zdo

:haha: We should note for the readers that Mitsubishi is not typical. His trading is to the tick AND to the second

After that last post I have a… Curiosity Poll: Is this thread a call to action?

This post brought to you by the truth teams and pacs http://cryptogon.com/?p=27533 charles hugh smith-It's Not Just Gasoline Consumption That's Tanking, It's All Energy ...just my opinion here, but regardless of energy usage worldwide the Dow could ‘easily’ go on to and through 15,000 …’cause if it were an actual bull market it should now be approaching 30,000 in adjusted dollars… /// ...first time this type of content has ever shown up anywhere… Inevitable US, UK, Japan, Euro Downgrades Lead To Further Currency Debasement | ZeroHedge /// 20 Things We Can Learn About The Future Of America From The Death Of Detroit - BlackListedNews.com …stupid lists… /// After this one it's doubtful AR will ever collect payment from the sponsor :doh: 3-minute video: Obama rejects dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi; chooses war - Washington's Blog

... but, dang it, the greeks are not olive colored! :razz: Greek skin color is in the middle plus they stay tanned from exposure to the multicolored Sun(s)… uh oh, I forgot ‘skin’ color talk is taboo…on one side, it still triggers too many associations and fears of associations… in another way, mention of skin color still triggers that temptation to twistmorph comments into ‘racist’ when they really aren’t… like shapeshifting my posts into comments about peoples’ various skin colors instead of ‘values’ and character in general… oh wait, that last way is still PC… fire away! Back on topic… what color is it when, not if, gereece defaults ? (…as if they haven’t already defaulted.... Pictures From A Greek Soup Kitchen | ZeroHedge (…and as if this is really is just about Greece … "Spain Is Fine" | ZeroHedge )

Happy Vowlentine's Day, Sweetheart The Daily Bell - Is Greece a Sacrifice or the Shape of Things to Come?

To me, the parallel annoucements coming out of DC sound something like http://www.mimiarnold.cum/2012/02/13/263aa41/obama-administration-we-owe-the.html] Federali Tribe: We owe the world nearly $100 gazillion, and our republicans are to blame - DC.cum-[/color] [/url ... I was being careful what I asked for – traditional am indian ‘chiefs’ whose day to day decisions actually incorporated values that really included an act’s impact on the grandchildren / future generations --- really! ... ie Cypress is just an equivalent ‘white’ guy, disguised in red skin instead of black. His ‘educational’ track is not too dissimilar from BHO’s… etc… though I doubt his political leanings are anywhere near as statist and anti – capitalistist, etc as boy hussein’s. ... and he is not nearly the discredit to am indians as O is to am blacks

Similar threads... hey, at least it goes to OP more than my last post charles hugh smith-The First Dominoes: Greece, Reality, and Cascading Default

Markl67, in case you haven't found a job after all these years... TSA Help Wanted - hilarious satire animation about TSA perverts, Janet Napolitano and the Bill of Rights - NaturalNews.tv (... it must be a Very Important Job... else why USA censorship on the rise as YouTube censors video critical of government; Fox News pulls Judge Napolitano's Freedom Watch ? )

“It’s not here… it’s over there” ..or is it? Greece, on the street, … This Is What An Economic Depression Looks Like In The 21st Century - BlackListedNews.com not mentioned therein (not really mentioned anywhere much these days) but… the banksters' dreaded ‘deflation’ can only be postponed for but so long… Barack Obama: Let’s Steal 150 Million Dollars An Hour From Our Children :haha: Maybe we should consider making some real history and elect an old wise american indian chief as president instead of a white guy (disguised in black skin) ... I know, fat chance...

WWWW, bump ie forget all the "I am told" s, the vids, x atr’s, etc... especially if they are not proven stop strategies for the exact same system you are using (or if ?? they are the supposedly credible professional trading tutor’s compensations to take the “anxiety” out of their own trading instead of what is really best for their system) ie dig, iterate, and test out the system specific zones (sorry, no Black and White) that work for your own edge(s), and stay within those zones… and just be with the “anxiety” and dis comfort, instead of finding ways to prevent it. (...I’m not in full understanding of your system or the conditions under which you take signals, etc. … also without getting into the 'quality' of your channel... plus, my concepts of 'noise' are too out there for this discussion, but 'noise' is related... so take the following with a grain of salt ) --- anyways, from what I’ve projected :meguessing: about your system, I would suggest you test almost never placing a stop inside the channel - and Stop A is definitely inside the 'channel' … (ultimately it probably won’t,) but hth

Live accounts are the only way to test the strategy. If it’s not worth live forward testing, it’s not worth testing at all… sim puts all (except for a tiny few) into a false area of ‘tolerable conflict’ and then when they go live, they are immediately forced out of that false area of tolerable conflict. All that sim ‘practice’/ ‘fun’ did help, but realistically so marginally that it nets out to a big waste of time… all the while, these sims are building an internal neural 'network' that makes it progressively less and less likely you will be able to innovate new edges...it's unbelievable the number of developing traders I've watched 'fun' stroke themselves out of this business... More cautions: The majority in a poll will vote sim sim (… and, while it’s not a ‘causal’ relationship… ) The majority of traders are also losers. Said another way, the ‘many’ / the industry thinks that sim is great for the 'many'… when it’s really only great for a tiny few developing traders and is only truly useful practice for a tiny portion of the universe of systems... it's unbelievable the number of developing traders I've watched fun stroke themselves out of the business... ...yes, mohsinqureshii, I am trying to push buttons... not necessarily yours though... I chose long ago to internally question and challenge ANYTHING the majority believes and does … which way will you go ? All the best, zdo

us fkn btchz go all adhomino… ... the mind you brought to posting is not the mind that... btw…when it comes to understanding certain ___cepts (like “archetypes”), words on a page cannot convey the more in-depth nuance and meanings. Sustained work with them can actually be a more direct path than is a “direct "bottom line" path” … just sayin’…

“Hard” stop is now just inside the black on this position, but if I’m in front to the screen should I ever let it get near that ? No. An instance of same, contradiction-'free', principle of the OP question still in action... whether it's to stop a loss or 'keep' a profit, underlying system specific application of this type of 'contradiction' is to protect capital … ideal holding period for this particular position is until (centered around) noonish 2/15 and if I am present and in synch I should be able to cover it low and re- sell higher in the ‘channel’ at least couple times ( and also still stay prepared to sell into it “screaming upward” at some point … that's what I 'wanted' it to do in the first place... how come the market so rarely does what I 'desire' it to do ?? :missy: ) Have a great weekend all.

a smattering of moral hazards from here and there… sponsored in part by contributions from the ______________ Foundation… 10 Things That Every American Should Know About The Federal Reserve - BlackListedNews.com … it doesn’t really matter what the ‘leaders’ of Greece, etc. decide or agree to if even 10% of the populace decides to ‘default’ … same here in the US… Wonder how the ‘powers that be’ who are encouraging these behaviors Dick Bove On The Foreclosure Settlement: There Is No Sanctity Of Contracts; Only Fools Meet Their Financial Commitments | ZeroHedge will act when the moral hazards rules get extended by the peeps to not bothering to pay their taxes either?... charles hugh smith-Self-Interest and the Pathology of Power: the Corruption of America Part 2

No, everyone is now a miner (... almost - a few still are dentists… ) we are digging in the emotional darkness and the minds that entered the mines are not the minds that extract from the mines

I hesitate to say anything to avoid diluting any of these excellent recent posts… but, even though I would love to just reify them, we have to move on anyway… Predictor re “I think you're over playing the "system specific" recording” Hell yeh! It would suit me just fine to stop ‘overplaying’ it - if this community as a whole would stop ‘underplaying’ by continuing to spit out so many non system specific ‘truism’ posts with such regularity … BlueHorseShoe re “”would you say that there are no 'universal laws' that are applicable across all strategies?” I used to have more clear ‘Rules of thumb’ about where to begin finding the stop loss zone for a system than I do now. It’s definitely not a single variable ‘problem’. Predictor stated “Now, in general, mean reversion systems will do better without stops but momentum systems can in some cases benefit from stops” and I know what he’s getting at – but at the same time, the ‘reversion’ systems I use that involve channels/envelopes do much better with loose stop zones based on the angles of the channels, etc. than they do with no stops at all … another generality that’s became less than useless in my world. Some other examples --- Optimal stop zones for breakout systems really vary all over the board, so with any given system it’s probably best to test the whole universe of stop strategies with each system and include favorable excursion stats in the mix too. re excursion systems, I use three different ones and the stop strategies are widely, wildly disparate… no generalities would ever apply. Swing type systems also end up with huge diversity in optimal stop placements – and vary primarily by how profitable exits are accomplished. PriceAction type stops are a good starting place for testing ‘swing’ systems, but it would be a mistake to restrict one’s research to just that… Good ‘fake’ trend following systems, in my experience, to well with trailing stops… but my entries into these systems are heavily filtered by MarketTyping. True trend systems stop out at the point the trend really is negated for a trader (and reverse), this one is about as close to a ‘law’ as I can get. But, even here, the method for determining trend / entry methods creates variance in whether price based parameters (pivots, SR, etc) or stats should be used for determining if trend has failed… Bottom line point to be made with "it's System Specific" is test test test to find zones for your odds for each system... and use those zones, not points... it's easier and more real to develop expertise working with a zone / range of options than it is with 'tight' limited spots... ... the only 'universal law' I can ever think of is never let a position get anywhere close to a catastrophic loss. Saying this from other perspectives = pre define your risk (zones) and accept losses ie live to get different results on another day, etc = ie protect your capital. That’s best accomplished by capitalization, then fine tuned sizing, then finally loss exit zones (or points) Getting back to the OP question… Let’s say I’m rolling into a mid-sized short position in the indexes through today and tomorrow’s sessions (ie centered around today’s close), regardless of whether price is going up or down. I know by the stats what my zone for stops should be, but in the ideal I would be seeing the market scream upwards past where I would be getting stopped out of the initial loads if I use the stats. Why get stopped out if I’m still adding more shorts? So my ‘hard stops’ are deferred and arrayed far above the price action AND I would not let them get hit if I could possibly help it. My thinking - in this (‘bear’ :tongue in cheek: ) market, the chance of a purple swan event where the price separates up from current levels and ‘never’ oscillates back down to where I could get out at a normal loss are low… it’s a risk I’m willing to take… not comfortable at all with this little campaign, but I do know my odds, how much heat I can stand, and how little the absolute worst result could hurt… an adequate and current example of how those two OP conditions can be applied simultaneously without discrepancy.

mits, it wouldn’t take every single American . Essentially it would only take somewhere in the neighborhood of 3% of Americans to “BOMBARD the government” effectively… but for now .001% would actually participate… “culture-washed” PS MadMarketScientist did you get caught up on your posting yet? :haha: Spammer :rofl:

Tams, You actually tried to read this sht? Don't you have enough grief, anger, and fear in your life already? and when is now a good time to call Rande? You've been referred by Mits... :spam:

re "Predictor has given this same advice ... it is all very good advice. " Danger :helloooo: It is all very good advice for a set of specific systems only - not generally...

Why Our Currency Will Fail - Blogs at Chris Martenson http://www.oftwominds.com/blogfeb12/fractals-corruption02-12.html

UNFILTERED OPTIMIZED AFFORDABLE According To A New DHS Report, If You Love ?Individual Liberty? Of If You ?Believe In Conspiracy Theories? You Are A Potential Terrorist - BlackListedNews.com and / or http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/ter%C2%B7ror%C2%B7ist-noun-anyone-who-disagrees-government it's ok, just quietly stand by ... like they did over in germany in the mid thirties...

It’s "System Specific!" (zdo - scratched LP time again). Listening to posters and “Pros” who do not include the base system being used as part of explaining the stop loss methodology is sort of like being given access to the loss liquidation rules book used in Walmart’s inventory management and thinking you can now apply just that info and duplicate their results in total enterprise inventory management and avoid any pitfalls in your own chain. So, don’t be “troubled”. There really is no discrepancy ! Some systems do require a ‘hard’ outlier stop. Some systems require getting out as soon as the trade is not working. It’s system specific! The cases where these two ‘rules’ would be used together would be in systems where you never let your stop be hit… but you are also in a holding period for the position where you’re not always in front of the screen, so you set a capital preserving “hard” stop for when you can’t be present, etc. Let’s look at some of the other posts – keeping up front awareness that ALL of them are well intended. from Kiwi from SIUYA from Kiwi, about Predictor’s post from Steve46 These are ALL “system specific” replies ! :) . Now find out how similar their whole methodology is to yours to really determine if their discussion can help you with your risk management… from MightyMouse Yikes, nothing “system specific” ! For this particular poster, I would request he clarify for you his base method, then look at his posts in that light. from Predictor … and more not “system specific” ! and from Predictor. If applied to/within the same method, this is suspicious… but for some systems not out of bounds. If you can get at his underlying system… otherwise it's like retail chain inventory management using just 'loss leader' techniques… yada yada...etc. from Predictor This is one of the only valid overarching generalities we can make about stops and risk... Everything else - REQUIRE "S_st_m Sp_c_f_c !"

ONE CLICK TRADING From Charts and Dom The Fed is Engineering Obama's Re-Election Campaign | Gary Dorsch | Safehaven.com ... not to mention all the media gush over the "great" employment numbers, etc. ... not to mention the DieBold fix. I project Obama will win... generally, why bother replacing him since both he and Romney work for the same 'owners'...

:haha: ... that is an excellent stupid question (if I understand it correctly) … After considerable screentime and experience with simultatneous price charts and (any) oscillator, one can develop an eye for which retracement angles and durations will almost inevitably result in standard ‘divergence’ btwn price extent and indicator extent on the next ‘with trend’ thrust… ...ie and more generally, the formation (or not) of divergences of all types is literally in the math of the oscillator… ...can further the discovery of strengths and weaknesses of a particular oscillator and its parameters and also help with understanding the potential and limitations of conventional ‘stochastics’ processes in trading in general. hth

That’s really not much of an issue anymore. Germ, Inc. has long since joined the ‘race to the bottom’ from The Financial Crisis Of 2008 Was Just A Warm Up Act For The Economic Horror Show That Is Coming - BlackListedNews.com