Soultrader

Hi JT1, Sorry I didnt notice this post till now. I share the same thoughts with you... there are fewer institutional traders due to the credit crunch. Also, banks have cut alot of their risks by diminishing position size. As a result we are seeing few lots per institutional trader causing the bid/ask to remain thinner than before. This causes price to jump easily. For example Nikkei bid/ask used to be 1000 lots back in the late 80's. Since the bubble burst the bid/ask was down to around 200 - 300 lots. However, up until the credit crisis volatility was rather low compared to markets elsewhere. I think one of the elements that cause volatility is that what used to be dominated by big boys trading in lets say 100 lots... now you have the same traders trading in 20-30 lots while some are still trading in 100 lots. As a result, when the 100 lot trader comes into the market he can easily take out 4-5 levels on his own. However, seeing the Nikkei stabilize since the crash (before the credit crunch) my assumption is that with enough time people adjust accordingly and volatility will go back to the norm. Im no expert in this field but since traders will reduce their position sizes accordingly to volatility.. I do think its only a matter of time before volatility settles.

Dear traders, As with the new implementation of the business forum and providing a way to filter out content only to your interest, I have launched the Comprehensive Ignore System. Here are the features: 1. Members can now ignore specific threads. 2. Members can now ignore entire forums. 3. Members can now ignore tags. 4. Members can ignore posts made by users listed in their ignore list. Ignoring a thread or forum will no longer appear in your searches as well as the latest forum activity module. Adding a user to your ignore list will ignore all posts made by that user. Below are snapshots of how to make this work. Ignoring a thread Ignoring a forum Ignoring a user To modify your ignored threads, forums, or users you will need to visit your USERCP. A dropdown will appear allowing you to edit your ignore settings. Please see image below. Comments and feedback are welcome. Thanks!

We were also featured in YourTradingEdge UK Magazine this month which was released just recently. This could be the reason for the sudden rush of new members. Thanks.

I will implement an ignore system so members can completely ignore: threads, posts, users, forums, etc... By doing so, they will not appear in your searches as well. Thanks.

Ill disable the business part for now as I am working on separating them at the moment. Thanks

Just invited a ton of people interested in business

Ive seen a number of prop houses offering top notch platform and a variety of markets for traders. Prop houses function differently from country to country. I know in London traders had more flexibility compared to Tokyo. TT has now become accessible to the retail trader as well like you mentioned. I recall Velocity Futures offering TT for $500 a month or so. Global Futures offers TT with the lowest execution fees that I know of. So you are right... retail traders are now able to play on the same playing field when it comes to tools. But still, we have insitutions using vendors like Fidessa or Orc that would cost millions to implement. This is their edge. Risk control is definitely a big difference. Insitutions usually have risk manager monitoring the traders. Or the FCM can actually input a position size limit nowadays to stop fat finger trades. One more thing I want to mention is that insitutional traders usually work closely with the IT department. The only problem is that the IT people tend to select the platform for traders depending on system compatibility and costs. As a result traders do not get to choose their trading tools that often. This is where I have the biggest issue within insitutions. Why would they let an IT person select a trading platform? They usually have no clue regarding trading or financial markets. And they tend to only know 2 vendors: Bloomberg and Reuters.

For those interested in learning what institutional trading is about, I will offer some details. If you work for a bank or a securities firm, you will most likely be placed in a team of traders. Each team specializes in a certain methodology, style, timeframe, and market. For example, fixed income team will only trade fixed income markets. An equity team will focus primarily on stocks and may hedge with futures or options. A market making team will stick to market making and never holding a position on his own book. A book is a each traders account. A team may be assigned a book but within this each trader will also hold his book. The book is simply the P&L for the trader and this is all that matters in insitutional trading. There are many advantages of institutional trading. You do not trade your own personal money. this is a huge benefit for most people. Many insitutional traders will never trade their own money. Information is readily available to you. Assistant traders, economists, researchers, backtesters, etc... all provide traders will top notch information. An instustutional trader clearly has an edge in terms of information. Number of markets one can access. Institutional traders usually use vendors like Bloomberg or Reuters. This allows one to monitor most global markets. The exchange data fees itself could be extremely costly for a retail trader. Execution Platform. Many banks have their own in hous execution platform. If not, they use a more high end platform like Trading Technologies, Pats, GL Trade, etc.. Also since many banks have direct lines to the exchanges if they are FCM members youre speed of execution is most likely faster than the internet based retail trader. Knowledge. You are working with other traders. As a result information can be discussed frequently before and after the markets. Thus, it gives you room to learn from better traders as well. Strategies that involve capital. Institutional traders have access to high-end software and capital that they can apply strategies that would require deep pockets. In the retail world, you often hear do not average down. But in the insitutional world this is exactly what traders do to build a position. Also, strategies like arbitrage can be implemented which usually is a very low risk, consistent, and profitable strategy. Some disadvantages of institutional trading. As most banks have global contracts with various vendors, you are stuck with a designated trading platform. Both Bloomberg and Reuters have a 2 year contract and as a result a trader can be stuck with these platforms for his entire time. (sometimes a request can be made depending on the bank) Personally if you are a technical day trader Bloomberg and Reuters are the worst platform to use. As a result the retail trader has a variety of options for trading tools compared to the insitutional trader. Management. There is not much flexibility with what you can do. If management requests you downsize your risk, you must. You may see opportunities in markets other than your own... but the bank will not let you trade it. You can be restricted to a select instrument they have assigned you to trade. Frequency. Institutional trading requires a more high frequency style of trading. If you sit there the entire morning session waiting for a trade to happen management may get up in your face asking why you are not working. Buy or sell side: If you are trading both buy and sell side, you also need to deal with client orders. So you can be half prop half sales trader. If you are used to retail trading only for yourself, this can be a big pain in the ass.Technology. Banks have strict policies on pc usage. As a result, you do not have the luxury to snagit charts or camstudio video clips of your trades for study and record keeping. All information must remain within the firm and you are not allowed to freely take home information on your own. Remember, even within your own team you are competitors of one another. It is a game of the survival of the fittest and you can only win by taking money from other traders. This includes your trading buddy sitting next to you. Thus, always keep in mind that your trading buddy may be a friend but also an enemy. (what my boss used to tell me) Anyways, that is all I can think of for now. But please feel free to add any inputs if you have insitutional experience! Thanks.

Hi brownsfan, Unfortunately I have removed the scam section in order to protect TL. I received a notice from a legal firm and do not want anything to do with them and would rather avoid this mess altogether. I checked up on the internet laws and an anonymous format will not work. In order to protect both TL and the members, I have decided to remove the scam alert forum. FYI... apparently a website can not be held liable for third party content as in the case here. (need to do more research) Another related case is Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Computer Services, Inc., which was a case of defamatory bulletin board postings. Initially, the poster was tracked. When they could not, Prodigy was sued but later Congress enacted the Communications Decency Act (CDA) to prevent courts from treating internet system operators (in this case the owner of the bulletin board) as publishers of third party content. Thus, the Attorney General ruled that patently offensive language to be unconstitutionally vauge, overboard, and subjective. I reckon this is a case by case judgement. However, just so everyone on TL stays safe the spam alert section has been removed.

This is a continuation from this thread here. Optimism followed through to the US markets, causing ES to rally hard in the afternoon session. Today Nikkei showed a bit of lack of demand once price gapped up. Morning session was rather dull with prices not attracting enough buyers. However, into the close, we had a strong rally to push price back into the upper portion of its range. We are seeing some institutional buying appearing into the late afternoon. USD/JPY rallied hard yesterday as well... still following through in today's Japanese market session. I am seeing alot of optimism in the markets and expect this to follow through intothe US. However, there is a little bit of pressure to the downside from Europe as I write so will need to observe a bit more. If Europe can hold and remain net change positive, I would expect another rally today in the US. Happy trading

Dear traders, There has been a change in the structure of premium members. From today, all users with 300 posts or more will be moved to Premium Membership status. Premium member subscription has been removed entirely. 300 posts seems like a reasonable number allowing veteran members to obtain premium membership status which offers access to the premium forums. Hopefully we can get some activity going in the premium forums as well. For all current premium members, your status has been upgraded to a lifetime premium membership even though your subscription may have expired. If you have previously subscribed and do not see a premium status please email or pm me. If there are any feedback's, please post here. Thank you. Note: Please do not abuse the signature for your premium account by posting links.

Hey bootstrap, should be interesting to watch. I had my own Chris Ferguson Challenge back a while back... with $150 to my name and my landlord kicking me out in 2 weeks. Ended up flipping $50 of the $150 into $1500 in 10 days playing poker... eventually built that into over $40,000 over the course of the year. That $40,000 opened up doors for me during my early college years.. eventually building a stake to enter the trading world as well as using the funds to start businesses. But it all started with $50 Anyways, will monitor how this threads go. Should be interesting.

I am also interested in Lasik but have been a bit hesitant to do so. My vision is extremely bad, -8.5 in my left eye and -9.0 on my right eye. Without contacts all I see is color variations. angel... what happens if your vision deteriorates after Lasik. Can one get Lasik again? Also would you know what countries have the most advanced technology and skill set for such operation? Thanks.

This section is for discussion related to Suri's live chat session from October 24, 2008. Please feel free to discuss Suri's book and patterns covered in the chat session. The official transcript can be found here.

This is a transcript from October 24, 2008 with Suri Duddella, author of "Trade Chart Patterns Like The Pros". [16:10:40] suriNotes: Thanks all for attending my presentation/chat session [16:10:41] Soultrader: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf'>http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf'>http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf'>http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf'>http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf [16:10:44] Tasuki: pity [16:11:07] suriNotes: I'll be typing some of my presentation... so pl. bear with me w/spellings etc [16:11:20] Tasuki: s'OK, suri [16:11:25] suriNotes: The presentation is about 60 slides and I'll try to be fast [16:11:32] suriNotes: we will cover in 45-60m [16:11:40] suriNotes: and then I'll answer any questions you may have [16:12:03] angelaktariel: sounds great Suri [16:12:04] suriNotes: Some of you know me form my book and other presentations [16:12:14] suriNotes: but I'll give a brief introduction in the presentation [16:12:34] suriNotes: I'll be calling for the SLIDE page [] [16:12:44] suriNotes: and then go on presenting [16:12:54] suriNotes: Do all of you have the Presentation? [16:12:58] suriNotes: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf [16:13:02] simb11: yes [16:13:07] suriNotes: gr8 [16:13:07] stanlyd: y [16:13:08] myrtleturtle: y [16:13:14] Tasuki: y [16:13:16] quintadocedro1: y [16:13:21] dona: y [16:13:23] suriNotes: I'll be answering your questions in the end since it may be reading/answering [16:13:24] theman: y [16:13:26] angelaktariel: yes [16:13:28] innovation: y [16:13:33] simtrader: y [16:13:39] Chriseberly: yes [16:13:51] suriNotes: Before I move further, pl. read the disclaimer [16:13:54] mdhanafi68: yes. [16:13:57] suriNotes: slide [2] [16:14:09] angelaktariel: y [16:14:16] Tasuki: y [16:14:17] theman: u [16:14:19] theman: y [16:14:22] suriNotes: Slide[3] [16:14:27] suriNotes: Agenda [16:14:47] suriNotes: Briefly, I'll introduce myself, My Trading Methodolgy, research [16:15:04] suriNotes: Then I present Overview of Entries/Exits in Pattern trading [16:15:12] suriNotes: I'll list TOp 10 Patterns [16:15:26] suriNotes: And then I present two of the TOP 10 patterns [16:15:39] suriNotes: I will conclude my presnetaiton with Book Review [16:15:44] suriNotes: my book review [16:15:58] suriNotes: Slide[5] [16:16:19] suriNotes: I am sure most of you know.. I am a Chart Pattern Based trader.. [16:16:28] suriNotes: Have been trading for about 13+ years Full time [16:16:46] suriNotes: Slide [6] [16:16:57] suriNotes: I have listed all presentations/articles etc [16:17:07] suriNotes: I'll skip this slide but [16:17:22] suriNotes: pl. take a note of my interview in S&C (sept. 08) [16:17:32] suriNotes: it does cover two of the patterns I am going to discuss today [16:17:44] suriNotes: Slide[7] [16:17:48] suriNotes: Slide[8] [16:18:09] suriNotes: I trade EminiFutures, @ES, @YM, @NQ... [16:18:17] suriNotes: I am a short-term trader in Eminis [16:18:32] suriNotes: I use 610Tick, 5m and Daily charts to identify my patterns [16:18:33] suriNotes: and trade [16:18:39] suriNotes: I also Trade Equities [16:18:52] suriNotes: Mostly Swing Trading.. Overnight positions to few days [16:19:06] suriNotes: Slide[9] [16:19:19] suriNotes: My trading is discretionary [16:19:28] suriNotes: I have strategys in TS [16:19:47] suriNotes: But all of it is based on Technical Analysis [16:20:02] suriNotes: I use Bar Charts, Renko/Range Bars [16:20:12] suriNotes: Purely Price-Action/Patterns [16:20:41] suriNotes: Also all of my theories are self-buit, tested [16:21:00] suriNotes: Slide[10] [16:21:27] suriNotes: I spend about 12 hrs daily building trading plans, writing journals and Trading [16:21:41] suriNotes: I also post all my trade setups, ideas to my website [16:21:53] suriNotes: my trading platform: TradeStation [16:22:01] suriNotes: Slide[11] [16:22:20] suriNotes: Here is how my Trading Day looks [16:22:33] suriNotes: just briefly... [16:22:41] suriNotes: I do not trade Equities Intraday [16:22:53] suriNotes: I only trade Futures from 9-3pm [16:23:05] suriNotes: I stop trading 3pm ET Futures... [16:23:22] suriNotes: then I start looking at equities for potential Setups/Trades [16:23:30] suriNotes: to keep Overnight to few days [16:24:08] suriNotes: Also, after 3pm.. I never trade Eminis [16:24:27] suriNotes: Historically my biggest losses came after 3pm in Emins.. hence I avoid [16:24:38] suriNotes: Most losses also came after 3pm in SHORTS [16:25:06] suriNotes: IN equities, I take New Positions from 3pm.. [16:25:18] suriNotes: Recently I avoided most days [16:25:26] suriNotes: equities [16:25:39] suriNotes: Slide[12][13] [16:25:52] Soultrader: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf [16:25:54] suriNotes: Overview of Entries/Exits... [16:26:01] suriNotes: Thanks James [16:26:33] suriNotes: I think every trade should have these 4 Key concepts.. [16:27:00] suriNotes: Before any trade is taken, you must know your Framework [16:27:22] suriNotes: Frmae Work consists of your Time-Frame, Your Trading Time Zones [16:27:48] suriNotes: For example.. My Best Trading is in the first few hours from the open [16:27:56] suriNotes: my worst trading is hte Last hour [16:28:28] suriNotes: Once you know your trading time zone.. You should stick to it [16:28:42] suriNotes: @ REASON to TRADE [16:28:49] suriNotes: You must have a reason to trade.. [16:28:57] Tasuki: why is last hour worst? [16:28:58] suriNotes: A Setup, Pattern or Indication [16:29:31] suriNotes: Many traders trade because of some momentum or Hunch, News or Random twitch of hand [16:29:48] suriNotes: Boredom is NOT a reason to trade [16:30:02] suriNotes: Trading tests everyone's patience [16:30:11] suriNotes: @Execution [16:30:34] suriNotes: you must plan your trade well [16:30:52] suriNotes: Trade entries based some trigger conditions and exits based on targets/stops [16:31:14] suriNotes: Know your platform and nuances very well.. [16:31:20] suriNotes: must have a backup plan [16:31:29] suriNotes: @@ Management [16:31:48] suriNotes: Know your Limits with your SIZE, STOPs, Targets [16:32:12] suriNotes: it is a much larger topic and varies for everyone [16:32:45] suriNotes: Slide[14] .. skipped [16:32:58] suriNotes: Slide[15].. A Planned Entry Leads to A Planned Exit [16:33:11] suriNotes: Slide[16].. [16:33:23] suriNotes: Here I am going to present some of key Entries/Exits I use [16:33:36] suriNotes: And then I will present each in detail [16:33:56] suriNotes: Slide[17] [16:34:14] suriNotes: Most of patterns present great entry techniques [16:34:24] suriNotes: Here I present how I use a 2-Bar High [16:34:26] suriNotes: as Entry [16:34:38] suriNotes: See the pattern on left [16:35:04] suriNotes: once hte pattern is complete, I look to enter few ticks above 2-Bar High [16:35:15] suriNotes: I'll explain [few-ticks] soon [16:35:27] suriNotes: Also on the right [16:35:46] suriNotes: a 2-Bar Low - fewTicks for bearish pattern [16:36:00] suriNotes: Slide[18] [16:36:21] suriNotes: Swing High/Swing Lows as the entry techique [16:36:31] suriNotes: again I use [few-ticks] above SH/SL [16:36:43] suriNotes: Slide[19] [16:37:08] suriNotes: Entry is based on Breakout/BD bar's High/Low [16:37:17] suriNotes: See the Green Bar .. Breakout bar [16:37:28] suriNotes: Most traders try to enter on this bar [16:37:41] suriNotes: this bar could be a *Fake Bar* [16:37:52] mong: does that keep you out of false breakouts? [16:37:58] suriNotes: so, wait for price to trade above the B/O bar + [few-ticks] [16:38:07] suriNotes: yes. mong [16:38:17] suriNotes: Slide[20] [16:38:30] suriNotes: Entry.. Certain patterns require [16:38:36] mong: nice example. tx. [16:38:39] suriNotes: confirmation that the pattern is Complete [16:38:56] suriNotes: for example.. Here the X5 or Gartley type patterns [16:39:11] suriNotes: Confirmation comes when price start displaying Wide-range bars [16:39:28] suriNotes: When price trades WR bar High or Low [16:39:39] suriNotes: that would be entry [16:39:55] suriNotes: Slide [21] [16:40:14] suriNotes: the concept of [few-ticks] [16:40:33] suriNotes: it is popularized by Toby Crabel in his book [16:40:54] suriNotes: I compute a 10 period RangeBreakout value [16:41:09] suriNotes: the Minimum distance of Open to High and Open to Low [16:41:19] suriNotes: 10 period average of it [16:41:35] mong: nice. [16:41:37] suriNotes: usually for Emini Futures it is 1-2 ticks [16:41:46] suriNotes: so, I use High + ORB to enter to trade [16:41:50] suriNotes: or Low - ORB [16:41:55] suriNotes: it is a simple math [16:42:09] suriNotes: Slide [22] [16:42:12] suriNotes: Exits [16:42:21] suriNotes: Exits also MUST be planned [16:42:40] suriNotes: Usually you have plenty of time before [ENTRY] [16:42:53] suriNotes: once you are in a trade.. You have less time to plan [EXIT] [16:43:04] suriNotes: hence, both needs to be planned ahead of the trade [16:43:11] suriNotes: easy to say than done [16:43:30] suriNotes: But use Fib. Levels, ATR levels, Bar Sizes to exits [16:43:39] suriNotes: Slide [23] [16:43:48] suriNotes: Key supp , levels... [16:43:54] bakrob99: do you consider the Risk-Reward before taking the trade? [16:43:55] suriNotes: I use 21, 89 XMAs [16:44:02] suriNotes: not in scalps [16:44:08] suriNotes: for Equities yes [16:44:20] suriNotes: Also use SH/SL, TrendLines [16:44:25] suriNotes: For Eminsi [16:44:35] bakrob99: do you base your stop then on ... say an ATR? [16:44:38] suriNotes: Pre. Day High/Lows, GBX Lows/Highs [16:44:50] suriNotes: do act as S/R [16:45:06] suriNotes: bak.. some setups have ATR based.. [16:45:25] suriNotes: Slide [24] [16:45:25] bakrob99: k .. thks [16:45:30] suriNotes: I use Fib. Numbers [16:45:38] suriNotes: Fib Levels [16:46:00] suriNotes: more in the pres. [16:46:09] suriNotes: Slide [26] [16:46:21] suriNotes: has a small video on Tools I built [16:46:35] suriNotes: we can see after presentation [16:46:49] suriNotes: Slide [27][28] [16:46:58] suriNotes: Here is a List of Top10 Favorite patterns [16:47:13] suriNotes: My book covers 65 patterns with detailed Entry/Exits and Stops/Targets [16:47:22] suriNotes: I'll give a brief overview at the end [16:47:30] suriNotes: Slide [28] [16:47:35] suriNotes: Pattern Trading [16:47:58] suriNotes: atterns MUST be Mastered before TRADED. If you do not know the RULES of a PATTERN formation (Location, Type, Size) and ENTRY/STOPS and TARGETS, you have NOT mastered it and do not attempt to trade it just because you have seen somewhere... [16:48:10] suriNotes: P [16:48:28] suriNotes: Pattern TRADING =============== ** There are NO Perfect Patterns ** All Patterns FAIL, Key is to KNOW when to trade them and when to 'Avoid' them ** There is NO single pattern which is a HOLY GRAIL ** Patterns must be CLEARLY visible... DO NOT GUESS or FORCE a Pattern [16:49:05] suriNotes: Slide [29] [16:49:16] suriNotes: My favorite Top 10 Patterns [16:49:27] suriNotes: 1. ABC 2. Trader Vic's 2B 3. Gartleys (all 5 point Harmonic Patterns) 4. Pivot Trading (OpenRange and FibZone Pivots are my favs) 5. Fib. Bands 6. Flags/Pennants/Wedges 7. Triangles 8. Fib Clusters (Only Trends) 9. Double Bottoms/Tops 10. Dragon [16:49:49] suriNotes: I'll present TOP 2 patterns now [16:49:59] suriNotes: Slide [30] [16:50:07] suriNotes: Slide [31] [16:50:23] suriNotes: Trader Vic's 2B [16:50:38] suriNotes: This pattern is one of most favorite pattern [16:50:54] OAC: Walter's [16:50:58] OAC: m, W [16:51:10] suriNotes: It is presented in Trader Vic's (Vicotor Sperandeo) [16:51:13] suriNotes: 's Book [16:51:24] suriNotes: Principles of Professional Speculation [16:51:36] suriNotes: Yes, it is a Double Top/Double bottom [16:51:43] suriNotes: Irregular [16:51:51] suriNotes: But most DT/DBs are irregular.. [16:51:58] suriNotes: very rarely Bottoms/Tops match [16:52:11] suriNotes: Slide [33] [16:52:22] suriNotes: 2B Top [16:52:39] suriNotes: On left you see a steep uptrend a make a New High [16:52:54] suriNotes: followed by some retracement [needs 6-8 bars] [16:53:04] suriNotes: then an attempt to breakout of the new high [16:53:19] suriNotes: Mark the Bar Which tries to breakout [16:53:26] suriNotes: Mark the Low of the Bar [16:53:29] quintadocedro1: 5 min or 610 tick chart [16:53:40] suriNotes: any tf [16:53:53] suriNotes: when there is NO follow thro' [16:54:08] suriNotes: and price reverses and close below the Marked Low [16:54:16] suriNotes: That is the SHORT trigger [16:54:30] suriNotes: Short LOW - [ORB] explained before [16:54:34] suriNotes: [few-ticks] concept [16:54:56] suriNotes: Place a Stop abvoe the SH + [few-ticks] [16:55:09] suriNotes: Target the the Swing Low prior to New-High [16:55:10] jbtrades: new high RTH or GBX? [16:55:34] suriNotes: I don't trade GBX .. but RTH [16:55:51] suriNotes: Slide [34] [16:55:52] bakrob99: do you have automated strategies to trade these patterns? [16:55:59] suriNotes: See the example [16:56:02] suriNotes: yes [16:56:19] suriNotes: 1. ) NH [16:56:29] suriNotes: 2 Bar trying to breakout [16:56:34] suriNotes: no follow thro [16:56:49] suriNotes: 3. Bar Closed below the 2's Low [16:56:54] suriNotes: Short trigger [16:57:05] suriNotes: Place a Stop abvoe 2+ few-ticks [16:57:26] suriNotes: Slide[35] [16:57:32] bakrob99: you are my hero ... [16:57:39] suriNotes: 2B Auto [16:57:43] suriNotes: : [16:57:45] suriNotes: [16:58:38] suriNotes: word of caution on 2BS [16:58:44] suriNotes: 2Bs [16:58:50] suriNotes: In short-time frames [16:58:57] suriNotes: you will see plenty of 2B Tops/Bottoms [16:59:19] suriNotes: You need to make sure the First New High is really a longer-term NH [16:59:24] suriNotes: or NL [16:59:46] suriNotes: They work very well in defined trends.. where it really establishes NH/NLs [16:59:57] suriNotes: Slide [36] [17:00:10] suriNotes: Current @ES in trouble [17:00:14] suriNotes: 2B Top Signal [17:00:28] Soultrader: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf [17:00:37] suriNotes: Slide [37] [17:00:42] suriNotes: 2B Bottom [17:00:51] suriNotes: It is reverse of the logic of 2B Top [17:01:11] suriNotes: Market needs to be in Steep sell off or down-trend [17:01:16] suriNotes: New Low [17:01:25] suriNotes: Folloowed by retracement.. [17:01:39] suriNotes: then an attempt to close below the new-low [17:01:46] suriNotes: no follow-through [17:02:13] suriNotes: Mark the High of the B/D Bar [17:02:24] OAC: Do you look at Dinapoli's Repo ? [17:02:29] suriNotes: When prices retrace and close above the high of B/D bar [17:02:35] suriNotes: OAC.. no [17:03:01] suriNotes: Enter Long above BD High + [Few-ticks] [17:03:12] BlowFish: Hi, just came to apologise for not making it earlier... ac ouple of things came up that needed attention [17:03:17] suriNotes: stop below the low of Swing Low - [fewticks] [17:03:21] suriNotes: ok [17:03:43] suriNotes: Target the Swing High prior to First New LOw [17:03:52] suriNotes: Slide [38] [17:03:57] Soultrader: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/webinars/suriDuddella_TL_Oct2408.pdf [17:03:57] suriNotes: Examples [17:04:08] suriNotes: Market in down-trend [17:04:13] suriNotes: 1. New Low [17:04:26] suriNotes: 2. Attempted New Low after retracement [17:04:41] suriNotes: 3. Price Closed above Bar2's High [17:04:56] suriNotes: Slide [39] [17:05:14] suriNotes: Slide [40] [17:05:35] suriNotes: Slide[41-42] [17:05:51] suriNotes: These videos are posted on Youtube.. [17:05:56] suriNotes: search for surinotes [17:06:10] suriNotes: Slide [43] [17:06:13] suriNotes: ABC Patterns [17:06:27] suriNotes: This is my favorite pattern [17:06:47] suriNotes: any market, any time-frame, the chart is always in a ABC pattern [17:06:55] suriNotes: either bullish or bearish ABCs [17:07:10] suriNotes: Markets always Trend, Reverse and Continue its Trend [17:07:13] scottybythelake: http://www.youtube.com/user/surinotes'>http://www.youtube.com/user/surinotes [17:07:19] suriNotes: Slide[44] [17:07:29] bakrob99: Do you always use LIMIT orders .. or do you sometimes enter with a market if the pattern completes and you are not aboard... [17:07:33] suriNotes: ABC Patterns.. First written in HM Gartleys [17:07:44] suriNotes: Always Limit Orders Only [17:08:04] suriNotes: It is also called 3-Pivot pattern looks like Lightening Bolt [17:08:19] suriNotes: I only trade in the Direction of the TREND in ABC [17:08:27] suriNotes: Not the Retracement [17:08:37] suriNotes: Slide [45] [17:08:45] suriNotes: Type of AB=CD structures [17:09:03] suriNotes: there are two types.. ABCs are either Retracement or Extensions [17:09:25] suriNotes: Look at 'C' point to determine if it is Retr. or Extension [17:09:42] suriNotes: Slide [46] [17:09:47] suriNotes: ABC Bullish example [17:09:56] myrtleturtle: how do you know when "C" is in place? [17:09:59] suriNotes: All these patterns are AUTO-detected in Real-Time and EOD [17:10:00] suriNotes: in TS [17:10:17] suriNotes: ABC Bullish [17:10:26] suriNotes: Now my ABCs have Entry, Stops [17:10:30] suriNotes: not part of this chart [17:10:43] suriNotes: Once ABC is complete.. [17:10:54] suriNotes: Look for one of the Entry Technique presented before [17:11:01] suriNotes: 2-Bar High + [few-ticks] [17:11:09] suriNotes: Place a Stop below [c] [17:11:15] suriNotes: [c] - few-ticks [17:11:27] suriNotes: Targets are also auto placed [17:11:42] suriNotes: I trade mostly until 100% of AB size [17:11:53] suriNotes: Slide [47] [17:12:00] suriNotes: Another example [17:12:15] suriNotes: On My website I post all my ABC Trades in Real-Time [17:12:21] suriNotes: you can see my Archives [17:12:28] suriNotes: http://www.surinotes.com/'>http://www.surinotes.com/'>http://www.surinotes.com/ [17:12:44] suriNotes: Slide [48] [17:12:47] suriNotes: ABC Bearish [17:13:03] suriNotes: Same Entry Technique.. 2-Bar Low - [few-ticks] [17:13:23] suriNotes: Slide[49] Another ABC [17:13:33] suriNotes: Slide [50] [17:13:44] suriNotes: Here is one of my favorite ABC type to trade [17:14:08] suriNotes: I plot a Fib. Grid .. Consists of FIb. Zone Pivots, Bands [17:14:37] suriNotes: This is the example I talked about in My interview in Stocks and Commodities (Sep. 08) issue [17:14:53] suriNotes: This type of example [17:15:00] suriNotes: James.. [17:15:02] suriNotes: ? [17:15:09] suriNotes: I see a latency notice? [17:15:26] suriNotes: can u guys see me?? [17:15:33] Head2k: y [17:15:33] BlowFish: yes [17:15:35] angelaktariel: y [17:15:37] scottybythelake: y [17:15:37] xracer: yes [17:15:37] stanlyd: y [17:15:37] Soultrader: y [17:15:39] simb11: y [17:15:42] quintadocedro1: y [17:15:45] mdhanafi68: yes. [17:15:51] simtrader: y [17:15:51] suriNotes: thx.. i thought i am talking to my self [17:15:54] myrtleturtle: y [17:16:01] suriNotes: Slide [51] [17:16:10] suriNotes: ABC Scans in RS (on Youtube) [17:16:22] suriNotes: Slide [52] [17:16:33] suriNotes: videos on Youtube.. under my id: suriNotes [17:16:48] scottybythelake: http://www.youtube.com/user/surinotes [17:16:49] suriNotes: Slide [53-54] [17:17:08] suriNotes: Here I present my Book "Trade Chart Patterns Like The Pros" [17:17:13] suriNotes: Thanks scotty [17:17:27] suriNotes: Book video on Youtube [17:17:40] suriNotes: Slide [56] [17:17:56] suriNotes: Book took over 4+ years to write/compile [17:18:04] suriNotes: It is written for Traders [17:18:15] simb11: Suri, do you sell your TS indicators? [17:18:17] suriNotes: Purely frm Practical perspective [17:18:22] Soultrader: great book by the way i highly recommend it [17:18:22] suriNotes: some simb [17:18:43] simb11: How do we get in touch? [17:18:50] suriNotes: It presents 65 patterns on 300 pages of 250+ large illustrated charts [17:18:55] suriNotes: http://www.surinotes.com/ [17:19:00] simb11: thks [17:19:15] suriNotes: Each pattern is presented with Entry/Exit and CLear Examples of Stops/Targets etc [17:19:30] suriNotes: No Oscillators or other indicators presented.. Just Patterns and How to trade them [17:19:30] lylo: how do you tell the difference between an ABC, which may actually be a 2B pattern? [17:19:50] suriNotes: lylo.. give me a min [17:19:59] lylo: sure [17:20:00] suriNotes: Slide [57] [17:20:10] suriNotes: Here I present the various patterns in various groups [17:20:23] suriNotes: Slide [58] [17:20:46] suriNotes: Pick few patterns of your interest and Study them [17:20:48] myrtleturtle: can you give any stats regarding average risk:reward per pattern, and how often patterns appear? [17:21:02] suriNotes: Master these patterns with your own setups, time-frames [17:21:23] myrtleturtle: it seems they are generally 1:1 or 1:1.5 or so. is that fair? [17:21:28] suriNotes: Slide [59] [17:21:39] suriNotes: For TL Members.. I have a Discount offer [17:21:45] suriNotes: $10 off the current price [17:21:56] suriNotes: http://www.surinotes.com/TL/ [17:22:12] suriNotes: Slide [60] [17:22:25] suriNotes: My email and my website: http://www.surinotes.com [17:22:39] suriNotes: Thanks all .. I'll answer some of your questions [17:22:48] suriNotes: Lylo: [17:23:07] suriNotes: They probably look the same..But 2B is identified by a SIngle bar [17:23:09] lylo: yes [17:23:25] suriNotes: where as ABCs are group of bar and requires retracements, pivot strengths to compute [17:23:43] suriNotes: also ABCs are Continuation trade-setup [17:23:49] suriNotes: where as 2B is a Reversal [17:23:54] suriNotes: setup [17:23:59] lylo: which is why I asked [17:24:00] suriNotes: myrtle.. [17:24:06] suriNotes: I have some patterns Stats.. [17:24:20] mong: i'm heading off. ty suri and soul. GTA! [17:24:21] suriNotes: they vary in diff. time-frames [17:24:40] bakrob99: I have just ordered the book ... Thanks You Suri ! [17:24:43] BlowFish: pre-empted my question (pattern stats) [17:24:54] xracer: ty [17:24:59] suriNotes: thnx bakrob [17:25:17] lylo: if you think you are in an ABC pattern, couldn't you enter, then find out it is reversing shortly after, and is really a double top? [17:25:22] scottybythelake: which pattern in which time-frame has the best stats? [17:25:31] BlowFish: have you found that your stats have improved with experience and 'filtering' the patterns? By a lot or not? [17:25:50] bakrob99: James - Will the history of this chat be available on the website? [17:26:06] Soultrader: yes of course [17:26:15] Soultrader: the transcript will be up right after this session [17:26:34] suriNotes: scotty.. The best pattern for me is 2B in 610T [17:26:39] suriNotes: also ABCs, Gartley etc [17:27:05] suriNotes: Blow.. I think I use Patterns with a Context [17:27:09] suriNotes: Fib. Grid.. [17:27:49] suriNotes: So, ABCs appear many .. but I take certain ABCs using criteria [17:28:02] suriNotes: same as 2Bs [17:28:18] suriNotes: The Context is Fib. Grid.. It is the size, location of the pattern and time-frame etc [17:28:25] lylo: and the criteria and stats are in your book? [17:28:53] suriNotes: All the criteria.. No stats in the book [17:29:02] suriNotes: Entry, Exits [17:29:10] suriNotes: Stops and Targets for each pattern [17:29:36] suriNotes: Stats should be useful to the reader.. [17:29:36] lylo: how do I weight the probability of success (without testing it myself;- ) [17:29:48] OAC: Do you trade pttern failures ? [17:30:07] suriNotes: you have to make these patterns your -own lylo [17:30:10] suriNotes: yes OAC [17:30:21] BlowFish: do you have a limit (ticks or number of bars) that a 2b has before returning above/below previous swing? [17:30:28] suriNotes: some Pattern failures have higher success than the pattern itself [17:30:31] myrtleturtle: I suppose, with ABC, the entry is within the AB pattern, and target is AB, then risk:reward is just over 1:1 [17:30:36] BlowFish: before its 'invalidated' [17:30:43] myrtleturtle: \length ofAB [17:30:43] suriNotes: Number of Bars.. It is a variable [17:30:44] suriNotes: yes [17:31:02] suriNotes: yes myrl? [17:31:32] OAC: I trade Woodie's CCI pattern failures [17:31:51] suriNotes: I bet he won't like it.. if you tell him [17:32:15] suriNotes: i don't CCI or any Momentum indicators.. [17:33:13] suriNotes: any other qs? [17:33:18] angelaktariel: how important is volume with any of these patterns? [17:33:23] TraderDog: Do you ever use tick/trin... market internals to filter trades? [17:33:40] suriNotes: i think Volume is important.. But i don't use .. [17:33:48] myrtleturtle: do you use volume in any context as filters? [17:34:01] angelaktariel: thanks [17:34:03] suriNotes: myrl.. No [17:34:10] suriNotes: TraderDog [17:34:19] suriNotes: yes.. I use TICK/TRIN in Market internal [17:34:24] Soultrader: angel.. good question im actually considering incorporating volume into some of Suris patterns [17:34:33] suriNotes: I recently built a Combined Market Internal (CMI) indicator [17:34:35] Soultrader: as i am big on volume [17:34:38] suriNotes: which works great [17:34:43] angelaktariel: cool James, would love to hear more on that [17:35:08] suriNotes: CMI from yest [17:35:10] suriNotes: http://www.surinotes.com/index.cfm?pDate=20081023&CSEL=1001 [17:35:13] TraderDog: Do you include uvol/dvol, premium (futures-cash)? [17:35:19] suriNotes: along with my intraday posts [17:35:22] suriNotes: yes [17:35:24] suriNotes: TD [17:35:41] TraderDog: Thanks. [17:36:39] Soultrader: suri i have a question [17:36:52] Soultrader: how disadvantage is one who does not have programming skills [17:37:00] suriNotes: sure [17:37:15] suriNotes: some patterns require you to know to identify [17:37:20] suriNotes: some are very simple [17:37:24] suriNotes: for example [17:37:40] suriNotes: Triangles, Rectangles, 2B, some price-reversal pattenrs [17:37:43] suriNotes: you do not need [17:38:09] suriNotes: but for Gartleys, Auto ABCs or some complex bar-relationships [17:38:18] suriNotes: you do need to identify them in RT [17:38:20] suriNotes: or EOD [17:38:54] Soultrader: okay [17:39:00] suriNotes: did I answer you Q, james? [17:39:06] Soultrader: yes thank you [17:39:20] suriNotes: any other Qs? [17:39:51] angelaktariel: Thank you Suri, this was great! [17:40:03] TraderDog: Are your pattern recognition algorithms hand coded or do you use neural nets, parsers, ... or other techniques? [17:40:04] Soultrader: yes thank you very much Suri [17:40:05] stanlyd: thanks [17:40:05] suriNotes: Thanks Anglela [17:40:08] scottybythelake: thx : ) [17:40:19] xracer: thanks [17:40:20] suriNotes: No Neural nets.. [17:40:33] mdhanafi68: just wonder, if in future need to ask.. how? [17:40:37] TraderDog: Hand coded bar patterns?? in E/L? [17:40:48] suriNotes: yes [17:40:54] Soultrader: guys im going to open a thread to discuss this session [17:40:58] Soultrader: will post a link shortly [17:41:07] suriNotes: md... surinotes@gmail.com [17:41:12] TraderDog: Thx... looking at using parsers... [17:41:30] suriNotes: ok [17:41:52] mdhanafi68: thanks suri, and soul i'm looking forward for the thread too. [17:41:55] Soultrader: everyone good? [17:42:04] myrtleturtle: thanks suri and Soul for taking the time for this. excellent stuff. have a good weekend. [17:42:04] angelaktariel: me too James...thanks [17:42:08] xracer: y [17:42:25] Head2k: Thabk you very much for this session. [17:42:33] suriNotes: Thanks Guys.. I enjoyed presenting too [17:42:34] Soultrader: i thank you all for attending and many thanks to Suri for hosting this session

A bit of an update..... Further weakness throughout the day for Nikkei... not a single sign of support throughout the day. things are looking pretty bad to the downside.. key support level of 7700 needs to hold or else we are going to break to new lows again. (see daily chart)

I am sensing a bit of stabilization in the markets... possibly rangebound on the short term. 10/22 profile indicated short covering... followed by an morning decline on the 23rd. Now we saw price rally back into the upper half of its range late afternoon with the support on the 16th near 23rd's low. Hence, a bit of strength in my opinion with price pushing back into the previous days value area. We are seeing responsive buying below the 900 mark. Now a bit of intermarket strategy based off this technical analysis on the ES. If my above analysis stands correct, I can assume the Nikkei to gap up on Monday. Hence, a plan would be to look for a long setup preferably after a decline (usually morning test to the downside). Though a still jittery off fundamentals so intraday is still the safer option for me. Now because you are long and my analysis is slightly bullish do not take my words into consideration. We tend to listen to comments that support our position only... like fooling yourself into thinking that your position is right because an indicator you just pulled up on your charts is oversold. Honor thy stops!

I found this post on "Re: The Way to Trade the Emini." interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Topic Of The Month October, 2008"

I have no idea what they are... I dont use them. They were given to me by an institutional trader.

Yes but not entirely as spammers constantly figure out ways to cheat the captcha ant-spam system. I made it extra difficult now for spammers to take control. First time posters with links are always being moderated before publicly appearing. And zero post members are not allowed to use the pm system. Hopefully this will block the junk flowing in.

Time period: 1900 - 1927 Time period: 1920 - 1950 (Wall Street Crash of 1929) Time period: 1950 - 1981 Time period: 1982 - Present (Black Monday 1987 and Credit Crunch Present)

Not a good idea... they use very complicated tactics to spam. Also, I do not want to spam them back and then have TL listed on an entire database of spammers to choose from. This will seriously crash the server. Im going to setup a system where pm is restricted with those with more than 1 post. This way I can get rid of spam bots.

Taking a look here at the $VIX and ES. The first chart shows the overlay of the $VIX and ES... notice the extreme readings in the $VIX usually led to a rally. Look at where the$VIX is now. There is extreme pessimism in the markets. Many S&P traders will pay closer attention to the trend of the $VIX. The trend on the $VIX is still upwards creating higher highs and higher lows, and would preferably want to see the $VIX start trending downwards before calling bottoms. However, take a look at the ES during these times of extreme $VIX readings. We had heavy volume over the past month will the ES finally creating a higher low on the 16th of October. Buying appeared on the tech sector as well creating a double bottom support. Somewhat positive on the short term. Taking a look at the Nikkei today. Surpsingly positive, following through from Fridays US action but also leading the way. I am expecting this to follow through into Europe and US today.

Thanks cantana, banned him.

Interesting commentary by the McMillan Analysis Corporation comparing bottoms with the difference between the VIX - VOX. See attached. options.pdf