Bearbull

Db, To keep the Wyckoff forum alive, Nice hinge formation on Nasdaq on Friday, and a profitable breakout I prefer the breakout of the hinge on increasing vol. If you traded, what are your thoughts/comments on entry and trade management.

A support line is drawn as previously at this price demand appeared, however just because the line is there does not mean price is going to hold, yes it will be tested, buyers will appear but will supply is better quality then it will overwhelm the buyers, that is all, it is not a question of whether S/R worked this time or did not work IMHO;)

There are no pattern trading per se in Wyckoff, it is a study in market and trader behavior which can manifest repeatedly in certain patterns and the principles operate in any timeframe. Also there is no such jargon as smart/dumb money and for that matter any cutesy terms:crap: once again just refer to all the material posted on the wyckoff forum, it is all there in plain language.

Great market for trading in these conditions. Wonder if you traded yesterday, ideal setups via the 20ema/pattern .

Good post, very much in keeping with the essence of Wyckoff Methodology and consistent with many of the other posts in the Wyckoff forum. Infact Dbphoenix has illustrated this quite beautifully on 5sec charts.

The laws of supply/demand, effort/result, cause/effect as outlined by Wyckoff are immutable and apply to all markets, all charts, any timeframe, as to why two traders interprete a chart differently is not Wyckoff's problems, it depends entirely on how much effort and research they have each put in to study the principles and develop the skills to read and interpret price action and in the right context. The price spread and volume gain importance in Wyckoff as the price approaches relevant support/resistance levels. Willaims studied some of this stuff and came up with Volume Spread Analysis (spread of the price bar) and is now being branded around as something profoundly cosmic and new, hence we have 300 pages of illustrations and still little understanding of consistent application for the signals vary depending on which timeframe chart one is looking at (compare any 30min, 15min, 5min or 1min or 5sec chart) On the other hand Wyckoff price action is independent of the timeframe. This crucial factor is totally misunderstood.:crap:

You really need to take lessons in logic, as you obviously have little apprehension of how to apply it. Plus learn to examine each sentence carefully before jumping up and responding like a kid. For a start , go and study wyckoff material on the wyckoff forum , how many times do we have to point out to you, that wyckoff has showed how markets work (laws of supply/demand etc) and how traders interact and how price action via price/vol gains relevance at relevant support/resistance, trendlines etc. All this is presented in a systematic/methodical manner by Wyckoff in his course and one of the chapters has been freely given by Dbphoenix in the Wyckoff forum. Next you have been told that some of the concepts have been borrowed from Wyckoff and layers over with unnecessary jargon, this jargon is not from wyckoff but invented by VSA gurus and can be considered as crock and not the original source. Simple Hope you get it now:crap:

Agree with all your comments, very pertinent, no method can predict the market, it is all about context and probability, Wyckoff has clearly stated that. All that is being pointed out is that VSA so called methodology does not exist, have to own up to the fact that it is nothing but concepts borrowed from Wyckoff and trumped up with jargon with claims that it is something totally new brought to the attention of the world by TG gurus to track smart/dumb money. This thread is about VSA- crock or not, if somebody is bordering on the opinion that it could be crock, that logically the onus is on the person who is claiming it is not so and the only way is to come up with evidence, via a consistently viable method. Wasp has for instance posted his strategy based on trendlines and support/resistance( which incidentally Wyckoff made extensive use of,) and then then opened up a thread on Live FX trades. Extensive discussions on no demand, hidden upthrusts, failed tests, end of rising market on 300pages could have been averted by opening up a similar thread.

Statement by Tasuki is totally logical, the thread is about VSA, crock or not? Tasuki is suggesting that he has observed 300pages on this VSA with countless examples of bar by bar hindsight analysis, infact Sebastian Manby is a wizard at this, he came for a post or two claiming he will be putting up live trades from now on, that was a few months back, well where are they, instead he is busy running a VSA club ($99/month). Now Tasuki and for that matter anybody else has perfect right to express their opinion on this thread. Tasuki is bordering on the opinion that VSA is mostly crock. Now if anybody wants to challenge that, he or she has got to come up with some evidence that it is not crock. Simple. There is no question of proving or not proving. If you are happy and profitable using VSA, fine, but to engage in any discussion here, it is imperative to take up the challenge. VSA is not a methodology, most of the central concepts are extracted from Wyckoff and then layered with unnecessary jargon for marketing purposes. Some of us have attempted to steer newcomers to the original Wyckoff for gaining knowledge on how markets work and how traders interact and then go on to construct strategies/tactics to exploit any recurring patterns they observe through their own effort and reseach and thus saving them thousands of dollars. However it is surprising that VSA followers almost condone the exorbitant marketing by TG , infact in one of the posts it was mentioned that if they did not beef it up with jargon , how would they be able to market their products;) In other words traders are supposed to feel sorry for these guys and part with their savings so the TG gurus can make out a modest living, give us a break:crap:

Thanks pipMonster, o.k so you are taking your entry signals from the 60min chart and managing the trade via 15min, That 60min bar breaking the uptrend line is one heck of bar with high of 180.77 and low of 179.08, Where did you place your stoploss. Do alpari offer free charting on demo. even if their trading platform is not used. How does Oanda platform compared to other you may have employed.

Same problem here on TL, when anything is typed in search the following message flashes: "Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded. Please push the back button and reload the previous window." It does not matter whether you log out or log back in, it is once again the same.

Did you trade off 60min chart pipMonster, even bars on 5min chart reflect 50-100pips, talk about this market being volatile:) What was the reason for exit, was it a trendline break, maybe a post with a chart would help.

Appreciate your response Wasp, You are right, nothing beats experience, have been around the block myself with all the indicators, patterns, fib clusters,pitchfork etc. Wyckoff placed the same emphasis, support/resistance, demand/supply, trendlines, price/vol. There is nothing esoteric or labyrinthine about the methodology. Look forward to your trades on GBPJPY, am sure they will be highly educational.

No problems, just curious to learn more about the market that I want to get into. Presume you also don't pay attention to any forthcoming news releases which in index futures could be lethal.

In you experience what is the fundmental reason for better moves on JPY than say on GBP/$ or GBPEURO. perhaps WASP can also chime in.

Like your style of trading Wasp, simple (not to say it is easy;) ) but highly effective. I have been making attempts to steer newcomers to simple way of illustrating price action for a while now, Wyckoff kept it simple enough (Dbphoenix also made a concerted effort) , but the mere mention of Wyckoff make a few in here breakout into rashes, mostly those who love to engage in bar by bar analysis and bamboozle with lots of jargon:) Anyway you have aroused my interest in GBPJPY, have no particular expertise in this field, have ony dabbled some in GBP/$ but for most part the Index futures have kept me busy enough. o.k so your strategy revolves around noting support/resistance levels on 4hr charts and then zooming into lower time frames for entry/exit with the aid of trendlines. What is the minimum TF you go to, 15min/30min, Also have you experimented with say, moving averages, oscillators etc for fine tuning entry/exit. Do you look at Volume at all, realise the real vol is not there on forex, however folks do take into account tick vol.

Well BF, this all just confirms what we have been reiterating all along, the laws of Supply/Demand, Effort/Result, Cause/Effect as illustrated by Wyckoff nearly 100yrs back remain immutable, however they reveal how traders interact in the marketplace and are not setups. Traders have to put in time and effort to construct strategies/tactics to exploit those interactions. They can accomplish this task with simple approaches and make it complicated with layers of jargon. Have to admit that I have not read Bo Yoder's work, but have observed the pattern with 20ema manifestating time and again on most markets and all timeframes for over 12years now but as is stated it is a simple setup but not easy to implement as it requires immense patience and discipline. Folks would rather resort to complex ways of illustrating price action and esoteric ways of engaging in bar by bar analysis;)

Meant to type in 11.30 bar after breakout of 1502:)

Not yet, 1502 was identified as a resistance, price broke through that and retraced, the trend is up, hence entry around 1502 is a valid setup. From then on it is all about managing the trade. Some observations: 1. Price/vol action during lunchtime period is not very reliable for interpretation. 2. The wide range bar around 11.30 indicates buying pressure, however after the retracement, the half hearted price bounce suggests buyers are not that desparate, price could easily drift in a sideways range until traders return from their lunchbreak and in the meantime break the trendline after forming a lower high. 3. After lunch, prices could be then be driven higher or lower depending on buying and selling pressure at that time.

What graphics card have you got installed? Did you have to change those.

1. "To trade in the direction of a move until it signals it isn't willing to go in that direction", what method is employed to determine this on a consistent basis? 2. There would be no confusion, if 2 examples are posted with entry and exit. That would surely end all this lengthy discussions, and less to read, afterall a picture is worth thousand words.......

o.k here is chart of GBPJPY Lets assume a trade was taken in the price zone indicated by the first red arrow, then say the exit was at the double top formation, 2nd arrow depending on how the trade was managed, although there was no way knowing the market would get there. Now lets say the 2nd arrow provided an Entry, how do we know in advance it is going to reach the level at the 3rd arrow and unless a very wide stoploss is implemented the trade is sure going to be stopped out.

Guys it would be a lot easier to follow this discussion if there were some illustrations to go with it IMHO:)