clmacdougall

It will take years. Have a nice evening

Your examples and anecdotal evidence are irrelevant. You are speaking from an experience that is also merely your own. I don't think it is outrageous to assume that a profession takes a number of years to properly train oneself for. It is happening at universities and colleges all around you. To keep the gentleman who began this thread from risking too much in order to attempt to make quick work of his education as a trader is responsible/good advice. The exception may indeed be true as you say, but chances are that he, like most of us, may not be the exception, but he may in fact be the rule. Armed with this he may, like many of us, not give up when his aspirations don't quickly manifest. Your advice was much to the contrary, you said if he couldn't attain his goal in a year he was probably not suited for the challenge, not very encouraging and who knows you might be putting down someone who with a little bit more time might learn what is necessary to be a full time trader.

I am dabbling with a non fixed price target structure when trading. Could you please tell me just a little bit about how you discovered this, if it's not too much to ask, Thank you. Cory

You seem so sure of what you think!! It almost sounds like you are speaking in "absolutes" Someone I recently read had something to say about speaking in absolutes. It may help you. "I find it annoying when people wrongly speak in absolutes." - Lornz You'll find the quote on page 2, comment # 13 of the thread "Quit Job To Watch DOM" but I suppose you already know that!!

Schulz is a believer in horizontal development being a precursor to vertical development. This is the notion offered in the point and figure methodology which you're probably aware of. I don't accept it's validity as it pulls away from the markets complexity and sets numerical targets instead of encouraging a constant monitoring of it's health as it moves. Consider the market as a patient on life support and in my opinion you'll have a better chance of understanding it. No one knows for sure whether the patient will live or not but we may know through monitoring if it's getting a little better or worse as time moves on. His book is excellent. It challenges you on so many levels to think about what you believe concerning technical analysis. One of the best I've read so far. I've got 5 books on the go right now, The Definitive Guide To Momentum Indicators - Pring (stinks, based solely on price, fixated on indicators widely known already) The Definitive Guide To Point and Figure - Duplessis ( historical understanding of P&F, but not complex enough. focuses on price too much) Trading and exchanges - Harris (historical in nature, but interesting) The Profitable Art and Science of Vibratrading - Lim ( risky but interesting study of martingale system) Reading Price Charts Bar By Bar - Al Brooks ( 2-3 bar setups under or over a MA. Surprised it got all the attention it did)

Get your old job back. Learn on the side. The process will take years, not meaning to discourage you,only to help you make some good decisions. You are not alone in your experience so please take the advice.

Does MP provide a reliable context to the markets? In my opinion no. Multiple timeframes won't erase that fact. In my opinion MP is eye candy with no usefulness which errantly draws the user into incorrect assumptions about the lean of the market. It shows you a picture of what was, but becase each market decision is made apart from your individual psychology so will each reaction to change be different from yours. Decisions in finance are not made based upon nuclear models or statistical mean reversion models, they are based upon pain, euphoria and expectation. We are not dissecting a dead frog in biology class. The markets are a mass of human psychology based upon differing levels of pain and expectation, volume at price hardly models this. The markets aren't difficult to trade simply because they change, if this was the case static models would be great as reaction to change would be easy to predict. Same players = same reaction. But we all know this is not the case. The diversity of entrants coupled with multiple expectations spells the need for a more meaningful model with realistic expectations of the change it can predict. Yes I did say "predict". That is the point isn't it. Whether your statistical models were done responsibly or not, probability is just another way of saying prediction.

In effect you are using high volume nodes as support and resistance? Were you privy to Steidlmayers latest endeavor, sounds alot like what you just described. You can watch his latest video from the CME last year here at TL. It seems right up your alley. How do you personally use MP to develop a statistical model that is meaningful? On what level do you trade? It sounds, by your use of 15 min candles, that you are not merely a day trader, as you are trading off of these volume nodes with a setup that would remove you from the single day timeframe for sure! Especially if you are looking at the market in context to a crash from months ago!

My apologies, by dynamic I meant meaningful. Prediction is our business, whether it's through massive probability sets we've developed or by following only a singular market element like price, semantics don't matter!! You are resting on your model to produce past results, sounds like prediction to me! That defines responsible speculation, but it does not erase speculation def: speculation is a financial action that does not promise safety of the initial investment along with the return on the principal sum. Though you may or may not be responsibly speculating, based upon how many elements of the market are included in your statistical model set, you are certainly trading with a hope/plan/desire (semantics) that your statistical set will show you the likelihood of the markets next move aka "prediction"!! Why beat around the bush or hide behind words that are only one to two steps removed from "prediction", call it what it is. How in the world does MP in any of it's forms help to improve your statistical model set for the endeavor of speculation, beyond what is available from the individual and seperate elements of the market itself?

How does that make the mean dynamic? Simply because it moves? It moves almost no differently than a MA or an EMA. You are drawing your context of the market from the past and in my opinion you want as little of that as possible in order to define the predictable lean/nature of price movement in the near future.

Finding a statistical mean is relevant when studying a stationary element. It is not relevant when trading the moving targets of a zero sum market. The reason the bell curve is not useful when studying the financial markets is because they are dynamic. If the bell curve was useful in diagnosing the markets there would be no need for psychiatrists as we could all self diagnose ourselves based upon various bell curves available. But because we are each dynamic a personal diagnosis is always needed. Too many elements, beyond what the market profile graphic can show, are at work in the market. For that reason I decided to abandon it as I felt it added no edge in understanding the true complex nature of the markets.

Hi joshdance, Why are you accepting the validity of MP in the first place? It's a misplaced endeavor whose science is meant for evaluating the average height of an american male, not for evaluating something so dynamic as the markets. It is nothing more than the incorrect evolution of the point and figure methodology. Read " The Intelligent Chartist" by John W. Schulz, an incredible book! It becomes clear that you must make a decision concerning the validity of horizontal development in modern technical analysis. To put it simply, horizontal development should either be seen as meaningful or not, whether it's overlapping price (point and figure) overlapping price at time / TPO (early MP) or overlapping volume at price (modern MP). Why are you believing that horizontal development is in any way meaningful? Does it cloud your perception of the markets? Are there easier less confusing ways to look at the market? Contextually who says it helps at all, don't let your head be pointed in a direction without asking why!!

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site. Our vendor list with names product and price: alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching coalportal / group of 5 newsletters / $32,000 per year Dbphoenix / ebook / $30 Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249 doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199 electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000 Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training Jleon / newsletter & system provider / $100 per month news & $2500 system Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only Logic / manual / $750 lrushing / trading education / $37 per month nhallett / 5 hour course / $297 NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473 Plugger / trading program / $1997 Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997 RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990 TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50 thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min Tim Racette / ebook / $49 tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000 zapisy / trading program / $1499 I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

Thanks for reopening the thread MMS. It helps to give us all a sense of dollar value when comparing vendor products.

Is their an ebook available as previously mentioned by ProfLogic?

Let me get this straight, Rande is not a trader? Is this the case zdo? Don't you think it would be quite hard for him to identify with the mix of logic, math, rapid decision making and the possibility of intense emotions that can be attached to a trading experience?

Mitt Romney will no doubt be the next president. The only speculation necessary is who will be his VP? Perry is too risky, I think Bachman would make for a great choice.

Hello and thanks for your post. Could you please explain how you use the fib ratios in your structuring of the market. I've recently ordered a couple of books on the subject as I've become interested in using them myself. Thanks in advance.

Hi Tams, Any idea of what he's trying to sell.

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site. Our vendor list with names product and price: alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching coalportal / group of 5 newsletters / $32,000 per year Dbphoenix / ebook / $30 Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249 doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199 electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000 Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training Jleon / newsletter & system provider / $100 per month news & $2500 system Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only Logic / manual / $750 lrushing / trading education / $37 per month nhallett / 5 hour course / $297 NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473 Plugger / trading program / $1997 Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997 RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990 TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50 thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min Tim Racette / ebook / $49 tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000 zapisy / trading program / $1499 I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site. Our vendor list with names product and price: alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching Dbphoenix / ebook / $30 Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249 doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199 electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000 Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training Jleon / newsletter & system provider / $100 per month news & $2500 system Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only Logic / manual / $750 lrushing / trading education / $37 per month nhallett / 5 hour course / $297 NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473 Plugger / trading program / $1997 Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997 RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990 TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50 thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min Tim Racette / ebook / $49 tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000 zapisy / trading program / $1499 I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

Does updata also give the ability to highlight the actual highs and lows outside of the box areas and does it do a number of boxes in a line count in each row?

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site. Our vendor list with names product and price: alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching Dbphoenix / ebook / $30 Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249 doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199 electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000 Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training Jleon / newsletter & system provider / $100 per month news & $2500 system Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only Logic / manual / $750 lrushing / trading education / $37 per month nhallett / 5 hour course / $297 NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473 Plugger / trading program / $1997 Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997 RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990 TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50 thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min Tim Racette / ebook / $49 tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000 zapisy / trading program / $1499 I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

Hi MMS, I think TL is great, but seeing as you're looking for suggestions I'll give you my:2c: Strip down your old threads and seperate the information from the chit chat. Structure the information into no more than 10-12 catagories. As threads dry up continue to strip them down keeping no more than the rich and relevant information gleaned from each thread. These locked threads would be information rich places to study and would draw in many to visit and become contributing members. Let these stay locked threads with no chit chat activity allowed within them, and any questions or comments could take place outside of these information rich places. Next create a coffee house like atmosphere. Change the colors to be less business like, more relaxing and inviting by nature. People don't come here only to find answers, but also to find friends, make it more inviting. Get a live ticker feed of the futures market, some major stocks and currency pairs. An instant source of update would draw in an unbelievable amount of people. You would see revenue soar, without a doubt!! Finally, create a promotional section for trading/investment writers or the like to be invited to display their wares and become open for interaction with TL members. I'll give you some more suggestions if desired, just let me know what you think.

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site. Our vendor list with names product and price: alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching Dbphoenix / ebook / $30 Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249 doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199 electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000 Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training Jleon / newsletter & system provider / $100 per month news & $2500 system Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only Logic / manual / $750 lrushing / trading education / $37 per month nhallett / 5 hour course / $297 NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473 Plugger / trading program / $1997 Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997 RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990 TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50 thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min Tim Racette / ebook / $49 tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000 I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks