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Hello Does anybody trading this pair actively at Sidney/Tokio Overlap ? or trading it at all?? Thanks

Index futures are pure supply and demand proxies That's completely true and it's one of the reasons some traders doesn't like index futures. It makes them playing on a jumpy zero-sum game. On stocks/EFT's etc. you migth be trading against institution/position traders/investors who doesn't care too much about couple of cents here and there. That makes the whole scene smoother. I trade both futures and EFT's (QQQQ) No personal preference here but as I stated before, some traders do.

You must know what's the leading index first. Sometimes is the dow, sometimes is NQ. I prefer when NQ leads the pack to trade QQQQ, but you can get good trades out of the Dow against the cubes. If you're trading a sigle stock out of the futures, is a recipe for disaster on the long run IMHO. QQQQ has plenty of liquidity intraday and it's a lot cheaper than Spyder's. Cheers

You can quit once you're in profit. There's nothing wrong with it. Remember, it's your money on the line. Markets will be there next morning. But if you still think you can stretch it out a little bit more here's some questions for you. 1) do you scacle out postions? 2) Do you trail stops? 3) Do you have a daily target you want to achieve? 4) is going back to the market affects your money management control? 5) what type of market conditions are required for you to do a re-entry? 6) Do you use market/limit orders for entry? 7) are you totally sure your technicals are aligned as well as they did on your first entry?? 8) when you said the first trade of the day..is that like at the opening, half morning etc??

"the secret to trading by science is the ability to recognize the changing market conditions and apply the correct strategy for it" It sounds discretionary to me Listen folks, this topic is very much like the never-ending story about scaling out, stop-loss, indicators, etc. It becomes a soap opera after a while. Lucky for us, this forum is a well-organized one and traders do respect each to the max. First you need to have a clear definition of what is science - and what is art trading wise. When I started I was sure I had this defined real good. As I mentioned in my earliest post, market proved me wrong. If you have a system/strategy that works and adapts to this ever-changing environment, congratulations. If is an art or is a science - who cares?? does it makes you money consistently? I learned that trading becomes very much like a fingerprint for every trader. I have a friend who utilizes MACD and price and it works pretty good for him. I tried once and got screwed up. Everything lies in the eyes of the beholder. I have an open mind about everything. You have a bot that spits dollar bills everytime the market opens, I am willing to try (paper trade of course) I have never make any indicator work in live trading. But that's me, doesn't mean traders outhere are not making money off indicators. Whatever system you use, mechanical, science, art, etc. Please bear in mind that all of them has it's limitations. Learn when your system is telling the truth and when is giving you a wrong signal. In all markets, at all time frames, there will be periods of accumulation and distribution. On whatever your use art/science/astrology/tea leaves etc. would be nice to train your system to spot these periods so you can act accordingly when the market distributes. At least this is how I trade. Systems/strategies...art or science...are just road maps. You still need to drive the car.

Thanks Dog So I assume , If I'm short for instance, that the upper band will be my mark for trailing stop rigth?? What would be a good setup for the bands on a five minutes charts? 10/1.5?

Just a quick question Will Keltner channels work on this strategy?? Thanks

James so you mean that the japanese markets are more stable than wall street?? That's interesting any restrictions like shorting etc? I have to take a close look on the Nikkei. Are you trading the Nikkei or just prop?

I personally won't touch corporate bonds for daytrading. Very risky business unless you have plenty of cashand willing to sacrifice profit to cash then at market. Some brokers won't even look at them. I really don't know what you're looking for but if you need to park some cash, I'll put some on treasury notes and hedge my position on futures to smooth the yield curve.

I've said this to many people: My job in the markets is not to make money but to preserve my capital. As a reward for doing a good job, I recieve a compensation. I don't know what strategy you use but here's an advice Some traders place orders based on whatever they use and they forget that , in the market there's something called "key levels" which are monitored constan constantly by professional and institutional traders.They pose as gatekeepers on these levels, to gun all the resting(stops) and market orders they can get. I know you have mentioned the emotional side and lack of discipline as your weakness, but I suggest to you to look at where is that you're placing your orders. Also, need to check if you're taking into account the recent increase on volatility. Make sure you make adjustments on your money managent rules against the amount of leverage you're using. If necessary, lower your gear. Fly low for a while. You have lost confidence. That's big. But it's ok, you'll get it back. Cheers

When I started I use a scientific approach on my trading. The market proved to me otherwise. Markets are so dynamic that it's impossible to mold it or cast it into any shape, size or form. But I guess this is something you must learn by experience. Just look at he the floor. Who the hell is gonna make money there when you have so many people pushing themselves around screaming at the top of the lungs? What "Scientific approach" you will use??? none I tell you me and my "scientific approach" got crushed the first 1/2 hour I started on the pit back in the day.

Matrix spreadsheet I did it for a long time when I switched to electronic trading. Back then banks and brokers were something to watch as they normally gave you a head start on a move. As the matrix moves by tick very much like the tape, I normally had a gut feeling on the speed on the matrix. Some people watch and wait for a rate of change on the matrix, to me that's lagging. James I am curious. You're looking to watch the stocks to anticipate a move on the Nikkei. Would you care to elaborate a little more? I trade the other way around using NQ(leading) as a mirror image on the cubes (qqqq) I mean, without compromise anything as I know you're trading with prop firm now. Thanks

James Have you ever try a screen based on sectors?? That could give you a head start before a big move

I am sorry guys I've been trying to logon and for some reasons I just can't at least from my location. does anyone still following this method? I also have been out of the markets for health reasons Cheers Raul

Template I shorted YM @ 13852 (15:15 EST) and I got out at 13832 for a cool 20 points using this system. Let's see what happens

Here you go My pleasure Raul YM.zip

I saw prints in the vicinity of 50 contracts these past couple of days. We only hope it doesn't get arbed and blackboxed like ES as new volume comes in. Just remembering the good old days of the ES and it's nice swings. Similar to YM lately.

Yes you can combine both. Actually, transact AT has a button where you can launch sierra in a heartbeat. I've been using transact for years and had no problems whatsoever. Their execution is excellent. My entry was at 9:40 AM I still respect pivot points and S/R Levels. As yo can see, market bounced off from pivot at 9:35 AM. I always time my entries at the next bar whenever I see enough momentum if it breaks the higher/high lower/low. I am using this system pretty much the same as you can see price action is very similar to any regular candlesticks with the exception of the axis. The trade was a risky one as we had existing home sales @ 10:00 am Lucky for me the report came out bellow consensus so it pushed the market even lower. Anyway I am trading with just a couple of contracts so it's not a big deal. As long as you have the bars colored at the side of your trade - no problem. Let it go. You can opt to get out at the close of a bar in reversal or wait for a second bar to confirm either a reversal or pullback Entry was 13860 exit 13814. My DSL service got hanged during the trade so I had no choice but to call my broker Here's the chart

Actually bars do move with price, at least on sierra. As I notice they don't match the price at the axis. I use the bars pretty much as an indicator and I wait for the next period to break the higher high/lower low for an entry, if the bars change colors. I personally pay more attention on price. You're going to have the normal ebb and flow at the bar but the cool thing is that the bar don't change color unless they turn back the other way. I also use transact AT. It has a nice DOM This is where actually look at the price but you can check the price as it move thru the axis and they correlate nicely.

Shorted today at 9:40 @13860 just a couple of contracts Exit @ 13814 as my DSL service acted up big time Anyway it was a 46 points move. I am an old dog and somehow I feel skeptical. Need to find the reasoning behind this

Short answer - yes stay the color once the bar closes...doesn't change in the future

Walter I still trying to digest this new stuff. I traded to day with just a couple of contracts, only using the bar repaint as an indicator and it worked like a charm. Actually I sold YM @13913 and I got out with a minor scratch as the bars repainted to the other side (bullish) I closed my position and went long @13921 with the idea of capturing 20 ym points. If you notice what I really did was to buy on the pullback as the market sold off today. It reached my target and actually went up to 13957 area before reversing. That would be a cool 36 points if I stayed on the trade before the bars re-painted again. I even could got away with a tight stop on the reversal. Stop - 13957 Entry 13946 and I would get the whole sell-off......just looking at the bars At this point sincerely I don't know what to think.

Here's using 144 tick charts look how smooth the price is look at the pullbacks sweet! and all in real time

Thanks for allowing me to help We're going to do a simple exercise. But there's some things you should od so this can work good. 1) As everyone mentioned here...don't look at CNBC for sometime. 2) Forget about fundamentals 3)Forget about yesterday's price. We're going to focus on what's happening now. 4)Clear your charts of any indicators, pivot points etc. Just plain ol' naked charts. Could be pinbars, candlesticks, etc.(no renko/volume bars or any of that crazy good stuff) 5)clear your head. Calm down. We're going to start from square one. 6) stop trading live for a period of time… 6) we're going to use 5 minutes charts. Not too fast, not too slow. Don't worry, eventually you will use the timeframe/tickframe of your choice 7) we start at 9:30...no overnight trading please!!!!! If you have instant replay or steaming replay on your software will be nice, If now I want you to do this in real time mode. No hindsight stuff allowed. We're looking identify ebbs and flows on price. But I want you to do it ****as is happening**** . Don't take any point of reference in the past...the market is HERE AND NOW. Observe points of exhaustion. Look closely at the bars. The market is heading in one direction and you see that is kinda losing steam. Look at the next bar. Now you notice that is breaking the higher/high lower/low of the preceding bar in the opposite direction. Place a marker (line, dot etc) at the spot from where the market started to turn. Now we look at the next bar 1) is it moving fast/slow at the other direction?? 2) is it getting really long as compare to the preceding bar?? 3)Do you see sudden "jumps" in price? Like the market is eager to change course?? now at the close of that bar, observe the next one is it breaking the higher/high - lower low of the preceding bar(the bar of change)?? at the end of the day, we're going to check this "turning points" and quantify what happened How many times the market turned? What would you do at any of these turning points? we're dealing with three bars here 1) heading up/down at the direction of the flow 2) one that exhausts and turns the other way 3)another that's confirming the change as is breaking the higher/high/lower low of the bar of change. You will practice as much as you can that no rush yourself into anything. Take your time Markets are just plain shifts between demand and supply. Nothing more. Understanding this is crucial for every trader, despite whatever system/strategy you use. Other than that is very much like be on a ship with a bunch of drunken sailors. Think about swings first and then you will understand trends and the validity of them But swings comes first. Again, this is going to be in real time…after all no hindsight will save you when you’re in a trade in real time . Here’s some tips and some constructive criticism with the utmost respect. Personally I use two elements in my trading - observation and reaction. If the market reach x level/price = I have a plan (could be a resting order depending on market conditions) If the market deteriorates and go south after my entry - I have a plan If the market gets on a coil (consolidates) after my entry = I have a plan Let's assume you decided to get in at the third bar. There are some possible outcomes of the trade 1) the market will go your way fast (sweet) reaching your targeted destination = profit $$$$$$ 2) the market will go your way but will give you some heat. 3)The market will get stuck in a coil, but eventually reach your desired point of destination 4) the market will get stuck in a coil an eventually go against you and 5) there's a slight possibility that the market turns the other way fast after your entry. At any of these elements I mentioned, you MUST have a plan. A course of action As I read your post I notice there's some issues we need to address respectfully of course 1) You have an overload of information in your head - Is good to read books, listen to news etc. But sometimes we need to stop, as we get all confused with so many options. So much stuff in your head will only gives you the following : A) headache B)unforced error by the time of trading – You have a chart in front of you and you see a possible trade . There’s some many things you can do based on the information floating in your head that you just go blind and pull the trigger. Then you feel like the ground is moving. Something like “ oh crap I should wait†or “ oh man I should bought instead of sold because “The sentiment index†was bullish†and then you say “oh man my P&L is going to go south†all of the sudden all this emotions takes over and you….exactly, make a mistake. 2) CNBC - Sometimes they invite good guest, like John Preston, etc. But you have no idea how much misleading information this single network delivers to the masses. My favorite two is their so called "fair value" and the booya fool (oh boy I don't recall the name of that clown.) 3) The heat - I can see that's a problem. My suggestion before you trade – You need to determine how much heat you can handle. Work on that before you go back to trading, otherwise you'll be feeling like a beheaded chicken everytime you put a trade. 4)Fundamental analysis and technical analysis - There's a big debate and I personally think both has it's merit and purposes. But let's face it, you're a daytrader. You probably don't have zillions of dollars to dump in the market to hold a position for three months or more. You just mentioned that you heard something on CNBC and your "sentiment" was bearish and you were looking to go short and then you got screwed up etc...remember??? So as you see this has nothing to value for you. Is good to keep an ear on the ground. Be careful on reports as you know they move the markets. As I mentioned, you're a daytrader. Trade what you see. Stick to your plans. Make it easy. All you need for trading is right there at your fingertips. Back in the day, people draw charts and technicals "by hand" That was really hard brother. 5) Emotions - Allow me to quote you with all respect "My first trade was a short on the YM at 8:34CT, at 13980, but then I chickened out and bought it back for a 2 point gain at 13978 at 8:35CT. Then I shorted again at 9:20CT at 13972, but it was a wrong move and the market went up. I bought back my short at 9:59CT, at 14017, a 39 point loss. Now that I look back I’m not sure what was going through my head" 1)Why it was a wrong move?? because you got some heat?? I know the market went up eventually, but where’s your plan for that?? 2) why did you chickened out? smells to me no plan of action whatsoever 3) Why you let the market take 39 points away from you?? Of course you're trading based on emotions. You're probably "hoping and praying†that the market turns your way This is a no-no...You call the shots, not the market. "Now that I look at the charts I should have never let it go past just above 14000. I think I was hoping that it would dip back so at least I could even out. Maybe I even though that I was invincible and it would come down below where I shorted, or that my self awareness depended on me sticking to my position." see what I mean??..You don't "hope"...you act. A lesson to learn off this comment – Everytime you see the DOW or S&P reaching a significant level AKA 14k Serious cash will be dumped in the market. So what you see apparently as a “counter move†is nothing more like everyone running away like chickens from a horny rooster, looking to save their sorry asses. Of course, somebody has to be at the other side of the trade don’t you think? “That’s why after I had once printed out charts and made plans and marked support and resistance areas" You know /S/R areas, pivot points, etc. Everything that's forward-thinking is a great way to trade but is plagued with plenty of -stop-hunters waiting for newbie’s on the breakout, forcing them to bail out as they push the market to either side. A plain observation at the pivot points will be enough to see what I mean. Just notice how speed increases when the market reach these levels. A word of caution - always have some sort of confirmation before jumping in whether the market breaks or bounces off these levels. who's moving the markets.?? here's what you say "What if it the market is moving simply because mom’s and pops are watching Mad Money and Fast Money and buying stocks. What if traders are simply watching individual companies and buying based on earning’s report and related news. Shouldn’t I be paying attention to these fundamentals that are moving the Dow?" Do you think that moms and pops are moving the market because they're buying stocks?? You're trading indices my friend. Futures is THE leading market. Equities just follows. Futures are STILL controlled by the pit. Floor traders STILL looks at the futures market for clues. Is not the other way around. Sometimes I buy shares on QQQQ having a NQ(Mini Nasdaq) chart side by side looking for soft spots on the cubes. It works pretty good. "But the feeling of being successful soon faded as the market opened and I realized I have no clue where it was going to go." My question is, why would you need to have a "clue" of where the market might go?? Wouldn’t be better to have a bag of options? like...if the market reach here, I would do this....if the market reach there, I would do that "My trading plans seemed to have faded from my mind when the market opened. I had foreseen that this might happen, this forgetting of what I had planned" Because you're making plans with an overloaded head, still thinking about fast money, The DOW, GOOG, the booya fool (still can recall his name) sectors, vectors, etc…all these elements which will not help you at all and ultimately, as you look at the REAL PRICE ACTION (which by nature is intimidating) YOU feel like a deer in the headlights. You can’t beat the market but you can manage your trade. Think about it. A word about stop-loss Stop-loss has brought so much heated arguments and discrepancies among traders, somehow similar to "Fundamental vs. Technical" stuff. Here's my own personal-subjective point of view about stop loss. I do use stop-loss. But they don't manage my trade. Some traders use them as a part of a system, I was part of that school long time ago until I realized that my equity curve was pretty flat. My stops get hit from time to time, yes. But they're my last resort. See, more than stop loss, I have a real expectancy on my trade once I have an entry. Of course I carry some risk allowing my trade to get some heat. But for how long and how much??? Where’s my tolerance zone?? Something you need to find out by yourself 39 point loss for a total of 81??? don't you think you should bail out at 20?? You must pre-determined your stop loss and where is a possible spot on the charts in where you just simply bail out in order to have a second look at the situation. I use a hard-stop loss, away from noise and a soft stop when I see the market turning the other way in momentum. Sometimes the market spikes. You must protect yourself in those situations Using a soft stop loss allow me to get out, either with a small profit or small scratch and have a better perspective on the situation. Many times, market conditions gets better and I trade again, with better results. Or sometimes I just call off for the day, which is a valid position. Abe, you're going to hear many good advice form this site. Here's plenty of traders willing to help and we're going get you going. Sooner or later you will get it and you WILL make it I have no doubts. But ultimately is you and the market. You're the one who call the shots. It's your responsibility to have an educated guess on your entries but at the same time you're the careholder of your funds. Just think about it. I will post some charts for you later on. The pain is taking a toll on me today Hope it helps Raul

Abe I've been reading your post. You had been given good advice but I can tell that you're still struggling. I would like to help. If you allow me, we can practice a simple yet powerful excercise using charts and price but I need your comfirmation first. Awaiting response Thanks Raul