zdo

...the industry speaks the industryspeak... Right out the gate, Noobs always have simple but difficult choices. Are you going to mire yourself in the herd and it’s ways or are you going to really differentiate yourself. Are you going with the many or are you going with the few? (The low quantity of additional 'industry' posts so far is heartening … even on TL it sometimes gets pretty treacherous for noobs..) some ppl can't see good 'risk’ management even if it is right there in plain sight... sneaky wording, but "accommodate" is not the same as "Losing 100 straight trades " First lines again once again for the slow ones.. This more than ameliorates risk of ruin.... ie Structure your world as if you are already successful. That’s how the the rich get richer. And btw, that’s quite the opposite of “jumping off the roofs of buildings” Instead, the industry knows its “Ways of the Stoploss” will actually put you together to be too careful too learn to thrive. (and :hell no: this is not saying AT ALL that you shouldn’t use stops! ) And if you’re reading this and thinking "but my beginning account IS too small for that” (which is the prevailing implication so far herein) then you dang tooten I want to be on the other side of your trades… because one of the ways to structure the 'first line' is most likely off to the side or at the top of this page and it begins with an o. re “One really needs to master the mechanics of their system inside and out, in real time simulated trading, before trading for real. Otherwise you have to deal with the learning curve AND all the psychological stuff that comes with trading real money as well.” More from the industry - straight out of the small ‘psychology’ section of a thousand or more trading method teachers’ web sites. :hello!!!!!!!: All the psychological stuff IS the learning curve. Trading is simple. In the beginning, complicate methods and techniques by going for the ‘intricacies’, etc. at your own risk… Noobs have another simple beginner's choice – head off on an other-directed / guided grail search (usually without yet even knowing what the grail is) OR watch the markets and watch yourself watching and really participating in the markets and uncover what your primary approach(es) is / are to trading by actually trading. ( btw, where is the grail really found? The High History of the Holy Grail ) THEN, when you know from within the way you want to trade, THEN seek out and learn from others who have compatible orientation and who have mastered a similar approach … and THEN train on sim… Noobs. the industry is telling you to go to school first, then go to life. I’m telling you go to life first, then go to school. Only if it were a single art or a single science would it be sensible to ‘go to school’ / read / study / take courses first. School and sim will only teach you about right / wrong! It will not really teach you about victory / defeat, or love / loss, and luck / no luck. Only live trading will teach you all four, in the way YOU personally need to learn them! Another simple, but difficult, choice to implement… re “…Kinesiology and sports psychology…” ??? spear, sincerely hope you are the only one in here who completely missed the point (pun spread out in that last trading sentence… Noobs - question the industry!!! One more convenient example of industryspeak: “… It goes on to say one should learn to hand chart first, before ever trying to paper trade with the computer. The author feels hand charting is a learning tool that better etches the material into your brain” Nothing wrong with that on the surface until we consider charts are only representations of the markets and that “The map is not the thing mapped" and remember what if legacy type time charts are the very last representation of the auctions a particular noob should, by nature, ever ever use? As I said in post 8, explore / flit about the various representations of auctions to find the one(s) most compatible with your own brains and inclinations… if it is traditional charting THEN drawing by hand has a great chance of helping… Another simple, but arduous, choice - Noob settles down immediately into the representational system the industry wants OR noob trials the whole range of representations of the auction to find which one really fits him… “What’s really important? What would we want to do if this weren’t an issue? If we could do it again from scratch, how would we do it differently?” paraphrasing my ‘thinking’ coach

This is related to the OP but I'm not yet sure how directly... hm ?? If the EURUSD were following recent correlation levels with the US indexes, the EUR would be back to 138.40 +. Instead it is near 1.34, down, and a third of the way back to it's 11/25 lows ...nothing's 'fixed' in EuroTrashLand ... and the value of the newly created USD's will not trickle down very far past the first recipients... There's a current "Trading Pullbacks" thread... maybe one of the methods could be - if an instrument is trash then just short into any and all rebounds... ...but fwiw, while the basic premise of the thread still holds, will not be giving my new shorts much wiggle room late Sun or early Mon am.... might even get flat... Ya'll have a great weekend.

If the EURUSD were following recent correlation levels with the US indexes, the EUR would be back to 138.40 +. Instead it is near 1.34, down, and a third of the way back to it's 11/25 lows This is related to the OP but I'm not sure how directly... hm ?? ...nothing's 'fixed' in EuroTrash ... and the newly created USD's will not trickle down very far below the first recipients... fwiw, I will not be giving these new shorts much wiggle room late Sun or early Mon am.... might even get flat.

tradingwolves, Post 8 is advice for the few. Everyone else is giving you the ‘good’ advice. I’m giving you the ‘bad’ advice. Go poll any 100 traders, only a tiny % of them will say Stay Real, No Sim. This settles it for most noobs – sim is the way to go. Then consider that among any 100 traders, only a tiny % of them really thrive. Also consider that if a trader does sim and then makes it out of the loozer pareto, s/he made it because of other factors. The weight of the sim-ming as a factor in the ultimate success in miniscule… even though there will be ardent posters trying to talk some sense into me and save you…and even though there will also be exceptions too – traders for whom simming really was the “way”. But, statistically speaking, it is a major part of the ‘big trap’ for beginners. Implementing line one of post 8 is one of the most immediately accessible ways to differentiate your self from the herd. I have been involved with quite a few traders at their beginnings. So far, every one of them could have benefited from this way - if only to accelerate the time they needed to find out if and how trading was really for them. The advantages to the first way are 1You find out faster if trading really is for you or not. You find out how much fire in your belly you have for it and if you don’t, you can move on to the next ‘game’ / opportunity / challenge. 2 You learn fast. You get to both the implicit and explicit learning much quicker. Probably most important part of this is you learn fast how to take real losses… and many of them… and how to recover from real losses and develop superb inner ways of dealing with them. If one carefully sets up and follows the parameters of the first line of post 8, the work and play and learning has the benefits of sim PLUS THE GEOMETRIC GAINS FROM REAL /LIVE/ NOT SIM learning (yes I’m finger screaming again!) 3 You concentrate your pain, instead of spreading it out across much, much longer time. 4. When you get to the proper and limited stage where simming is appropriate – you can structure and concentrate on serious training, not faking and flitting about, etc. I know none of this probably makes sense and it's awful dang contrary... Find out for yourself... just giving you an alternative to sim / school swimming with the other noobs

… and please forgive me for challenging industry paradigms and truisms, especially about sim’s effects. Please forgive me for ever saying DON’T TRY TO TRANSFER AND APPLY OR RELY ON EDUCATION’S (especially the collectivistic slant from current western gov’t school learning models and yes I am keyboard screaming.) ‘NORMAL’ TENETS Please forgive me for questioning the wisdom of loosely applying the principles of great video gamer play to trading, when it's clearly in "everyone" else's head that way now… Please forgive me for ever saying Pre 2000, learning by paper trading was inefficient at best and most likely helped create LoooozER!!!!!! Post 2000, learning by sim trading is inefficient at best and most likely produces LoooozER!!!!!!.

re Post 8 above. That was such bad advice. Please forgive me. Let me correct myself. Dally and dither, fk around on and off sim for a year or two, put less than zero real pressure on yourself, use someone else’s methods exclusively ie don’t dare develop anything on your own. Even better, try to find some g-ru in an e-room who knows exactly what you need to do. After all that sim screen time then go live and blow up 2 or 3 accounts, spend more time in misery each day than anyone on this planet but for the truly evil ppl should… then quit for a while. In your time away from the action, never question your own neurology’s role, etc. in your performance… just study the markets and methods and edges… and sim sim and sim some more Then, of cource, get more and more and more “disciplined” … now you’re getting it! Just be mentally disciplined… Start trading again and then slow kill another one or two more accounts…and maybe fast kill one more… and 3 years later fkn quit again… wait a few months and start again, this time with even more horrible unsolicited stories and memories flying back up out of your myofascia into your head everytime you sit down and open up your tradestation… then finally, if you’re persisting, you start dealing with stuff you should have been dealing with from day one in the way you should have dealt with it from day one instead of all the fake sim sht… It only took 5 years to discover what you could have discovered in 6 months. … What was I thinking? Clearly this more typical story is preferable to what I proposed in post 8. Again…Everyone please forgive me…

Provided the tourist really sets up “Capitalize and (or) De-leverage and (or) PositionSize to the point that your account can accommodate 100 losing trades in a row and it would still be only in a 40% drawdown” – that is precisely the most rewarding way to learn poker. If the beginning trader sets up “Capitalize and (or) De-leverage and (or) PositionSize to the point that your account can accommodate 100 losing trades in a row and it would still be only in a 40% drawdown” then CL is a wonderful place to start... However, for most traders starting out, the Capitalize part will rule out the accelerated path to trading excellence CL can deliver. I'm railing on the typical and what I believe is misguided utilization of sim!

tradingwolves, Capitalize and (or) De-leverage and (or) PositionSize to the point that your account can accommodate 100 losing trades in a row and it would still be only in a 40% drawdown and start trading LIVE!!!! In this LIVE, forward testing mode, explore methods, instruments, timeframes, platforms rapidly and playfully – like you’re a freakin’ Percival with ADHD (and ADD too). When you find sets of those that are true to your nature then, and only then, mature out of grail search mode and train intensively on sim in 2 to 4 per day 90 minute max length sessions for at least 3 weeks. In training, focus as much on training your mind and body as you do on ‘understanding’ and ‘mastering’ your methods, instruments, timeframes, platforms … in things like getting back in the correct ‘state’ as efficiently as possible – whether the last trades were winners or losers, etc. And when you go back live expect / be ready to be confronted by some unforeseen challenges. Summons the courage to “get up in your own face…”, to ask and answer questions that can’t be answered ‘analytically’, to carry the tension of the discrepancies btwn the trading you do and the trading you know you can do… and also learn how to really care for and take care of yourself... In performance work, we are always either in prehab or we are in rehab! ”The essence is the idea of learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable and having something to go to when the garbage hits the fan, because the garbage will hit the fan and let's be ready for it” ... the theories of Ken Ravizza, a professor of Kinesiology and author of several books on sports psychology.Mental Preparation in Baseball and Trading all the best, zdo

In TL, be sure to skim through the thread and discussions at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/candlestick-corner/4461-20-ema-patterns-18.html couple extra ideas on posts 140 and 141 … etc, etc. For using volume with pullbacks, check the contributions of dbPheonix herein. Note: For him they were not conceptualized as ‘pullbacks’, but his lessons of volume bhvrs. in these areas can be transferred to ‘reversions’ (…also a more ‘spacee’ discussion at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/10474-your-mean.html I can save you some reading that nonsense with these two ‘digests’ – >Find your own multiple ways of for “trading pullbacks intraday”. > In upswings, the angle of ascent is one of the best ways of typing / assigning probabilities to the nature of and extent of a 'pullback'. (v v descent for dnSwings) Also, fwiw, I trade ES instrument while using YM charts (with ES volume) a large percentage of the time. YM charts are more 'charty' to me - especially in the sub 30 minute time frames. Directional correlation is sufficiently 'perfect' for me... fwiw hth

reread this thread?! by a small clustrfk of posters who are somehow not “fooled by randomness” ?! or by correlation :snicksnick: … just shoot me better to wait a while and open a totally absurd new thread… and hope… “…just breathe…life’s like an hourglass glued to the table…” [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTb1jy-Vkmw&feature=related]Anna Nalick - Breathe - YouTube[/ame]

In TL, be sure to skim through the thread and discussions at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/candlestick-corner/4461-20-ema-patterns-18.html couple extra ideas on posts 140 and 141 … etc, etc. For using volume with pullbacks, check the contributions of dbPheonix herein. Note: For him they were not conceptualized as ‘pullbacks’, but his lessons of volume bhvrs. in these areas can be transferred to ‘reversions’ (…also a more ‘spacee’ discussion at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/10474-your-mean.html I can save you some reading that nonsense with these two ‘digests’ – >Find your own multiple ways of for “trading pullbacks intraday”. > In upswings, the angle of ascent is one of the best ways of typing / assigning probabilities to the nature of and extent of a 'pullback'. (v v descent for dnSwings) Also, fwiw, I trade ES instrument while using YM charts (with ES volume) a large percentage of the time. YM charts are more 'charty' to me - especially in the sub 30 minute time frames. Directional correlation is sufficiently 'perfect' for me... fwiw hth

Progress Report: Implementing Session 2 – mindfulness work OMG! – “adapted voices” (did you originate that term Rande?). They chatter on even when neither ‘I’ or nobody else either is listening! … and watching a chorus of polarities running on unconsciousness (too bad they ain’t runnin’ on fumes… ). Without intention, the players that show up is like selecting by cutting the deck. Sometimes voiceless, they show up unannounced to mess with what are more than adequate, time tested, objective measures… among them…wizard may show up, gambler may show up. And btw, as long as one is at choice even gambler can be ok, but is disastrous, though, if that is your default option (ie ‘I’ choicefully gambled three times in the last week or so by holding fx overnight with no stops – 'won' twice, 'lost' once… ‘I’ also did ‘crowd seer’ once and 'won'.) Speaking of gambler, ever notice how the desire to use chance to cheat/outrun time is what initially attracts so many to trading (and gaming, lotto’s, etc) RH has a good quote about that… I can’t remember it verbatim right now… maybe he can share it… must also mention … slipping back into mindlessness for hours at a time… how do you spell artiztik addik? Addicted artist? :haha: at this point though, I guess I’d rather be an addicted (to trading) artist than a drunk economist or even a drunk engineer... just some blurbs… yes it has sort of a wry, incoherent, shadowy spin for the readers … but here, the job continues to be to see things as accurately and as nonjudgmentally as possible... /// (not so) light reading - Eckhart Tolle Do you believe his thoughts on the individual and collective ‘pain body’?

…finally QE x.28… not announced as such, of course… Michael Snyder Also see 22 Reasons Why We Could See An Economic Collapse In Europe In 2012 so Fly little euro Fly! Don’t worry - just FLY high… will have stops underneath for when you come back down (and will also start resisting your little uptrend from above within the next 12 hours...)

One more time How and why is random, not random ("random-like") even an issue?

TheNegoc8r Post 30 http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/10728-question-randomness-4.html Let’s go up context a little bit – ... “dumb”, "obvious" questions, but in that spirit that I might learn something… Why do traders even care about random / not random in streams? Why do traders even care about random / not random in trade outcomes?

:helloooo: While you're at it, please report me and have me barred also... and banned too...I "have the wrong attitudfe" Thanks.

Playing The Probabilities – Blackjack, Shuffles, And Residual Correlations so for in our world, does a market reshuffle???????????? ... and if so, how ????????????????????????

charles hugh smith-Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 1) re “Debt that cannot (vs. “will not”) be practically paid is not a debt in its classical sense. It’s a default” So while “Italy is Going to Be Next” may not be next Italy is on that same list as Greece of states whose debts cannot be practically paid Spain…. list goes on and on and the list includes the U.S. … we are already in default :7x!: Are we in denial too? The only way any of these debts get “paid” is if the many countries on the list find a way to repay the debts with counterfeit money… ie the "debt" is never really going to get paid.

Thanks. :stupidquestionsmilee: Why?

Moody's: "The Probability Of Multiple Defaults By Euro Area Countries Is No Longer Negligible" | ZeroHedge :curiousgeorge: ... and what do you think will happen to GBP if the EUR poofs / collapses?

Over half of the posts on the pages of this thread are specious arguments. “Proving” that market participants’ returns are or are not random does nothing to prove that market action is or is not random… like "proving" the randomness or non randomness of local snow accumulation does nothing to "prove" that snowflake shapes are random or not random… and "proving" or "disproving" zero sum will take you no where in determining if the market streams are random or not either… talk about gaming our own minds, good lord… How many of you have considered that NOTHING is random – not even gaming streams, deals, spins, rolls, etc. … nor are streams that utilize ‘random generators’ … nor are particle, quark, and nuon behaviors…or multiverses, etc ? No process is random, but all of these streams are “random-like” – some more than others... Stick around a few years, you’ll see the new paradigm will be ‘market price streams are (only) random-like” zdo (and you can quote me.) Also, consider that the degree of market streams “random-like-ness” ultimately has almost nothing to do with determining whether one can extract returns from the game or any other game… I'd bet that last little bit of heresy will fire up some 'clinging to belief' reactions, too… ... so Horace, in simple terms... Binary option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... sadly it has no relevance to the topic at all... unless one is still trying to work out if a stream is either random or not...

I was just messing with Rande about the ‘geek’ work, but seriously there is the same type of ‘archetypal bringing forth’ potential in discoveries and development in our trading methods, systems, etc. work as there is in high performance execution capacities work. To prevent development and further entrenchment of limiting habit patterns, etc, it’s recommended that most traders focus on clearing the ‘fear’ based challenges first ie the level and type of work Rande specifies in his documentation and courses, etc… but… In essence, it’s also worth noting that ‘trading troubles’ is not the only area the growthful / non pathological aspects of this modality can help with… An "activate four" example at Innovation in Practice: Innovation Archetypes cc: Tradewinds

Rande, We need to do some "Mm. 'Nrichmnt" work for your 'orphend inner computer geek' re the yahoo group. First make sure you are signed in to your Yahoo account - either when you get to the page or before. Set your sign up options to let it sign you in automatically and when you get in the group save the group home page to your favorites, then you can just click that and it goes right to it.

"Call me a cynic, but there is something not quite right with the way the Eurozone are being squeezed." OP, The Negotiator …it’s SO-O-O not Italy And TN, why would we call you a cynic? You're just being realistic. What amazes me right now is the intractibility of the many to step and acknowledge real bear troubles... It feels like I'm living in a world of zombies sometimes... As the World Crumbles: the ECB spins, FED smirks, and US Banks*Pillage - Thoughts - Nomi Prins

Progress Report Just starting now to get some traction with applying the methods taught in the first session of the course. Finally got a personal, high quality, widely applicable 'safe place' established. First incident of ‘just doing’ the b. breathing and s. place without fishing around for reminders, etc. came early one morning middle of last week when I awoke around 4:30 am to a tug of nonspecific, in the moment at least, anxiety. This anxiety clarified a tiny bit to “something’s going to happen ‘out there’” and then I realized that I didn’t have at least an adequate mix of figures/emotions ready to meet it. Did doing the intervention method help? Yes. …not perfectly though as the results of the actual day unfolded… but still… Next step – improving mindfulness at the trade station. To my classmates, this will be a ‘non theatre’ (you had to be there) mindfulness … Light reading: Hal Stone, Sidra Winkelman, Robert Stamboliev, Tara Bennet Goleman (wife of the EQ Goleman guy?) Is this true? The ‘council of selves’ can be as unpredictable, uncertain, and inconsistent as the market’s price?