zdo

Maybe start trading and learn as you go…? YES X That is precisely the way to get your trading education. The best way to learn any performance game is to play the game for real. That is the best, most direct way to finding out what methods align with your true nature, to find out who and what you must truly embody to have staying power, what you need or want to improve upon next, to find where your current ‘blind spots’ are. Uncover / learn the vision of the trading you really want to do by actual trading. If trading is really for you, the discrepancies that will blatantly appear will feed you instead of discourage you. The hard work is you finding first if, then how, you fit with trading these auctions. The way you trade must naturally fit with the individual ‘oddities’ of your own perceptual comportment. Once you get really grounded in how you see things, in what informations you are interested in / consider important, what type of trading techniques are right for you, then guess what!? the right teachers will appear and that money will be well spent! Taking the courses first is bass-ackwards. I personally think you would be better off buying $500 of lottery tickets than paying $500 to “a decent educator who has a very good reputation”… not because of the educator‘s intentions or lack of quality , but because there is such a low probability that what he is teaching has significant relevance to your own nature and the styles, etc you will ultimately develop if you are indeed going to ‘make it’. (ie... just because some find what they really want by the raw juxtaposition of their slowly appearing vision with the 'reality' of the attractive and inexpensive trade school they chose does not make this kind of $500 'education' the best way to find your way...) Life is short. If trading is for you, the average of 10,000 hours, (ie 3 – 23k hours) will be a labor of love and throughout you will be getting much more out of it than just the money... if that's not happening for you, find some other game to play. Life is short. "Find your own way!" zdo

I get it...you're above all this... it doesn't involve you... smith altmarket “...we are here dealing with a totalitarian state of which the philosophy included an utter contempt for the individual... any freedom of thought or action was inconceivable in the Aztec world... dependence and instability were absolute, fear reigned. Death lurked ceaselessly everywhere, and constituted the cement of the building in which the individual Aztec was prisoner... Clearly the spirituality of some aspects of Aztec life must have sprung from an old pre-Aztec tradition, later betrayed...” Laurette Sejourne (‘Burning Water’) The life of a nation, of a culture, is sustained by very few but very critical social circumstances. These pillars must stand strong, maintained with the utmost care and caution; as one would fight to maintain the beat of his own heart. If these vital foundations are dissolved or destroyed, the nation and the people contained within are subject to the most heinous of generational afflictions. The citizenry and all that nurtures their progress, begins to die. Slowly suffocating in a corrosive atmosphere of dishonor, men turn toward pure self interest at the expense of their greater selves, giving rise to hatred, desperation, and an environment of disturbed malleability that is easily exploited by those who seek power. Eventually, the entire edifice comes crashing down, sometimes so far into the pits of black and terrible times that it is all but lost, even to memory… As I look out past the near horizon of this time, and this nation, I see considerable potential for a revitalization of that which is best in humanity. I see a population that strives for independence. I see a return to the entrepreneurial spirit of discovery. I see unhindered freedom of thought and action feeding a fire of creativity that inspires us to unimaginable heights. I see new expression given license not just by the masses, but by structures of a government which truly follows the will of the common man, and not the will of an elite few. I see America breathing full, eyes wide open and alive. However, this potential future would have to come at a considerable cost. America has so strayed from its founding roots that it now hungers; starving for lack of nutrients from its natural soil. As with all other catastrophic societies of the past, we have been manipulated and conned into overlooking and over-rationalizing astonishing injustice and in some cases, unmitigated evil. I frankly don’t know what else to call it. There are some acts of malevolence that go beyond human weakness and inadequacy and reach into realms of calculation that are so cold, so soulless, there is simply no other way to describe them. These actions and attitudes tend to run rampant in dying nations but are rarely singled out and criticized by those in the midst of the great fall. Each begins with the loss of particular principles and inherent morals that are normally prized under more healthy circumstances, but are despised in times of chaos and uncertainty. This begins with the rise of moral relativism. All Is “Rational”… The concept that our inherent conscience should be set aside at times in order to achieve a “greater good” is a long running philosophy that has led to some of the greatest evils mankind has ever witnessed. From Plato’s “noble lie”, to Machiavelli’s politics of subversion, to the Marquis De Sade’s insane fantasy world without self limit; such men and those who adopt their ideals have proven that intellect alone is no magic ticket to a well balanced society. Indeed, intellect without intuitive conscience can be a tool for rationalizing the most horrifying of crimes. In America today, we have quite a few moral relativists at the helm of our government, and many more who would advise them. Ralph Peters, a retired United States Army Lieutenant Colonel and former campaign adviser to John McCain, known for his array of Islamo-fearmongo books and novels, is, in my view, a perfect example of the moral relativist in action. Talking points from his writings are parroted constantly by Neo-Cons and now Neo-Libs who feel compelled to defend Barack Obama’s continued blood-letting in the Middle East. Peters asserts that American troops and warfare tactics must become essentially as monstrous as the enemy we fight in order for victory to be achieved. This is excusable, in his opinion, because America is the “good guy”, and they are the “bad guys”: Countering Terrorism (Ralph Peters) April, 2004 Ironically, Peters often uses the example of Rome’s genocidal attacks on Carthage as a primer for his arguments, loosely comparing the “barbarians” of Carthage to the “barbarian” Muslims of his War on Terror. His position; that Rome was safest when they were absolute in their brutality. What Peters ignorantly overlooks (or perhaps deliberately overlooks) is that the fall of Rome was not hastened by outside “barbarians”, but by Rome’s own barbarity and stupidity. Rome’s elites provoked and gave birth to enemy hoards through their relentless acts of bloodshed across the known world over the course of centuries. America is set on the same exact path with the help of men like Peters; claiming that our principles stand in the way of our survival, and that all targets are fair game and all means are acceptable as long as we prevail. The problem is, as Peters admits, one should never declare actual victory in the War on Terror. Thus, by his own logic, there can be no conclusion, only an endless cycle of death perpetrated in ever more diabolical ways. Nations that take on this mentality of pure destruction without boundaries lose all high ground in the annals of history. It is not enough that a country or a culture should survive; it must also be worthy of survival. Recent debacles in Afghanistan, including the deliberate killing of 16 civilians (which I’m sure Peters would attempt to advocate), show clearly that the longer you try to occupy a foreign nation based on false premises, the more it will eventually start looking like Vietnam, along with the toll of madness and depression that overtakes soldiers after multiple tours of duty fighting a war that makes no sense to them anymore. Science Supercedes Conscience? In the world of Bioethics, Moral relativism has been refined to an artform, and the prominence of bioethical arguments is expanding considerably here in the U.S. The reason for this can be tied directly to the elitist adoption of environmental activism as a vehicle to promote morally relative social policies. The field of climate change continues to offer the most ample venue. If the very future of our planet is supposedly at stake due to the mere creation of carbon emissions, a product of almost every human action, then all aspects of human life come into question and eventually, lend themselves to taxation, regulation, and domination. Despite the fact that climate research labs like those at the CRU of East Anglia and NASA still refuse to release the source data for their experiments supporting their assertions that man causes global warming, and the fact that East Anglia’s rigged computer modeling methods were exposed through the Climategate emails, the Bioethics community continues to use manmade global warming as the boogieman rationalization for scientific tyranny. This includes suggestions of medicating the populace in order to make them more “empathetic” to the dangers of climate change: How Engineering the Human Body Could Combat Climate Change - Ross Andersen - Technology - The Atlantic The climate change dynamic invariably leads to calls for population reduction. Arguments have been recently presented stating that because newborn babies do not have fully formed cognition, they are “not yet human” and should be susceptible to legal abortion (of course, men like Steven Pinker, Noam Chomsky, Carl Jung, and many others have proven that there are multiple inherent qualities to children at birth, and Bioethicists have no idea how much of our personality is a part of that, but hey, who am I to argue with a Bioethicist): Bioethicists Argue for "After-Birth Abortion" | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth For the ancient Aztecs, high priests used the fake threat of the solar eclipse and the swallowing of the sun as a means to control the people and force them to conduct human sacrifice to satiate the bloodlust of their rulers. In America today, we have high priests in the garb of pseudoscience who use the specter of climate change annihilation to seize similar control and condone clinical human sacrifice to satiate the thirst of environmental elitists for depopulation. It Always Ends In Cannibalism… People eating other people is just one of those aspects of extreme decline that the collapse of civilizations seem to illicit. It goes against all natural law and even our animal instinct, but in a land where principles are rejected wholesale, it can become commonplace. Most animals avoid turning to cannibalism because their very genetics demand that they continue the species. This is very difficult to do when one’s own species is self consuming. Even if conscience were never a question (which it always is), our very DNA should prevent us from such activity. When it does occur, with extensive participation by the general populace, it is a sure sign of a culture on the edge of a full-on swan dive into epic seventh circle of hell-style calamity. This is why anyone should feel rather disturbed and sickened at the news that companies like Pepsi, Nestle, and Kraft Foods are working with artificial flavor manufacturer Senomyx, which uses aborted fetal tissue in the creation of its products: Health Freedom Alliance » Aborted Fetal Tissue Used to Test New Food Additives The Senomyx patents which include fetal tissue use (HEK Cell lines that express hetero oligomeric taste receptors) can be viewed here: Patent Database Search Results: Senomyx in US Patent Collection Senomyx and the companies associated with it have made a wide range of assertions surrounding this practice. Some deny fetal tissue is used at all. Others argue that it is only used in the “testing” of certain chemical flavorings. While the consensus is that human material is not actually present in the final food products of the companies involved, I find it a bit disconcerting to know that dead fetuses are being used to test better flavor enhancements for someone’s next soda or slice of cheese. Regardless of how you may feel about the issue of abortion, you have to admit that this lack of respect for human remains for the purposes of profit when numerous alternatives exist is chilling. This news, along with the revelation that hybrid rice containing human DNA has been approved by the USDA, tells me that someone out there REALLY wants the average American to dive into at least lighter forms of cannibalism: The rice with human genes | Mail Online Given these developments, it is only a matter of time before present technological food practices take another step forward into even more questionable realms. Is the “Soylent Green” method of cannibalism more acceptable than the Aztec form of cannibalism? No. Ultimately, both stem from a complete lack of regard for life; a regard that usually keeps societies from tearing themselves to shreds over the rolling boil of a stew pot. Moments Of Clarity Lost… The above examples of undesirable trends are only a taste of the stampede of modern tyranny that we must brace for and defend against in the near term. The most important factor of all is to understand why a social condition causes us pain. In regret, and in sadness, that which makes us human is most distinctly felt. Our inner voice, once lost or forgotten, is difficult to retrieve. The ease by which the darker side of life presents itself becomes enticing, and, the good we were once capable of fades. America (and the rest of the world) is at the most important stage of historical life; the stage at which the people choose to leave all reason behind to ride the mangling tides of fate, or, choose to stand and fight for a clarity of sight one could only define as individual destiny. Regardless of the circumstances we are eventually faced with, one difficult truth remains; without a sense of honor and principle, there can be no liberty, and therefore, no society worth a damn. Some see this as a handicap in the battle for transparency and truth in our culture. I do not. In the end, HOW we fight is just as important as WHY we fight. The example we set is just as important as the ideals we espouse. The way we live is just as important if not more important than the length of our time on this planet. What we leave behind after the dust settles and our land driven forms remain but cast shadows in the minds of generations we will never meet, is what makes us who we are. Anyone who says that the “ends justify the means”, is not serving the future, but the moment, and that moment will be harsh and fleeting… Smith Lost Principles And Social Destruction

If memory serves - By the mid 80’s, the Chi Board of Trade sold what they called Liquidity Data Bank (LDB) data which the licensed MP dealer used to build the graphical profiles etc. For the first few years, hardly anyone used it for trading anything but 30 Yr bond futures, whose volume at the time dwarfed all other volume on all the exchanges including the spooz. Steidlmayer and Koy, for whatever reasons, settled on and taught MP using 30 minute time frame… most likely because that was a practical / ‘sweet spot’ time frame for building profiles by hand – which most serious MP traders did then. A short time later live volume was included in real time feeds but… through the years, legal intellectual property threats kept many charting providers from developing more user defined / flexible ‘profiles’, etc... emphasis on If memory serves

Brought to you by... thought I saw a new banner, but no... Brack 'Black Swan' Author Nassim Taleb Cheers Ron Paul's Economic Platform on CNBC | Mike Shedlock | Safehaven.com Swan Track An Alternative View On Recent Treasury Weakness | ZeroHedge ie = equity drag racing ?? Crack U.S. E-Voting System Cracked in Less Than 48 Hours - BlackListedNews.com Stalin said WHAT?!?1 Frack Fracking Democracy: Why Pennsylvania's Act 13 May Be the Nation's Worst Corporate Giveaway | Environment | AlterNet you Wrack “…to remind all those newly refreshed consumers that for every penny rise in pump prices, more than $1bn is added to the household spending bill (assuming driving habits are unaffected - which brings its own set of unintended consequential events). And in the past month alone, gas prices have increased by precisely 30 cents…” ZH

If you or others find it best to leave the distinction between the two blurry, on a continuum, in your internal representations that’s fine. I can definitely see the continuum too. However, I’ve found it is best for me to make a very separate distinction between the two – at first because of my own challenges to include both and switching between the two. Then later through a increasing awareness of how watered down, pasty pabulumy, and “off topic” communication gets in discussions about trend in general... not very helpful ultimately in the Beginners Forum imo True Trend Trading -determine trend - to determine trend use the simplest, dumbest method you can imagine or as complex a method for determining trend you can devise… it must just be barely good, ie You’re method for determining trend does not have to be great! -if up, go long if dn, go short -(pile up the losses and) wait for outliers - period Trading With Trend -includes every method that in any way considers trend but does not necessarily fully and totally and completely depend on trend -includes trading in and out in the direction of the trend -includes trading with “trend” direction in the back of your mind -includes trading with “trend” direction part of the system … swing trading… top down multiple time frames… etc… etc… Entries and exits ( targets, stops,etc) are increasingly precise going towards the ‘Trading With Trend ’ tail of the ‘continuum’ – no matter how they are derived ( arbitrary, PA, divergences, statistical/quant, fundamentals, news and events, whatever) (… and yes a trade may, by chance, participate in an outlier move - but the day to day goal is to exploit day to day / non outlier opportunities) Entries and exits!!! Wycoff, Hershey, Williams… to name just three examples that happen to pile up huge post counts on TL…Gann, Elliott, etc etc etc etc and others, and some not so famous xperts don’t pile up big post counts in TL, but ALL of them (and all of their re-inventors) are going for one thing!!!! - Optimal entries and exits!!! …biases exuding all over the place going into a position …biases exuding all over the place going out of a position… …considerations of contexts going in, considerations of contexts going out …and, yes, “mindsets” are all over the place too. not two but thousands of different mindsets are involved here. Yes the mindset of True Trend Trading is different … but the mindsets of the thousands of varieties of Trading With Trend are all different too… All require different ‘mindsets’ because each has different heuristics. ...Ultimately, the ones who recover fastest win…(another dang ‘shortism’... a 'shortism' is a whole book in one phrase :lookout:) Holding period / time frame is not a consideration at all in the points I’m trying to make…. his “controversy” comes because he serially follows and reports examples of successful traders and managers (who got that way by mixing all the mm stuff in, btw – see below) and tries to make money off publishing about it. ie his “controversy” comes from sliding all over the continuum we have been discussing - without admitting it. his “controversy” comes because he utilizes stirring controversy, mixed in with ‘motivation speak’, etc. to make money off it… so, in my first post, I just noted that nothing more is to be gained from his published material than from ‘wizard’ books or any other books that happen to have the “trend” word in the title or subtitle or introduction with the simple statement / 'shortism' ---- “In True Trend Trading, outliers ARE the edge.” --- Obviously it was unsuccessful, but primarily my intention was to make clear that distinction between the two ways…and once you get that distinction you don’t need any more Covel … re… We further careened doubly off topic by incorporating all the various MM stuff. It started with compounding. I added sizing. Then came pyramiding, etc…just the mentioning of MM weaves it into the very fabric what noobs see and have to deal with… pouring in dye about the benefits (and perils) of MM tricks clouds things even further. I went back and looked at the posts and , for me. it’s still not a stretch to see how many could read into it “Oh, it’s MM that gets trend trading over the top” . See how off topic plus more off topic we’ve gotten in the Beginners Forum ???? I really made the outrageous “is no requirement to enhance, support, etc” statement to pull it back to just one layer of off topic. The intention was to separate edge work from MM work. Also, most of us are writing without an editor on TL… and a bunch of us go for brevity in the extreme ...sometimes. MM does makes a big difference in trading - not just in “many systems” or just in "systematic (and not discretionary)" systems – in ALL systems, including those way outside this topic that don’t factor in trend at all and even those that intentionally buck trend, etc. … However - (and this was also covered above) First, a system must have positive expectancy to be an edge. No edge = no survival = out of business. To discuss how fund managers, etc. benefit from applying various MM techniques in general does nothing to clarify that or add to the topic- because each edge itself generates its own appropriate MM aspects ie you can’t just throw MM in general at trading. The correct sizing, compounding, pyramiding, scaling tricks of one system will not automatically transfer to other systems ie.. Functional MM cannot be developed independently from an individual system / edge or a 'portfolio' of edges. “mish and trade – that’s trading” at your own risk. btw SUIYA, I’m trying to point something out to readers – not argue with you! So, noob readers, think about MM in general if you must … mish the tasks of edge development and MM development together if you like – good freakn luck :helloooo: … :haha: So would you like me (unsuccessfully for most) sum up all the MM books in the whole world??? Here goes another ‘shortism’ - As a trader, you may survive and profit, but you will not thrive to the top top pareto in trading without cutting edge money management … Unfortunately that one will not obviate your need to read and study the MM material, like my first “shortism’ obviated the need to read all the Covel in the world :roll eye: :rollbrains: etc short story... Engineers in a company meet to work out some details of one specific process. Because a bit of controversy is attached, some senior people show up - uninvited and unannounced, of course. After that issue is resolved, a group stays to discuss the direction the company is headed. Some see the choice as two distinct directions the company could take – functionally, etc. Others see it all as a continuum… no need for any re-vision-ing or specializing… it’s all just general business… Long story short - rather than stay on the question of the two directions, the conversation is pulled increasingly to the multitude of varieties and idiosyncrasies within just one of the directions. When some of the participants attempt to steer the conversation back to the central topic of company direction, the CFO and his posse step in to try to dominate the conversation with issues aout finance … feathers are ruffled, etc. etc. … stuff… corporate stuff… business stuff… “This is stupid” is secretly running through the minds of many… hopefully a few turn in resignations and go do their own more focused startup… it’s the ongoing battle “nothing is off topic in here. path of least resistance is how we roll” VS “don’t give the devil a ride, he’ll want to drive”

Imagine… imigrating to the Soviet Union... not :rofl: Is Ron Paul Taleb's New Black Swan? | ZeroHedge ...or we could just pretend todays bs is just another release In Today's Risk-Filled Markets, Can You Afford to Be Misled By Fantasy Financial Reporting? | ZeroHedge What media is not involved in willful, blatant lying now? because I love you… Is Red Meat - Or Fake Meat - Killing Us? next step 2084 Fed To Take Propaganda To The Schoolroom: Will Teach Grade 8-12 Students About Constitutionality Of? The Fed - BlackListedNews.com

… and fire… it’s not alive for everyone… but for some… Nikola Tesla (1856 - 1943) or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

Once In A Lifetime Live version: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-io-kZKl_BI]TALKING HEADS once in a lifetime - YouTube[/ame] And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack And you may find yourself in another part of the world And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife And you may ask yourself-Well...How did I get here? Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/after the money's gone Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground. And you may ask yourself How do I work this? And you may ask yourself Where is that large automobile? And you may tell yourself This is not my beautiful house! And you may tell yourself This is not my beautiful wife! Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/after the money's gone Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground. Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Water dissolving...and water removing There is water at the bottom of the ocean Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean Remove the water at the bottom of the ocean! Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/in the silent water Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground. Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/after the money's gone Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground. And you may ask yourself What is that beautiful house? And you may ask yourself Where does that highway go? And you may ask yourself Am I right?...Am I wrong? And you may tell yourself MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE? Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/in the silent water Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground. Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down Letting the days go by/water flowing underground Into the blue again/after the money's gone Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground. Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was... Composed by the Talking Heads (and Brian Eno)

more nit picking... I was already off topic from the OP / joining in the bashing with the statement "In true trend following, outliers ARE the edge" Our expansion into the MM aspects(compounding, sizing, diversification, pyramiding) is even further off topic Even if he covers MM in everything he releases, if Covel were reading this thread, he might bristle – understandably Trading With Trend the ‘many ways’ to exploit trends is Trading with the trend… ie Trading utilizing the trend it’s basically Trading (with whatever means puts you in what most likely is the right direction) ie the emphasis is on the ‘Trading” part… on trading decisions./ whatever to exploit the “many ways to ride/play/enter/exit a trend. depending on what you wish to achieve”… “scaling in out”… etc, etc the 10000 ways... True Trend Trading in true trend trading, the “trading” part of the ‘sentence’ has virtually no emphasis it’s basically True Trend Trading There are no “many ways to ride/play/enter/exit a trend. depending on what you wish to achieve” in True Trend Trading. There is no requirement to enhance, support, etc true trend trading with leveraging, compounding, sizing, diversification, pyramiding, scaling, SUIYA, I’m not criticizing your thoughts about Trading with Trend. I’m just saying for those readers who might be interested in Covel – everything after post 7 in this thread is seriously off topic and then quickly careens into mishing up / lack of differentiation between Trading With Trend and True Trend Trading... enough for me to nitpick for the noobs' sake. Why am I pounding on this distinction? True Trend Trading is the most recessive, undeveloped aspect of my trading. I am a Trading With Trend trader through and through… so … all the while I just ‘believed’ in true trend trading (before M. Covel was even out of high school, btw) My beliefs were supported by a great ride in the indexes through the nineties. But - belief is what you do when you don’t know. It took building cash / physical positions in the metals in the late nineties and watching them ‘outlier’ for me to know the difference between True Trend Trading and Trading With Trend … All the best

Good grief how ‘bout ? Unless you understand structure, actions, time, and relations You Understand NOTHING :missy:

This release brought to you by your own complacency… we're safe today but tomorrow could be a disaster - or given medium-term risk outlooks, short-term traders are the most complacent they have ever been. 3 Charts On Not Buying The 'Global Recovery' Risk Rally | ZeroHedge Why China Is Dumping The Dollar - And Why You Should Read Up on the Weimar Republic | ZeroHedge /// mploemint "How can an economy that is growing so slowly produce such big declines in unemployment?" The answer is simple Jon, and is another one we provided a month ago - basically the US is now effectively "printing" jobs by releasing more and more seasonally adjusted payrolls into the open, which however pay progressively less and less (see A "Quality Assessment" Of US Jobs Reveals The Ugliest Picture Yet). After all, what the media always forgets is that there is a quantity and quality component to jobs. The only one that matters in an election year, however, is the former. Jon Hilsenrath Is Scratching His (And The NY Fed's) Head Over The Job Number Discrepancy And Okun's Law | ZeroHedge /// This is far far too deep into the post… if you read nothing else… charles hugh smith-Money from Nothing: A Primer on Fake Wealth Creation and its Implications (Part 1) /// …”And before you forget, the president can now detain you for getting too close to his front yard, order your assassination if he considers you a threat and lock you away for life with no charge if you’re alleged to be a terrorist. You, on the other hand, can’t yell obscenities at Newt Gingrich without risking arrest.” … ... a mess only a teeny tiny few will able to 'trade' your way out of... /// I should disclose – I’ve been biased since before agent orange… Monsanto's Roundup threatens stability of global food supply

Precisely... re: Yes – for those who really thrive. Actually, due to the high loss counts, optimal sizing is much more important in real trend trading than “compounding” However, didn’t get into that because across time I’ve found it best during development not to co-mingle edge work with mm work … best to limit the ‘edge’ concept to the systemic – entries and exits... then, post edge establishment, to layer money management models (sizing, compounding, etc.) onto the strong ‘edge’ footing . re Real trend trading, sans any mm ‘tricks’, is an edge – provided the trader has enough staying power and a long enough life to wait for the outliers… Compounding into a negative edge – now, that would be ‘invariably dismal’ :doh:…. using sizing (and compounding, mm in general) to compensate for marginal edge(s) takes a very specific and extremely rare type of mentality --- not recommended for ‘normals’ and noobs at all… ...nitpickin... to "do no harm"...

:more hijacking and offtopic from OP: re Covel Want to save some time and money? Would you like me to teach you EVERYTHING you need to learn from all of Covel’s published works? Here it is - In true trend trading, outliers ARE the edge. ie a ‘real’ trend trader is not trying to improve entries, is not trying to prevent or diminish losses… he or she is simply entering positions with the trend and waiting for outlier moves - period… EVERYTHING else Covel (or anyone else) says about real trend trading is superfluous (however inspirational, motivational, etc it may otherwise be)… no need to spend time and money on his promotions, books, and courses

Forex Traders can still find opportunities. Can you? Let's pretend all is well Let’s pretend… charles hugh smith-Our "Let's Pretend" Economy: Let's Pretend "Job Growth Is Best Since 2006" :haha:and...Let’s pretend you’re interested :rofl:

Results of the survey are in! Here are the stats for the TL sample (for those who are face reading impaired, that was a :wink; ) 73,978 Do not use Elliott Wave 4 Use Elliott Wave in a supplementary, confirmational, etc. role 0 Use Elliott Wave exclusively "Nothing comes to a standstill sooner than movements that are brought about by so many people" Arnold Schoenberg For the 4 Which Method Can Traders Use to Confirm an Elliott Wave Count? | Elliott Wave International | Safehaven.com

I flipped out because this kind of conventional, broker/vendor bullsquat pabulum hurts far more noobs than it helps … seriously, it was not a personal attack on mohsinqureshii at all. Thanks, SIUYA for working and improving on them instead of just slamming... … these RULES were most likely originally compiled by someone who had just turned profitable in the last few months and who didn’t personally see the need for all 38 of “Gann’s” (really his?) RULES. now... Do I know jack? No, I do not know jack. Do I know Jack? I do and he told me that within a couple of years after publishing his ‘how I did it’ autobiography that he wished he could retract almost all of it … that what he originally thought were the reasons he succeeded turned out to be erroneous attributions! “Victory destroys knowledge” DanJohn "Find your own way" zdo

MUST ??????????? RULE # 1:USE MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE ????????? At first glance this seems like ok advice…Upon pondering though you wonder why they didn’t say – if you are undercapitalized, only use money you can afford to lose.. but then is it ok to lose it if you are well capitalized? Hell no! Becomes a short… wacky…truism. No successful trader I’ve ever known or was privy to the ‘real story’ could afford to lose their capital… This rule would hold more water if it were put into terms of how much of your starting capital can you “afford” to lose RULE # 2: KNOW YOURSELF These rules are no doubt coming from an accepted source – so it is no doubt good advice – like a dam Temazepam prescription! You do not need an objective temperament, you can not actually “control” your emotions... successful traders are not necessarily unemotional about their positions…. a “hard nosed type of attitude” is not a requisite ... More importantly - None of these things mentioned here are central to what Know Yourself really is... RULE # 3: START SMALL Seems like good general advice… but it’s better to start at your individually appropriate scale… which varies considerably across noob traders AND which is ABOVE sim for almost everyone ! RULE # 4 DO NOT OVER COMMIT A great rule! But - if you use any “rule of thumb” to determine the thresholds, you might as well go ahead and ignore this rule completely… ie use rules of thumb to start your testing – do not use rules of thumb to start your trading. RULE # 5: ISOLATE YOUR TRADING FROM YOUR DESIRE FOR PROFIT What? This is the perfect habit to build if you want to engage in perpetual personal oscillation. Better to not isolate your trading from ANY emotions, feelings, or desires… seriously. RULE # 6: DO NOT FORM NEW OPINIONS DURING TRADING HOURS. PRE PLAN YOUR TRADE A better rule would be to form your new opinions any old time you like – just be AWARE as you are forming them. RULE # 7: TAKE A TRADING BREAK: … as if trading work is the only work you ever need a break from??? btw: This one is the closest one to being an indispensable rule of all 15… RULE # 8: DO NOT FOLLOW THE CROWD. This rule is messed up by the assumption that there is a singular “CROWD” out there… you are internally already a member of several ‘crowds’ and in every trade you are going to be 'following' one of those crowds. RULE # 9: BLOCK OUT OTHER OPINIONS. Rather than resist other opinions, it’s better to just allow them into awareness without condition… RULE #10:WHEN YOU ARE NOT SURE, STAND ASIDE. sloppy bs … trading is far from surety. Go as close as you individually possibly can to uncertainty! Signal quality is not a function of signal clarity – many great trades have marginal setups and signals… and many great setups and signals produce marginal trades. If you need to be “SURE”, find another frkn game to play… RULE # 11: NEVER ENTER YOUR ENTIRE POSITION AT ONE PRICE System dependent – not a RULE you must follow RULE # 12: NEVER ADD TO LOSING POSITION System dependent – not a RULE you must follow RULE #13: CUT YOUR LOSSES SHORT System dependent – not a RULE you must follow RULE # 14: LET YOUR PROFITS RUN System dependent – not a RULE you must follow RULE # 15: LEARN TO LIKE LOSSES = compensatory, self – delusional bulsht... That's it for today..happy Trading

Dangerous Ideas - Blogs at Chris Martenson

Navigate the Markets with Confidence …speaking of neighbors and remote… http://cryptogon.com/?p=27944 Top 10 Genius Reasons to Keep Troops in Afghanistan - Washington's Blog charles hugh smith-Our "Let's Pretend" Economy: Let's Pretend Financialization Hasn't Killed the Economy Post EU rhetoric = Spanish hemp ??

Huxley to Orwell… Letters of Note: 1984 v. Brave New World Obama Promises Bunker Busters To Israel If Netanyahu Delays Iran Invasion Until After US Elections | ZeroHedge Miller's Genuine Draft: The U.S. Ready to Attack Iran According to Defense Secretary CHF, good luck with this ... Switzerland Wants Its Gold Back From The New York Fed | ZeroHedge … PS an optimistic ‘list’ is in this month’s Reader’s Digest ! My neighbor brought it over late yesterday... unsolicited... :??:

Excellent distinction In my own head, I like to tell myself that with my experience 1 I could start over from nothing / 5,10,20K – but in reality I would be jumping right into the middle of Taleb’s pool… 2 I could modify and adapt my “plan” to a small scale – and actually I probably could… but it would still be crippled by sizing limitations… this part would be more like jumping into the safe, shallow end of Taleb’s pool 3. that my “track record” means something – but in reality, at small scale so much can go wrong with one or a small series of trades and the consequences are much more ‘important’… deep end of Taleb’s pool ...net net I'd be right in the middle of Talab's pool with all the other 'jumpers'... re: luck, fortune, etc… are we, as Taleb says, fooled by randomness? Yes AND no. Those 3 out of a 100 that thrive in Taleb’s pool are ‘lucky’ (it just takes a few ‘lucky’ outlier trades) AND they also bring a differentiated emotional ‘field’ to the game to 'manage' those wins and everything else that occurs…

jmo Rande, but an article giving a left brain fly by of how you are using 'the archetypes' would add knowledge but no understanding for most and would actually damage the chances many would ever go through the 'progression' - whether guided or self directed... again just my impression, but I'd advise restraint ... ...your name is Rande Howell - not Randy Howl

Personlized services and education to empower your trader Commissions as low as $0.49 per side Geeked on Goddard » How big did you say that massive plasma snake…er, magnetic filament…on the sun was? so not conspiratorial… “At first blush, a man is not capable of reporting truth; he must be drenched and saturated with it first.” - Henry David Thoreau, I to myself: an annotated selection from the journal of Henry D. Thoreau, 1837. Thomas Edison, Thomas Jefferson on monetary reform - Washington's Blog … conspiratorial… Attorney General Holder degrades US to fascist The Era of the Creepy-State is Here - BlackListedNews.com …debt money charles hugh smith-Our "Let's Pretend" Economy: Let's Pretend Student Loans Are About Education

MIRUS FUTURES You Cannot Build a Strong Economy or a Bull Market on Fudged Numbers and Lipstick | ZeroHedge A sign in an airport somewhere – somewhere nowhere near ellis island or even the U.S.A btw “Give me your brains, your ambitious.” Guest Post: Enjoy The Central Bank Party While It Lasts | ZeroHedge :haha:… this sounds like Rande Howell – but it’s not … ;) :rofl: “Emotions exceeding known parameters cause extreme events, such as stock market booms and busts. They are self-reinforcing spirals upward and especially downward that, once established, keep diverging from equilibrium until the driving forces fade or stronger counter forces reverse them.” Lombard Street On Computer Models Versus Looking At The Facts | ZeroHedge I’m being far too morbid… time for something to cheer you up 15 Potentially Massive Threats To The U.S. Economy Over The Next 12 Months - BlackListedNews.com

No, I only go “simple” when I’m forced to by low coping or mental energy,… I naturally tend to complexity. …ever wonder what happened to our OP? …wonder why he asked the OP ? ? …wonder why only one of us, Obsidian, has categorically answered his YN question. The rest of us have hem hawed around with it... My basic point was to answer OP’s question. An answer of quality would have been a straight up “No” – but I went off with some “quality BS” ( re “quality BS”, see http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/money-management/12243-drawdown-2.html#post141015 ...TL would be much better off, imo, if we all put our quality here and put all our BS and “quality BS” over on ET or some place… me, included… I estimate less than 10% of my posts are really of quality… and even that estimate may be generous self delusion) not just “fanatics” … all bonafide Elliotticians ‘believe’ a wave count is present… during pure impulse monowaves where they obviously 'know', of course, but also even in complicated corrections when they can't definitively come up with more than 2 or 3 alternative counts. Dedicated Ellioticians must be prepared for impulse waves so they must delve into the complexities. To a ‘true’ Elliottician - EW is “working” all of the time... Along those lines, is it really helpful to dabble? … to use EW “when they mesh with other indicators” ? … to have a trade supported when “see something that [agrees] in the context of other things”, but not counting the ”inner waves”? … to “adapt the basic idea” ? ... to accomodate superficial 'EW' as an ancilliary construct ? just wondering ???? On some levels this is a confusing thread... more at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/9763-advice-all-stop-fighting-trend-3.html