zdo

Tim, omg - broken record time again… it’s “system specific” ! ( more system specific than “…Riding a trend or the meat of the move…” btw ) …a disservice to the community… please revise and resubmit… thanks What do the numbers say? Have you thoroughly tested what happens when you exit via those methods you mentioned? For "meat of the move" systems have you tested exiting most of position via 'wave' counting (not EW, btw) and when swing count is sufficient go to 'exhaustion' PA at extremes of thrust excursions and then exiting the balance of the position via gradually 'accelerating' trailing stops? ie for your system, is it better to exit longs at the top of a channel than it is at the middle (or even worse, at the bottom) ? For example, exiting on the red arrow beats the snot out of exiting on either of the two blue arrows on the attached ‘detrend’ – especially when the actual price chart ‘trend’ is steep (as this example was). ie Exiting at top of channel might net more “meat” across time … it’s s_____ s_______ ! zdo

Thanks. I have looked at them … for me with TRYJPY in comparison to AUDJPY, etc they are all pretty correlated directionally in price… so more looking for sweet spots in the planned holding periods. ie it would be better for holding period in TRYJPY to be longer in relation to AUDJPY's, etc … full point difference in the spreads but (only , nothing to sneeze at) ~1.75 diff in the rates. Wonder why the INR isn’t more liquid / spread is so high?

... and out. (actually 80% out) ...mostly for moving funds to other opps right now... ie wouldn't be surprised to see USD go down even more in this pair for a couple more months. As I mentioned before, the daily interest in this trade far more than offsets additional transaction costs. Long AUDUSD, AUDJPY, NZDUSD, and NZDJPY, etc have also been a good trades lately but the daily interest, while good, is not great like in short USDINR ...same questions from OP re methods,etc are still open... thanks Have a great weekend all, zdo

"quit job to watch..." Why Do We Believe What We Believe? | The Penumbral Report

...folks, when grounded, sensible people like Levin talk like this...

zen^far Have You Ever…. wondered ?

If Holland leaves EU, will Germany have to follow ? :haha: hey, it's a zerohedge eurotrash kind of day 1.12 On The EURUSD Coming? | ZeroHedge

UNLEASH YOUR TRADING POTENTIAL zerohedge .. rather than arrest them for moral hazards created a hundred years ago why don't we just give them morality pills Are We Ready for a ...and more from zerohedge If only it were only so Jimmy Carter like…

Rande, not quite sure why you brought Heidegger into this? We’d have to fly the flack of forgiving him for voting for Hitler, and that would lead to dealing with forgiving all the ‘normal’ Germs who voted for Hitler… and that would lead to needing to ‘forgiving’ all the normal americans who voted for Obama… Can’t we just stay with Denise? Denise... with zero response time , zdo PS ...btw re "Your brain, unless you significantly redevelop it..." What does that mean? It was a serious question :helloooo:

BlueHorseshoe btw, I wasn’t singling out your’s or any other single post about It’s system specific!. If anything I was ‘singling out’ TL as the site that needs to move on from the responses so typically given in forums... to me it's better not to discuss it at all than it is too generalize about it based on unacknowledged individual 'emotional' predilections, etc... re: “Hopefully I made it clear in my post (the final para) that I wasn't doing this, and that I was fully aware that I was citing a specific example of a backtested system, and the limitations of doing so. The 'generalisation' comes not from that specific example, but from the fact that it is typical of the same tendency in the many hundreds of systems that I have examined. You say the profitability of scaling out is 'system specific' - but to what system is it specific!?!? Despite several days of pressing this question across two different threads, and receiving responses such as the one above, not one single person has responded by giving a concrete example of where the scaling out of profitable trades actually works.” Fair point... One example of an ‘excursion’ setup that I can quickly explain where scaling out has worked well for me is in Breakouts from congestion where the probability of some breakout is high but the probability of the move going far is low. Starting scaling out the exits quickly, placing targets short of the typical projected extreme of the (“false”, but not really) breakout and then trailing stops with increasing aggression as target is approached works better across time than does any ‘single exit’ strategy I’ve tested. (btw, in certain MarketTypes, subsequent reversions back into the congestion then a second breakout follows, and scaling out is not indicated / not nearly as productive…) ...This type of effort doesn’t have enough utility / is more work than most will tolerate / and or doesn’t occur with enough reliable frequency for most, etc. It is only ‘efficient’ for me because I can heavily rely on granular MarketTyping of the auction for guidance (and also I like it because it seems to happen when I need a bad day turned into an acceptable day, etc.) Again relying heavily on MarketTyping ‘cadence’, there are certain ‘reversion’ conditions in the indexes intraday where I can use envelope projections to scale in and out of short duration positions with better results (and lower overall risk) than I get with single level entries and exits. The upper end of the duration of such ‘cadence’ conditions is about 45 minutes and I typically can depend on going to the well only 2 or 3 times before other ‘forces’ 'mess it up'… hint hint - Placing time windows wherein certain PA must occur is the one common thread to all successful scaling in or out strategies ( in either 'reversion' or 'excursion' methods...) … these are the only examples I can quickly and easily explain … and even these two will be misunderstood or misinterpreted ...

I tire of going all broken record but, I thankfully believe at some evolutionary point, traders/posters in here on TL will finally realize re scaling: It’s system specific! To eyefeel, brainfeel or stat. rigorously 'test' a system (or even the range of parameters of a system), then generalize to all systems from that the merits of scaling (or not) in, as Kane phrases it, a “definitive, clear-cut, or irrefutable” way is ________, ________, ________ , and _______________ (you fill in the blanks. hint: the words or phrases for the blanks are all ‘wise’ – NOT!) Yet, if there’s one, there’s hundreds if not thousands of sincere posts that do just that kind of ‘blanketing’ – and it’s even worse on the other trading forums of this scale… I hope you can imagine my agonized screams ! Negoc8r, this is a great article! Thanks for sharing it. Reason: It introduces the concept of running multiple concurrent systems and scaling out (and in, btw) within the systems where it is appropriate and advantageous and within a range of options instead of to a fixed procedure. Built out, this concept develops to dynamic weighting to determine sizing for each member system and dynamic scaling in and out on the component systems where it helps with overall performance. btw … getting to that place operationally was pure hell for me...and… the worst in training is the best one can ever expect in real performance. Is it easy to adapt one’s brains to run multiple systems concurrently? No. Is it easy to adapt one’s brains to running systems that are incompatible to self - which at least always half are? No. Is it easy to move from the ‘blue' thinking level to the level of the ‘whole’? No. Is it easy to overcome resistance to ‘re-balancing’ adaptations from the prior cycle of training and make new adaptations? No. … to make the physiological adaptations that must come after the neurological adaptations? No. Is it easy to find or create the correct compensations for each of these 'excesses'? No. …Yet, from what I have seen in myself and others, this pure hell phase is the only way most of us can ever move into and consistently stay in the top 3% of traders!!!! Paraphrasing my flow coach: God comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable….if you are comfortable, you are probably making the easy, but long term, incorrect choices. I'm going to pull up my shorts from yesterday and get out of here. Have a great weekend all.

Alpari - "currency trading is a 4 gazillion dollar market" My impressions of the SOTU speech the other night: Obama’s (now too often used) mantra of “shared responsibility” is the 2012 equivalent of Lenin’s 1912 oft repeated construct of “labour discipline ”… “krugovaya poruka” in more ways than one, folks, in more ways than one…

Has anyone read that Rande Howell article Taking the Bleeders Off the Trading Mind . ? It's out there on this forum somewhere.

Actually, neither gamblers nor traders are “building populations of Jungian archetypes”… but the successful ones in both fields are either consciously or unconsciously ‘bringing forth’ a set of game specific, pre-existing capacities / archetypes / background emotions appropriate to the ever changing contingencies of the ‘games’. Ironically, in all gaming, the “gamblers” ie those predominantly expressing the gambler archetype and experiencing the accompanying gambler’s emotional mix form the dropping off loser pool and those expressing and experiencing the polars of the ”gambler” archetype form the pool of ‘winners’ (at the final table, etc.) … That said, I’m going to ‘gamble’ for the next 36 or so hours and short the indexes…:rofl:

Yep, as Rande discussed, the educational / enculturational system found a ready label in ADHD for all their efforts to turn the reactive kids (and 'normal' reactive episodes) into responsive kids (and 'normal' stable responsive states). Traders would be better off dropping all the ‘child centered’ stuff about it and searching out the related natural strengths within that are seeking expression – the primary one being to reconnect with those aspects of self where ‘circumstances’ really aren’t the driving force in life, etc.

The optimum individual path to trading mastery is rarely through the typical, consensus, “educational” model… yet almost 100% noobs come in fully ‘conditioned’ to that concept… and, initially at least, are eager to follow that path ... ... when that fails, ...and it usually does fail quickly, ... ... the educational 'system' of the trading world has no more real interest in inducting you into the top than does the current educational 'system' of the larger society... ... charles hugh smith-The New American Divide

Good question. but re "main symptoms of ADHD" be careful of oversimplification here. There are seven types of attention disorder and only a couple of them really feature those symptoms. mitsubishi, Can't remember his name right now but did you know there is a trading psychologist who at one point consistently asserted that MOST traders are 'attention' disordered ?

Chris Anderson, curator of TED TW (and readers) I hope this doesn't dilute the original msg... it just seemed related somehow...

hm… India… tangentially related … India Joins Asian Dollar Exclusion Zone -- Will Transact With Iran In Rupees - BlackListedNews.com Governments Will Allow Much, Much Higher Gold Prices Soon! Here

Thank you JoshDance Readers, be careful of crowds that do not differentiate btwn real trend following and fake trend following... :bakontopic: OP, If you have to ask... (OP, this may seem like a flippant, insincere reply. It's not... it is not necessary, although most still do, for a beginner to join the large loser crowd as part of your initiation!) Also, peeps, if you have to sim... (Again - although most do, it is NOT a necessity for a beginner to join the large loser crowd as part of your initiation!)

re "...if a psychologist has helped a trader..." In first name alphabetical order… personally, I know traders who were helped by Ari Kiev. (I think he’s a retired MD but not a shrink?) by Brett Steenbarger (psychologist for sure, major portion of his practice dedicated to traders?) by Denise Shull. (‘psychological’ researcher turned trader turned trading ‘sychologist’ ?) by Doug Hirschhorn. (Athlete turned psychologist plus trading psychologist ?) by Jake Bernstein (psychotherapist turned trader?). by Kenneth Reid (psychotherapist and trader?) by Mark Douglas (trader turned self educated psychotherapist?). by Rande Howell. (advertising exec turned counselor, portion of his practice dedicated to traders?) by Robin Dayne, for pete’s sake. (trader turned ‘coach’?) I don’t know any traders who were helped by Ruth Roosevelt… but (see below) she no doubt has really helped a few … by Van Tharpe. (psychologist turned trading psychologist?) … and I also know (for sure with most of them) that their ‘ultimate success rates’ are very low. I put ? mark beside all the ‘bio’s’ Also, not all of the above are ‘psychologists’ btw. But, after all these attacks, we’re also not really talking about psychology anyway! :crap: My peers, I’ve posted this multiple times now – the odds of a trader finding the ‘right’ ‘therapist’ for him are very very very low. It’s not the credentials or qualifications or ‘magic’ of the therapist that matters. It’s not the levels of commitment, readiness to change, etc. the therapand brings. Those things do factor in somewhat – but the pivot, the crux is on the MATCH btwn therapist and therapand… and the odds are low for good matches with ‘normals’ and even much lower for good matches btwn a therapist and a trader! Just some of the limits – 95% of therapists bring unconscious biases that immediately disqualifies them from ever really helping traders. Very few of the therapists who are free of those biases realize they are qualified. Very few traders really will understand what they need to work on with a therapist. Fewer will go through the discomforts and ‘risks’ necessary to get benefit. I can understand the attacks on ‘psychologists’ herein. But for me it’s not them. It’s the extremely low likelihood of finding an adequate match !

Progress Report: Now that I ‘know’ or at least have developed sufficient awareness of how the ‘players’ / factors (previously and) currently operate within me (along with hopefully adequate awareness of the accompanying emotional ‘symphony’), I am now beginning to implement the essence of the week 3 session. It brings a certain set of challenges to me individually, and I can imagine and empathize how it could possibly bring many varied challenges to others during this part of the process. ... "passion and gradualness" pavlov

jtrader500, Would you please open your own separate thread? I have some questions. Thx. Have a great weekend all. zdo

2. ie more on Rande (and other ‘professionals’s’) depth of real trading experience … Gosu (in post 137) mentions “no separation”. I couldn’t agree with that part more! ( I’ve previously posted about the ‘up the middle’ approach where every advance in method is signal to do ‘inner’ work and viceversa., etc) Yet, where ‘helpers’ are involved, I’ve seen a phenomenon and I’ve experienced it too (both coming and going) ---> ! The further a ‘teacher’ takes a ‘student’ away from the perceptual advantages and methods that are true to the ‘student’s own nature, the more “separation” is created! I mentor one experienced trader at a time and we have plenty to deal with without discussing edge(s). I have completed several relationships now with only an inkling of what the other’s edge(s) are all about! But, it’s a personal battle with me and almost every session there are ‘temptation windows’ where part of me is itching to insert edge advice (why don’t you look at ____ ?! or SEE _____ ?!!!!, etc) or dilute the charge with listening to him chatter about and us 'work' on his edge(s). So, in Rande’s case (and most other ‘professional ____’s), if he were significantly experienced at trading, it could also bring bias for his method(s) to each new relationship. It could subtly infect his gestalt of the client and corrupt his work with him. So far, in my experience of Rande’s approach, I’ve found that he teaches various protocols that the student must apply on his own and then offers progressively more depth and individual permutations the further the student goes with him. The work is primarily about the trader that’s comes in front of the tradestation and what he brings to the challenges of trading. His work is not directly about the mkts ‘stream’, reactions, or behaviors, etc. So, I’ll reiterate - if he could keep the development part very compartmentalized in his work with a client, then sufficiently extensive experience at trading would be conducive to building rapport with prospects. But in the actual work, his real trading experience is probably better left as a ‘null’. ps Now that we apparently have a lull in the 'destructions' ... from previous posts That was a serious question

1. Again - let's all be careful of the "if I don't experience it, it doesn't exist and cannot be experienced by anyone" bias. Some traders are more 'mammilian' than others. ie that's how some can benefit from Rande's and other trading coaches' types of protocols, while it's useless "tripe" to others... 2. re Rande's experience. I'm not judgemental about it. Some are. I'm sticking with my original thoughts on the matter... Rande would have much higher and easier rapport with 'us' if he did have obvious experience. ...Meanwhile, many, if not most, don't understand what he does grasp about trading Who knows? Maybe he does have experience and just doesn't disclose it... if he wants, I would be happy to show him low exposure ways of getting experience. 3. From the article (and from my post 130) What does "redevelop it" mean? It was a serious question. Way back in this thread I mentioned we are not talking about 'psychology' or 'trader psychology'. Gosu's and others' recent posts plus http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/11710-wrestling-emotions-capacity-change.html (wonder why negoc8r didn't just join in over here ? :rofl: ) all go directly to the heart of the same - just from different perspectives. What does "redevelop it" mean?