by the green circles. Today however,the 25 level seeemd to be more significant, denoted by the red circles. This is only 2 NQ points and might wind up not effecting trading much, but it's just a point of clarification...... so would it make more sense to highlight the 23 or 25 area? Second question, price noticed the midpoint today (red rectangle), and the midpoint is generally the middle with the most activity, most whipsawing? Would it be prudent to look to initiate trades near the midpoint, i.e. just flat out looking at it as a valid support level as it sits now? I understand one could consider it a range within a range.

Modified a bit. As mentioned in the other thread about entries, I seem to miss quite a bit of activity as the day starts, particularly levels where price reacts to that I didn't recognize the day prior. Obviously the 00 and 30 levels created the new range we are in now. The dotted line in between is the midpoint. Price notices it and I have it there. This is denoted by the larger lines I have on my chart. The two smaller blue/intermediate levels are there now. Not that I anticipate trades being taken there, but this is just to be more prepared for tomorrow. Price reacted to these areas many times, so I have them on my chart.

That sounds simple enough, price bouncing off of a level would be the reversal, and as mentioned one could call a breakout from a subtle pullback a 'breakout,' and the terms start to become dilluted. Kind of like calling a table a chair just because one can sit on it.... Ignore the above, rest assured I get the meaning behind the reply. As far as entries are concerned, I still haven't found the 'button,' that I will initiate a trade from, if there is such a thing for most estute traders. Right now it's still a collection of ideas that seem to expand a little more the more I pay attention to specific ways to enter. I.e. some sideways consolidation, or a small micro-springboard looking area, extreme increase/decrease in market breadth, double tops/bottoms, all the above around important areas on whatever chart I am using. Right now it is a 5sec chart. Alllll of the above is still contingent upon one picking the useful levels to trade. And each day the extremes are the obvious, and may provide the cleanest trades, but there are always prior levels that go unoticed by me.

Here are two entries from earlier. Still somewhat shooting from the hip looking for entry.

Atto mentioned what seems to be an interesting characteristic of price with regards to price reaching a level. It's not a 'button' so to speak on how to enter a trade, but it seems relevant to this section nonetheless. This was Friday reaching Resistance. This just happens to be the one pointed out at the time.

Any other thoughts for tomorrow? Right now I just have the Resistance line above, at the 30 area, the main Support @ 1600 where price recently barely penetrated and price immediately moved back above during AH on Sunday. So that seems to be a good level as price moves back towards the midpoint which is the 15 area. Those boxes had midpoints that price reacted to several times on Friday. I'm sure there are other areas that could be highlighted, but this is all I have on my charts for now.

On another note, has anyone been trying to scalp the NQ?

Oh it's entertaining:rofl: Join the club!

Just some thoughts: The splitting of price into bars into whatever 'bar interval' is indeed completely arbitrary. So even the 1min chart is kind of like throwing a dart at a target blindfolded. Since the entry is going to be whatever that increment gives you. The entry is going to vary depending on WHEN the activity in that area happened. Hope this makes sense what I'm trying to say? I would prefer to have a more 'continuous' entry, like anticipating the end of a move in a direction wether it be short or long term, and entering on a pre-determined stop beyond where price is. The tic chart, I wish I could tighten it up a little bit more.

Thanks for your comments. I've actually got the idea of entering into a trade by putting the order in front of my trade direction on my word document of ideas. If I understand what you're suggesting, your idea is that if price is heading towards support for example, and price hits what you anticipate being the bottom, to place your buy stop 2 points above where there anticipated bottom is, and to keep adjusting it down as price continues to move down correct? I would use the tic chart, but I haven't figured out how to use it to actually help me enter a trade? Since the interval is literally one tic, it seems as though price is always reeady to go the opposite direction since the swings are so small?

I've got something to add to this conversation. After the original post I figured I needed to write something down. The word document I've created is really just a collection of ideas, not rules, and one section is about possible methods to develop a consistant logic to enter trades once price reaches the places I want to trade it. But, none of this is concrete, and it's just a collection of ideas. And the crux of this is still initiating trades on the eges, or at least in an area where price might move. This is not about how to manage a trade after entry or where to place stops, as there are obviously a million ways to work that aspect of the trade and that's for another post. I've pretty much been winging entries, as I've really just been staring at charts for a while, without much structure. So this is dealing mainly with REVERSALS, although retracements on a flipped level, many of these concepts may still apply. Breakouts, I just don't feel comfortable trading them, and have never been good at it. So the charts: My anchor is the 10K CVB chart. This is mainly for picking S/R the night prior. The actual day of trading might be served better looking at a slightly smaller CVB chart, only because the swings to and from S/R will be more obvious. I am also using a 1min chart to enter the actual trade. This just gives me the price at which I am going to place the entry stop, NOTHING ELSE. I was simply trying to pick a small enough time frame as a compromise between jumping the gun and getting in too late with a big stop. Price is continuous, so the splitting of the bars really mean nothing, the market doesn't care what time frame I'm using. but this is just a technique that I'm exploring. They'll be more on this later. And finally the 15sec chart looking at the breadth of the market. This is mainly a nudge, confirmation, or a way to rule out trades when I might be on the fence. This could also prove to simply cloud decisions. But paying attention to it this way today seemed to be useful. And some of the examples shown might make it seem to be not useful, but remember this is a small sample size. I had initially planned on doing examples for every time we had a move to an area, but it was taking quite a long time to do this so I just picked the first 7 or so instances that occured on that day. These were the observations I made during the trading day, and hopefully it's not just considered to be hindsight garbage. CHARTS: So first is the 1Min and explain the entries. The 1Min chart is just the entry chart. And that entry is one tic beyond the last bar toward the trade. So falling into Support, enter on 1st bar that makes a HH, and vice versa for Resistance. Obviously sometimes this will have me entering a trade with too large of a stop, and maybe one would just pass the trade. I was just trying to avoid being faked out too much, and finding a way to let price work it's way towards a level, and enter the trade, because levels seldom seem to be EXACT. NOthing is 100%, but notice the chart below, when price apporaches the levels, even if there is an overshoot, or undershoot of a level, price does usually come back when entering this way. Here is the 1min and 10K CVB chart. The CVB chart just has the S/R levels we discussed in the 'Trading in Foresight' Thread. A smaller increment would have been better to explain this, but the point is just to show that price went to the levels. And finally the 15sec charts. I'm just trying to mainly show the TD that occurs here. Not all are classical, but the point is that if I am interested in trading the reversal, and looking for confirmation, and TQ takes off, and more importantly seperates from price, then maybe it makes the trades easier to take. Sometimes this happens prior to entry, sometimes right after, as you can see, sometimes not at all. But the point is that it's just another tool. #1 - As seen on the 1min, price heads right below Resistance, and TQ takes off, so this could be a possible entry, maybe a stop out depending on the stop and trade management. #2 - If not entered, or stopped, this looks like a possible re-entry, with still TQ that is strong. This one has an entry with a small bar for small stop. #3 - Stairstepping down on 1min towards support, with good TQ, possible entry. #4 - Same drill with immediate and strong TQ to help give confidence to take the trade. #5 - This one was ok, but TQ wasn't overwhelming, but good R:R with small stop. #6 - This would need a big stop, TQ wasn't overwhelming either. #7 - A cluster here, TQ doesn't really fall off for a while. Again, this is just a collection of ideas right now, and there is a lot of subjectivity here. There are obviously a dozen ways to manage each trade, depending on stop placement and when one takes profits.

My chart feels naked, like there should be more... but this might be all that is needed? Thoughts for tomorrow:

I thought I'd start a conversation on this topic, I'm expecting there to be no simple answer to this question, or even if there is one. So, if there are 3 basic types of strategies or entries one might use to enter the market, is it fair to assume that each is suited for a specific purpose, or is it personality dependant? If the former: then it could be the difference between expecting to trade the initial breakout of a rectangle for example vs. waiting for a pullback after a breakout? If the latter, maybe it is based on ones risk tolerance for entering early vs. taking on a bigger stop? The next issue is how should one enter? I understand this is a relatively vague question:roll eyes: Let's assume the focus of your trading activity is centered around areas of potential for price movement, S/R. So you know the areas you want to trade. You also have some idea of the direction in which you want to place that trade. But then, what is it that actually makes one click the 'transmit' button? For example, the NQ has been making new highs almost everyday. And price really hasn't "flipped" any areas of Support. It prettey much has just been stopping and pausing before going up. So your options if one wants to play the edges has been pretty much either been: -A reversal of some sort at that edge, anticipating price to bounce (but when do you enter) -A breakout above or below a newly established range (these scare me) -Or a retracement of some sort after one of the two listed above occurs(I feel late to the party, and what if retracement doesn't occur till your back in the middle?) -And possibly heaven forbid some type of entry in the middle of a range? Trading is not mechanical. This is obvious to me now. But can entries be? Or is this something that one has to use intuitivenes to gauge the best possible entries? Or is this simply a matter of preference for the individual? Hopefully the explanation above makes sense, as I had a plan for this chart, but I can't remember what it was, and since I spent time creating it I am posting it!:rofl:

I now have the ability to view sub-minute charts, as well as overlay the TICKQ on a 1tick chart. So I'm looking it over, and just based on visuals, I am liking the 5sec chart better so far. Mainly because I can't tighten my 1tick chart up enough, and coupled with my other charts, I can't see much. I know the purpose is to spot divergences, but I'm just making an observation. I will try to observe them both throughout the trading day.