edabreu

Please define "trading goods" By "trading goods " do you mean things like books, indicators, software, motorcycles? What is definetly not included in "trading goods"?

I used to think that. But now I know its my fair weather friend and a fickle one at that.

Good start to the week. Would have preferred the breakout at 09:41... but I'll take this and be happy.

Yes, they continue to perform wonderfully. If you are genuinely interested, you can always follow along in detail on my blogs. If occassionally posting is not suitable for what you want on this forum then let me know.

Yes, I trade everyday.

Did most of it overnight so frid could be free..

I set it and left it. Traded the usual short term during the session and bought my stop... just in case.

Took all day to get a decent runner.

Ate the elephant one bite at a time today. Lots of trades waiting for that bigger one, got stopped out a few times, but wound up nicely positive.

Lots of choppy action, 6 tick chop, narrow range, slow and low vol.... good day to spend most of it sitting on your hands. Missed the trade of the day and left a lot on the table because of the irratic speed and irregular price flow. Got shaken out, faked out and couldn't get anything to go for more than a couple of points. Managed not to lose money... so it was all still good.

Yes...dependency is not a good thing in the long run. We don't know why Ninja recorded that trade with that late date. We put that trade on Thursday and let it keep over the holiday. Came back to see it hit the target, and it recorded the date weird. It was a MB trade, and those of us that trade together have been testing them out on a few time frames. It worked pretty well,... the stats are good on the MB setups. Soon we will all go to cash with them. We have a massive dbltp coming frm way back 2/9 , 2/10 so we are going to see how it lines up for the MB setup. Didn't see the point in explaining anything to people who don't trade together. What was important to us was whether or not the number got hit within 6 ticks. cool...

Good month so far. Trying to hold out for the bigger trade (runners) still does not mean I will let a winner turn into a loser. If there is money on the table and the trade looks like its going bad, or taking too long at a s&r or the vol suddenly drops off, I take what's on the table and pay the broker $5 bucks, and pocket my cut.

Tonights ES trade. Looking for a rally to start up to 920's sometime soon.

ES seemed to go to sleep on Friday am.

For me each trade starts as a scalp to first target. So I define my style as a scalper; always on the look out for the bigger trade. I trade the ES, FESX, FDAX. My focus is on price and price bar patterns. I use range charts. This defines price without time into specific brackets. I pay close attention to the ratio of trading price on the building bars defined size. I also pay close attention to the speed of the bar building in relation to the previous bar. I pay close attention to the last few bars position in relation the nearby s&r. I pay close attention to the dom orders and cummulative order buildup as price approaches the trading bid/ask. I use market profile for volume distribution of current days trading, of pervious sessions tpo/vol areas, and of the kill zones. I use the volume at the price point setup for entry at the best possible moment I can see. I use standard and customized tools to help me define a trading opportunity before moving in to focus on the entry opportunity for minimal risk. I am near 90% accurate to first target. My first target is 1 point (4 ticks). I trade 2 and 3c lots depending on the setups rating. I have only 2 trade setups, and 2 variations for add points or re-entry. I use a 6 tick money stop, and a 10 tick catastrophy stop on each trade. I also employ the free trade principle once I have some of the markets money to play with. I trade to my daily quota and stop trading for the day. I usually only trade 2 hours a day. Then I go and focus on the other parts of my profession ..ie - places like this and private clients. I have had a few great mentors (and some real assholes), and have spent a fortune learning mostly the hard and costly way. If I can save anyone that pain, then I will. Its the least I can do, since in the exchange there is something for me. It keeps me sharp, keeps me focused and constantly under review and scrutiny. This is a tough profession and even tougher business. It is not for everyone. My method works for me. I do not know all the answers and do not have your secret answer. But I can help if only to keep you from making the most gross mstakes. I am a professional trader. Anyone here is free to trade with me at any time, or ask me questions between trades.

oH BOY...ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION REQUEST. Firstly, why do you think you need a trade room anyways? Are you impatient? Are you trading live without first having tested your trade setups? Are you pushing an age where you think time is running out? Do you think that you are incapable of devising a method and trade setups yourself? Have you been un-willing to follow the advise of this and other good forums, to start slowly, testing and re-testing before you started trading your cash? Have you kept a comprehensive journal and do you know what kind of trader you are? Are you a scalper, a swing trader, trend trader,, etc? I do not mean to be mean, but no trade room is not going to help you if you are already losing your shirt trading live when you should not be. From your statement and request I can only recommend that you do one or more of the following. Stop trading cash. Stop looking for a room. Take a close look at the defined trade setups you are using. Do you know their performance rate? Can you answer the question about the type of trader you are? Which is it? Are you employing the right method for that type of trader? Have you passed any kind of strict performance test with regards to your trade sets and methods and style? The only most legit reason I can think of for not doing all the work required is that you are pushing 60 and you feel you are running out of time. Then you may need a mentor. There are lots of trader's here who may be willing to help you. But none of them are going to do the work for you because there is no way they can. Really. Every trader has to learn who they are as a trader, their risk tolerance, and develop their own style. However, you can look over the shoulder of a successful trader and copy them until you learn something of your own approach and develop as a trader. The cold hard reality is that not everyone is cut out to be a trader, just like not everyone is cut out to be a surgeon, pilot, bus driver, or nanny. But some professions are easier than others. This is not one of the easy one's. I would be doing you a dis-service if I told you anything different. If you need to make money and think this is the way, then the other option is to let someone else trade your money for you. This can be another can of worms, but it's a better chance than continuing to trade yourself and lose all your money. If time and the need for income is the issue, consider the managed accounts option while you are learning to do this yourself. You will be giving away most of your gains, and you will need to do some serious indepth homework to find a safe systems program (if one even exists) that is publically available. The better one's are usually private, with very high minimum account requirements, and moderate but consistently profitable returns. Now, having said all that...there is no way I am going to recommend a trade room. I know of 2 people who would pounce all over any recommendation and I have no desire to go through that again. However there are a couple of excellent rooms out there. Take your time to qualify all the rooms you have attended. Use the trade rooms guidelines post and you may have a chance of finding a decent one with a serious coach who rather than try to impress you with his trading, focuses on your ability to make money in their room as you develop into an independent trader. If one of the previous rooms you visited qualifies, try returning there and observe again very closely focusing on what is being done. Could be the first time you approached it all wrong, as in trading cash when you should not have been. Re-qualify it using the guidelines. Let me know of your answers to those questions. If you don't have very clear precise answers, then those are some of the reason's you are not having success. This brings me to my final point about trade rooms. As in methods and indicators, and most all else about trading... what works for me may not work for you. Do not take anyone elses opinion about anything as defacto truth. You and you alone have the burden of discovering what works for you. IF trade rooms is what you need, then only you know that. If mentorship is what you need, then only you know that. If managed accounts is for you, only you know that. No one else has 'your' right answer. We can only say what has worked for us, and what still works for us.

This is designed so that most all your mistakes can be made on sim. Of course, if you cheat, then you only cheat youself. This is not an easy test... but then neither is your first foray into cash trading. Begin Cash Trading only after successfully completing the Acid Test. This test must be done on your own, not in a trade room using anyone else's calls. You can use live market in sim. If you cheat, you loose. Designed for the Emini S&P. This needs a high personal performance rate of at least 75%. Things you will want to learn: Your risk tolerance. Money management - target, stop and exit criteria; risk and reward criteria; timing and pacing; endurance; patience; dicipline, and crucial personal concepts. You will begin to define the type of trader you are. You will begin to learn how to deal with loss. You will have to clearly define your trades. KEEP A DETAILED LOG as you will need to define the trade setups and rules that work for you and which do not. Option 1: You must have a starting SIM balance of $5,000 and trade 2 contracts. The first target is 4 tics for 2 contracts with 8 tick stop. It is all in and out at first target. Get in, get out, get paid. This needs a high personal performance rate of at least 75%. Option 2: You must have a starting SIM balance of $5,000 and trade 2 contracts. The stops are the same as option 1. The first target is 4 tics for 1 contract and set your second contract target at no closer than 8 tics. Once your first target is hit, move your stop to 4 tics behind your entry price. When price moves 7 tics towards your target, move your stop to entry and leave it there. If price moves to 8 tics, move your stop up 4 tics above your entry price and leave it there. Your target is 9 tics. This can all be set up in your Ninja dom strategy. Refer to the Ninja videos or your manual on how to do this. Option 3: You must have a starting balance of $10,000 and trade 1 contract. Your stop is 10 tics, your 1st target is 6 tics. Once price moves 6 tics to target, move stop to entry +1. At 7 tics lock in 3tics. Manage your trade. The goal is 24 tics - The MOAT. Increase this to 40 tics for the 10 bagger! As you can tell, there are many ways to slice the pie. The most important is to decide how much risk you can tolerate (which comes to no more than 2% on any single trade), what your personal performance level is in being able to see a valid trade setup, your ability to decide in time and pull the trigger, and how to manage a trade for maximum gains. All this you can learn on sim and your performance record is going to reflect it. Crucial differences will be fills on entries and exits, and realities of loss. What you will not learn on sim is the real emotional upheaval as you take stop after stop. So, if you get stopped out more than 3x in a row, stop trading that day. Trade the sim as you would real because you have a time frame of 3 months to pass the test. If you find yourself in the second year of trying to pass the acid test, then maybe you should quit trading and do something else or get some help. Passing grade is 75% on every 25 trades and you must double your account. ONCE YOU HAVE PASSED YOUR TEST DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN YOUR CASH TRADING THAT YOU DID TO PASS THE TEST. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE DOUBLED YOUR ACCOUNT. As you progress... don't try to fix what is not broken. Before you start the test, study and practice Options: 1 - Advance your chart one tick (bar) at a time. On each bar decide trade, no trade. 2 - Same as above but strip down the chart to the price bars, and 1 oscillator and/or volume indicator. 3 - Run market replay no recent than 3 months. 4 - Run simulated data, but have someone else change the trend settings for you every 14, and 27 minutes. Tell them to mix it up to fool you. 5 - Use a 610 or less volume chart, a 3 range chart, a 45 seconds chart, or a 144 tic chart. 6 - Use a 3 min, 5min, 10min or higher chart. If you find that you must reset your sim, then do so only after clearly defining your mistakes. That trade journal is going to be crucial so make it as detailed as possible. It will become your trading bible.

Great post. Thanks. I still need to hear this. It's damned worth it. "Endeavor to persevere" keeps popping in my head every day.

I didn't want to recommend anything unless someone wants a recommendation. Keep in mind that any recommendation is going to be what has worked for me. I still highly recommend you try the original approach which is to try and develop a combination that you define with a set of rules and see if you can get that to about 70% to first target. If I had to do it all over again I would do this first since it would have saved me a lot of money because even if I could not get a good set going, it would have forced me to learn all the current tools in-depth and hence been able to make a better decision once going to market to look for a pre-defined method and tool-set. But here is my recommendation for the indicators and method that I have found to be the best. #1 - Blue Wave Trading Precision Indicators

Yup...I got fired once too. Beware if the moderator tells you that the answer will cost you an additional $5k bucks! Good trading coaches will give you their email and let you pick their brains... Not everything you learn is going to be immediately useful. So, store some things away for a future time and concentrate on the things you need to know right now to NOT LOSE money and to make money. Add more setups slowly over time. You only need 1 or 2 high probability setups in the beginning to make money, but you absolutely must know immediately how to not lose money.

yea...pretty cool wasn't it. Did I mention my private room? did I say where it was or how to get to it? its free by the way.

Trading alone is tough. I now mentor and run a private trade room, but years ago I had a trading buddy, played music, read articles from the internet, and did a few things to relieve the boredom and share the pressure. So, if you don't want to hang out in a trade room, find a trading buddy who is as good or better a trader than you and trade together. Just remember to trade to a specified daily goal, then stop. After a bit you may find yourself done within an hour or two. So the boredom things won't be an issue.

After more than 5 years full time trading, and about 100 trade rooms later I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room. First question is why do you need a trade room? Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Complicated answer is you really need guidance but cannot afford a 1 on 1 mentorship. A good trade room should help you make money while you learn. Unfortunately, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's? I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high. Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time. Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed. Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets a bit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting. To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades. The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal, some Q&A once the daily goal is met, and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading. So, first you need to decide which is right for you. Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid. Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS. If a person hangs out their shingle and asks for your money in return for a service, then you better make sure that service is to your liking. If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not. But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me. So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk. So if you have found a room then the best way to research the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart. Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assessment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next very important thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your next task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousy moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join. Look for verifiable results. Verifiable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records. I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator who trades his own money be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 a.m. and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 a.m. most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades? So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, Do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire. Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period. You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc. Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidance, and make money while you learn. I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because i did not have my own act together). Currently I do not need a trade room. If you are at that point then congratulations! If not, then even if you join any trade room, remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully, and live off the profits of your hard earned accomplishment.

The best journal I have ever used, and still do is written by a fellow trader buddy of mine. Send an email to tradingjournal@live.com and ask him about the journal.

Let me first tell you straight out that learning to trade is very stressful, even gut renching agonizing at times, and can be an emotional roller coaster. So, please do not think it is or will be any easier than what you are doing now. What is great - at the other side of the tunnel - is a certain amount of life-style freedom. You still need to trade when the trading is good, you still need to put in the daily prep, and you still need to sit and do the work of the trade. But, if you get your head straight, start slow, be willing to NOT repeat all of our mistakes, then you should be ok. Here are a few mistakes NOT to be repeated: DO NOT TRADE UNDERFUNDED- this is mistake numero uno. Give yourself, in the beginning at least, $10 or $15k per contract in your account. DO NOT TRADE CASH UNTIL YOU HAVE TESTED YOURSELF AND KNOW WHAT KIND OF TRADER YOU ARE AND HAVE YOUR METHOD DOWN PAT - this is mistake numero uno. Too many traders jump into trading half prepared, with too much hope and too much greed. DO NOT TRADE MORE THAN 1 INSTRUMENT YOUR FIRST YEAR IN CASH - this is mistake numero uno. I have seen many traders have a couple of months success trading the instrument they just spent the last 6 months studying, and then suddenly branch out to a new instrument in cash, and blow out their accounts. This is because the process you go through for your first instrument needs to be repeated for each instrument you decide to add. Each instrument trades similarly, but they each have a certain price character. So, tackle one, master it, then study the next before using your cash on it. DO NOT BUY ANY INDICATORS UNTIL YOU HAVE EXHAUSTED YOUR OWN RESEARCH INTO A METHOD OF YOUR OWN DESIGN. This is mistake numero uno. This is also the hardest for traders to do since it means a long time before you even get to trade. So many traders are so impatient and they want the quick fix, easy answer, and have the just give me the magic indicator so I can make money attitude. Its the industries fault, not yours. So safeguard yourself and learn about the indicators already available in your charting platform. Put 3 or four of them together and start tweeking them, studying them, and keep a detailed journal of what you consider good setups that your discover. Trade those setups in strict sim; tweek them some more, record the results. Spend as much time as you need until you have something that shows about a 60% to 70% accuracy rate to first target completion. Devise your trade rules to enhance this. Then, take a formal acid test. See how you make out. The confidence in yourself is more more important than confidence in someone else, and it is going to be the same for your tools. There are hundreds of free trade room trials available. Why do you even ask this question?!!? If you are not willing to do your own research and study, then you are already behind the 8 ball. You want me - or other traders - to make it easy for you? Forget it. The best thing I can do for you is to tell you that you are going to succeed because you are willing to. That means YOU research the internet yourself for free trial rooms, YOU go and get a book list from just about any decent trader education website, YOU go and get a couple of trade platforms and check them out. YOU start creating a chart design with tools you understand, and start recording in detail the results. Do not be afraid of not knowing a lot in the beginning. That is actually a very good thing. It will toughen you up for the real deal later. Now, if you want to pay me money then I would be glad to tell you exactly what to do. I won't guarantee any of it will work for you, but if that's what you want, sure. Pay me $7k dollars and here's the manual, here's the trade room, now take this trade, and do exactly what I do when I tell you, and good luck buddy. I hope you understand what I am trying to tell you. Trust yourself. The successful traders who want to sell you their stuff all have one thing in common. Their stuff works for them, and maybe a lucky few. Otherwise, there would not be hundreds of indicators, hundreds of methods, hundreds of styles, etc. If you are lucky you will find the right match with minimal cost. This is not a bad thing. Now, having said all that - I can recommend the indicators and method that works for me.