rigel

Have a look at the link: Brooks Price Action - The Mathematics of Trading

Since every market is manipulated to some extent, how does Taylor's methodology perform on CL as per your limited experience. . I want to start tracking the market and observe for myself whether or not Taylors rules apply here. Presume it is SS day as per the count here. Notice you trade from daily charts, wonder why not from 15min or less.

Since every market is manipulated to some extent, how does Taylor's methodology perform on CL as per your limited experience. What was the day assigned for Friday, ie. B, S or SS. I want to start tracking the market and observe for myself whether or not Taylors rules apply here. Notice you trade from daily charts, wonder why not from 15min or less. BTW in Index futures if you find ES sluggish, TF and NQ can be alternative Dax can be positively explosive. You would ofcourse have to get up very early to take advantage of first couple of hours action:), however once the US opens, there is enough movement to exceed that in ES. Even FTSE is behaving that way recently as well.

You will certainly find value in Taylor, his work is genius, he understood market manipulation like no other, was obviously a trader first and a writer last, don't think he scored much at writing essays in school:) Where most people goof up is due to designation of days as BUY,SELL, SELL SHORT days, he could have just called them Day1, Day2, Day3, it is the cycle that is of paramount importance, do not make the crucial mistake of fitting the days action into the cycle. If once you get the hang of the rules that govern each day, then the focus is on the primary play for the day, this is what the big boys do. The exact calculations of the projected levels etc are important but you don't have to get into that if you don't want to, for a very small subcription you can obtain all that plus much more from Richbois. I am in no way promoting his service for I have learnt to keep the book, albeit not to the same standard and sophistication as Richbois who obviously is adept at programming in Excel:)

Yes Taylors book is certainly a very hard slog and totally worth it, have to go over each para time and again making notes drawing patterns etc but each chapter is a gem. As I said before both WHY? and Richbois have done a great job at clarifying lots of concepts on the Taylor thread, it was a shame it was hijacked by a very bellicose participant.

SOME QUOTES BY WHY? "Post 101 “Keep it simple guys Taylor didn't need all that nor did he have the computer. He just sought to capture the main trend each day. He woudn't have known what you guys talking about.” Post 306 “Of course, the key in Taylor is how do you start the count and do you allow re-cycling and if so, how do you determine when to re-cycle and how long does the re-cycling last. Of course, these are keys that I won't be revealing. However, I might say this; if my explanation confuses you then simply learn Taylor well...follow his rules...keep his sequence...and I think you will be pleased with the results providing you are disciplined and can trade on facts and on what the market is doing and not on emotions. Taylor, I like to say, devised a system to "clock" price movement in the markets and it is a pretty good system in my books with a high win rate (at least for me) if one can understand it and follow it...especially the rules. Read the book and study it 50 or more times over the course of a couple of years. I have many trading books. If I were forced to keep one it would be Taylor, no if, ands, or buts about it!!” Here is one by Richbois: I had to re read the 1st 4 chapters more than 100 times just to start my trading book. Than read the rest of the book many times just to understand the stuff that is written between the lines There is lots of good stuff on that thread and as a matter of fact I copied lots of Frank's quotes in my book (with his permission of course) and he was using market profile to mix with Taylor which i had to take out as I was trying to explain Taylor not MP We all have a different tool box and what I can see is that TTT must be part of it

Some of the Posts by WHY? "Post 101 “Keep it simple guys Taylor didn't need all that nor did he have the computer. He just sought to capture the main trend each day. He woudn't have known what you guys talking about.” Post 306 “Of course, the key in Taylor is how do you start the count and do you allow re-cycling and if so, how do you determine when to re-cycle and how long does the re-cycling last. Of course, these are keys that I won't be revealing. However, I might say this; if my explanation confuses you then simply learn Taylor well...follow his rules...keep his sequence...and I think you will be pleased with the results providing you are disciplined and can trade on facts and on what the market is doing and not on emotions. Taylor, I like to say, devised a system to "clock" price movement in the markets and it is a pretty good system in my books with a high win rate (at least for me) if one can understand it and follow it...especially the rules. Read the book and study it 50 or more times over the course of a couple of years. I have many trading books. If I were forced to keep one it would be Taylor, no if, ands, or buts about it!!” Here is a post by Richbois: I had to re read the 1st 4 chapters more than 100 times just to start my trading book. Than read the rest of the book many times just to understand the stuff that is written between the lines There is lots of good stuff on that thread and as a matter of fact I copied lots of Frank's quotes in my book (with his permission of course) and he was using market profile to mix with Taylor which i had to take out as I was trying to explain Taylor not MP We all have a different tool box and what I can see is that TTT must be part of it

Great Post on Taylor Thales, The subject has been discussed in greater detail on this link: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f110/taylor-trading-technique-2623.html'>http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f110/taylor-trading-technique-2623.html As you mentioned Taylor's book is not an easy read, even Angell and Linda Raschke failed to understand the core strategy:)) The heart of the problem is that vast majority make the biggest mistake to take price action of the day and then designate that as a Buy day (if prices rose on that day) and SELL or SS day(if prices dropped all day). Taylor's rules are quite clear and objective. It will take considerable effort to get your head around it at first:))) I am afraid there just are no short cuts: Study the thread on Taylor (80pages), http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f110/taylor-trading-technique-2623.html all the clarification one needs is there, focus on questions from Hakuna, Bearbull, Monad and responses from WHY?, Frank, Richbois, ignore all else especially posts by those who are trying to introduce any variations. However initial exchanges between dogpile and WHY? are worthwhile, unfortunately despite lengthy clarifications, you will observe that dogpile just did not get it:))) as he was constantly trying to fit the days action into the cycle.

Folks come across Wyckoff via forums, from other traders, internet search , VSA etc, Here Dbphoenix has been largely responsible for establishing the Wyckoff forum and his contribution has been invaluable. VSA/Traderguider unfortunately start with Wyckoff talk and then steer you onto their own take and exorbitantly priced software/seminars/VSA club, DVDs etc, whereas you can pick up most of wyckoff principles/concepts freely on the forum her:))

Interesting and accurate Thales Looks like lots of folks in these markets are employing fib numbers. BTW are the exit targets (green lines) fib values i.e 1.68, 2.68 of the range between the 2 blue lines? If you had traded this, where would be your entry and stop loss?

You are right, there are many variations to 1-2-3 setup under different names depending on whether it is being employed to identify a trend reversal or trend continuation. e.g. Humphrey Lloyd (Traders Press- Trading S&P futures, 1997) used this pattern in conjunction with Bollinger Bands, Joe Ross has also done the same as well as introducing his version with Ross Hook , Trader's trick Entry etc. Then there is Vic Sperando ofcourse with his 1-2-3 and 2b or not 2b:) Others (see attached word document) have introduction terms such as SNAPBACK and other modifications with trendlines etc to gain better entry. Recently Al Brooks combined that pattern with Wedges, Trade Channel Breakout and reversal etc. Once again demonstrating, "There is more than one way to skin a cat;) A Pattern you can trade using nothing but a Price Chart.doc

Thanks thalestrader for your response, yes there are as many trading styles as number of traders out there, your simple approach based solely on PA is pretty effective and very much consistent with TraderVic method, Al brook also mentions it as one of the most reliable in his book. However noticed that you defined 1, 2, 3 as per TraderVic ie. 1-Trendline Break, 2, Test of swing high, 3, Break of swing low and then when you marked those on your charts , the 2 appears to be on swing low and 3 as test of swing high. Any reason for that, or have I got it wrong:)))

thalestrader, received this from a colleague, any views on this pair EUR/AUD "The EUR/AUD is an important forex cross in the realm of risk appetite/aversion. The Aussie's high yield and aggressively growing commodity-linked economy offers a nice play for emerging market risk chasers, while the Euro's liquidity make it a relative safe haven (though in the longer term, the irony is that global competitive debasement will lend commodity-linked currencies more bullish credence than the Euro's Eastern Europe-linked toilet paper). During the liquidity crunch of fall 2008, the EUR/AUD surged from the 1.6000s to the 2.1000s and during the QE liquidity-fueled risk asset rally from March 2009, the cross tanked back. It is now sitting at summer 2007 levels, at multi-year support around 1.55, well below pre-Lehman levels. Meanwhile, the descending channel that has defined its descent since spring of last year is growing tired, and a reversal centered around 1.55 support may be at hand. Some consolidation around this area with an eventual breakout through the descending channel trendline may confirm a reversal at hand. And such a reversal would indicate a return to a rush to liquidity, long overdue yet delayed by various black hole-engendering liquidity infusions from central banks. This is an important cross to watch, especially in the context of the carry trade-fueled risk asset bubble that exists today, and a reversal could indicate a sharp mean reversion back to reality. I personally was short the EUR/AUD from around 1.97 from the symmetrical triangle breakdown and had covered most of my position (admittedly prematurely) by around 1.87 when the cross hit its 200DMA. My entire position was fully covered at around 1.60 and I am looking to get long once the charts confirm a reversal at hand. This will also be an important indicator for my short triggers in other risk assets, including equities.

Check out the following link: Amazon.com: Reading Price Charts Bar by Bar: The Technical Analysis of Price Action for the Serious Trader (Wiley Trading) (9780470443958): Al Brooks: Books There is also a thread on price action with Al Brooks here on Traders Lab, couple that with all the free info. on Wyckoff in the wyckoff forum here, ie. reading price along with volume

Thanks to you and thalestrader, actually I should have clarified, I was thinking of Nasdaq futures as here you have the nickname EminiNQtrader. So 1pt =$20 was in reference to that instrument, If you trade that, do you find liquidity good enough and do you encounter much slippage???

EmNQ Do not trade this instrument but am curious, is 1pt equivalent to $20, Also how did you determine the target??

Hi chrisp, It is during these holiday periods that my mind is somewhat free from my own trading, however it would be a mistake to assume that Institutions are absent, infact they are very much vigilant, waiting like leopards for the right opportunity to make a killing, Have a look at the following link: REGISTRATION IS FREE Brooks Price Action - Log in They bored the whole world to death for hours letting the market drift sideways, all the while cunningly selling short, then it was the final push up to suck in the longs before taking it south IN THE FINAL 30MIN with huge vol. Most traders would have been left dazzled like the deer in the headlights of a car:))) So today the big boys celebrate expecting huge bonuses to splash out in the exotic tropical Islands. HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR TO YOU

Thanks again Forrestang, yes I realise TRO is trying to outline a simple method but in reality making a bigger job of it than what it should be. 1. As for Trading in one direction, it is very much also the core strategy in Taylor's method where days are designated as BUY, SELL and SELL SHORT DAY, ofcourse this does not mean just buy on BUY DAY and sell of other 2 days, there are rules to govern trading in his method and very much misunderstood generally, infact his publication is almost unreadable, Taylor was first and foremost an accomplised trader and not much skilled at explanation. 2. So in that respect I was prepared to give TRO the benefit of doubt but after 5 or so post, I feel I am not going to make any headway. I simply wanted to understand his method in the light of what I already utilise ie. pure price action. 3. Recently in terms of simplicity Al Brooks trading style, simply using a 5min chart with a 20MA based purely on price action stands out, the other one being the Wyckoff Forum here where if you notice, nobody as such is trying any hard sell tactics, least of all DBphoenix, infact he has a short publication (pure gem) which he does not advertise at all, OTOH has made a ton of invaluable material available for free. Unfortunately new traders have a mindset of seeking something expensive viewed as of value, anything free has to be rubbish;) 4. As for TRO I really fail to understand, almost seems to take bizzare delight in pasting large charts day after day, as if to taunt his critics here "he, he, he, look I am making a ton of dosh daily, here are my charts, bet none of you morons can figure out what my method is, I walk majestically like an Elephant while you lot keep barking like dogs all day long". Well if he gets his kicks out of that who am I to object to that vicarious pleasure:) HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND TRO AND BEST OF LUCK FOR 2010

And A HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO make an attempt to post something about your own methodology, charts ETC and engage in meaningful productive discussions for a change instead of going around various threads and instructing other traders. Examine how many out of your 500 posts actually constitute discussion of specific method of your own. anyway good luck for the year

Chrisp, Well put and well thought out, however the scenario you outlined does not always pan out especially in a strong downtrend, Have a look at Bearbulls thread "Trading the Wyckoff Way" Many a times the reversals just last for a few bars, then the prices head south on low vol, not because supply has been removed or market is probing into high vol area, but THERE ARE NO BUYERS, ONLY SELLERS, HENCE LACK OF VOL. Similar scenario on in a strong Uptrend, also explained in Bearbull's thread HAPPY NEW YEAR

TRO 1. I am not bothered about what Rearden or anybody else said, my question is pertinent to what you are posting. If it has nothing to do with timeframe, then how are you determining high and low of the bar, any bar has to be in some timeframe:)) 2. What does "default parameters" mean. I requested clarification, after about 4posts I am none the wiser. 3. It appears that you alone understand the methodology and are having problems getting it across to the readers here. perhaps you need to make some effort in expanding on your comments.

o.k So TRO, back to our discussion, 1. From above it appears that the basic strategy, correct me if I am wrong, isf fading the high or low of 60min bars, or is it the high/low of the current trading day range 2. Also having looked at the link you pasted (forex site), I am still not clear about the 3 or 2 or 1 Zig Zag levels, again you mention indicator, what are the parameters you incoporate to arrive at these swings, ie. based on which or what price action, since pure price action is your core strategy.

Svensa, I recall getting into loggerheads with you in the past. It is quite amazing that you were promoted to the status of a moderator despite the fact that you have not made a single positive contribution to this site but have become proficient and adept at tracking /shadowing/stalking other folks like Dbphoenix, Bearbull, and now it is me. and to top it all, it is ironically that you also have one or two followers to pat you on your back and add to your tally of thanks on your record:) Way back in Feb or any other period, I many have come in here and looked at some threads, made a remark here or there and then focussed on topics which were more important to my trading ie. Taylor Methodology and Wyckoff Recently I had time so I decided to check out TRO, and obtain some clarification which is constantly getting interrupted by moronic remarks like yours, thus extending the length of this thread and making it difficult to have a meaningful exchange with TRO, surely that is not a crime unless Soultrader has now elevated you to the grand status of a SITE POLICEMAN OR DEPUTY DOG Refrain from jumping in like a spoilt child, think, employ some logic or take a course in logic before you spew out anything. This is an auspicious holiday period, why do you have to come in AND spoil proceedings to elicit further controversy. If you cannot contribute anything positive, why not spend time constructively like focussing the mind on the teachings of some Great Sages like Christ or Buddha or Krishna or whoever you believe in

TRO Thanks for your response. Could you clarify further: 1. Presume you are using 60min chart swings to determine zigzag 1, 2, and 3, on what basis do you differentiate zigzag 1 and 2 and 3. Yes you have shown 3 charts marking the swings, however swings in say 3 comprises of many swings up and down within the lines joining 3, what count or maths do you use to arrive at this? because at first glance it appears arbitrary ie. not dependent on any price action via support/resistance, trendlines or trend channel. 2. In the above post you have indicated OPPORTUNITY. can you elaborate on which instrument you are talking about and why? with further clear charts with notes on how the trade was taken and how it panned out. again without going on to mention any indicators you may or may not have developed. I think this simple exercise would do away with all this criticism that you are facing.

Thanks Kiwi, yes I have seen some of these scams on T2W, Elitetrader etc. Here I would not call VSA or Price Action trading by Al brooks as scams per se, there is definitely some value there. As I mentioned previously VSA /Tradeguider crowd have definitely benefited financially from posting in here, all that was required for budding traders to realise the fact that it was first imperative to study the original Wyckoff material. Same with Al Brooks price action thread, numerous folks have purchased his book and listened to his seminars at Futures Magazine shows and have found great value in respect of trading, so much so that due to popular demand somebody with IT experience started a website with chat room , daily commentaries and now a subscription room with a monthly chart of $99/month, this will a live audio (no Q&A) with realtime trading, It is not Al Brooks website, he has been requested to act as consultant to which he has agreed with a provision that if it affects his own trading, he will immediately discontinue his role. Hence it is clear that without websites like TL allowing some of these threads here , new traders would be running around like headless chicken trying to find the right info. As for whether or not TRO is scammer, I have no idea, I have no intention of getting any indicators as I am well grounded in both Wyckoff and Taylor.. I stumbled onto this site during this holiday period and browsed through some of the pages out of curiosity, noted all this controversy and thought would check the TRO methodology out in the light of Wyckoff principles which incidentally are valid for any timeframe be it 1min or 60min or daily, weekly, monthly etc. I sought clarification on 3 zigzag part, initially thought this was to do with Elliot waves but it looks like it is some math indicator that TRO is using. So I have more questions for TRO. The actual trading part via 60min bar is much more of a momentum based trading which even Al Brooks has adopted as his core trading strategy based entirely on a 5min chart instead of 60min of TRO and very elaborately explained throughout his book and his free seminar recordings. I acknowledge that in many ways it is of eventual benefit to new traders to have guys like you pointing out the scam artists before they are able to extract their hard earned savings and direct many newcomers to the right sources.