Kiwi

I'd like to congratulate UrmaBlume for providing useful information and discussion with other traders and thus withdraw my suspicions and comments about his motivations in posting on the board. For the record - I guess I apologize

You might look up John Hill (Future Truth) as his first book gives a number of simple but profitable systems that he says are the basis for most of the good systems he has tested.

Yes, I was looking at Fulcrum's pictures from this page and noticed how smoothing plus the use of Heiken Ashi removed the edges - which does make staying in easy. But with the edges went support and resistance opportunities.

Just tested with Chrome 4.0.204 (a bit bleeding edge as well) and had the same issue. Actually James. Something that is a feature here is a negative from my view. When I log on again (i use the getnew function: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew) then pages I just exited don't show which makes it hard to get back to them (harder). Is there a search function that picks up the last 24 or 36 hours showing threads since last search above some line? I guess I can just use the front page if not. Also, I don't seem to be able to delete a post I've just left so the test post is still there. Deletion so that only mods can see what was left behind seems to me to be a function that results in tidier threads.

Twice this morning I've noticed that when I post I go back to the page but it doesnt show my post. If I press F5 it does. Now, I'm running firefox 3.7alpha so I couldn't guarantee its a site problem.

If hsi is too big then just use MHI. 1/5th size and arbed to be very close to hsi (1-2 tick miss/overs) with relatively little increase in slippage.

Urma uses the correct term when he describes Mark Jurik's work as smoothing. He's applying mathematical/electrical engineering techniques to the problem of smoothing data with the lowest lag and least overshoot. This is an interesting thing to do but its questionable if most will extract much profit from a faster smoother (mas are the common form of smoothers but it is unlikely that a JMA is strictly speaking and average). Better value will be achieved by spending time on understanding market structure and market action.

Find Dr Dean Ornish's book "The Spectrum" and start his program. He's research based (not the bs you often find in the health industry) and what you can achieve with moderate diet, exercise, stress relief and personal connection might motivate you to get more out of your next decade. Best of luck ... this is a lonely obsessed game if you let it be so.

You should do a search for Asia or Asian or After Hours. Or KOSPI HSI SPI STW NIKKEI There are several threads that summarize things pretty well here already.

. One thing you could consider if you really want to trade on a Mac is using Windows (Mac) 7 instead. Personally I'll stick with XP for another 5 or 10 years. Virus proof and a nice clean trading platform (1.5 second boot time each morning and no superfluous frills). .

It does feel quite a lot more responsive. And the graphics seem cleaner and more modern. Well done.

I think Anxious may be a choice of word that has too strong a meaning. Active might imply a more positive view. Although perhaps taking both views helps one to remove biasses in thinking. Genius, Blowfish. Reading taotree's post reminds me that when the king was naked the peasants and merchants clothed him depending on their own assumptions about what he might be wearing. Interestingly the OP decided to dump some of his pictures over at ET. The response was exactly what one would expect to such reused material. I renew my plea that should more threads be started we be treated to new pictures.

Yeah. Agreed. Off topic. I'm not going to convince db any more than he will convince me that Wyckoff is the only way. And importantly we shouldn't be doing it in this thread. This thread is about Brook's way so if anyone wants to debate the unprovable then we should take it outside. Start a new thread on bar completion vs etc etc. Personally I won't join because after reading db's reply to my point above I realized that his Map wouldn't get "it" and this was a good thing. What makes the market tradable is that there are so many different maps pushing it up and down. Rock on!

db this is a yes and a no situation. I would say that unless you had developed a real feel for the market you should wait for the signal rather than anticipate it (hence the no bit). Its surprising (or maybe not) how many newbies anticipate signal completion and are wrong much more often than they expect (they didn't really test "taking it before the bar closes or the bar breaks" and it isn't what they deceive themselves into expecting by selective perceptual distortions). With a bar break setup such as Brooks once the bar is broken the the bar break is important (like horizontal snr) because lots of people can see it. They read it as "the retracement is probably over (unless it retests of course)." It is a good signal for a small player because they can fill at a reasonable price after the break occurs. For a large participant it isn't though so big players have to buy as the retracement moves down or in anticipation of the break. Thats the beauty of Brooks approach - it only works if you're small. So the idea of using a very common timeframe for bar break trading is useful. On ES that timeframe might be 5. On HSI it might be significantly shorter. In some tradables 1 tick is the valid break. In others it might be a larger number and making that distinction can be the difference between success and failure.

On topic: We keep seeing regurgitated advertising charts posted in thread after thread. Same ones again and again. It would seem reasonable to expect that we would see new charts from time to time. Evolution in action.

I found this post on "Re: Trading with Market Profile" interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Topic Of The Month August, 2009"

I found this post on "Re: The Evolution of Market Profile Theory" interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Topic Of The Month August, 2009"

I've watched the dow and es overnight. The motivator for both price and perceived value is usually what's happening in the Asian Markets (represented by Nk, HSI, Shanghai) followed by what's happening in Europe (represented by DAX and ESTX say). The puppy is following its overnight masters and little volume is involved because most ES/EYM people are asleep.

I've been fairly critical in this thread so I should probably share something. I use elements of MP/AMT in my thinking about the market. I'm not sure if this will help anyone but when looking for a trade position my thinking goes like: - what's the trend (higher highs and lows, moving through clusters, stopped at higher timeframe s&r)? - where would people perceive value in a retracement (short time frame clusters can help here)? - where would price trap some people who naively entered too early and thus catch some stops to improve liquidity? - where would price trap earlier stops from the last thrust of the market? - if I was the "big" guy and had been buying value to build up a position and I felt it shouldn't go further or others would pile on momentum against my position where should I defend my position? Not much sophistication required; more an analysis of current and earlier swings and knowing the contracts that you trade. Also its thinking that can be applied in any time frame to evaluate risk, reward, and probability. FWIW.

Personally, trading AsiaPac hours, I probably trade your after hours. Futures contracts worth considering are: HSI and MHI (my bread and butter) STW (taiwan on SGX) Nikkie and minis (on both Osaka and SGX) SPI (Aussie S&P) KOSPI (especially the options, pretty noisy index) EuroUSD and USDJPY

I really like that too. So I should thank Urma for creating an interesting thread rather than worrying about whether he's trying to sell something or not.

1. a person or thing that indicates. 2. a pointing or directing device, as a pointer on the dial of an instrument to show pressure, temperature, speed, volume, or the like. 3. an instrument that indicates the condition of a machine or the like. 4. an instrument for measuring and recording variations of pressure in the cylinder of an engine. 5. Chemistry. a. a substance, as litmus, that indicates the presence or concentration of a certain constituent. b. a substance often used in a titration to indicate the point at which the reaction is complete. 6. Ecology. a plant, animal, or species that indicates, by its presence in a given area, the existence of certain environmental conditions. I too like VolumeJedi's view that price is also an indicator. In turning things on their heads we gain an opportunity for an insight. On the same basis so is a TPO chart. Or a Volume Chart. Or a bar. Or this point or that of a Moving Average or a RSI. What I don't like is the pretentious BS that we see on trading boards: my toy is better than your toy. And how often is it phrased as "my toy is pure and your toy is an indicator." Get over it. TPO charts summarize price action over time in an attempt to indicate where value lies (or what you read from it). They are indicators. As are my bar charts and volume profiles. For the record: my swing's are better indicators of the edge of value than your value areas (I define here, to make myself look better than you, that better equals allowing more precise entries with greater rr )

Yes I would call a candlestick an "indicator." It takes real price action and summarizes it. It is the map and not the territory. Similarly an average (take single dots of the line) is an indicator. So is market profile. I don't feel even slightly misguided. And who is it who would have guided me there?

I think there are two reasons that make sense (whether they are optimal or not). 1. If you program elements of what you do the short cut of an indicator is sometimes much easier than trying to define the price movements in software. 2. You say "if a trader gets to the point where (s)he has a good grasp of how markets move." I think there is a huge gap for many between grasping and internalizing in such a way that action is compelled. For example I don't "see" some actions in real time - although I'm planning to work on one of them this weekend. An indicator crossing X might well push the button hard enough that the trader overcomes perceptual blindness. 2 would help explain why newbies like indicators but also why some stick with one or two that help them with their perceptions even years after they might well be able to drop them. For the record, I am addicted to a couple of mas that help me see where others in the market perceive value in a pullback.

I actually regard Market Profile as an indicator. Less of an indicator is a price bar. Why? Because indicators were almost all invented as a way of summarizing some key elements of the nature of market movement to make them easier to understand/see in real time/use/mechanize (pick yours). MP makes it easier to see the building rotations and excursions from value. MAs make it easier to see potential value. Price bars remove the clutter of every tick to show summarized movement. Stochs and %Rs show how far price has pushed in a X bar range and so on ... Each thing has value if used as designed or sometimes more if used in a contrary manner. What's wrong with summarizing? You lose information. And you may confuse the map with the territory.