JohnE

That part that bothers me most is that now here at TL you can be a vendor and have threads dedicated to promoting your software etc but you don't need to be held accountable for the quality or effectiveness of the product. It makes it seem that TL endorses the products. Years ago I don't remember TL being like this. So there is a bigger issue as to WHY TL is letting vendors promote so easily. Lets bring back the old days and standards. Is it any wonder that the threads have no participation ? The moderators need to get it together. Just some advice. Take or leave it . John

the vendors won't post proof no matter what we do. If they could then they would as it would bring in more customers to them. There is no incentive for us regular people to post statements as we have nothing to gain. It doesn't bring us additional cash and our egos are not that fragile as we need to prove anything to you. But lets do this- - You go deposit 50 k in a bank account and jump through all the hoops to set things up with a lawyer and I'll deposit 50 k too. Then I'll provide 3 years of my most current statements and once he /she makes all the contacts to verify my positive statements then I get to keep your money. That would be worth it to me. If my statements suck then you get the 50 K. Sounds fair. Let me know when you have that done - go Walk the Walk Mr. Big Talk and contact me via Private message with the contact information. Now lets not get off topic anymore from here. I'm not planning to respond to anyone who wants to muddle this up some more and try to divert the attention from the vendors. I'll let you know when Patcuca comes through but I don't need more of you vendors jumping on the bandwagon to try and protect each other.

one can only assume that the vendors who visit this forum and promote orderflow cannot trade. Nobody stepped up to the plate. How sad and predictable.

You already know what will be good for me. Lets stop trying to redirect this. Acting dense is no excuse for poor follow-through. You have no need to ask me any questions. It's obvious what you are trying to do and what you are unable to do - which is give me 3 months of statements. You gave me my answer and I thank you. You can get mad at the internet all you want but I think your true answers lie within yourself. Accept who you are and move on or work on changing to be better. If you can meet the challenge than just do it and stop all your talking . Make me out to be the fool and prove me wrong.There's no need for any more rhetoric between us.

Here we go with the stalling tactics. Just because you show us trading statements it doesn't mean we know how much you earn. We won't be able to see how much you make selling software will we ? So we have no way of knowing what you earn. We are only concerned with your trades for 3 months. A critical sign of a vendor who is avoiding the issues is one that tries to turn the questions/request back on the poster. I'm not going to let you make this about me. I think the internet has the answer from you and it's a "no". You can't meet the challenge and prove that you are profitable with your software for three months. You are doing exactly what I thought you would do as mentioned in my last post. Please only respond when you are ready to post some statements otherwise I am wasting my time with you. You can design software, I'm sure you can figure out a way to post something meaningful from your statements if you had them to show.

I take challenges to vendors with a grain of salt because they never usually get done. The vendor stalls or comes up with excuses and just prolongs things in order to keep up potential interest in the product in question. They never accept the challenge and things drag on for weeks or even months. Hmm...sure seems like you may be doing this. A simple yes or know couldn't do ? Did we really need the infomercial about December 19th ? Why don't you start a new thread and either post the last 3 months statements or start with the next month and begin there ? Then do that for two more months. I think the readers can judge by the statements what they deem as "profitable" . Don't try to make it more complicated. Either rise up to the challenge or just say "no". Don't try to drag it on. That's an old vendor trick to avoid the challenge. Be better than that!

Jigsaw, you are posting results to show that you can profitably trade your indicators/software over time. If you can't trade them then how are we supposed to ? The prize you get is that you show people it can be done and that drives more people to buy your product. Lets not get caught up in the words I have chosen. We all know that I want proof that the two of you can trade using the products you want the public to buy. Perhaps this is a better way to phrase it . Are you willing to trade for 3 months and post your results here on the forum in order to demonstrate YOUR ability to trade with your products ? A simple yes or no will do. I'm was hoping one of you will come through and since Predicator can't do it then perhaps you can.

Curtis, If the software is so useful as your quote below implies then I don't think it asking too much to have you prove it's creator can actually use it to make money. If the creator can't find a way to make money than how are we suppose to make money with it ? I have your answer and you are telling me that you donot accept the challenge and cannot prove to me that you can make money with your software over a period of time. Lets end this here for you and I will wait to see if Jigsaw replies. I will notify Jigsaw through private message here and from his website so he knows of my requests and can't claim ignorance. I really don't want to drag this on and I would appreciate it if you don't reply to me anymore.

Curtis, It sounds like you aren't willing to step up to the challenge of demonstrating that YOU can be profitable actually trading your own software for 1-3 months. Is this a true reading on your reply ? I'm not really interested in any other responses at this time as it all just sounds like promotion and I don't want to prolong that here. Posting your read on the market here as you have been doing is just too difficult to actually follow and I will assume it is rather meaningless based on my own view and the lack of interest here on the forum. So lets get you to post an actual track record along with Jigsaw so we can monitor some actual results over a few months. I am not looking for excuses like I said in my post yesterday nor do I want big responses that divert from my request. You can either prove that you can trade your own product or you can't. What is your answer ? John

I use to get a lot out of these threads so I am disappointed currently. Let me make a suggestion. Lets have Jigsaw and Predictor start an emini trading contest either sim or real for 1- 3 months so they can establish a track record to further promote their software. Personally I don't like to see promotion on these forums but I guess if it has to happen then lets see it happen in a separate thread. As far as I know Predictor has at least two websites and Dinoysustoast has at least one so we know they aren't making all their income just from trading. I'm not looking to debate the pros and cons of a trading contest. We don't need to hear: My lawyer won't let me do it or I don't have time or any other excuse why it can't be done. It doesn't need to be complicated. We just want to see some consistent results and that you can practice what you both preach. I realize that keeping ones name out on forums with either good or bad feedback eventually helps promote websites but please don't drag this on any longer. It is too difficult for me to focus on time stamps of posts in order to get a feel of when or where order flow imbalances are happening. Posting that kind of stuff is a waste of time and doesn't give anyone a true feel of what can be done by interpreting order flow. Hopefully we can move on from here and see some real results. John

I like the suggestion of explaining the trades..no offense but I just don't think the web needs more people posting without giving the reasons for trades....so thanks to those who are taking the extra effort...great thread..been lurking here a long time !!

great Ronin but I want to learn ,otherwise I'm wasting my eyes could you give us some reasons for the blanket buy of that close today ? thank you and nice trade !

I'm not sure if this is appropriate but some of these free webinars can be helpful. I have no affiliation with this vendor and the moderators will delete this post if needed . If you go to this web page Stock Market Trading Training Seminars | Learn2StockTrade.co.uk and go to the " Developing a Trading Methodology using Market Profile and Market Delta Footprints" webinar you will see some explanations of the setups/signals that bakrob99 has been kind enough to post for us. Specifically if you scroll in and begin about 48 minutes into the webinar. These folks post lots of good ideas but like many webinars they have there share of fluff. I think these are some of the better ones out there and I would encourage those interested to check some of the other ones out too. I have never taken their training and have no idea if they actually trade. Hope it is useful.

Thank you ! That is a nice visual and if you ever get a chance to post more charts I'd certainly appreciate it. I know it's hard to do that and trade but even after the fact can be very instructive. What charting program is that ? If you don't mind. John

Bakrob, could you give us a brief explanation of your chart when you get time ? perhaps you have said more in prior posts so I apologize for having you repeat the answer. Are we looking at the net delta per tick on your bar chart ? I like that if we are John

that certainly would be refreshing !

wow..nobody has feedback...? Hmm...things have really dried up on the forums....Haven't found anything elsewhere either....

This guy is starting a market delta room and was wondering if anyone has any opinions on his work ? I know at one time he ran Anttrading but that seems to be defunct. Is this a sign to stay away from him ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think this question has ever really been answered specifically but I apologize if it was. I may be a bit behind in some responses but don't see this one addressed well. No offense to Jpearl as this threads really rocks. For example: Jerry has mentioned to use a 5 day period but what do we do when Monday morning comes around or we start any new day ? Do we drop off the oldest day as the new day begins ? This would then have only 4 completed days and then the start of the current day...so that isn't a complete 5 day period until we finish that days worth of trading. Dropping data might also affect where VWAP now is or the PVP ! So that would mess up the concept of the skew. We can apply the same concept to a 10 day or twenty day period. Really any period of time. Dropping data may change the skew, vwap and PVP. If all of this has been addressed then please tell me where so I don't waste the forums time. We can't say that it doesn't matter when we start or stop the time frame unless we are in agreement that the concept of skew doesn't matter. Hopefully someone can shed some light here or point me in the right direction so I can do further research. Thanks

Lets keep it simple...if you order the book and don't like it then just return it to Amazon....so it costs ya 6 bucks or so to send it back.....and obviously if you have time to post on forums and attend expo's etc then you can afford the time to repackage it back up and get to the post office to send it back. We traders work hard for our money and don't need to keep garbage on our bookshelves. This would apply to anything whether it's an appliance you buy that just plain sucks or a book that doesn't meet YOUR expectations. Just return it ! You deserve to be satisfied. I'm not a big fan of vendors in general but this seems to be a bit out of hand. Stop all the moaning and get on with life. The more you fuss about it then the more it keeps the thread active......I think E=MC2 has tried to be open about...yes , he's selling books......like many folks out there....If the mods have a problem with his approach here then let them deal with it offline or in private emails.... Hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers...Happy Thanksgiving...Gobble , Gobble!!!

moderators please delete

Let me also add that I'm surprised nobody has commented on that awesome chart you did for us. Very logical and practical. Thank you!

Glad you are back in action and thanks for answering my questions. Your symetric plan and the gap fill makes sense but what specifically would you need to see in order to negate this? Trade back again above 31 on Sunday/monday ? Would you sell the breakdown of 17? The specific question is what would you need to see in your profile work to actually enter on the short side or what would determine that the gap isn't going to fill to round out that distribution? I understand that MP provides the frame work but how do us regular folks use it in this particular example. Many I think will be trying to trade for that gap fill below without any knowledge of MP or symetirc distributions.So how does MP specifically help us here ? I'm not trying to be a wise guy but there are many MP practioners who can't and won't give any clear entry/exit.They drop the ball and leave the end user to fiqure out those two tuff questions ( entry and exit), or they come back to forums after the move takes place . I've always appreciated your honesty Alleyb.