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vienna
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Everything posted by vienna
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Another example is a guy recommended by jack h. himself, as in "great traders you never heard of", john netto . If I had time, I would look up the posts for you on et. Jack actually met him at an expo, and they see eye to eye. John wrote books and teaches ( for a fee). He wrote a book called "hit and run trading". Are you guys now saying jack does not know what a profitable trader is? Another one is Gail mercer, mentioned by Corey a few posts ago. Very nice lady, she has a room, and she scalps successfully. :-)
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Unlike your handle suggests, you seem to be logically challenged: 1. Statement: "anybody who charges for trading advice is not profitable trading" 2. Don miller is a trader- proof: his record, publicly available 3. Don miller teaches, and for a fee- proof: see above 4. Don miller is profitable, audited. Hint: you said so yourself, a post ago. 5. Therefore, 1. Is incorrect. Conclusion: not ALL traders who teach for a fee are unprofitable. Or. As spyder used to say "all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles". And no- in case this is misunderstood again-this is not a plug or an offer to teach you for money :-) Ok, back to the regular scheduled program.
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:):)!!! You figure it out...
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I don't know how you people think. The way I see it, Spyder and Jack have generously shared a huge amount of information. I actually read it. However, having tracked down quite a few of the "old hands" from ET, some of which have been doing this for a decade (!), I had a hard time finding people that even claimed they were consistently profitable, let alone coming close to the results talked about in the threads. Some of them still papertrade, believe it or not. So, if you cannot figure this out from the threads (and it is my opinion that it is very difficult, too much info that is downright wrong, or slightly off, or contradictory, too many misunderstandings through language, too many nuances), you might spend years and thousands of hours trying unsuccessfully to figure it out. It is still a mystery how Spyder ever did it, given that he learned it from Jack whose communication skills are somewhat challenging.By the way, a lot of the info that some of the old timers post as answers to questions is downright wrong, even though "free". So-what is your time worth? At least 20 bucks per hour one would hope? You might end up with the equivalent of an Ivy-league tuition in opportunity cost for these "free" threads that "pay it forward". Some of the people that spend years on the threads seem to have ended up in a psychological state that I would not wish to pay forward to my worst enemy. So, if somebody offers to spend something like 20 hours with you for a measly 500 bucks, the only valid questions IMO would be 1. does he know what he is talking about? and 2. can he actually explain this so that I will be able to trade the method profitably, with some practice? If the answer is No, then walk away. If the answer is yes, even thousands of dollars would obviously not be too much, and much cheaper than studying the "free"stuff which is not free because it is hugely expensive in the most precious of all resources, time. Having said that, there is also a kind of whiny aspect to that demand that somebody spent time with you for free,a certain sense of entitlement, like a petulant child. Nobody owes you anything (especially not in the trading environment), and why should anybody spend hours of his time for free? I would do it, but for friends and family, and certainly not for people that think I somehow owe it to them. As to the logical leap that "anybody who charges me anything is a vendor and cannot trade", I urge you to consider Don Miller...he makes millions per year, fully audited, and he teaches people for a fee (he gives that fee to charity, but that is his personal choice and besides the point). Just my two cents- am not getting in a flame war, for the reason you guessed- waste of time...
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I think you need more MADA. Let me explain by referring to the way you responded to my questions: 1.MONITOR: Your thought process should have been: What are the questions the poster (Vienna) is asking? The questions were about 1. Degapping Daily charts and 2. The Filters in TN. Had you monitored correctly it would have been clear to you that the questions were not any of the below ( Should you experience problems with this step, I suggest the next time you ask yourself "What wasn't that?"): -Do I (CNMS) think trading Equities is a good idea for Vienna? -Do I think one makes more money trading Equities or Futures? -Do I think Equities are for beginners? -Do I think Vienna is a beginner because he asks about Equities? -Does your dog bite? or any other-equally irrelevant- questions. Monitoring correctly would have saved you from answering questions that were not asked, and from statements such as "it does not matter if there is another one who trades it successfully or not today". 2. ANALYZE: Providing you had mastered the first step, you could now have proceeded to step 2: Analyze "Am I qualified to answer the poster's question?" The correct answer would have been: "No! I am not, since I do not know about Equities, I do not know about the Equities filters in TN, I do not trade Equities myself profitably (since I think they are for beginners and small children only) and I do not know anybody who does, so- logically- I am not qualified to answer the questions!". Going through this thought process would have saved you from the embarassing statement that equities are for beginners only. Out of sheer kindness, and since people like you are convinced only by what their gurus tell them, let me help out with a PM that Jack sent me a long time ago (when he would still answer PM's on ET): 2013-07-03_1953 - vienna99's library This was long before I even considered JHM, I gladly send you the whole PM for your education. The thought that Jack considers them "a must" might give even you pause perhaps... 3. DECIDE: Had you mastered Step 1 and 2, the options would have been clear: Since I (CNMS) understand the question and since I am not qualified to answer it, I either: 1. Do not respond. This would have saved you from the embarassing comment above, and from the equally inane statement that "if you hold overnight obviously the gap matters, because it affects you P&L". Duh. So it does when you de-gap 5 min bars, and you guys did not seem bothered a bit when that discussion went on... 2. Respond, and perhaps even learn something "I (CNMS) do not know about equities trading, but might be interested to find out how or if it could be done profitably" 4. ACT: The two options above seemed to be clear choices, but a that point you were already so far off that the only alternatives presenting themselves to you were: 1. Tell the poster (Vienna) that he shouldn't be trading equities 2. Tell the poster that you (CNMS) knew that he (Vienna) must be a beginner because he asks such stupid questions 3. Wax on wisely about protecting Newbies from misleading information and how you can tell the status of a trader at a glance, and, just generally make an ass of yourself. You see- it isn't so hard! Vienna :)
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Frenchfry, please see PM
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It appears so...: 2013-07-02_2056 - vienna99's library 2013-07-02_2058 - vienna99's library I was wondering why Spyder's filter did not include it in his indicator and if he had dropped it at one point.
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*Sigh* Again: Thank you for responding, but I was not asking for your advice on if it was a good idea to trade equities or not. I asked some specifics about them, in the case you knew somebody who traded them profitably....it appears that you do not, which is an answer as well...:-) Instead, I find myself in a completely different discussion...in which case, glad to help: You are (of course) wrong in "PVT makes sense only for beginners"...and "SCT on a future vehicle makes much more money". This might apply to you if you trade a $5000 account, otherwise please review this post from Jack: Forums - Questions How to Get Started Trading with Probabilities "My best day was 17 points on 100K shares"... (in any case, I am glad that you have reached a level of profitability that exceeds these paltry numbers...:-)....) To put it another way, Jack's stated Standard for excellence for PVT was 10% every 2 weeks, which comes to about 1000%/ year. I take that for 30 mins to 1 hr/day effort. You're welcome. :-) Now back to my question....
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Providing those who actually use PVT actually exist Thanks! Do you know why the RS and EPS requirements are not in the scans? Did Spyder drop them?
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Thats what I had thought as well, thanks. But it appears that it completely changes the picture of the move: for example, one of the highest vol bars changes from black to red etc. For this equity, the degapped chart shows a consistent down-trend. Had you traded it like this, you would probably have gotten clobbered. Independent of that: Did you ever get the scans to work? I have heard from a couple of people by now who had the same result- no stocks- after scanning... Thanks!
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Thank you, but I am not interested in daytrading equities. My question was: Do you know anybody who is trading the equities method successfully? And if so, do they de-gap the daily charts?
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The second question I have is concerning de-gapping of daily charts. I know there is something of a fetish about de-gapped charts with Hershey acolytes.... "gaps do not exist etc etc"...de-gapped charts seem to work fine in intraday futures charts, seamlessly stitching the days together. But it appears daily charts are a different animal: have a look at 2 attached charts. this is the same stock! the second chart is de-gapped, that's the only difference! Both are daily charts. Now, somewhere in the ET thread there is a post where the first person posted a degap indicator (for NT I think)- sometime in 2008, AFTER the equities thread. And then Spyder got TN to de-gap as well when he published his Indicators, but at that point he was not even trading equities anymore. So- is it recommended to de-gap daily stock charts as well? Looking at the charts above, if you have stock that gaps often, this can give a completely different picture, with a completely different trend. I find it hard to believe that a massive 4 year downtrend (which is what the de-gapped chart shows) should somehow be hidden within a chart where price actually improved 40% over the same 4 years...? Does not seem to make any sense... Anybody has some experience with this? Thanks!
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So I am looking into the Equities method... trying to leverage my chart reading skills (improved through the intraday futures stuff) for a swing trading environment, for several reasons of my own. I found that it appears difficult to find anybody who actually trades the equities method for a living and posts on a forum- I won't speculate on the reasons here why that is the case. But- if somebody reads this and does trade the Equities successfully, perhaps they can advise: First, the scans. I went through the Trade Navigator scans, they seem to still work OK :I isolated each criteria and tested it seperatly (by eyeballing....they seem to do the job), but for example the current scan comes up empty/ see attached image Does anybody know why that would be the case/have experience in this? Is that common? Also, the scans do not include two of the original criteria (RS>80 and EPS >90)...anybody knows why? Thanks!
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Which one? I heard there are several aliases...:-)
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Ok... I think I figured out what happened: 1. Somebody else (probably a sexy blonde, from all the hints... a jilted girlfriend perhaps) is using Mr. Blacks handle and is posting rubbish in his name. 2. CNMS has found the holy grail: Not only does he know exactly what Spyder and Jack are trading at the moment, but he also knows that it does not reach the method's full potential! 3. Jack has finally found the charting equivalent to his writing (=the least comprehensible representation of price movement possible)... perfect! At least that is my analysis...:)
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QED: ".In my opinion the biggest blunder in JH Method is that he thinks for price and volume like a object like a shape, the shape doesn't means nothing, the price shape is not important..." (Mr. B)
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This method has morphed from the beginning of ET to the end of the ET threads, then from the beginning of TL to the end of TL (hint:after 2009). So it was probably only a matter of time until somebody said "well maybe we don't need channels at all, including the ftt etc. etc."....feels a bit like the movie "the master", where the dogma keeps changing but the goal remains elusive. From my personal research, a surprising (to me) number of people which used to be prominent in the different threads seem to either have never mastered it, are trading something else entirely (several told me so), are trading paper or still struggling etc. On the other hand, the (quite few) people that I have met that actually have mastered it, do it with fractals, containers, Ftt's and the whole lot. Hell- some have never even posted on any of the forums! The temptation to look for a software tweak (de-gapped bars! new indicators!) as the next new thing for salvation is great, I know that...maybe it works for somebody, good for them... these things can be big time wasters though, and- amongst other questions, we have no idea if Jack actually trades this...and it is unlikely we will ever know...I am very grateful to him, but trying to get a clear answer from Jack is like trying to nail oatmeal to a wall, as you all know: I once tried to run something by him by email. He told me on ET to post a temporary email address and that he would respond. (See ET/Forums - Why does TA not work (for you)?) I did. No answer. I gently reminded him, he said "my bad" and that he would get in touch. This went back and forth several times...never got my answer and eventually just gave up.......:)
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"but if you ask me trend lines, and shapes are only in your imagination"... !!!!!!! You have got to be kidding me! Of all people- Mr. Black....that is almost like Spyder saying he now realizes TL's don't work...not quite, but close... So- I have to ask- what about your (maybe hundreds) of posts on ET, all these prints showing profitable trades...are you saying you could never reach consistency with this method (=trading with trend lines)?
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Aha...I guess it does exist...:-) So it drags the lines with the bars....what software is that?
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"The trend lines do not jump at all.. Inter-bar degapping IS superior."- Thank you, now I am really convinced...:-)..."sigh". OF course they jump! How could they not? You need to move either the previous bars or the future bars to remove the gap. The open of each new bar has to line up with the close of the last bar. NT has an indicator that de-gaps bars, I had it- you try to draw a trendline, good luck. If I remember correctly, it moved the previous bars. If it shifted the current bar to remove a gap, prices would be completely off by the end of day. Unless there is a software that moves the TL's with the price, if so- please let me know which one can do this: i lobbied with the owner of TN for months to achieve it, without success (and several others did too), just to remove the hassle of moving lines in the morning. He was afraid of liability issues for the software if it displayed non-existant price bars and people placed trades based on it. As to Spyder liking that post: I personally know (because we discussed it in the last few days) from somebody who was as close to Spyder as anybody that S. thought that whole intrabar de-gapping thing was complete hogwash. Maybe he changed his mind after that post, I don't know. But enough of this: if you guys can make intrabar degapping and drawing TL's work, please post it here.If you are already doing it- just post a video.Anyways....I'll stop now.
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"First time I read this idea from Spydertrader, and I guess Jack took it from him, or as in other cases it might've been an older element of Jack's method uncovered by Spydertrader at a certain moment." Actually, Spyder apparently said on several occasions that de-gapping individual bars makes absolutely no sense. I can get you more info as to when he said that, if needed... "It might be also useful to determine if a VE closed in the zone, or if a lateral ended." Independent of the fact that if you can't draw a trendline, you obviously can't determine what a VE is: why on earth would you need de-gapped bars to determine either of these?? "If you try to use a concept you don't fully understand, it's likely that you'll use it incorrectly and you'll draw the wrong conclusions." Very true, see above... :-)
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Guys- intra-bar degapping? Are you sure? Just to clarify: you ARE aware that that would mean the trendlines would jump at every bar, right? Or rather- price would jump relative to your trendlines. Which means you could not draw trendlines, therefore you would not know when you have crossed a TL/ closed outside. And you could not draw an FTT nor a VE either.... So- you are saying that it would be advantageous to trade this method without trendlines and without FTT's..??
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Second that...! Vienna
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Trade Navigator has them set up
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1. No, Spyder does not post here for a while 2. Head over to Elite Trader, go to the thread "Software to trade Jack Hershey Method" 3. Contact Stepan7 and Nkhoi, they have developed a great channel tool! best of luck, Vienna