dupaski

I can no longer see the charts as well, but sometimes that happens when a webserver is very busy. Give it a couple of hours and try again.

FWIW have recently spent some time with Jim Dalton at a session he did for a group NYMEX traders and he stated that the use of either time based or volume based POC didn't make a much of a difference. He personally used VPoC in his day to day trading. Use of either shouldn't make too much of a difference in leveraging MP. Lets not miss the forest for the trees......

Thanks for clarifying Chad, I'll take a look at the video.

Here is a link to an example from the book. It's pages 76 and 77: Dynamic Trading Indicators: Winning ... - Google Book Search

It's been a few years since I read the book (Dynamic trading indicators by Stendhal) but a Google book search will show the portion of the book with the main ideas. If I remember correctly it's a statistical distribution method that uses the price of an instrument and it's ability to move away from it's own moving average. In the book he used a SMA 20 on a daily chart to illustrate the point. He then assigns points according to where it is in the distribution: +8 and Above= Significantly overbought- 3 SD or above +4 to +8= Moderately overbought- 2 SD +4 to -4= Normal or value -4 to -8= Moderately overbought- 2 SD -8 and below= Significantly oversold- 3 SD or below In a bell curve +4 to -4 would be the Mean and 1SD areas and the others would fall to the outside as described above. Stendahl used these to play reversions back to the mean.There are several additional items he uses, that is the basic premise behind his value charts. It also seems as if thats how the TTM guys are using it as well.

I have moved over to IRT a few months ago and am starting to play around with the VWAP indicator they have. In looking at how they calculate the bands around the VWAP it's not clear to me if they are using standard deviations (the labels are 1 or 2 times basis). If anyone is using this in IRT I'd be gratetful if they would be able to clear up if this is the same as the VWAP with StDev that others are using (based on Jerry's fine work)? Thanks -DT

I don't know where you would find the posts on the old Yahoo site, but here is the link to a description on NQoos's site: http://www.trading-naked.com/Oatpoints.htm

Thank you for your help, it was appreciated.

Thank you for the response. So the chart attached above is showing how each sector did in relation to the price of the S&P on 1/1/07? The article seemed to indicate that crossing the 0 line showed outperformance of the S&P and I just assumed it was year to date, (i.e. a change in a sectors price was in relation to the change in the S&P day over day). In that scenario, if the index rose 1% and one of the SPDRs rose 1% over the same period it would register as a 0%. IRT will allow for the plotting of multiple instruments on the same scale as a percentage change so I may be able to do this with that combo. It almost seems that this would be easier to do in excel. -Derek

Larry Connors talked about using historical volatility in his book "Advanced Trading Strageties". He would look for stocks where the 6 and 10 day HV had crossed below the 100 day HV and put them on a watch list. I've looked at this over the years and it's a pretty good way to find issues that are consolidating and have the potiential to move in the short term. -Derek

I came across the following chart on a blog (it was Teresa Lo's site). I've been trying to do this in Investor RT for a few weeks now and can only get it to a ratio chart with my primary frame of reference as a line chart. I really like how it appears that Tradestation can reference the benchmark as a zero line, but I can't seem to fins anyplace else that references the "rebase" on the chart. Is that merely what the author has named the function, and if so what is the function I would be able to research in Tradestation to learn more about this. Also, if anyone knows IRT and can point out how I would be able to accomplish this on that platform I would also be grateful. Thanks -Derek

I use Open eCry as one of my brokers and the pluses have outweighed the minuses for a long time. However they may be a victim of their own success. Saxon listed his experience over on the ET brokers review page and I have to say my experience with the people who pick up the phone has been similar. I think that OEC has a lot more potential but if they want to get a chance to fulfill it they need to achieve some level of consistency with customer service and support.

Walter, Very informative thread, thank you for sharing. I was wondering if you ever got any clarification on the use of the ADX in the original formula by Bemac? BTW I'm partial to mate -Derek

Several packages let you use volume based PoC and VA instead of the original time based method. I use market delta and plot both areas. Usually they are pretty close, but on big trend days they tend to be further apart. As all of these indicators also update in real-time during the day I would imagine it would be a good place to get the raw data needed to calculate VWAP and PVP/PoC, (I'm not a programmer so forgive me if this is off base).

Tin, Are you refering to the delta indicator or the volume historgram? I don't quite see you volume confirmation and I'd like to understand your reasoning. Sorry for the simple question.....

From a MP perspective when price trades into the low volume wouldn't we would want to trade as price is potientially looking to establish a new value area and potientially starting to trend ? I like your approach using VWAP however is seems to be most benefical in establishing a bias. I also think it would keep you out of trend days like yesterday as there was no substancial reversion to a mean, just a steady climb throughout the day. Would you mind going over how VWAP and PTP looked during yesterdays action (7/12)? Thanks for shaing this with us. -DT

Sorry, should have been clearer, US stocks. I like to look at key stocks to see if a gap is happening on below, in line with or above average volume. Soul uses a similar setup ( I believe it's based on John Carter's gap play)

Just wondering how some of you go about getting your pre-market volume numbers? I've been playing around with a few different ways to do this and have gotten realitivly inconsistant results (the numbers are wildly different depending on the data provider).

Walter, Thank you for this thought provoking thread. Could you clarify the actual settings you are using for the KC's?

I have a video of a presentation Williams and Krueger gave for the CBOT back in Sept. of '06 if anyone is interested. It's about 50 Meg so perhaps I can post it somewhere to make it available if there is any interest.

I am looking to expand outside my main markets (ES and YM) and get into some others. I've been looking at the electronic gold contract on the CBOT (ZG) and a few others (eurodollar and russell). One of the things that concerns me is the liquididty. Rather than taking the bottom up approach is there a top down way to list contracts by liquidity? The article listed below has the liquidity listed in realitive terms, but I'm not sure that relative listings are the complete picture when considering the trading implications. Any thoughts? Futures Liquidity - April 2007

Tin, It's a about a month later, any more insight on this approach?

I trade mostly the YM and some ES, however I've been looking at the ER2 and am starting to get interested. How does it compare with YM and ES with regards to liquidity and slippage? It certainly seems to have the volatility to present some potentially good opportunities

Ant, Is he connected with the Wyckoff course given by the Stock Market Institute? They have a course which has gotten some good reviews but is rather expensive. I thought Hank Pruden was somehow connected to them as well, but I could be mistaken. They say Tom Williams took the course early in his career, (at least that is what they claim over at T2W): Trade2Win Boards - Wyckoff

The Nature of Risk - Justin Mamis, this book reframed how I though about trading, much like how Slansky's books did related to Poker. Trading Day by Day- Chick Goslin, First part of this book is the essence of how a professional futures trader should look at the market. Enhancing Trader Performance- Brett Steenbarger, The real challenge with trading successfully over an extended period of time (consistently) is preparation and discipline. This book and the authors blog (traderfeed.blogspot.com) is the finest combination of resource one can find to explore this topic (and trading in general).