EsotericRule

Damn, I liked that reply too. Posted it and poof!...off into the ether never to be seen again. TA is, in large part, an amalgam of unproven (and unprovable) tools that help you justify a move you already made or a hope that you are currently fostering. TA is, in large part, only doublethink. Question why your favorite indicator fails time and again, or signals too late for good profit. Question why the markets now operate as a Tote Board (DOM), with the punters never getting to see the whole book. Question how you are being dutched. Question all assumptions you bring to the table BEFORE you have ever taken a trade and in areas you believe or assume to be not the least bit associated with the markets. Question why you believe a log of the past has any impact on the present and future. To what views of reality have you been conditioned? When you have questioned enough, and if you've asked the right questions, you'll be consistently profitable. Until that point, you have just been lucky. And just so you know, yes...I do use a limited number of technical analysis tools...those that illustrate or help reduce the noise that masks natural law.

Given your reply I wished to clarify my position, thats what the 'No' was about. I don't hold that technical indicators are all that valid, unless one chooses a proper inception point and can adjust an indicator to it. Not many know how to properly identify 'beginnings'.

No. While all common technical indicators are akin to driving using the rearview mirror, on proper settings they do minimize noise. Anyone looking for more than that sadly does not understand the concept of past, present and future :doh: You can do a lot more with simple math than you can do with some very complicated (and largely unproven) 'technical indicators'.

Sorry for that, I see what you mean. I meant from the standpoint of using charting and data that they provide or have access to, and where they are able to trade against you. The sole benefit of using TOS as a broker prior to their being purchased by a bank, was that they had no trading arm. One notes how long that lasted.

I'm quite well aware of the 'two way mirror' that is both the internet and windows...not to mention Java aps. Think of all the money to be made from snooping on individuals settings on charts (especially if that individual is effective in the markets). I found in doing a trace of the hops to TOS that one went to a group of psych. wonks closely affiliated to Euro bank establishments...and its very likely that they are employed as sockpuppets on their 'free chats' on the platform. Another time I was discussing a tech issue and another tech mistakenly enterred the chat. His 'handle'? Solomon Bros Tech. Where there are large pools of money, there are always thieves....and most of them tie back to Rome.

b4gt...if you are not on a trading floor, scrounging for 1/4s of a point, then you are a speculator. New speculators using a yearly chart, rely on daily, 2 day and weekly readings. When using a daily chart, new speculators use 10min, 30min and hourly charts. Those are basics for a new speculator. Using common indicators on common settings will result in common (and less than common) results. Use bollinger bands set to .8 deviation to show you when an issue is trending and where. You can use this as a simple entry, protective stop, and end of run setup. Use (and get creative) with the so-called 'fibonacci' extensions and retracements. 95% of traders use them incorrectly, thus my admonition to get creative. What was the reason to buy/sell? Was the price action stronger/weaker than that of the index and group in which it trades? Was there a rare event? Was the issue making new weekly highs or lows? Historic highs or lows? IOW...did you have a plan before you even got into the trade? As you are new to speculation, remember - the issue is not about picking tops and bottoms...its about retaining profit. Profit may not always be right, but its never wrong. PS - it is not a crime to be under capitalized. I started out being undercapitalized and playing around with penny stocks. I survived by taking profits when they occured and ran 2k to 50k in a year with two good picks, 7 so-so picks and 15 duds. Don't marry any position, date it for awhile and move on. Nothing keeps you from coming back to an old flame if you leave on good terms. PPS - study a bunch of 1 year charts, set to the daily time frame, and without any indicators. See if you can find similarities in any of the patterns.

TOS, at least for futures. Their ES data is skewed, often shows incorrect closes, and long data gaps where none should be. As is par for the course, being bought out by a Canadian Bank is the deathknell of any decent platform.

I'll put in my two cents...there is no 'price reaction' to 'news'. 'News' is used as a cover for price action that cannot be easily explained away, but is quite natural. Sekota and others are quite correct when they state, 'throw that flash right in the trash'. Price and time are key considerations in trading. Gann knew it, Elliot knew it, others allude to it. How do you think the old timers could trade intraday with only a ticker tape? Using any technical indicator not in synch with the current proper time frame can be just as disastrous as not using an indicator at all.

As sevensa notes, you are better off keeping your data seperate from an entity that can profit from delays and bad data...as all brokers who can take positions opposite yours can do. Use data from proven data suppliers who are in no way, shape or form affiliated with banks or brokerages. They have a vested interest in maintaining the quality of data. Routing your trade where any broker can see it = bad juju. Banks and brokers who trade at 'less than arms length' have a vested interest in skewing data and using all positioning information of their clients to their benefit. Where there's chum in the water...there will always be sharks.

I've found that the most successful traders are the same as the most successful individuals in other endevours. The most success goes to the one who most thoroughly questions all preconceptions and seeks in places others fear to tread. A fruitful study of trading systems specifically (or of life in general) is best undertaken by reviewing the fundamental assumptions underscoring said.

I would warn everyone away from ninja/zen data. its completely unreliable. last week alone on the ES, one 2 hour and 40 minute data gap and several smaller multi minute gaps. Inexcusable given todays technology and the low investment needed to provide triple redundancy on servers. Only one 'provider' I've found that is worse, and thats ES data on TOS (owned by TD Bank). DTN is affordable, their data clean, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg like esignal.

Zenfire's ES data is only slightly less error ridden than Think or Swims (TD Bank owned), which is god awful. Gaps ranging from several minutes to 2 hours and 40 minutes last week alone on zenfire/ninja. It's therefore little wonder that NinjaTrader has allied itself with many LaSalle St. 'bucket shops'. As the Roman crowd is able to consolidate ownership of data sources from the trading floors, your data will become increasingly unreliable.

Filed under "Neurosis Can Be Fun" "what I find interesting is that there are folks who use some of these approaches (astrology for instance) who for reasons I cannot fathom are really good traders." "I think Astrology is the most "far out" aspect of trading." "He is fascinated by this 'natural law' stuff. (They call it that so people don't think they are crackpots )" Reality exists. Call reality by another name, and few will investigate it. Note what current science many 'Bible' passages represent and note how much was left out of the 'Bible' to obfuscate that. Then look at that science's mythological representations/forms. Gann was quite sane and clearly questioned all he ever thought he understood. He then stated only what he could prove he understood so plainly...that most miss it.

Filed under "Neurosis Can Be Fun" "what I find interesting is that there are folks who use some of these approaches (astrology for instance) who for reasons I cannot fathom are really good traders." "I think Astrology is the most "far out" aspect of trading." "He is fascinated by this 'natural law' stuff. (They call it that so people don't think they are crackpots )" Reality exists. Call reality by another name, and few will investigate it. Note what current science many 'Bible' passages represent and note how much was left out of the 'Bible' to obfuscate that. Then look at that science's mythological representations/forms. Gann was quite sane and clearly questioned all he ever thought he understood. He then stated only what he could prove he understood so plainly...that most miss it.

I won't be cheeky here, but as few understand what a 'market' is...many fail within it. There are many proxies for reality, and few can even properly navigate the real thing.:doh:

I'll echo Pappo's sentiments. "When" is crucial in making ones entries inviolable, not to mention the stops. I view stops much the same way...protection against the 'sudden break' either way. Outliers are rare, and potentially costly.