TinGull

Walter, still using some of 5p's methods dogpile, the rejection I watch for is a peek through the pivot area and then watch price. If price moves quickly back below, thats a rejection to me. At that point I just wait for the 5minute candle to close. If it closes below the pivot area it tried to break through, thats rejection enough for me to take the trade. The stop can be place 3 ticks above the high of the high bar and then ring the cash register....sometimes

I got short at 644. Rejection of VAL after initiative selling brought it below value and below the 3 day range action.

Like little beluga whales?

BigWallStreet, Do us a favor and post your "tips" on the board here for the rest of us to ponder. We've all done the same, and you've now called all of our systems "junk" (thanks by the way...great way to introduce yourself on a new message board). I'd really love to know what you've got up your sleeve. Since you say you "stole" yours, should be public knowledge anyhow. So please, do us a favor and share it, or stop posting this kind of nonsense on these boards.

Liquidity doesn't have any bearing on a markets reaction to the auction process. All you need is more than 2 participants to create varying aspects of value. The YM does respect the theories of Market Profile. It just needs to be treated more as a mindset rather than an actual indicator to trade off of. If one uses MP as simply a VAL and VAH to trade directly from, it won't work as well as if you think in terms of the auctioneer as price and the auction participants as the traders.

Real quickly...I have been watching the speed of price movement. When I enter a position, I want it to move in my direction rather quickly. If it slows down after I've entered and I'm up maybe 10 points, I'll just move my stop to BE, as that is a sign of weakness to me. When price prints fast, the herd is entering, and when price starts to slow down towards a known reference area (be it a previous days hi or lo, value area pivot or 30min OR hi or lo) then I start to think that as a beginning sign of weakness. If price cruises through the pivot, but closes the candle back inside the pivot, that to me is a rejection of price movement and I'll get out. Or...good place to get in the opposite direction. I look a lot at ATR of dailies as well as seeing spikes in price on the prior day to gauge a range for price the next day. If price has a really extended range to the upside...I won't look to initiate longs, as it's not hi odds. Looking for price getting stagnant when the YM has had a range of say 90-110 points is a good sign that pressure needs to be released and to me...shorts are hi odds trades that point.

Hey bf, what Im about to say helped me a ton, though it may be obvious to some. Take what I say with a grain of salt, cause Im still a newbie trader (at least I feel so). With that disclaimer out of the way...there were a couple of people who have helped me tremendously with some issues such as youre describing. My girlfriend and my coach. When I have a trade that Im in and it's going my way, and then I see some weakness creep in I'll get out ASAP. Weakness to me shows up as price stalling under a pivot, seeing a quick rejection of a significant area... And then when I get out, many times it continues going my way. Frustrating. When I get all in a tizzy about it, my girl will say: Did you do the best you could do with the information you had at that moment? Sure...I did. I saw weakness and got out. "well what are you crying for?!" she says. My coach told me...you can't see to the right of the chart, so why bother thinking about it. Think about what is happening right now. Lately this has become something that's gotten easier for me to do...not think. I had been letting some trades overmature and taking profit after the max peak had already occurred. Equally as frustrating for me. So now, I tell myself...I'll hold on until I see weakness. When that weakness comes in, there's a chance it'll continue up. How much do I want to risk to find out if it will? My coach recommended applying a Fib rule to my profits. Say I see weakness...how confident am I in the trend that is happening? Do I want to risk 62% of my current profits to find out if it'll continue? Maybe I feel somewhat confident and I want to risk only 50% of my profits to find out, or...maybe price has already made it's average range and the likelihood of it continuing aren't high, so I might risk only 38% of my profits to find out if it can continue. I figure, price is always advertising for buyers and sellers. If I'm in a move long and Im up say 30 points on the YM, and some small weakness comes into the market (advertising for sellers), is it likely that sellers will come out in force? If I dont think it's too likely, then I'll move my stop to BE+10. If I get taken out, then thats fine with me. I didn't lose any money on it, and my risk was defined. Then, if it takes me out to the tick and rises up another 80 points, I grab a BB gun and shoot a squi....errrr....jk. If that happens I just say...freakin Market! What could I have seen to anticipate this happening. Every experience, good or bad, is a learning experience. That, to me, makes every experience a good experience as I love learning. When something doesn't go the way I wanted it to (get out too soon or too late) then I go to the garden and tend to my veggies. I know I followed exactly what I set out to do and that's all I can ask for. I dont know if that helps you at all...but that sort of stuff is what helped me.

What she's saying here, I believe, is that markets themselves do not move unless traders trade. If there were no traders at all...just one day everyone said let's boycot trading...then the markets would not move. Markets don't move themselves, traders move the markets. When traders come in large numbers, that'll bring more in and move it even faster. So the above statement is somewhat false, but I see what you mean. Traders will trade because a market is moving, but the market is moving because traders are actually trading. Without the trades, the market would stand still.

What was harsh about that? I think they're really good points, and wasn't harsh at all. My coach will lay into me much worse than that (and I don't even think he really gets on me that much). Good points Dr. !

My view is that it was 'cause the rest of the world heard that I was going long after that selloff in February, and they didn't wanna mess with what I was doing. of course...only kidding. I think that people who are smart about real estate aren't putting their money into the stock market right now. They're buying real estate slowly. That's what I would do if I had the money anyways. I think it's probably more of a dollar undervaluation thing. But...I'm a musician by trade and have no clue about global economics...so take that with a grain of salt

I listen to Switchfoot, Anoushka Shankar, and Michael Franti (protest rock!)

I use the RTH range...its usually not that much different if at all.

I just personally don't like to have to use the PC for more than I have to, and with Campfire I could use it with my Mac...

Yea, everyone's scared to short the Dow...and when that happens it's got no where to go but up. It'll take a major crisis, I would think, to really shake things up.

Thanks David. Some real interesting insights you give.

Very nice and very true. The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is large that comes after the tremendous thunderstorm. I'm definitely feeling the rain subside and looking forward to that sunshine

This is pretty interesting. Wonder how much this costs...

I'd read MoM first. It gives you the nuts and bolts of what MP is all about, technically speaking.

Yes, your assumptions are correct.

Cool idea. This is one of the best things I've done for my trading. I've got a trading coach and he holds me accountable for everything. If I take a bad trade or something against my plan or whatever...I hear it. It's nice cause it really makes me think about my trades so I don't disappoint.

I found MoM to be a technical going over of Market Profile while MiP was more of a psychological reasoning as to why the profile is what it is. For me it helped solidify the mindset I needed to have to really understand that MP isn't just a couple of lines on a chart to trade off of, but a mindset that can apply to each bar of a chart. Some people may not get out of it what I did. Maybe perhaps they were more versed in Market Profile than I was. I think for someone starting out, both of these books provide great information on the Market Profile.

When you're done with that, grab Markets In Profile. That book should take things to yet another level for you.

Midknight...after enough screen time it gets easier to see when price can't go down further. If you have something like IRT or eSignal or Sierra...anything with playback, you can watch the TPO's in playback mode and start to get used to seeing how price can't go lower. Also...using the ATR on a 10 day period is usually a decent gauge to know whereabouts a bottom for the day *may* form and give you a good odds entry point.

Hi maildigger. Surf through this forum (the Market Profile one) and you'll find tons of good reads on how to apply the concepts of Market Profile into your trading. To me, Market Profile isn't just about the raw numbers for val, vah and poc...but its a mindset. Watching price advertising itself to buyers and sellers in order to move the market. While the value areas can give you a good idea of where price wants to be, when it starts hunting outside those areas is when you need to really be on guard. Check this forum and ask questions as you're learning. That's what we're here for.

Nice. Definitely keep me posted on how that works out.