Anonymous

GCB: 1. Am I correct in thinking this tool has elements of Market Delta within it? 2. Can you code it up for MetaStock (without TTM version)? I think this could create a powerful way to view PRICE ACTION. Very nice. Just goes to show the quality of members on this forum.

BF; I saw this pic in the volume gradient thread and thought of you. First note that the chart comes from Robert. Also note that this is a Constant Volume chart. What I find interesting is the use of volume to color the bars based on the amount of up volume or down volume. Now I know you exit at the close of the bar on a WRB. Here I have shown a hypothetical trade. The entry is in yellow. Suppose you entered here. Usually you would be looking to exit at the first WRB. However, here you would not. Why? Because you can see that the candle is DARK green. Which means an increase in UP volume. In other words, upside pressure is increasing. Thus you could stay with the position. Next we move to the second WRB. Here the candle is a light green. This represents a decrease in the up volume vs. the average up volume for x periods. Here, you would want to exit as upside pressure is decreasing. We see the same thing with the last two WRBs. One is able to stay in the trade a bit longer while feeling confident that the volume pressure is on his side. Just one chart example to be sure. But it looked like it could be up your alley.

Robert2617; nice pics. I like it without the TTM on the bars. All are green bars close>open? I hope you don't mind but I am using one of the pics in the WRB thread, check it out.

GCB; While VSA makes different assumptions about volume, I must say that this is a great idea. I commend you on your work. Would love to see more charts and then of course......trading ideas/set-ups that this tool brings about.

Hi Tasuki. I was not directing my comments at you. Sorry if you felt that I did. I just know that Todd and Gavin read my posts and I was talking to them. Last weekend Todd finally admitted that Gavin is more of an indicator trader. This is something he would not admit prior to then. Yes it is true that Gavin is less experienced in VSA. So why does HE do all the public events and Todd do only the events for software customers? I was shocked when Todd showed up at the event held here by TL. That was great. Check out the comments and you will see that others noticed the difference in abilities between Gavin and Todd. Its just a shame that they no longer want to help educate ALL CUSTOMERS. Anyway, I do not want to TG bash. I believe in VSA and want to both share and learn from others. We can figure this out, with or without them.

Be careful of this. Take a look at the chart from my prior post. That large down bar on heavy volume would be associated with Selling , or negative, volume by traditional volume indicators. But we know that there is BUYING in there. Strength comes in on weakness (down bars) and Weakness comes in on strength (up bars). Just step back and look at what price did after that large volume spike. The overall drift of prices changed to the upside. Clearly, there must of been some buying in that bar therefore. Now if you are referring to bid/ask or volume on all stocks on an up tick or such, that is not necessary. Think about this, If all stock of the ES are ticking up on heavy volume, who is on the other side doing the selling? Selling climaxes will have heavy "selling volume", but it is the hidden Professional demand (buying) that puts the floor in the market.

I do not have Tradeguider, nor do I recommend it. Everything can be learned in the book and the bootcamp. And TG will no longer support the growth of those who do not buy the software. In other words, all they care about is selling software. THEY ARE NOT CHAMPIONS OF VSA. They are no different than eACSTrend or any other product huckster out there. To be sure , the method is valid but the method is being lost in a desire to market a partial black box software package. Sorry, just had to vent. As of last weekend, TG will no longer be doing customer only learning sessions for customers who do not own the software. So, they will take your $100.00 (book) or your $500.00 (bootcamp) but then they want nothing to do with helping you grow your VSA knowledge. As far as the 400 indicators go, this is a little misleading on their part. What they do is have, for example, 10 different dialog boxes associated with No Demand. That is, 1 of 10 different boxes can come up with a No Demand signal. The differences are very subtle and understanding that the signal is No Demand is actually all that is needed. However, the software reads nuances in the price action to determine which of the various No Demand signs is displayed. To be sure, there is nothing wrong with that. However to say that one cannot learn VSA on his own because of the number of indicators involved is a little felonious. As you have shown, it breaks down to far fewer than they would have you believe. P.S. Again forgive me for venting. I feel betrayed by the new TG focus and tell Gavin and Todd this all the time. If they are not willing to be champions of VSA first, then I will be.

Hi Walterw, No. They are just there for "show". I put them there for a little color. In VSA the actual number is less important than the relative amount. This brings up the color of the bars. Blue means the bar is greater than the previous bar and red means the bar is less than the previous bar. Note this is superior to the traditional red for down close and blue (green) for up close. Why? Well we know that supply comes in on up bars and demand shows up on down bars, but this is the exact opposite of what the traditional color scheme implies. Sometimes you will notice a black ave on the chart. This is a 30 mov ave (simple) of volume. If you wanted to be more like tradeguider, you could place a 3 stand deviations of the moving average on the chart. Any bar that was above that level would be ultra high. However, you will find that over time one can get a feel for the amount of volume just by looking at the bars.

Hi sds. That particular bar is a form of a test. But note the volume. it is very high for a test. If there were no sellers then volume should be lower. Now this is confirmed as price moves down. So we have a failed test, which shows weakness(supply).

Nice Bullish White Hammer pattern. Note that the white hammer line is inside the range of the Ultra Wide Spread Ultra High Volume candle. When we take a look at the WRB, we see a down candle that has an ultra wide spread and closes on its low. There would appear to be heavy selling pressure in this bar. BUT THE NEXT BAR IS UP. If that bar was true selling, then the next bar would not be up. In fact, if one looks at what price did after that bar it moved up. Clearly, the Professional demand created an upward drift in price. Simply, that WRB must of been a shift/change in the Supply/Demand dynamics of the market. Now note the large dark Candle just prior to the shaded area. This candle closes on its low , closes lower than the previous bar and has volume less than the previous two bars. This is No Selling pressure. The close on the low fools the retail trader into seeing weakness. The lack of volume, however, is the real clue. Price does move down a bit and create the bullish hammer pattern. Note that the hammer line itself is a VSA shakeout/test bar. This is the "ideal" set-up. We see strength come in using our primary methods (VSA and WRB) and then we get a buy signal via our secondary method (Japanese candlestick patterns).

First, up until a few hours ago we ALREADY had this. Second, the person starting the thread would decide where he wants to place it. Let me give an example using Brownsfan. He is the resident Volume Candle Guru . He may want to start a thread topic on a very advanced aspect of VC trading. Now he would be willing to share this information, but rather than sharing with those who are not sharing back (no posts), he wants to only share with those who are doing so in kind. Many people can "lurk" the boards and pick up good trading ideas. But maybe one wants to only share ideas with others that are also putting ideas out there. I am not talking about secret hand shakes and private meetings in smoke filled rooms. Just members who have been around for a while posting sharing with others who are doing the same. All a newbie has to do to get there is continue to post. In other words, support the forum and the forum supports you.

Gaps are filled. Interesting early morning action in the Euro. Check out the chart below. First we see a dark WRB followed by a GAP in price. Note the first candle with a double arrow. Notice that the volume is ultra high and the bar closes lower than the previous bar and off of its low. VSA teaches that this is a bar that may have buying within it. Now the next bar is key. It turns out to be a WRB, but the fact that the bar is up means the prior bar MUST of had some buying contained within it. Now we move to the white WRB itself. Note that this bar creates a zone or range where we get a change in the supply/demand dynamic. We also know that the market does not like wide spread up bars on ultra high volume because of the possibility of hidden selling. In this case, however, the volume actually fell from the previous bar and is not ultra high. We move to the next candle with a double arrow below. This is a doji that closes equal to the previous bar and in the upper portion of its range. Volume on this bar is Ultra high. There is SUPPLY in the market at this stage. Price moves down from here. Next candle, closes in the upper portion of its range and higher than its open. Volume again is extreme. Here we have Demand showing itself. In other words, Demand is swamping Supply on this bar. SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. Notice that the next bar closes in its middle, has an equal close and volume drops off. The Last bar closes on its high on volume that is less than the previous two bars. Although it does not make a lower low, this is a 'test' bar. The Smart Money is testing for supply and finds none. Now price is poised to go up and fill that gap.

WRB's are good for exits, but they provide so much more. The old trader’s adage says, "Gaps are filled". Check out the chart below. I want to save the bulk of the analysis for the VSA thread, but note the Long Shadows and Dojis that occur inside the range of the WRB. The double arrow on the right points to a bar that closes on its high with volume less than the previous two bars. THIS IS A TEST and the signal to go long on the close of this bar.

Yes. I too watched with bated breath as the number ticked towards 2,000 and then thru it. Great Job Soul. Thanks for such a nice place to call home. * I like the idea of mutli levels for the members. Members would have to be at that level to post there, but lesser level members could read the posts. * However, I think there should be a level that is NOT accessible to all members from the start. In this level there could be an exchange of "not ready for prime time viewing " ideas. At some point the person who started the thread might want to let everyone view it (by starting a "sister thread" at a lower level), but he/she might want to restrict who sees it in the beginning stages. * As far as repetitive questions go, I point to numbers: 95% of traders lose. Now if that is true, it stands to reason that what drive this business is the influx of NEW traders. They are bound to ask the same questions that have been asked before. Most new traders will walk down the same path of the 95% that lost. Clearly the questions would be the same. Simply, in a business with high turnover, repetitive questions are part of the deal. Seasoned traders should actually like this. If there were no newbies then the seasoned traders would be trading amongst themselves. Not as profitable a proposition as trading with clueless newbies. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against newbies. Just trying to make a point for those whose tire of the same questions.

Nice charts. Glad to see that it is working for you. Are you able to get more profit per trade than with a fixed target? Now..........if we can just get those MA's off your chart. LOL

Very nice and welcome aboard.

nice job. Keep up the good work.

BF, do you scalp? As far as waiting for another WRB, correct, one would just wait as long as it takes. But remember, the definition of a WRB is the largest body of the last 3 intervals. So WRBs are not simply ultra huge bars. The wider the more significant but a "narrow" body could be WRB of the prior intervals are extremely narrow. I am glad you are finding value in this concept. Like I said, I like the fact that WRBs are market driven. The more we can get out of our own way and listen to the market the better.

NewsFX, I see you are running the KPcurrency system. What I don't see is the bar you asking about. The bar with the text underneath looks like a SHAKE OUT or a test bar. If you are asking about the bar with the arrow a 3 bars earlier, yes that looks like a test. Tests come in many forms. The Ideal test would have a narrow range, volume less than the previous two bars, close lower than the previous bar and close on its high. So while that bar is not ideal, it is a test nevertheless.

NO WAY. Bite your tongue. The concept is not mine to give. NihabaAshi did hint at it in his post about WRBs: It is also beyond this thread as this thread is more about VSA than WRBs.

LOL. Clearly no method is without some negatives. First, do you scale out, or exit all the position on the first WRB? While one needs to do what fits their individual personality, the idea is once the first pt is hit, all other pts MUST be higher than the first. So if price does move in the opposite direction you would NOT be exiting at further WRBs. Now as for the trailing stop. I would place it 1 or 2 ticks from the low of the body. As long as the that is not on an even number or a round number. More correctly, 1 tick below unless that is an even number or a round number (which of course, is even). If it was, then I would use 2 ticks. I don't know what happened in this chart, but it looks like you would still be in on the last bar shown.

I struggle with this one. My sensei uses WRB's to scale out of positions. That is, as partial profit taking opportunities. WRB's represent changes or shifts in supply/demand. They also are support and resistance zones created by the market itself. I however, must stay true to my own belief system. I believe in surrendering to the market, in following it. In mirroring it. I am partial to the idea of staying in the trade as long as the market will let me. Taking a profit at a profit target is about what I want and it is trying to predict the future when it is not necessary to do so. I believe the amount of profit that can be realized by staying in a market that trends beyond expectations, will more than offset those times when the market takes you out at a lesser amount than had you exited at a target. WRB are created by the market itself and are thus superior to mathematical targets however. Because of what WRBs can be, I am more inclined to move a trailing stop to just below the most recent WRB. This way one is using the markets own information to manage the trade while refraining from unnecessary prediction and speculation.

I wanted to redress this nice post. I have taken another screen shot that is more up to date. Admittedly, this is after the fact as well as hard right edge analysis. First, Todd Kreuger still sees weakness in the market and is calling for prices to fall this week. Note that the last black double arrow points to Friday’s action. This bar is a NO DEMAND bar: it closes up from previous bar, closes in its middle and has volume less than the previous two bars. I will begin at the beginning. The first thing we see is a wide spread down bar on ultra high volume. This bar is also a WRB. WRB analysis tells us that changes/shifts in supply/demand occur in bars such as these. From a VSA perspective, we have a large range bar that closes down from the previous bar, but closes off its low with ultra high volume. THERE MUST BE DEMAND (BUYING) IN THIS BAR. If this bar was weak, then the close should be on the low. The next bar is key. This bar closes up. Truly if the previous bar was selling, then this bar should NOT be up. However, we need to take a look at this up bar. Note that the volume is even higher than the previous bar, but the range is narrow. Something is keeping the range down: Supply (Selling Pressure). The next bar is a High Volume Test. It closes on or near its high, makes a lower low and closes below the previous bar. Again the volume here is high for a test. Which is why the next bar is down and what we actually have is a FAILED TEST. Now jump to the next bar with the double arrow. This bar closes lower than the previous bar, closes on or near its lows and has volume less than the previous two bars. THIS IS NO SUPPLY. We do indeed move up a bit from this point. Price moves up and then comes back down. At this point, our secondary method (Japanese Candlestick patterns) is traversing into a valid bullish white hammer pattern. Note the Hammer. THIS IS ANOTHER TEST. The bar makes a lower low, closes on or near its high and closes up with high volume. If the volume was ultra high, we might call this a SHAKE OUT and see strength, but as a high volume test we see weakness. The Professional Money is testing for sellers and they are finding some. In other words, there is supply underneath this market. Still, price moves up. We do expect a move back into the WRB support/resistance zone. The reason is beyond the scope of this thread. Which brings up back to the NO DEMAND sign on Friday. If you use the WRB's as profit target signals there was two so far. It may be time to move the stop just below the last WRB.

PRICE ACTION: For me, price action is just that-the action of price and the price bars (candles). How wide is the range of the bar? Is price up from the prior interval? Is price making higher highs or Lower Lows? Is the spread of this bar wider than the spread of the previous bar? Is the close on or near the high of the range of the bar? Are we closing higher than the open more than closing lower than the open? These are the types of things that PRICE ACTION encompasses. A much more esoteric understanding of price action involves CANDLE FORMATION. Not candle formations, but the formation of an individual candle line. Does the candle end the period with price on the high, but actual only traded to the high in the last 10 seconds of the 3 minute bar. Did price trade down to the low of the bar and remain there the entire interval? If price immediately trades down to the low (not known till close of period) and stays there, the was more selling pressure than buying pressure (leaving volume aside for the moment). Does price move up and down through out the bar's range and then close in the middle and equal to the open? Well the action shows indecision. Note that this is a Doji, but no knowledge of candlesticks could tell you that the bar is a bar of indecision. These are the elements of PRICE ACTION for me. SUPPLY/DEMAND: 1. First my perspective is from VSA 2. Read selling (supply) and buying (demand). Before you do 2, however, it is best to understand supply and demand via the stock market. Supply means the actual stock being placed into the market. Like anything, too much tends to lead to falling prices. Demand means stock being taken out of the market. If there are many people chasing few goods price will tend to rise. That is just basic Econ 101. Now in futures and currencies we can substitute supply with selling and demand with buying. Contracts are created by both a buyer and a seller so there is always a contract created. In stocks the amount of stock is "finite". VSA teaches that strength comes in on down bars and weakness comes in on up bars. Strength is buying (demand) and weakness is selling (supply). One needs to look at where the close is in relation to the size of the spread, the volume on the bar, the close in relation to the prior bar and the close of the next bar. All of these need to be looked at to determine if the high volume is associated with supply or demand. Check out Tradeguider.com if you want to learn more about VSA and the CBOT has a few webinars. Continue to read this thread and others for more understanding.

Thanks. It's a 5 min spot Euro chart.