VolumeJedi

This chart would have been posted hours ago, but I was having some software issues. . No matter, I think there are still things to learn and take away from the chart. A: We know that the market does not like wide spread up bars on ultra high volume. But that does not mean one should get short as soon as such a bar appears. This bar is indeed wide spread and the volume is ultra high. Supply (weakness) enters as the next bar is down. However, the market does manage to move up from this point. B: At point B the market gives us another wide spread bar on very high volume. Could this bar be some sort of push thru supply move? Not sure, but if it is, it will be tested almost immediately. 3 bars later we start to get a clue. This bar is narrow closing up on volume less than the previous two bars: it is no demand. C: Now things are really coming into focus. The market gives us an up bar on higher volume closing near its lows. This is an up thrust. Note that the high of this bar is equal to the high of the bar at B forming a double top. Let's take the pulse by looking at the background: 1. We have seen a bounce off of yesterday's high. 2. We have seen a wide spread bar on ultra high volume closing off its highs with the next bar down. 3. We have seen a wide spread bar on very high volume closing off its highs with the next bar down. 4. We have seen an up thrust. The high of which is a double top with the high of the second wide spread bar. Also of note, these highs are lower than the high that bounced off of yesterday's high. Shorting on the up thrust is valid, but may be a bit aggressive for some. D: Price moves down from the weakness. At D we see an equal range bar closing up with volume less than the previous two bars. Another possible entry point, but we have just moved beyond the VAH from the previous day and there is something else we will get to next. E: This is the place to get short. We have a NR7 bar closing in the middle of its range with volume less than the previous two bars. It is no demand. Note that it closes at the VAH (resistance). Also note that this bar does not trade higher or even equal to the close of the original wide spread bar at point A. That close is our "trigger number" and we like seeing signs of strength or weakness in this area. If you enter on the close you are in. If you wait for the low to be broken, you have to wait two bars. F: Bar F is very interesting. It closes higher than the previous no demand bar and does not make a lower low. Thus it does not bring you into the market if you were shorting on the break of the low of the no demand bar. This bar makes a higher high. What is telling, besides the low volume, is the close of this bar is on the trigger line and in the middle of the spread. With a wider spread than the previous bar, it might not be correct to consider it no demand, but it is clearly at least no buying pressure. One can now look to short at the break of the low of this bar.

Soultrader; just a suggestion, when the number of pages gets to 200 maybe you should think about starting part III. P.S. It has been awhile since you posted your unique take on VSA and MP. What's up with that?

Therein lies the problem with cyclic type analysis. The other would be the "inversion phenomenon". I don't think this method has inversions though. What I was trying to convey in the post is the idea that one would not necessarily want to trade everyday of the cycle, but rather only those days that line up with key VSA type days/bars. In other words, you don't have to be a buyer every (B) day of the cycle. Only on the days that follow wide spread down bars on very high volume that close off the lows. Or narrow range down bars that close in the middle or high on volume less than the previous two bars. For those that want to use the playing field idea, they could add in the buy (B) days that are in the correct place in the channel. Of course, any other type of support/resistance areas would also apply (pivots, value areas, fib retracements, et all). I suspect that most here on TL would not like this approach as it does have you sitting out of the market on many days. One way around that would be to trade more markets. This would increase the probability that on any given day the trader has a market where both the cycle and VSA are in alignment.

I would say that personally I like the idea of eight (8) as it is a fib/music math number, but the concept of NR bars was presented to me as NR4 and NR7. My use of these bars is pretty minimal in truth. Basically, I just like to see no demand bars/no supply bars that are also NR4 or NR7 bars. It amplifies the fact that the Smart Money is not involved on the bar in question. Traditional interpretation does say that after such a bar, there should be an increase in volatility. This is your basic "reversion to the mean" idea. That is, the NR7 bar is a reduction in volatility and such reductions tend to be followed by an increase in the opposite direction. Again, I haven't studied the concept of NR bars all that much, but I know that the spread or range of a bar tells us important things from a VSA perspective. This is especially true when the narrow range has either volume less than the previous two or volume greater than the previous bar. In the latter , the greater the volume the more important it is as it will be a squat of some kind. The former is some kind of no demand/ no supply bar/test. The low volume signs we look for.

I don't know much about the Taylor Method, but it would be interesting to see where this goes. Without any real understanding of the Taylor Method and in all admitted hindsight, here are a few things I see in the chart. Once you understand the method, the real issue is of course how does one implement it. As this is a VSA thread, certainly any implementation would also have a basis in VSA. Take a look at the first double arrow. This is a wide spread down bar on ultra high volume that closes off its low. The close of the low on ultra high volume alerts us to the possibility of buying in this bar. Now if we knew this was a Short Sell (SS) day, then we would expect the next day to be a Buy (B) day. Looking at the chart we do see strength entering on this bar. But before the day starts, we would be predisposed to only take long signals (Tests, no supply bars) and ignore no demands and up thrusts. Skip ahead to the very narrow range bar closing up on volume less than the previous two bars. In fact, the volume (first red double arrow) is less than any volume bar that can be seen. Plus, this narrow bar is in fact a NR7 bar. Simply, the BBs are not interested in higher prices on this bar-it is no demand. So, we have no demand on a day that was a sell day (S) day, making the next day a SS day. Perfect. VSA alone would have us looking to enter if the low of the no demand bar was taken out. Intra day, we would simply start the day predisposed to only take short signals on our preferred timeframe. On the next double arrow, we have a down bar on a narrow spread with volume less than the previous two bars. This is no supply. There is strength in the background , and we the day was a SS day. Since we have a no supply indication on a SS day with strength in the background, we can look to only take longs the next day which should be a Buy day. The last double arrow points to a narrow range bar closing up with volume greater than the previous bar. Supply enters on this bar. This bar is a squat. While there is strength in the background, we can still look to sell the next day as the cycle fits the VSA sign. Thus we would only be looking for ways to get short on the next bar. Which according to the Taylor method will be a SS day. This is by no means the way to combine the two methods or the only way to combine them. It's just a quick look at some interesting intersections by someone that doesn't really know much about either . There may be something here, and I look forward to the more knowledgeable Taylor/VSA traders chiming in.

If you're not paying attention, you might think this is a repost of Eiger's chart......... Beautiful chart here. A: Ultra high volume on a very wide spread bar that is pushing thru supply. Markets do not like high volume on up bars. This would be one of the exceptions. If it is indeed bullish, we would expect to see an immediate test. B: Note the bar just prior to B. It has volume less than the previous two bars and closes up. But look at the range. It is not narrower than the prior bar. Thus it is not no demand but rather no buying pressure. If there is no buying pressure and an ultra high volume bar in the background, the BBs would want to check for supply. They do. B is a test. there is some room for upside movement here. C: Narrow range up bar on volume greater than the prior bar. This is a Squat. Some supply (weakness) enters here. D: Up bar closing in the middle of its range, more supply enters the market here. E: This is it. An up bar closing near its lows on increasing volume. This is an up thrust (or trap up move). We have seen supply enter the market so there is weakness in the background. F: Narrow range up bar closing in the lower portion of its range on volume less than the previous two bars. This is no demand. Note how price bumps up against yesterday's high, but as it was not respected on the upside it is not going to be respected now. Also note where the no demand is. It is within the range of our ultra high volume bar. This is our low volume sign with in the range of a high volume bar. The similarity of this chart to Eiger's is more than coincident. VSA patterns can be seen in all markets on all timeframes. If you are like me, and don't really care for Wyckoff per se, you can still use VSA and trade in harmony with the BBs.

It's nice to see JJ posting currency trades. I believe the more he looks into the currency markets, the more he will see how the professionals show themselves so clearly at times. Before we look at the trade, take a look at the right side of the chart. The market gives us a down bar closing in the middle with a narrow range and a lower low than the previous bar on increased volume. This is a squat (E). Three bars later the market gives us a narrow range bar (NR7) on volume less than the previous two bars closing down and in the middle of it range. This is a test (F). With the test at a place we would like to see it, it could be a nice place to add on to the trade. But the real take away here is how clear the bars are. Almost text book. As for the trade: A: A good rule of thumb is to start out looking for very high to ultra high volume. Second would be to pay attention to wide to very wide spread bars. When we have both, we definitely want to listen to what the market is telling us. The market gives us a very wide spread bar on ultra high volume that closes off its lows with the next bar up. Support (buying) most have entered on that bar. How do we know?: 1. If all that volume was selling, the close should be on the low. 2. The sum total of all that effort (volume) did not close below the developing Value Area Low (VAL). 3. The next bar confirms our suspicions as it closes higher. B: Up bar on volume less than the previous two bars. Sounds like no demand. But let's take a closer look. First and foremost, we have just seen strength in the background. Taking a closer look at the bar itself, what do we see?: 1. The range is not narrower than the previous bar. In fact, it is an out side bar-it has a higher high and a lower low. 2. The low of the bar is in the area of expected or likely support. We can dismiss this bar. C: Another up bar on volume less than the previous two bars. This one does have a narrower range and closes near its lows. This bar is an up thrust in the form of no demand. Again, there is a lot of strength behind us, so we can ignore this bar. It does tells us that on this particular bar, the BBs are not yet ready to take prices higher. One would suspect that is because they want to make sure there isn't any supply left in the market. Therefore we should be looking for a test or no supply sign just prior to the market taking off to the upside. D: Down bar on volume less than the previous two bars. Volume less than the previous 4 bars for that matter. Unfortunately, the range is not as narrow as we would like but there are two important clues here: 1. The low is HIGHER than the lows of A and B. If we are making higher lows, then we are in an uptrend. 2. The low doesn’t breach the VAL. This is no supply and clears the way for the BBs to take prices higher. Hitch a ride on their coattails.................................

Sounds like you were a member for awhile. I really don't like the cost. I think everything can be learned for free on a site like this. Its just that Seb Man is now longer able to post here. Apparently he traded the GBP live for the club members on Friday. Plus, the great ones here: JJthetrader, Eiger, Tawe Trader, don't post everyday. This is understandable as they are traders first and posters second. Yes if not for TG, many would not even know of the third way to trade the markets. Much of the renewed interest in Wyckoff is due to them, despite the Wyckoffians putting VSA and all its "jargon" down.

I reject the notion that there is no clarity in these VSA pages. Very simple principles and repeatable patterns litter these threads. Moreover, VSA is itself highly logical, whilst being counter intuitive to the way the masses have been taught to think. That counter intuitiveness doesn't lead to murkiness, it leads profits. The chart below is a 3 min Euro. It could be a 8 min mini Dow. It could be a 5 min Soybean chart. It does not matter. Whilst markets do have individual personalities, they are all still just lines on a chart. A: 90% of the time, markets do not like up bars on high volume. That is why VSA says weakness when it appears will appear on UP bars. This is one of the 10%. The market gives us an up bar that closes near its high on ultra high volume with a wide spread. The bar trades down to make a lower low before closing up and near its high. This is a Shake-out. Note the red dashed line. That is the developing Value Area Low. Therefore professional support is appearing in the area we would expect to see it. B: Wide spread down bar on very high volume. VSA teaches us that when strength appears it appears on DOWN bars. Here we have the wide spread bar on high volume, although less than the prior bar (shake-out) that closes off its lows. But the next bar is up. If all that volume was bearish, then the next bar should not be up. Again, we see support at the Value Area Low being put in. C: The market gives us a narrow range bar on volume less than the previous two bars that closes down and near its high. This is a Test. What makes this Test so powerful is both the fact that the close is lower (strength entering/showing itself on down bars) and that it is within the range of our ultra high volume shake-out bar. Also as noted, we are a few pips from the developing VAL. Signs of strength and weakness in areas where you would like to see them. D &E: Later in the move we have another wide spread down bar on ultra high volume. If the volume is bearish why is the next bar up? Clearly, there must have been some buying in that volume. As we look at E, we note that it falls then comes back up to close near its high. The yellow dashed line is the developing Point Of Control. Hence, we see professional support where would expect to see it. But like VSA patterns in any market, I am repeating myself.......... P.S. Is anybody here a member of the VSAclub site? I am thinking of joining. Hate the idea of spending money on something that can be learned for free. At least you don't have to deal with haters.

VSA works in any market on any timeframe with volume information. Tick volume is a proxy for actual volume. The Forex market uses tick volume. ----------------- Therefore, VSA works in Forex on any timeframe. QED I understand it is "false" volume in that it is not volume but tick volume. Tick volume represents activity. VSA is not concerned with actual amounts but with relative comparisons. Hence we look at one bar with respect to the bar prior or the one prior to that. There is a fact sheet on volume that can be read on the TG site. It is also available from the Esignal site as well. I submit that you are simply wrong here BlowFish. Now if you want to talk about reasons not to trade spot forex, then we can talk about bucket shops and brokers taking the other sides of trades. But the no volume myth has been debunked.

This is a Forex trade. VSA works in all markets. If the volume was false, it shouldn't work here. It seems to. You be the judge. A: The market gives us a wide spread up bar on high volume. This bar closes near the middle of its range. This tells us that there must be some selling on this bar. We know markets do not like high volume up bars. B: Up bar on a narrow range that closes in the middle with volume greater than the previous bar. Supply (weakness) enters. 1 & 2: at point 2, we have two highs and an intermediate low so we can now draw our trend channel. The trend is down. C: Very nice narrow up bar on low volume that finds resistance at the top of the channel. However, in this case the channel was not drawn until a few bars later. With that said, we see weakness in the background and now have a no demand. This could be a place to get short. D: One of the best places to short a market. We are in the upper portion of the channel and have weakness in the background. Price closes equal to the previous bar but the volume is very low. This is no demand. Notice how the market tumbles down after this bar. If you use profit targets, you would be looking for price to fall to the bottom of the channel as it does. Once we see the high volume and the close in the upper portion of the range of that bar, we know we have a shake out and should be looking to exit our short. The best exit comes as price trades back within the range of the shake out and forms a squat. This is another sign of strength . The market may not move up , but merely sideways at this point but given the time of day, it is time to take the money and run.

To whom it may concern: Tomorrow (Thursday December 4th 2008 Chicago Time) at 4.00pm CST TradeGuider is hosting a special 90 minute webinar covering all you need to know about trading FOREX using VSA, and we will be looking at several currency pairs that have some longer term set ups that have appeared. This is an event you do not want to miss, and is open to all, but places are limited to 200, so enter 30 minutes befor event starts to guarantee your place. Please keep this email and link safe and use it to enter the room, NO PASSWORD NEEDED, just be there early. http://www.omnovia.com/event/94451228369695

There seems to be a language problem. I have no idea what you are asking or saying. Either that, or you might have to dumb it down for me There are some things we know about the stopping volume/climatic action bar the minute it closes. 1. We know the close is down and the volume is ultra high. But if all that volume was selling volume, as implied by a down close then why is the close off the lows of the range? Some of that volume must represent buying. 2. We know the range of the bar. Again, if all that volume as downside action (supply entering), then the range should be larger than it is. The small range implies that there is buying into the selling which is keeping the spread (range) smaller than if all the volume was selling. We do need to wait for the next bar to be sure, but we do have some idea on the bar itself. That is fine with me. I do not need to pick tops and bottoms; I let them pick themselves.

NR7: Narrow Range 7 bar. It is a bar with the narrowest range of the last 7 bars (last six bars plus the most recent bar). There is also a NR4 bar, which would be the smallest range of the last 4 bars. These are another way to measure volatility in the market. Markets tend to revert to higher periods of volatility after periods of lower volatility. These type of bars show little professional activity especially when the volume is low. There is a book on short term trading that popularized the concepts. So while NR7 or NR4 aren't VSA concepts per se, a narrow range bar on volume less than the previous two bars would be either a no demand or no supply. The smaller the range, the less professional activity we would assign to the bar. Hence NR7 and NR4 dove-tail nicely with no demand and no supply signs. No buying pressure is defined in MTM, as a wide range bar closing up and on the high with volume less than the previous two bars. Whereas no demand would be a narrow range bar closing up and in the middle or low with volume less than the previous two bars. A more broad definition of no buying pressure would be any up bar that has volume less than the previous two bars. If the next bar is down and the range is narrow, then you have no demand. Therefore, all no demands are no buying pressure, but not all no buying pressure bars are no demand.

According to the Small Business Administration (SBA), 90-95% of all new small businesses fail within the first three years. Trading is a business and as such it only makes sense that it would have similar statistics. In fact, because of the psychological aspects of trading, it makes sense the number would skew higher.

Overall, I think the picture is still weak. Strength entered the market four bars back on a down close with ultra high volume that closed off its lows with the next bar up. When strength appears, it appears on down bars. This bar was stopping volume/climatic action. The close of this bar is now our trigger number. For more information on that, watch the trade guider videos. The next bar is up but the range is narrow and the volume is lower. Something is keeping the range narrow-overhead supply. The close is also in the middle of the range. The next bar is again an up bar with a narrow range, but this time the volume is even lower. We now have volume less than the prior two bars with a narrow range bar closing up and closing in the middle of its range. This is no demand. This bar happens to also be a NR7 bar so we can conclude that the BBs are not active on this bar. However, the bar does not complete, so we are looking at no buying pressure not no demand. The last bar has an increasing range on volume that is still decreasing. This bar still remains a sign of no buying pressure. This bar has to be taken with a grain of salt as it is a holiday shorted trading day bar. Barring the government's coming in and changing the rules, It looks like this market is poised to fall down and either give a test or push thru the close of the climatic action bar. Most likely, it will begin to build a cause and then test before moving higher. P.S. I don't use moving averages, but the price is still below the one on the chart. A no demand that trades up to that average would be pretty powerful as well.

This is not the same chart as I previously posted but the patterns do seem to repeat. A Tale of two "Tests": In the background we have an up trend. Then we get an up bar on ultra high volume closing off its lows. Supply enters. The volume on this bar far exceeded any volume for many periods. Probably because of the holiday. The next bar is up, but the range narrows and the volume drops off. Some supply must have entered on the prior bar. Two bars later there is a narrow spread up bar with volume less than the prior two bars. No demand. Would anybody want to short here? It is kind of a counter trend trade at this point. Also the market has not yet built a cause for falling prices. Test 1 3 bars after the no demand we see the first test. The range is narrow. The close is equal and near the high of the range. But the volume is high. Tom says markets can rise on high volume tests, but the rise should be muted due to the excess supply underneath. That is the case here. We move up and get an up thrust. This is like a trap up move. The herd thinks the prior tend is re-asserting itself and they look to jump in long. The market pushes a bit higher. Test 2 Narrow range bar closing near the highs on volume less than the prior two bars. Looks good for a test. Of course the close could be on the high, but no matter. What happens next is what matters more. Neither of the next two bars closes above the close of this test bar. So the test doesn't complete. And on the very next bar, the third one, a wider spread down bar closing lower than the low of the test bar. As it happens to be, this bar is also a dark WRB. We now have our cause: get short if not already.

Winnie, there is a large gap in your question. Remember VSA looks at three (3) things: * Volume * Spread (Range) * Close Your question can not be answered without any mention of where the close is on that type of bar. Also when you say "low volume" are you talking less than the previous two bars low, low based on the average? If volume is less than the previous two bars, then it would be some type of No buying pressure type of bar. But if the close is on the low, than it would be more of an up thrust in the form of no demand. Always remember that VSA is asking "what did the market do on that volume?" And by that VSA means, where did the market close within its range as well as in relation to the previous bar.

Many would consider the ES as the "gold standard". The market the Big Boys trade. If you can make there, you can make it anywhere. LOL The pro's pro, however, is much more likely to trade whatever is moving at the time. Picture a hobo that wants to go west. He can jump on a train going east, wait for it to slow down, stop, reverse and then pick up speed going west. This is absurd. Why not simply jump on a train already moving west in the first place? With that said, specialization works better for the small retail trader as markets have individual personalities and quirks. There maybe too much information otherwise. As for the moral of our hobo fable, the idea can be applied to movement within a market as well as amongst markets.

I started with futures with an eye towards the mini S&P or YM. Mainly because I believed at the time that the "real pros" traded index futures and or interest rate futures (10 year bond). My first actual trade ended up being in currency futures. I was persuaded to believe that the only real edge an off the floor trader has is trend and currencies are some of the best trending markets out there. While I am not trying to convince you of anything, here are some points that go to the OP: CURRENCIES: 1. High degree of trend (the trend truly is your friend) 2. Respond well to "technical analysis". TA is a broad category to be sure, but it is nice that currencies can be traded so well from a purely technical side. 3. Spot Forex offers near 24x7 trading. In truth, the best hours to trade tend to be the London Open and New York Open. New York hours coincide with the S&P futures (RTH) and cash markets and NYSE. 4. Liquidity is high in both spot and futures. Volume in futures may be light to some, but I seriously doubt that anybody here can trade at the size that would make that a problem. 5. Numerous free data and software options. One can spend nothing or one can spend thousands; it's nice to have such a wide spectrum to choose from. Before some one says, it is possible to get futures data and software free from certain brokers. 6. I have a degree(s) in both Economics and International Politics. Not necessarily needed to trade (see 2), but I can tell my parents that the time in school wasn't a complete waste. LOL Anyway, these are many of the reasons I picked the Forex Market. Like I said, not trying to convince anybody of anything. P.S. #7. Related to 2, but deserves mention of its own. The BBs leave such visible tracks in the forex market (VSA).

Thank you. A few pages back, JJthetrader came up with the term completion bar. Basically, when you have a test, it is not a test until/unless one of the next two bars closes higher than the close of the test. With a no demand bar, it is not confirmed as no demand unless the next bar is down (In some cases, the next bar can be equal and the next bar down). Rather than thinking in terms of confirmation, one can think in terms of completion. That is, a no demand signal is really a two bar signal. The first up close on a narrow range with volume less than the previous two bars and the next bar closing down. This is how TG does it. It is important to note that one can trade prior to the close of the next bar, as JJ does, or one can wait for the completion bar and then enter. Most of the time the market will not "get away" from you if you wait, but that is really a personal risk tolerance issue and not a VSA issue. Tom does not wait for confirmation/completion but he is the father of VSA. Tom would enter on the close of a no demand. Gavin would enter once price trades below the low of the no demand. The software, however, will only place a sign above the no demand once the next bar completes and is down.

Interesting chart here. It all starts with a climatic action bar. We see an up bar on very high volume closing off its highs with the next bar down. Supply entered. Lest we forget, one key principle of VSA states: when weakness appears it appears on up bars. Many traders see this high volume up bar and think price is off to the moon. VSAers, however, know that the market does not like up bars on high volume because there could be hidden selling within the bar. The next bar has even higher volume as the range narrows and the close is both down and in the lower portion of its range. This is an Up Thrust. It is also a squat. The narrow range as volume increases is key. As Tom says in MTM, one can tell the intent of the market makers by looking at the spread (range) of a bar. If all the volume was bullish, then the close would not be down, nor would it be in the lower portion of the bar. The market makers are giving the herd a "good price" as the spread is kept narrow. But that is because they can see all the sell orders which make them bearish. This sets up the background. Next we see a test as price has risen a bit from a No Selling pressure bar. We don't close on the high, but we close near the high. We also close even to the previous bar and not down. Simply, while it is a test, we already know it is not an ideal test. Price does move up and give us our completion bar. However, we soon see a close below the close of the test bar. This low close also happens to be a dark WRB. This signals that the market is still weak. We are getting no results from a test. Two bars later, another up thrust. With all the weakness in the background, we have entry #1. The no demand bar that appears 7 bars later is another entry point. The no supply bar is ignored as we know the market is weak. Last quote on chart is 1.2892. current quote is 1.2858.

If you missed it, the market gave you another chance a few bars later. We see another up bar on volume less than the previous two bars on a narrow spread. In fact, it is a NR4 bar. A no demand bar after an upthrust, which hit the supply line, is one of Tom's favorite entry signals.

I love my iPhone. Just wish they would enable a flash player so I could watch TL videos from my phone. Soul, plans here in the U.S. are unlimited data. As long as that remains true, the iphone can't be beat.