HAKUNA

Am aware that additional markets incur additional costs. just going by what I see on their website.

That is the exchange fee for the first instrument, then it is $29.99 for every other, that would be expensive. as I say I have to call them up to clarify.

Now there is an explanation and a half:) Great stuff Eiger. plus a marvellous attitude, courtesy, respect and politeness., treating others like mature adults and not kids. Wish some would take lessons.

From their website, it seems they are more expensive than esignal, will have to call them up.

who you kidding blowfish:) You have obviously seen value in this methodology unfolding via the recent posts , scenarios which have been put forward prior to the day in question being played out in front of everyone to see on that day. I can only hope you are not going to pull db's tactics in here. Looks like he still hasn't got the message, now he is at loggerheads with Eiger. Personally I did not question his knowledge on Wyckoff and his contribution. Obviously a thick skinned individual, battle hardened one would say - clear evidence of previous prolonged experience in controversy not only on this website, but perhaps also on others. Totally unnecessary. You can observe the systematic progress made on this single thread. He has managed to establish a whole forum and countless threads with wyckoff concepts instead of explaining the principles on a daily basis, however that would involve getting into some realtime nitty-gritty.

Scenario 4 (selling at resistance) is being played out very nicely on European bourses. Even a long was profitable though not stricly keeping with Taylor but tape reading dictated so early on.

mcfotos, Perhaps you jumped in too early IMO, or entry could have been made via a buy stop order above that no supply bar as you call it. At that point it just means that sellers are not meeting any resistance ie. support from buyers and are able to push prices down with ease. I would keep my mind free of big boys and small boys and just focus on supply and demand. It is not important at all to know who is buying and why. movement of price is what matters. In this respect knowledge of both VSA and Wyckoff is desirable. However far better entry depending on your risk tolerance and albeit not right at the bottom where everybody prefers to enter, would be to wait for a slight rally after a high vol down bar and then a test via down bar on a narrow range with low vol. In other words allow a cause to be built for a rally. A buy stop order above that would be the place where I would enter. That is what I do intraday. no reason why same principles will not operate on day charts or weekly charts. It may work or not but the odds are in your favor that way. You can ofcource wait for prices to rise above the moving average or above previous swing high and then a test on low supply. That would be more conservative.

Great analysis WHY? as usual, the market indeed gapped up to 860 on the globex and gradually declined with a rapid fall 7a.m EST Guess they took the cue from the European bourses where the prices have violated the Buy Day Low. Find each day fascinating now to observe how the rules set by Taylor way back in 1950 stand upto the modern era of electronic trading. But as you and richbois have mentioned it does require considerable effort to decipher these from Taylor's work. I believe from what I have read, that he was fully conversant with Wyckoff's work. Infact many of the setups he describes are reflected in Vadym Graifer's book as well..which in many ways is based on Wyckoff.

I am not promoting Kruger, when I first got into VSA via their bootcamp CD, he was the one who was able to explain the concepts better than anybody at TG. Infact he was their main tutor with Tom William, together they wrote Master the Markets for Tradeguider customers. G.H had the control and he wanted that. So if anybody desires to learn something about price/vol, at least he or she won't be pushed into buying expensive software , seminars etc. He was preparing that foundation course whilst he was at TG. and now has a couple of DVD on wyckoff for $199, not a big sum to check out, is it. and then come to their conclusion, far better than getting involved with TG crowd, don't you think. However if somebody is determined to go to TG, it is their business, I am just expressing an opinion, take it or leave it, there is no attempt to force it down somebody's throat. Also Have talked to both Tom and Todd and observed Todd with one of his trader friend trade in realtime. As I have mentioned I came away with the concepts I needed to understand, time to move on to refine tactics with any additional tools I may discover. If you take the trouble and put in effort to Taylor, you will get to the point when you will realise what strategies you would apply for a particular day ie. what to look for , at what price level, during which time of the trading day, then watch the price action to observe how to apply those tactics to advantage of the main trend of the day according to taylors rules as explained by monad and WHY? What you state is valid, however if you think about it, it could apply to anybody not only in the vendor world but also on any website , including this one, do you know with certainty if anybody is trading in realtime in here, unless you stand over their shoulder in their trading room:) BTW same could also go for Tom Williams, you just have his word he was a syndicate trader;) and what about Manby, have you set with him or for that matter those who promote Wyckoff in here. At the end of the day, you have to have some faith and follow your instincts. There are no certainties in any business.

You are right, in the past have set through many seminars , even Tom Williams used to say "it is not our business to tell you how to trade, your skill as a trader has to take over" it is only recently once people started complaining that manby and gavin have pointed out here and there where to enter etc. but again they pull up hindsight charts to point out No demand/No supply etc Worse part is the constant talk about the "people in the know" i.e professionals. same was on another thread in here "Ideas for struggling traders", when I posted some probing questions, the response was very similar to one encountred recently ie. do not look for holy grail or confirmation from others, be prepared to do hard work, or go and read some book or go to other threads:) BTW you will also notice in here as well statements such as "what I do or not do or how I do it, is irrelevant"

You are sure to find less hype than at Tradeguider as the man has many years of realtime trading experience, moreover even when he was with TG always acknowledged the original source of VSA ie. Wyckoff.

Monad, From your posts in which you have enumerated the various scenarios for each day, you are obviously ahead of me in your understanding of Taylor's method. Elaboration via examples provided by WHY? for the buy day was brilliant, am looking forward to those for the SELL day and SS day. With a long weekend ahead(Monday being Martin Luther King Holiday) he may find time to address that. Meantime am rather pleased to see the market pan out on Friday according to Taylor's strategy for Buy Days. Monday 19th - the Globex should be in operation, hence would be a SELL day.

Thanks for that clarification, I am savvy enough to realise when I am being taken for a ride. Am sure to find something of value in the archives but am not going to enroll into any courses. Had VSA Bootcamp CD and Course DVD, sold them now, not because it was all rubbish. The concepts therein are invaluable which have been reinforced by Wyckoff materials available here, which I have greatly appreciated in my posts before. However there are some aspects that I like to get clarified now and then, simple as that. I am not chasing any off-the-shelf signals, fully understand the need for hard work, patience and persistence in any business.

That would be consisent with your discovery of the Positive 3 Day Rally, Great short setup today and the bounce I expected during lunch from the support level around 830 put in late yesterday on ES. which incidentally is also a 62%fib level of low of yesterday to high of today.

Well as per Taylor, on a buy day, the gap up provided a short, almost 10pt move Presently looks as if a low will be put in during lunch, lets see how it pans out.

Eiger, the above post does not reflect to something you said, it has been edited and the real context left out, but not by me:)

WHY? I have the e-book, and the pages you refer to do not match, would appreciate if you point out the chapter. Anyway from what I have learnt, 13th (Buy Day) followed 2 days of B.V ie. 9th a Sell day and 12th a SS day. Hence the market is weak. There was opportunity to short early and then late afternoon, to go long. However the price behavior suggested that the rally is not going to last long. As I am strictly intraday, there was no choice but to exit with whatever profit the market gave. If the long had been held overnight well....................time to bang the head against the table/ the computer or kick the dog:) as it is against the rules laid out by taylor. As for yesterday 15th a SS day, yes it was failure to penetrate, early opportunity to short on early rallies which fizzled out at the top, double bottoms put in before lunch and during lunch, ideal longs, once again would not hold it overnight, price action dictated exit around 3p.m EST when the bonds closed.

why not give it a shot Blowfish, yes it is not an easy read, effort and persistence required as Monad says. surpised at Db's remarks on "Whatever works", am sure read somewhere on his forum "Nothing works by itself , you have to make it work". Just because it does not fit his style of trading does not mean it has no value to another trader. Read the book, then put your questions to richbois and WHY? for clarification, the way the response has been from these guys so far, you will begin to see merit in this method. From what I have learnt, you have to completely ignore Linda Raschke and G. Angell's version.

I think Db, by this time everybody and his brother is aware of your strong views on VSA, I personally am not too enamoured with TG marketing etc, but it is time to chill out somewhat. I will try to keep as civil as possible 1. I have posed few questions before and they have been directed to you, and same happened. 2. To you the post appears as if the questions are from a novice, how do you come to that conclusion. 3. Where in the post 155 do you read that I am attempting to reconcile VSA and Wyckoff, VSA is not even mentioned there. 4. Which part leads you to say that I am looking for predicting the price or which way a hinge is going to break out. Think you are reading far more into some very simple straightforward questions than is necessary. 5. I have read somewhere on the wyckoff forum regarding agreement etc, don't really want to pull up the exact posts and start a debate on that. thanks for whatever explanation you have given

again Joel was promoted by Manby on the VSA thread, have met some of the guys tutored by him, total rubbish, turned out to be a charlatan, once he gets your money, treats you like s...... and ridicules questions put to him during the classes.

Head2k, I am not a novice, you are still in learning process and paper trading. wish you would stop jumping in everytime I pose a question. I understand both VSA and Wyckoff, and yes also have Dalton's book on auction theory etc, i.e have been around the block am just trying to get some clarification from Db. Have just had just about enough of people telling me to read a book, go this thread or the other, define what I mean by this or that. Just looking for simple straight forward answer to straight forward question. If one part is correct say yes, if the other is not correct, point out that statement which you or anybody thinks is not correct and most importantly Why do you think it is not correct. certainly not looking for broad, general sweeping statements which sound profound upfront but is basically full of hot air.

Db, Have questions regarding congestions, bar ranges and agreement/disagreement amongst traders: 1. Hinge: in the beginning there are wide range bars with high vol, the bars then get smaller and vol dwindles. how does this translate into agreement or disagreement. 2. Prices are falling sharply then hit a support level, prices get into congestion once again with wide range bars both up and down on high vol. , a range builds and the bars gradually get smaller in range and vol. decreases, once again how do we read where there is agreement and disagreemnt. 3. Then when prices rise on wide range bars with vol, can I take it there is more agreement amongst traders.

I had Todd's Bootcamp CD with Tom Williams, going back 2003, early days of TG, that time Todd's take on price/vol relationship was very much in context i.e background strength or weakness, rather than bar by bar what Manby is expert at. Plus what comes across with him is his honesty, real desire to teach what he knows and moreover he is a real trader.

Here is a post byy MRW from another thread which is also pertinent here: I got a feel for just how much TradeGuider changed and moved away from Tom's work when I read Tom's Undeclared Secrets book. While that uses VSA software to illustrate concepts, it does not act as though the software itself is what's necessary for understanding the market. The Master the Markets book has removed a great deal of discussion from the original work, does not use multiple timeframe illustrations, and is promoting the software throughout. TradeGuider has now gone on to use pivots, and all sorts of things Tom never spoke of in, I believe, an effort to make it more popular with a public that loves indicators, Fib numbers, pivots, etc. Now they have a trading room that is $99 a month where Gavin will spoon-feed traders set-ups, while harping on "mainipulation," as if the only way to beat this supposed manipulation is to use TradeGuider. Last year's oil market action was used over and over to try and scare people with examples and fears of manipulation. I was a futures floor trader sometime back, and from my experience, manipluation is almost never the case. All that needs to happen for a giant rise is no offers. Would yuo have sold oil when it was screaming up last Spring? Conversely, would yuo have tried to buy it as it's falling several dollars a day on the way down? A huge imbalance in bids and offers (or supply and demand if yuo will) are all that's necessary. I'll spare yuo the many, many stories from the floor of this taking place. I had several terse conversations in e-mails with Gavin over this whole "manipulation" scare tactic, the deviation from Tom's original ideas, etc, and finally told him to...well, to take me off their mailing list and not contact me again. I obtained a copy of the Boot Camp DVD quite some time back, and in viewing that again yesterday, got to wondering what had happened to Todd. Googled him in and saw the whole court case, and then found the blogspot.

Why not just get away from all this "big boys" stuff, what matters to a retail trader like most on this website or forum or thread is whether there is Buying pressure or Selling pressure. Best to stick to the price action and not worry about who is doing what to whom:) Moreover as I have learnt from other posts, it is not a question of whether this method or an indicator works or not, the trader has to make it work. Know many traders who are very successful with using RSI, MaCD, Stoch divergence etc which as most realise has 50/50 odds in the long run. (please no lecture on probability laws:) Supply and Demand is intrinsic to the market, that is what Wyckoff pointed out, hence VSA which is derived from wyckoff has some merits, simple as that. As for other personalities connected with VSA, Tom being father or mother of VSA is totally irrelevant, he studied Wyckoff SMI course , and then attempted to convey what he learnt in simple terms via his "Undeclared Secrets........ By the same token any derivative, be it price based or mechanical (trendlines etc) IM0 will flag up support and resistance levels which as incidental if I understand Db correctly. BTW have also verified this with my own observations for myself.