86834

Just incase anyone is interested.... http://868347.blogspot.com/

Momentum and S/R goes hand in hand, to be able to use s/r levels effectively then you need to be able to gauge momentum and how price reacts around those levels. To illustrate my point, attached to this post is a trade that i took today. The chart is a 15mins chart and the resistance that i'm using for this example is highlight in red. Now generally you want to be trading with momentum on your side, so it helps identifying the areas where momentum is likely to pick up. So when the market is chopping back and forth between support and resistance levels, momentum, depending on the size of the range won't be at it's best. However when a key area in the market is breached then one expects an increase in momentum. Trading these areas where the momentum increases will help keep you out of the chop. On the same chart you can see how once the red resistance line was broken to the upside it then acted as support, then once we were near the end of the session this level (813) was breached. As a result one expects an increase in downward momentum. Trading with momentum is always advisable regardless of trading style.

any particular reason why you're just taking 1pt per trade? Just wondering that's all.... Just some advice... A few scalpers that i have known have found in the past that they would have massive up days and massive down days and their pnl would yoyo. I don't know how you're trading to scalp these 1pts but if you find this happens to you, and you're not looking at the other time frames, then it might be an idea to keep them up, as they are great for letting you know when to trade and when not to trade. This way you can keep yourself out of the crap. For example my last trade of the day on ES was short 812.75 which i held. On the larger times frames you can see the importance of the break below 813. The hour or so before this break lower was a bit crap and was time to be sitting on your hands. Like i say i don't know how you trade, so this might be completely irrelevant to you, but if you find that you tend to loose on choppy days then try it out. It doesn't matter what your style is, but there are some basics that are applicable across all styles. One of them being knowing when and when not to trade. Boost!

http://www.tradingcomputers.com - where i got mine from

If you're wanting to use mp on eurex then i personally would only recommend using it on fixed income products (i trade a few eurex products), but that's just my opinion As for MP times, i use from 7am to 10pm GMT and i use only tpo profiles. Because of the long trading hours of eurex, as you are probably aware, many eurex products trade in two sessions... the morning for europe, then the afternoon when the US markets open. A few traders i know like to use profiles set for 7am - 12 lunch. Personally it's not my craic, as i like to see the whole session, but you might find something useful in it...

forgot to mention... if you're in the UK http://www.cclonline.com is the cheapest place to get hardware as far as i know. Pretty much where i get all my stuff from, altho my computer i got from http://www.tradingcomputers.com/ These guys specialize in multi monitor systems for traders and you can have a computer built to go up to 12 monitors.

I've got 6 24in widescreen LG Flatrons. I pretty much have all the charts up that you mentioned too as i trade an array of eurex products and have multiple times frames up for each as well as a news feed. At the moment tho i'm being pretty lazing and just trading ES as the volume on eurex is pretty crap at the moment, and plus i just can't be arsed getting up so damn early, so i'm actually only using 3 of my monitors...

Always good in hindside, but trying to pick bottoms and tops isn't the way forward. When learning to trade, my mentor always said to me 'don't try and be the first person to buy, and don't try to be the first person to sell....' sorry, i just read the post and wanted to make the comment as it's something a lot of newbies try to do.

We've just switched from CQG over here because of the problems we've been having with their gateway.... I've noticed the time it takes to fill some orders...

Hey, anyone using PATS? If so, how do you turn off the auto-center on the reflector? It's got 10 of us on my end completely stumped, and trying to get hold of someone at PATS to tell us how is turning out to be a mission to say least. Cheers...

another thing i want to add as well, is that in my opinion, and through my own observations, the retail trader who just uses a candle chart and a few indicators for example tend to try and be a jack of all trades... What i mean here is that they come up with a chart pattern or 'system', then just apply it to any market, normally a handful of them. Now i'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but if you take the professional career route in the city and end up in a trading team you will specialise and become a master (so to say) of what you've been assigned to, and you will learn everything to do with that market. Once they feel that you're competent they'll let you trade another related market alongside, and your access to the markets and size increase gradually as they seem fit. At this point everyone is probably thinking i'm way off the topic of 'all you need is a chart', but my argument is, yeah right here right now you can be making some money with just a chart, but your trading situation WILL change. Markets will change, your size and access to captial will change etc Who's gonna be more prepared for that change.... the person using just a chart or the person who learnt how to implement other factors into their trading? It's not just about making money this month with an indicator, it's about being able to stay making money for the years to come so you can support yourself, your family and forfill your own personal obligations. Some people who trade just charts will last, and some pro's won't, but for every david beckham that makes it, there's a million people that don't, so in my opinion if you want to make it, you're best off loading the dice in your favour and give yourself as much chance as possible, and for me this means fully learning and understand the market that you're trading and all the possible factors that may effect you. My 2 cents.

Like i've said in previous posts i never ment to offend anyone, was just stating the realities. Yeah trading a chart pattern during the day on a 5 lot can work for you, but as your size increases you WILL reach a point, as has been discussed, where that will not work anymore, or you'll having extreme difficulties. This is when a lot of other stuff such as fundamentals start coming into play. Everyone has their own goals, but in my opinion the trader that can understand and implement all of this into their trading is the better more skilled trader. The way i see it is that you're promoted to your own level of incompetence via size. If you're competent and skilled enough at your current size then your clip size will be increased and so on and so on, untill you reach a point where your size no longer increases because you're no longer competent enough to handle larger size above you. (unless you've got to the point where the market is not liquid enough for the size you want to trade) As for the retail non professional trader in my mind who has less support around them... they're sat there trading, up size, trading more, up size and so on and so on then they reach their level of imcompetence because they don't understand all the other factors that need to be considered when trading with size. At this point anything can happen in my opinion, they could work it out and learn to survive, or physiological rot can set in because they're not 'hitting' it anymore and then they're screwed.... just my 2 cents Boost!

I found this post on "Re: All You Need... is a Chart" interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Topic Of The Month January, 2009"

top post mate, you explained it a lot better than what i did lol i remember when i first started learning and was in my training period, i took what my trading buddy said to me about watching how prices trade completely the wrong way, and went through this little phase of trying to lean on large bids/offers. I soon learnt my lesson on that lol... What smwinc has said (very well) was what i was trying put across (very badly) when i said your trading will only go so far (in my opinion), because trading a 5 lot is completely different to trading in multiples of 100lots. It's not just a case of seeing your support level and buying 300lots. Developing a nautral feel for the market, understanding orderflow on the book, and understanding the fundamentals of the market your trading, inter linked market relationships and so on is (in my opinion and in my experience) essential. As for liquidity... tell me about it... the good times are behind is now. Used to be so easy - the schatz went bid 5 ticks so you went bid on the bund and got cash back Boost

Neuro-linguistic programming

A 1 hour chart of december. Same craic..... as you can see these levels form very well and are very consistent. As i've said before, in my opinion european markets (exlcude the dax because i think it can be a bit too crazy) are very good markets to trade technically. It's very simple stuff, and it's very very consistent. So if you're a pure tech jocky then check europe out.

A 5min bar chart of intraday S/R levels that consistently develop and provide consistent solid trades when in employing trading retests. (the full size chart on the first screen on the left) For my previous post.

Also another thing that i want to add about using pure techs. From my experience (my experience and my OPINION, not saying it's right or wrong) if you love trading just pure techincal analysis then eurostoxx is a lovely market for doing that because it trades very technically, and in my OPINION, is a lot easlier to trade from a technical point of view than american markets such as the emini's. My fav way to trade is to wait for resistence to break and to act as support and visa versa for shorting. Many beautiful trades throughout the day in eurostoxx employing this method alone.

finally someone who understands what i've been trying to say. The main market that i trade is the bund and schatz as these are the markets that i learnt how to trade prop trading. Smwinc hit the nail on the head, when the figures come out is where you make the big money, i've explained before in another post that you don't trade your full clips size on every trade. For example at the moment for prop traders, the type of clip sizes knocking about for bund traders are 400 - 500lots (used to be in the 1000's). Your technical trades off S/R levels and general trades will be executed with 100 - 150 lots, but when rate figures are out, or other figures, thats when you unload the full 500lots into the market. As for whoever said playing the figures have nothing to do with fundementals and it's will confuse newbies, well yeah just looking at the figures 10mins before they get released and saying i'll buy if it comes out higher, sell if it comes out lower isn't very fundamental, more of a gamble. However all the research that you put in before hand about that particular figure is fundamentals. For example following everything trichet says at ecb press conferences, and making notes to see if he implies anything, or if a usually hawkish member is making dovish comments, spending hours going through all the ecb meeting minutes everyone month and analyising what has been said to see where they're implying etc........... THIS is the fundamentals that i'm talking about, so when that figure comes out you pretty much know what people are expecting and how they're gonna react. When figures such as rate cuts come out i know exactly what i'm going to do whatever they cut, and when it comes overs the wires i act quickly because of this. This is the fundamentals and it does give you a massive edge, and yeah it makes a massive difference to your trading performance because, as mentioned before, this is when you get to unload your full size, make that 250k that makes your month. In previous posts when saying i doubt many people will be trading in 7-10yrs, this is what i believe, and it's widely accept that people in this game either never get there or don't last long, but i never said anyone in particular won't be, and i never said i would still be above everyone else here implying i'm better. I might be, might not be, time will tell. I've never implied that anyone or myself is better or that anyone is completely wrong. All i've done is said how it is on the otherside where the grass is a different shade of green. I've never implied, or ment to imply that i'm the master trader of the universe, like i said, i'm just saying how things are on the otherside, and this is how it's done over here. Like i said, i've never once posted 'you're wrong' As stated already i trade fixed incomes, mainly eurex fixed incomes, this is my bread and butter. The fixed income market is a very news and rumour driven market and it is important to understand the fundamentals to max your opportunites in the market such as this. Without the fundamentals you will never be able to profit (consistently) from such trades as trading outrights on figures or spreading calander contracts. If after all your research of ecb meetings etc etc, if the overall pictures is that for 2009 there's more room for rates cuts, employment is going to get worse, and so on and so on, when spreading this IS going to help you decided if you're going to go long or short on the forward contract. Everyone here is acting like i've stood here and done 'you're all wrong and stupid pesants!' I haven't at all, like i said all i've done is said how the grass is on the other otherside. Many non professional traders tend to just trade outrights, fair enough, but when employing different trading styles then fundamentals really are useful. For example another type of trading that i like to do on my own personal account to trade seasonal spreads in commodites, which involves lots of fundamentals. How i trade the markets i trade... Bund - technical analysis, market profile, order flow, fundamentals - i trade outrights and calander spreads in this markert, used to do butterfly trades too, but they're not that good anymore in the bund Schatz - techical analysis, market profile, order flow, fundamentals. Once again i trade outrights and calander spreads Eurostoxx - techical analysis, order flow, outrights only here and i swing trade this market 10yr T notes - same as the bund and schatz S&P emini - when i first started to trade on my own, this is the market i use to follow a lot, moved to fixed income because i stated before, this is what i learnt to trade professionally. However i do from time to time still go back and have a play on it because i like scalping this market. This is usually when i post on the forums because the eminis are more widely followed here. I use order flow and market profile to scalp 2-4 pts on each trade and have around 10 trades. Normally done before US lunch session. Many of these scalps i've posted live on these forums. Seasonal Spreads in commodites as stated before is something i do on my own account. Like i said, i'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just saying how it is, and i'm glad someone else who sounds they took a simaler route has stepped in to back it up. There are many markets that i've never traded before, and i never was said i was a master of all. For example i have no experience trading oil, so don't know too much about that market. I've never traded gold, but i'm interested in that market, and as i've stated in a other posts... i feel that for us traders, the future of our survial in the markets lay in trading over the counter markets such metals, so this is another area that i'm looking into and working out how them markets trade. I don't know any trader trader that knows everything about every market.... I'll say it again, just saying how the trading is on the otherside.... makes no difference to me what you think

my expectation is a lot lower than yours? - don't fantasize mate. I stand by the fact that if you were that good then you would of taken a professional route. I already said i take december and half of jan off, so for your short memory, no i won't be there on monday.

yeah i posted my scalps, when i was trading a few days from home... and how many of them live scalps that i posted for 2 -3 pts on ES did i take home, quite a lot... I never said unless you're making millions you're a faliure as a trader. I've repeatlaly said this wasn't the case in my posts, anyone can make millions if their conistent enough because its all about size traded when it comes to how many zero's are on the end of the pnl. What i've said over and over in my posts which you just don't seem to get is why just use one method when you can use both and load the dice more in your favour, but you seem way too hung up on some issues to see this... I obviously hit a sore spot there with the comment about if you're making a full time living out of trading, so that's you're beef not mine. It was a valid point, if you're not, then you're not really in a postion to make statements like 'all you need is a chart'. I didn't say you wasn't making money or you were making money or anything, but the way you've reacted, to me says otherwise. So at this point i'll leave this discusion because this is comepletely pointless. Good luck - i hope you get a t shirt. edit to say, i'm going to send a link to this thread to everyone in my email address book so they can have a good laugh....

also for the title all you need is a chart... Firewalker, a question that's straight to the point. Are you meeting all your trading objectives and making a solid full time living from trading financial markets? I am and beyond. If you're not then 'All you need is a chart' is a bold statment which, in my opinion, you don't have the right to make. I say this because you pointed to other people like wasp as examples of people who have done well with no fundementals. I take my hat off to wasp and others and shake their hand, but why didn't you point to yourself? The truth can be incoveniant... edit to say, i'm not poking fun or having a go - i'm just presenting the reality that a lot of the debates on internet trading forums are pointless because a lot of the people debating still have to go there and get the t shirt...

For the first part about more non professionals going bust than professionals... No i don't have figures to hand, but i would say it's safe to say that more non professionals have gone bust over the past year than professionals. The ones that blow in millions and billions get noted. Your fresh meat in the market that blows in a 100k account doesnt. As for the getting by bit, yeah a couple of million in this game is just getting by in my opinion for a very average trader in the city. Analysits get more than that...., but the couple of million a year wasn't what i ment by getting by. Take the money factor out of the equation, and look at the trading itself. Who grows up wanting to be just average? That was my point. As per maxing profits per time invested, that really is a personal thing. If i was doing what you were doing then i wouldn't consider myself to be maxing my prfots per time invested, and visa versa, if you were doing what i do, you'd feel the same way. As for seeing proof of fundementals working, the problem with this debate (which in my opinion has always been and always be) A pure tech jocky can post a chart up on a forum with some indicators and go 'there.l... and you can pretty much find an example of anything happening on a chart and say 'look there's the proof'. Fundamentals by their nature are a lot more complex and harder to understand, hence why a lot of people don't bother, and there's lots of people out there selling crap technical indicators and pulling down the pants on the new guys (yeah same for FA, but more TA scams) For someone to explain the fundementals would take hours worth of posting to get just one point across and a lot of people still won't get it, or choose to accept it. You can automate a fully technical system very easily, but doing so with fundamentals is a complete mind field, hence why i said it's an art. Yeah if you want to be average then fair enough, stick soley to one method, but markets change and the majority of people will not last, it's a widely accepted fact. Like i say, i bet the majoirty of people right here in this forum will not be trading full time in 7-10yrs, and it won't be because they made a load and have chosen to retire. The odds are heavily stacked against every single person in the market, and what i'm saying is that you should take the time to learn the fundamentals, which will help to load the dice more in your favour when it comes to lasting in the markets. As for the lists, i said it was a crappy example Most of them lists are a load of rubbish... but can be entertaining to read.

true, but a lot lot lot more non professionals have gone belly up in the last year. I think by nature we will never agree on what defines a good successful trader, and the skills that are needed to achieve this, because we're coming from different trading backgrounds and trading mentalties. To me, from the various posts on this thread, it strikes me personally that people are happy just getting by. The people who are making money have a little something that works for them. Fair enough, like i said, more power to you. However for me, and i can safely say for pretty much all the other traders i know personally and have worked with in the past, it's not about just making money - the money aspect of things got left behind a long time ago.... it's about being the best, pushing yourself and striving to be ahead of the game, using everything at your disposal to come out on top. To me it's a war, a battle of wills, minds, power and i love it with ever ounce of my heart. In my opinion the competition pushes you to new levels that you'll never achieve on your own, and in this world fundamentals play a massive role. I know it's a crappy example but if you look at them top 100 traders under 30, or any top traders lists... how many of them are just sat at home? Why just get by and be happy just being another brick in the wall when you can be the best? This is all just my personal opinion and how i personally view trading, and how the others around me fell too. I hope it gives an insight into why i feel so strongly that fundementals are as equally as important as technicals. I'm not looking to fall out with anyone over this so likes just agree to disagree, becuase i've got bigger problems to worry about, like how big my gut has got over the past month

There you go again with a conservitive bias.... I'm not going to explain how to trade these figures because there's nothing that you're gonna learn from me typing a post, and there's no simple clean cut answer that you always seem to be after. Skill and experiance.... it's an art, yeah you don't want to hear it and think it's a cop out, but thats just the fact. All you're going to do anyway is try and disprove anything that is said Thats why you will only go so far sitting at home trading on your own. If you want to learn about stuff like this then try and get yourself into a trading enviroment where you can learn from the best. Either that or accept reality mate.