zdo

Rande and participants, Do you realize how few are going ‘all the way’ with this? Of those who even start, many will drop. Some will limit seeing the first session as simply ‘emotional intervention’ techniques, the 2nd session as only ‘assessment intervention’. etc… (great skills in and of themselves btw, but…). Others conclude the process doesn’t directly lead to ‘riches’. Other will get triggered deeply back into defensiveness patterns… (list goes on… feel free to add more to it folks) How do I know? I’ve done versions of every single one of them multiple times and am at risk of ‘using’ the last excuse listed above right now. I think it was CGJ who said many issues never really heal, they just developmentally fade from relevance and drop out of focus and awareness. Seems I have a couple related to the list of four from last night that ‘should’ have faded long ago. They do fade from sharp awareness but are still there waiting in the darkness for trigger moments like last night… lab sample of one, zdo

Thanks Tradewinds. Good idea. Set one up and send a link - I'm there. I would welcome and appreciate if some of the participants in the webinar who are more experienced with this work get involved. I was thinking of trying a voice livechat. Like scheduled or ad hoc DimDim's. Anyone interested? Immediate thoughts after Session 2: things didn't unfold in me in the sequence presented in the 2nd guided meditation, ... among other things, a kinesthetic orphan (or orphaned kinesthetic) showed up and that sort of put everything on hold during ...but I'm finding great value in raising the principles and the essence of this approach to awareness... "As to methods, there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods" R.Waldo Emerson

TRO EURUSD just passed 20 above its intraday low… after a sustained move down of almost 2 full points. Do you take these trades no matter what conditions leading up to it were? (My guess is yes, but… anything to add?) thx

Thought I would have more opportunities to apply the ‘interrupts’ realtime but simply haven’t. For example, on Fri. I was in six trades of any size / consequence. I didn’t really experience much in the way of “emotion” , as Rande defines it, in any them. I don’t think the uncon. emotional meter needles moved much at all anytime during those trades either. One of them dilly dallied around some. I just went to other workspaces and screens (is that avoidance?) and when I came back later it was filled… btw, some think that all 'rational' state wherein a trade simply either ‘will work or it won’t work’ is the optimum space for a trader to be in. It isn’t!!! That’s one of the reasons why I stay interested in these “personal applied neurofinance”* aspects of trading. Also, struggling with running solo ‘inoculation’ sessions to completions… as I said before, I need 3 weeks btwn classes… You guys looking forward to tonight? PS * Tams if you read this… over in the webinar invitations thread you asked Rande what he was selling. Rande is more than welcome to correct me if wrong, but I think he is selling “personal applied neurofinance” and his pricing, etc can be found at tradersstateofmind. com fyi

GENERIC TRADE _____________ Futures & Options The ‘even more centralized statists’ are planning to win the next revolution. To win it only requires you to simply stand aside. Title should read ‘Vatican’ not Vatican – “deep dark difference” http://cryptogon.com/?p=25667 and The second American revolution has begun ... and his handlers require him to start more wars (so they can finance both sides and also sell supplies, etc to both sides…) http://cryptogon.com/?p=25695 The Son of Africa Claims a Continent?s Crown Jewels - BlackListedNews.com What Have We Gotten For The Trillion Dollars We Have Spent On Wars In Afghanistan, Iraq And Libya? - BlackListedNews.com If you even woke up - go back to sleep now.

Playing the extremes of “crunch points” (instead of the breakouts, btw) has developed over the years to one of my favorite times to be trading – simply because it is exciting. I always aspired to be great at it, but back in the early days had a lot of white knuckle and adrenaline ‘side effects’ to deal with. It’s easy money if you can accept the short term heat. Keys are experience and never to be oversized. I liken it to being up on the stick in a old biplane using intuitive measures instead of normal trading which is like flying a jumbo jet with all kinds of precise instrumentation… With practice you can get good at hitting at the market during the final surges in excursions. My (quite unnecessary) 'mental' confidence is based on the stats that a high percentage of news releases and reports, etc. that have immediate wild excursion away from starting place return back near to where they started from within hours – with even higher freq. than in the old days. Haven’t ran the stats, but I also believe the excursion ranges are also not as extreme as they used to be... ... and related to this, I have gone offline during 'madness' ... because of these tendencies /stats, it's nothing to really worry about. If you have to, you can always overwhelm any remaining heat later with size - that is if you're not oversized to begin with... Negoc8r, a compliment - you are a great poster and a super moderator too. Thanks.

Some questions have emerged about ‘safeplace’ . Instead of an imagination (using as many ‘senses’ as possible, etc), is it ok to just use a ‘place’ in self that is what I’m like at my best? This got triggered when I was first viewing the sample images in the presentation and was amused (among other reactions) by the oddity that I found some personal ‘trauma’ or aversion or anxiety associated with almost all those images…( if you’re interested let me know and I’ll share the details – some of them are entertaining) … anyways, (and shtfar, I hope I don’t have the “prisoners’” deficits with safeplaces :smoking:) can I use ‘aspects of me at my best’ as a safeplace? In the session, the word memory was used almost exclusively in relation to safeplace. Basic question is - Does it have to be a 'memory' ? thx

Blowfish is right. RoR is better way to come at it because… Actually, "The correct way to set your risk % per trade" (and sizing) varies with different systems. In risk management, most developing traders are no where near ready to access and utilize the type of 'data' coming from “Will you be satisfied with” questions. At first (and for most, for quite a while) it is much better to establish real stats, then learn how to ask the right questions that will lead to learning how to use those stats properly … which is conservatively (most of the time) ...

Systemantics: The system's actions come to serve keeping the system intact instead of serving the purposes the system was created for… with less than desirable consequences ultimately… BobC “Far wiser minds than mine are at this moment discussing a solution” It would be sad if you were serious. Hope you were joking… re “their economy has shrunk too much to recover and pay back all the borrowed money” How ‘bout ‘ALL the economies have ‘shrunk’ too much to recover and pay back all the borrowed (ie fiat) money’ ? Steve46 re “the EU will have to re-capitalize several banks” ie ? … the Fed will have to re-capitalize many banks… C4 “Eur0 and EU… The market did not create them” Does the market as a whole create fiat currencies, or are they always created by the actions of a tiny few? A serious and less conspiratorial question than you might first think… oops sorry BobC re “are not really interested in mainline economic theory” … especially when it’s used as a paradigm tool to screw the real world

BobC, I question that belief "If they leave the euro they will collapse." Real commerce only has slight and short interuptions when a fiat currency 'goes away' etc etc . Collaspe is a myth. However the concommitant relocations ('dislocation' is the fear word used in the current paradigm lies) of wealth / capital transfer, etc are not myth See OP http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/market-analysis/9749-fx-eurotrash.html I think Germ, Inc. can keep or discard as many of its new states as it wants. and btw... globally, it on soveirgn individuals whether or not they are left perpetually on the hook for the fiat financial excesses of , gov't's, banks, corp.'s, others, etc ...as 'villagee' as they are, the Germs still might surprise you in that regard

Lightspeed trading Switch to Lightspeed But but there ain't no hundredth monkey ! Charles Hugh Smith charles hugh smith-The Truth Is Going Global If we could get an accurate poll of the 10's of thousands of TL members, what % do you think would be still framed into, immersed in, (and dialoguing to the tunes of) the "Status Quo" ? Anecdotally judging from the way money is discussed herein (or not), I would estimate over 95% are still bought into / sold into / whatever that old paradigm ... and, btw, don't get sucked in by 'protester' content ... it's a wing of the lies! Have a great weekend all. zdo

it's still just rumor mongering of course - but this is what I been talking about since OP It's Baaack: FT Deutschland Pronounces Deutsche Mark's Return, Prices Itself At 4.11 DM | ZeroHedge

Tradewinds, When I read your post, I asked myself what is he trying to say with “the most important thing that I believe the Class offers is a way to train my mind to develop a parallel mindset”, etc. Maybe you just plain ole meant what you said and no more or less, but for me what you said triggered the following – when these acts are practiced, it is crucial to ‘interupt’ habitual fear based pathways, but the real gains come from building alternate (“parallel” ?? , a better concept may be simply a “new”) neural pathway for engaging similar subsequent situations. Really making these new patterns is where that last fear on the list ( why is that one in red? ) may be ‘mine’... risk of discomfort for no benefit at best, and a possible homeostasis wreck and insanity at worst … (in a word) neurosis. I think I need 3 weeks between classes to really root some of this stuff... Thanks for the post. zdo

First Class: My experiences When we got to the list of which of the fears “really clicked” – No one of them really clicked. Closer to real was that I had them all except one of them. …and that they rotate. Multiple rotating fears… one will be ascendant for a while then another, or I am susceptible to several of them at once… more later...

Pipsqueak, I wonder what the minimum and maximum time range is for someone to make the protocols he introduced 'habit' for any uncertainty based emotional perturbation that arises while trading (or living life in general) My commitment is to do it for every 'emotion' that comes into awareness while trading... didn't take long this morning to become aware of how many "avoid"ance tricks I've got at the ready to keep me from experiencing these upsets. I need to rig up some biofeedback somehow... any ideas anyone? zdo PS off topic smilly -Just noticed this is post 999 for me. Free assoc'ing ----- Would prefer H. Cain to BO but not sure about his 999 plan... course if everyone else is against it so badly, it probably is close to the mark...

Thanks Rande. I'm not used to 'social learning' anymore. I'm used to toughing it out on my own. My question was not so much about being open and disclosing per se as it was about how much leverage the "social learning" aspect of the process a text forum medium would provide. I'm willing to make the best of it with what we got, but also curious if voice chats or something would be more effective with the "social learning" component.

Thanks, Larry. Your post reminded me of the “Kicking the can down the road…” phrase being thrown around at zerohedge, etc. these days. Once, when I was about 11 years old, I did it. I literally kicked a can down the road. It actually goes down the road quite a ways sometimes…hm …but the 'smallifying' use of the “kicking the can” phrase today is dangerously misleading minimization. I suffered zero consequences for no longer kicking the can down the road when I got fascinated by something else… I didn't have to even pick the can up and put it in the trash or anything... not the case in our present day global situations.

I usually have to hope my post doesn't kill a thread - but this time I hope it does

The forum medium’s limitations aside, will it really help me or anyone else if I disclose here?

This thread is for the Rande Howell 4 week webinar participants to share, question, and refine on the material presented in class. (Until after Nov 9, for those not attending the webinar please restrict your posts to questions only. Open another thread if you have other content on this particular area of trading 'psychology' to contribute and we'll meet you there. Thanks.)

That's interesting. Long ago, I personally probably spent more money and time on crap than anyone up here in this forum... sheer personal stupidity... yet I do not regret one bit of the 'myths' I had to slough through... beginners mind, etc...

UNLEASH YOUR TRADING POTENTIAL Trade what and when and how you want This post is intended to get you thinking a little bit about fiat money and the inevitable financial and moral hazards it brings Behind Europe?s Debt Crisis Lurks Another Giant Bailout Of Wall Street Banks - BlackListedNews.comHm…?????? “The real problem is the financial system — centered on Wall Street” ??? Wrong! The real problem is not the financial system. The real problem is the money system the financial system is built on. Although the current money system is crumbling on schedule, those who know how are prepared to build another one – provided they are accepted again by a population too immature to understand what true capital and individual sovereignty is…

David Rosenberg On The Insanity Of Fixing Excess Leverage With More Leverage, And The Relentless Euro Rumormill | ZeroHedge

Hi. If you scholarship application was accepted, please check your PM asap. Thanks. zdo

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