zdo

ditto Tams like how many in N? if it's only two A and B then you don't need loop, etc. pls post the code you developed from BHS' suggestion (leaving out how you're getting X if it is proprietary...etc) his 'logic' is sound so we may be just looking for a bug

johnw - "shrink The Elephant and Increase The Rider " doesn't make me feel better already translation is johnw - "shrink The Elephant and Increase The Rider " doesn't make me feel better already ;wink Beyond what I've heard in here, I don't know that story and I don't understand the metaphor for sure...plus the Twitch authors could have been using it differently from the way bodhi was using it. etc etc. ... and personally, my daddy was from the bud side of the mountain and my mama was from the tao side ... so while making the man bigger might be ok, some severe reservations wei wi up when we start talking about shrinking an elephant... (btw, that's a :smile for our emoticon challenged friends herein) ... Can you describe people balance a little bit more (maybe best in a new thread) Thanks.

The Low of a Bar is Meaningless :missy:

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charles hugh smith-The Imperial Presidency

SUIYA, No, unfortunately I have not read the book Switch yet… will add it to my list. I have seen similar references to 'rider (rational) elephant (emotional)' … and since it is a ‘budha’ story I would have to question ‘who’ the rider and elephant was in the original before being able to comment much beyond… over time in my own world, the moorings to hemispheric constructs have been eroded and jerked out, etc. … also, I tend to have immediate issues and start looking for the unstated, mediating ‘axis’ shortly after such dualities are presented. So, to answer your questions, SUIYA – I can’t be sure I’m talking precisely about the same thing … it’s all related… …limits of language etc. --------yes - “kinda” would be safe... kinda little bit not much maybe:roll eyes: “The enemy is denial” Dave Grossman. In mainstream pop trading psych. ‘discipline’ gets big time emphasis, but in the path I’m on it is a capacity that should only be called upon a couple times a month…so in this thread I’m really talking in the backwaters. The larger topics / contexts are much more important. And within those confines, my point in this thread is simple – disproportionate ‘discipline’ reinforces dysfunction. ... ~3 in a 100 will drop the pop crap and really go for effortless high performance…they really get it that the pressures to perform NEVER dissipates, but that paradoxically, performance cannot be forced… along those lines... (while maybe it’s not part of the story you’re referring to) sadly, the real potentials of the ‘elephant’ can also be significantly restricted by the desires and tricks of the fkn ‘man’... (and, no, johnw - "shrink The Elephant and Increase The Rider " doesn't make me feel better already ) But, whether he is talking about the 'story' or not, johnw’s pointing to ‘clarity’, etc. could stand more personal exploration by the few who are committed to these ways... I use the term ‘flow’ for the experience (and be careful of limiting your exploration to the rather narrow, mental, Csikszentmihaly, pop, et al, utilization of the term) ...

With Ohio This Election's Deciding State, Here Is The Truth Behind Its "Jobs Miracle" | ZeroHedge What if the presidential counts are too close to call again? :crap: ... and btw, guys, they DO have the same puppet masters... and they ain't lobbyists... ... denials... ...cynic sisms...

Hi PQL You should get together with BobC's Lunar Module... :rofl: bobc, I couldn't resist

I personally came up via the standard habituation to edges and extinction of maladaptive bhvrs model. I saw through the ‘d’ trap faster than most – but still stayed in this whole ‘discipline’ muck way too long… Discipline is NOT enough to succeed! It is far from enough! Very generally, ie in most instances ... (example: like most of the members of Steve’s class as a sample at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/14467-discipline-enough-succeed-7.html#post165446 – …and, btw, not picking on you Steve46 – bcse what you’re putting them through is a necessary stage – but to help those who see through a little bit and really want to overcome the confirmation biases so rampant in trading pop psychology ( even among those who don’t ‘believe’ in or ‘need’ any trading psychology.)) ... anyways to start again... Very generally, ‘Trading Psychology’ is a trap! “All you need is ‘Discipline’’ is a trap! ‘Trading with discipline’ does not accurately describe reality any better than the freakn economic models accurately describe economies! I’ve seen classes like Steve’s. Sometimes it looks like the whole class gets it… sometimes most of them apparently get it… and sometimes only a few --- but the painful fkn reality is that none of them really ‘get it’… after they leave. The sympathetic nervous system is not availed the information to differentiate between true physical threat and false symbolic threat. Taking ‘discipline’ home with them ( or back to their office, in the case of his classes) will not train them to detect CNS fatigue (not muscular fatigue, like in the boxing examples , but with similar, more subtle, dynamics that are much more difficult to detect real time), etc, etc. NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY HAVE CONSCIOUSLY COME TO BELIEVE IN THE ODDS OF THEIR EDGE – they are no where near ready to avert tanking(like Ali did in first Spinks fight), turning negative / losing confidence, choking (like Foreman did in the examples just above). These are distinct traps that the students will not be able to cope with consistently. Their managers, not the students, will vigorously have to intervene and prevent consequent mistakes and losses. Conscious application of ‘discipline’ will not prevent a trader from going into sympathetic arousal. By the time a trader needs to apply ‘discipline’ to follow the system / stick with the plan, he is a already in sympathetic arousal. Discipline will not really help one effectively cope while in sympathetic arousal – ie long term, reliance on ‘d’ is counterproductive in developing skills to recover back underneath sympathetic arousal threshold … And most importantly, the “DISCIPLINE to trade the plan” as discussed over and over over and over in trading forums contributes to forming even less adaptive ‘structures’ for future challenges… leading to bound flow

My sentiments (NOT) exactly (but very close... ...for one, they too are still using the 'd' word way to broadly...) :spam:

From the replies in all these ~30 pages, it appears your earnest effort to carefully structure the content and wording of your original question did not matter one bit … joshdance, would you share (if you have time and energy) if you’ve ‘learned’ anything valuable re your original question from the replies in the thread …and what. ...and do you still have questioning re the topic? Thanks.

fakebook...falue charles hugh smith-The New Facebook Buttons: Promote, Despise, Abandon

because ... weil es ist dumm :rofl: ...suppose each of us created our own close. oh wait - we already do that now... …still darkness forever Everything to the left on your chart is free information but it only includes as many closes as there are ticks in everything to the left on your chart...be careful how many closes you include to the left. ...and every market does currently have just one bar - on a timeframe that is the life of the instrument... and that timeframe is no more or less ludicrous than any other timeframe / representation in use...

Exactly. An investment is capital into an enterprise that you are willing to materially participate in to make sure it succeeds... everything else is just a trade... :haha: LiquidCourage This - As Redemptions Surge, The Dreaded Hedge Fund "Gate" Is Back | ZeroHedge is one of the primary reasons why I haven’t been in any managed money (except for relatively small exposure in two mutual funds) for years and years now...

Negociator, Here it goes again I can’t make a response that I can live with unless I reframe your ‘questions’… question your precepts... etc. Do you mind? Respectfully, zdo

TRO, At your level of development you might be better served checking how many of those ‘types’ of trader you can evoke, bring forth, embody, etc. on demand – instead of just surveying which type you ‘are’ … just a thought… All the best. zdo

Way back at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/12081-close-bar-meaningless-13.html#post139913 I was praying that Thankfully, I doubt we have ‘influenced’ anyone… :crap: 27 fkn pages later What we have done is come closer – closer to ET than ever before in the whole history of this forum… Is there any way the mods could drain this thread from TL and tranfuse it in its entirely into ET?

omG [27 pages of the same crap over and over]

mechanically ??? "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” – Albert Einstein “To trace something unknown back to something known is alleviating, soothing, gratifying and gives moreover a feeling of power. Danger, disquiet, anxiety attend the unknown – the first instinct is to eliminate these distressing states. First principle: any explanation is better than none… The cause-creating drive is thus conditioned and excited by the feeling of fear …" – F. Nietzsche “Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world. Mortal or immortal, few really ask. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown the answers they have already shaped in their own minds – justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind. The answer may annihilate the question and the questioner.” – Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat )

Refining the use of the ‘d’ word… ’discipline’ is not needed unless there is conflict, and by in large, those traders who are “printing five figures a day” only rarely have to use ‘discipline’ to stick to their trading plan… and Yes, if one of them is pressed to explain, he might even use the ‘d’ word … basically trying to say what he thinks the asker wants to hear though … and only because he does not yet have language or concepts to articulate what is really going on. Please make up your mind … unless you are trying to say ‘money management discipline’ is 99% of the game.

well, eXsCUuZe me ! Actually, my (rapidly fading) personal ‘commemorations’ of that 'time' is always of the Thursday afternoon of Oct 15th ....and what I 'knew' ...and what I did and didn’t do on that day… Obsidian - I remember Oct 28th, back in 1929…

... was just skimming http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/money-management/14530-position-sizing-diversification.html ... someone mentioned TIPS Easing back into a short USDINR position Currently at ~ 5% loaded and orders resting above and below… Have a great weekend all

Hey folks, Here we go… :rofl: ...and remember - “…Sometimes someone can say something very different to what you've interpreted…” … and In typical zdo fashion I don’t have time to build a good case or to explain it fully or even adequately. … and in a fashion atypical to a ‘laboratory’, I will assert though that the best sample size is a sample size of one – You. One consolation: don’t worry - you would only get this kind of reply from one in 10000 ‘psychologists’ or trading coaches, etc. In the modern paradigms, the “mental” aspects have taken ascendency. “Relax", "de-stress", "meditate", "stretch", "get in shape" yada yada … ‘Medicate’ / suppress your symptoms so you can fix your thinking. Fix your thinking and you have fixed your life… yada yada… In my experiences of the last decade, all that misses the mark Instead - here we go… Short answer = “Thou art that” Only when you be, feel, think, and sense that seamlessly do you get closer to seeing things as they really are. A longer (but still very incomplete) answer = The Body In the modern world, the most dominant obstacle is the body. The primary, (unapproached, avoided, unconscious) element in the body is compromised biotensegrity of the various types and ‘bags’ of myofacsia that develop from adaptations to threats and stress. Bound flow in the myofascia spreads to create structural malformations…which leads to degradation of functionality in perceptions and muscular and neural performance... Again, I’m not attempting building a solid, influential case for this… If you want to explore this in detail see the works of Stephen Levin, Thomas Myers, Stanley Keleman, etc. If you want to skip investigation of the theoretical bs and begin actual clearing work, PM me for an unaffiliated referral. My point herein is that each perception, each ‘neural chunk’ is made up as much from movements, proprioception, patterned reactions, centered ‘out’ in the body as it is brain processing of sensations like sight, etc., thoughts and emotions. These residual tensions, fear reactivity, sensory motor amnesia, having “chair shaped” front and back ‘lines’ etc, etc block flow. Flow is our natural state… our birthright… which we give up gradually… and which is our responsibility to reclaim… and only in flow can we see the world as it is. Note: Don’t confuse the content above to be about flexibility, relaxation response, etc etc, or ‘fitness’ as it is currently defined… or limit it to the 'flow' of Csikszentmihalyi... and it is not ‘martial’ either (… although much can be garnered via the ‘martial’ . In flow, styles become indistinguishable.etc etc…) The Brains Our wonderful capacities to generalize, build off previous similarities and differences experienced, see ‘trends’, tendencies, etc, etc. in a stim filled world can push the more simple, pure awareness – simply seeing what is with ‘new eyes’ – into a recessive, rarely activated, mode. Practicing mindfulness gets us to where we can see in real-time how and when we have learned to rely on our concepts of reality more than our observations of reality. Mindfulness is a choice to become aware of and break the loop of inevitable confirmations you will find if you are examining reality with a preconceived idea of what you will find. It is a choice that takes about 1000 - 10000 quality tries before it starts to get some sustainable traction. The concepts and projections, and predictions continue, but they can, when needed, be left more in the background. Also and unfortunately, the exact same capability that makes our analytical brains perfectly suited for its deductive reasoning tasks makes them completely vulnerable to being deceived into thinking they can judge right or wrong, good or bad. So certain ‘parts’ of our brains (without getting all ‘hemispheric’ or ‘religious’ btw) often conscript ‘judging’ as a role. But whenever we try to be the analytical expert on what’s wrong with something, we are blocking our capacity to 'see' reality as it is. The analytical brain’s role is simply to present to the whole a representation, an as accurate as possible replication (sorta like holographic ? a duplication ?) … another skill that takes about 1000 - 10000 high-quality attempts to advance from the ‘cognitive’ level of performing a task to the ‘associated’ level where the process begins to become automatic in nature. … and, btw, 'personality' is potentially a hindrance, but only a minor one. ...and emotions - once the blocks are cleared are also and usually only minor obstacles. … the task with them is to simply bring the lucidity and adaptation enhancing ones to the training (and living and the trade station, etc) … a “team”, as our ‘psychologist’ friend Rande H. calls it, of the best emotions to put out on the field... then, emotional 'reactions' become valuable 'soft' data sources... not obstacles... The ... Progressing along … starting in utero, as we ‘co-create’ our 'self ' / as we ‘leave’ unity… we make “decisions”’ around polarities that, unless neutralized, cancel our ‘seeing of the world as it is’ for our whole lives. Neutralizing your individual set of these polarities opens up domains that normals consider to be metaphysical or supersensory, etc…. but really they are normal… not meta or supra at all… notice above I did not use the word Mind at all… the real Mind is one of those realms… Soul is too… Spirit,too… none of them are ‘special’… Again, this is not the place or the audience to ‘explain’ ... Anyone who has questions, PM me for references and referrals. As the rap song goes “You can take the bitch out of trading… but you can’t take the bitch out of trading”

re: "How do you get closer to seeing things as they really are?" going out the door in a few minutes ... will try to post a reply tomorrow ...

Hm - and this is coming from a guy who said: "...In the same way that pointing out that you need to find a strategy that fits your personality* (which also is kind of silly imo)..." :rofl: ;razz; re: "... Is it ____ ? Is it ____? ..." It's all of the above and more ... and you forgot 'Is it beliefs?'... 'believe what we do when we don't know... We cannot possibly come to the same "conclusions" if we can not possibly form the same neural 'chunk' for a perception of an event as someone else. ... and further... We can never experience / see the "'world"... we can only experience / see our representations of it. The work is bringing those representations into closer and closer alignment with 'reality' - so that our acts take on qualities of incisive clarity and mature 'power'. “Find your own way” is a primary choice … once that choice is made, making the secondary choices to orient twds consciousness via mindful awareness becomes increasingly seamless ie needing to stop caring about how someone else is ‘seeing’ and "concluding" (and knowing, and sharing, and understanding, and teaching, and trading, etc etc) becomes progressively rarer. *personality - one more time... it goes far beyond personality... :haha:I believe the use of that term herein is revealing of limiting beliefs