zdo

paraphrasing Faber To Shiller: ?You Keep Your U.S. Dollars And I?ll Keep My Gold? | Zero Hedge In response to a question from Yale University’s Robert Shiller querying the recommendation to hold gold, Marc Faber said: “I’m prepared to make a bet, you keep your U.S. dollars and I’ll keep my gold, we’ll see which one goes to [worthless] first.” Shiller, who is the co-creator of the S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values, responded "I'm inclined to think gold prices after this crisis might return to a lower level" ... I'm confused after what crisis ???

An Elliotician asks another Elliotician "Is an Ending Diagonal completed?"

"plenty ways" ? ... such as ???

‘Back in 1774’ those chumps were working on a concept called Natural Law … with MM and Tams leading the way, we’re way beyond that ignorance now. ‘Back in 1874’, well intentioned, hypocritical old ladies (… they were hypocritical because they didn’t really care at all about the colored drunks dying - just their young ‘lads and ladies’ who were being morally sullied and made promiscuous by booz. – no modern day parallels here) . It took them decades, but their dreams came true… they got the ‘bad objects’ made illegal. Now, with MM and TheDude applying the same fervor in leading the way, we have an equally effective campaign of ‘prohibition as prevention’ under way with weapons.

Ok I will accept your replies as confirmation that the apparent hypocrisy is not based in racism – at least not the conscious, truly vicious kind. I never really suspected it deeply anyway… but we can’t be afraid to question. I was not using ‘racism’ to try to win the argument. (Ironic, but once ‘race’ was brought up all the other points in the post were ignored… so, apparently, that subject is not as inert as we would like to think…anyways) I was, and still am, questioning what lies behind your crowdlike emotional passion for To Disarm... it got 'buried, but also in that post were some ‘metro’ comments … another ‘answer’ to my questions may be something as ‘simple’ as the old rural vs urban orientation. Why collectivism is doomed and the next great crisis will massively shift America toward conservatism Donella Meadows

Against whom? No one was attacking you. … especially until you started interjecting yourself into the ‘conversation’ with 'possible interpretation' posts for questions to OP, or my 'messin with' TheDude.... plus you weren't coming down on either side. Why the hell are you defending yourself ? "...Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep ..." It’s 1774. You live in Boston. SIUYA, would you be a rebel or a tory? Here’s some 'excess know how' reading for you. Amazon.com: Resistance to Tyranny: A Primer (9781450574280): Joseph P. Martino: Books

If we tell a lie (or in this case, use a statistic to argue causation) often enough, it will become a ‘truth’ ... and then we infer to those with "selective amnesia" that guns ‘off the streets’ as THE reason for NYc’s suddenly civility? … just as likely are that the crime organizations are more ‘mature’ in NYc than they are in ChiTown… … in any event, other “violence” aspects of culture not sufficiently factored in these 'statistical' comparisons.. plus … ignore stats on much more dramatic drops than in CHiTown or in NYC in cities where concealed carry laws where streamlined (Richmond, VA, etc.) … in any case, guns in or out of the hands of regular citizens certainly doesn’t have as strong case as a major ‘causation’ factor as the one the To Disarmr's are wishing to build… lies, dam lies, and statistics A while back in this thread, major arguments were based on US Aussie comparisons. whoops! Australians Own More Guns Since Strict Gun Control Laws Were Enacted ..and No, I don’t care about or trust these 'stats' either. I’m just using them to show that all the ‘causation’ arguments based on stats are shaky at best. ie I don’t ‘trust’ any of the stats used in this thread to build a case – pro or con Arm. ... ie I don’t trust when posters turn to stats in this argument.

Raise the question that racism of the apathetic kind might be behind the hypocritical complacency and good lord look at the deflections that go flying about. But my intention was not to stir controversy. It was to question the validity of "It takes getting hit close to home" as a basis for the To Disarm position. George Bernard Shaw once stated, “The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it.” Join in with others justifying emotional basis - but it's still emotionally based crowd behavior. There are a few other explanations we could explore about the apparent hypocracy of To Disarm crowd but first let’s push some buttons. The racism card can NEVER be allowed to go both ways! ‘Metro man’ will adamantly assert that racism has nothing to do with his getting swept up in ‘controlling guns’ only when it ‘hits close to home’ / little white kids. But just a few posts away he will be associating the To Arm’s with nuts and racists… self righteously noting how much more refined he, the ‘metro man’ is… Meanwhile, in reality, the ‘deep south’ dumbass has come MUCH MUCH further in dealing with the inner core issues beneath racism than has the urban ‘metro dude'. He will be insinuating about how much further those ‘racists’ in the south had to come, etc etc. But, did they really have THAT much further to come than their counter parts in the north? Study Abe Lincoln, one of their champions. His writing and speech in the 1840’s and 50’ indicated he was quite ‘racist’ ie probably the only reasons he didn’t own a few slaves himself was that he lived in a non slave state - plus he simply couldn’t afford them. It will be interesting the ways, beyond the sheer indignation of course that The racism card can NEVER be allowed to go both ways!

SIUYA, I do appreciate your curiosity and button pushing re American culture and guns … even though most of it is just ‘word twisting’… like Raise the slightest question that racism might be behind the hypocritical complacency and -good lord! - look at the deflections that go flying about. … and the real ‘dishers’ haven't begun to redish yet… No. Again - “calling for peaceful solutions” is mental masturbation – an exercise in propositions.In real life, “peaceful solution” is not necessarily the way to go in individual situations. It may not even be available as an option. Nor will “peaceful solutions” / prevention will come from Washington … if you think they ‘solved’ slavery, think again, there are now more ‘slaves’ per capita on this planet than ever … Guest Post: The Greatest Way to Dishonor Martin Luther King Jr. - BlackListedNews.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o8o7Vg49Rc&feature=player_embedded]Joseph E. Stiglitz: Crisis, Contagion, and the Need for a New Paradigm - YouTube[/ame]

To the To Disarms Based on emotions, I think you have latched onto an idea that banning guns would fix ‘it’ or at least sufficiently reduce ‘it’. I understand how close the close physical proximity for some of you reinforces your position. But I don’t think any of you ‘gun haters’ are really on board though. Nor were you really on board before. If you guys were really on board we would have seen passionate posting about the evils of guns for years and years now. The number of gun deaths of ‘children’ before Sandy would have been sufficient fuel – unless you are really racists who don’t care about ‘minority’ children ie black teens. Drug lords, who are typically dangerous sociopaths adept at organizing dupes, can and do arm their minions perpetually… yet really until a single (still alledgedly) psychiatric patient snaps, we didn’t hear a word from you or the media. Your “rights be damned, just save one kid” arguments, twisted to “fewer guns = fewer gun deaths” arguments, are hypocritical… now just done for the sake of arguing rather than really trying to make changes to the culture and to laws.

Ah, the power of associating. Let’s see how this goes... For those that believe tighter gun controls will lead to a decline in gun crime, do they also believe that: Legislating fountain drink cup sizes, etc. will lead to improved health. Heavily taxing, but continuing to burn, fossil fuels at virtually the same rates will lead to a favorable change in ‘climate’. They knew all along that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. They are in full awareness that the war on terror is also a complete sham and are grateful that the current administration is no longer is involved in ‘destabilization’ activities around the world. A Message To The 'Left' From A 'Right Wing Extremist' Israel is a blood thirsty aggressor. They ALWAYS fire first. Everything MSNBC news says is true. There is no such thing as propaganda. They would never have supported a 'hitler' or a 'stalin' etc....

Wow, clarifying that it was a plural labeling, instead of targeted at just one person, not only elevates your arguments into the realm of unassailable (like - ‘dumb’ people are always wrong), but it also removes any question that you are on the highest point of moral ground. (like – you know how everyone should live their lives based on the way you live yours.) Thank you so much. Previous :razz: was missed or misinterpreted... maybe a will work

SIUYA, Read your post. Thanks. Read it again. Thanks. Read it again. I may never recover. Have a great weekend all. zdo

the "long-term effect" of this UofMich survey on the indexes is best reported in micro-seconds.

Now who has “lost the argument”? :razz:

Thanks Ingot. SIUYA Most of the To Disarm crowd herein has already posted sufficient material to show they do trust pathocracies. Sincerely wasn't intending to slight anyone. Please forgive me and allow me to ask you too. Are you one of them?

Just for the readers who might be tempted to start lumping all the To Arm advocates as what MM has labeled “NRA soldiers and advocates for the gun industry”, let me be an example. Re “NRA soldiers” -, I strongly disagree with the NRA about armed guards in every school. Re “advocates for the gun industry” - I strongly encourage self printing of weapons… which would pretty much not swell the coffers of the ‘evil’ gun makers … Onward… More “variables” misused and mixed up… more ‘stat based reasoning’… The reality that still hasn’t sunk in with you yet MM. If you passed and enforced all the measures and solutions you have proposed, such as mass confiscations, etc. (plus some you haven’t dreamed up yet) - the lunatic will still remain free to ‘have’ a gun. Meanwhile, … Sandy Hook was not a "stat". It was the act of (a single?) seriously disturbed human(s). With comments like "faculty who go nuts, and who knows what other stat" you reveal a deep distrust of us humans and probably of yourself. The paradox is that you are simultaneously ready to trust the cleverest psychopaths to fix it for us...

To the OP, Ingot, Most of the people who have posted in this thread can only see pathocracies in hindsight. Are you one of them ?

“another dead argument” TheDude I love crowds. How many of us serial posters in this thread have noticed … ? that the “logic” of most arguments of the To Arm posters only holds together well if you believe in ‘guns rights’ a priori ? that the “logic” of most arguments of the To Disarm posters only holds together well if you believe in ‘gun bans’ a priori ? (that I'm using the word :logic: quite loosely would be an understatement ) like “please dont retort with 'it's unfair to the non-dumbass who wants to carry a gun', because only a dumbass would want a gun.” … I guess this would exclude 90% of people from gun ownership. Objective achieved!!" This thread got started and is sustained by reactions to the acts of a criminally insane person… not a dumbass. Dude, be careful who you’re calling dumbasses. It’s “dumbasses” who are sensation based enough to want to be able to react directly in such situations … the more cerebral thinking types prefer waiting for the “dumbasses’” to show up and take care of it. Re: recruiting dumbasses (and whowouldwanttorecruitsdumbasses btw?) Government Pushes Propaganda Through Video Games | Zero Hedge Gov't wants control of the dumbasses... dumbass 'fat' is leverage. Do you know what D. Umas actually said ? He said “…better to have a gun and not be able to get to it, than not have one and … ” So until we get this ‘dumbass cleansing’ thing worked out, :logic: like Law and good policy prevents insanity and crimes of insanity... so… outlaw guns... only holds together if you believe in gun control a priori

Enigmatics, I wasn’t insinuating I was exploring and discussing the following... … Anyways, no real surprise you didn’t experience “mad”. In trading, the detectable signals when eustress has been passed by for too many of us are subtle and sparse… until it is too late… performance degraded until recovery ... when sympathetic structures have been compromised, ‘stock’ thinking like “That is something I absolutely must get past to survive much longer term”( just a random example, btw) and doing ‘resolutions’ such as “I definitely just need to focus on my 10-15% moves for now an re-evaluate later on” can actually retard the pace of recovery… ... hoping you're back in form by Monday AM … let me know if you want me to just bug out… :missy:

How is “mad” connected with (or read into) my post?

Some snippity snips… on pointed pointlessness > Just because the “Markets are not random” – doesn’t mean you can’t be fooled by ‘randomlike’ > Instead of “There were even indications of cycles.” wouldn’t it be more accurate to say “There were even indications of stochastic processes” ? > and that ‘fooled by (indication of) stochastics’ can be as deadly or even more deadly for some than ‘fooled by randomlike’ :crap: > Also, just for snicks, I’ll just drop in that stochastic cycles in ‘randomly’ generated data do not = real cycles in randomlike generated data streams… :rofl: > I sincerely love threads like this. And I always appreciate the ‘pros don’t use _______’ etc posts ………… Until I recall how many instances I would have been better off just relying on my methods with “charts” and (random) “TA” instead of “the underlying basics of supply/demand/inflection points”, "correlations", MP, books, etc. and other 'pro' techniques... (find your own way) :missy:

Preface: The ‘available’ feedback and signs of impending degradation in performance in physical challenges vs the not so available, subtle, (micro) signs of impending degradation in trader performance makes associations between the two performance endeavors always tenuous. Ie This difference btwn the two is often extreme. Like - nowhere are certain performance factors made more self-evident than in physical competition and nowhere are certain internal performance factors made less self-evident than in trading competition Yet while they always require explicit clarifying distinctions, important ‘transfers’ can be made between development in physical and trading performance . Some possible transfers from the physical competition world go like “…before you can resist failure, you must first experience failure and learn how to recover from it… “ … but, alas, such ‘transfers’ and awareness of these trading performance factors requires much deeper and harder work than the typical ‘you have to learn to love your losses’, 'discipline', etc trading and trading forum bullshit. Anyways … I recently piled up some ‘rookie’ mistakes in CHF trading – a mkt that I’m historically consistently good at getting in synch with (even sometimes a ‘whiz’). .. and, yep, part of it was indeed falling again for a permutation of ‘past it’… further ‘story’ so typical it’s not worthy of more words… oversized loss now taken at least. Point is - We’re NEVER “past it”! … that would be like Payton Manning assuming he would never have another ‘imprecise’ series of downs …or an off day … or a cluster of shitty, sub par games… (pre-euphoric conditions, not euphoric issues, being discussed here, btw... ) Actually, having the ‘past it’ assumptions go 'unconsciously competent' is one of the few signs some traders have that he’s never ‘past it’… but, unfortunately, it is a 'micro' sign… so usually the sign is not picked up on / utilized until after sympathetically aroused ‘primal structures’ are already triggered… and unless one knows how to make rapid, conscious recoveries, once these 'structures' are triggered, one can be mired in sub standard / "rebuilding... confidence" performance for quite some time…

SIUYA, I don’t really know what the “crux” of this argument is. It does include ‘collective vs individual’,etc. elements which I have attempted to take account of in some of my posts – in increasingly cycnically, disrespectfully, satirically fashion though. ie I’m really not trying to convince anyone or change anyone’s mind on this… If you believe in ‘doable anarchy’, then you do. If you don’t believe ‘doable anarchy’ is possible, I understand and am making no attempt to change your mind... It may help you to paint me in your post as someone who thinks I know what is best for others… but, fwiw, I don’t really live my life that way... (and good grief I would also assert that my 'way' has a slightly , by millions and millions of souls, better historical record of tolerance and of not killing 'communists' than statists have of killing 'non communists' ... ) Realistically, we live on a violent planet. And unfortunately violence and repression and ‘darkness’ is still increasingly at this time. Even the ‘developed’ societies are far far less 'sustainable' and stable than they appear. Practically, making guns less legal / available is an ‘allopathic’ solution to the types of ‘flag’ incidents that triggered this debate and thread. To Disarm is a very ineffective ‘solution’- except for those among us who need ‘authority’ to do something/anything to help their emotions to settle… Via a quote of Tolle that I posted many pages back , I made my main point that no external changes toward the ideals we would “prefer”, like “non violent societies”, or functional national ‘centralization’, etc, etc, etc. are really sustainable without an authentic quorum of internal “awakening of awareness” first… our ‘arguments’ about who and how To Disarm are thus pointless… you go ahead and help “fuel the fire” . but, realistically, there are too many ‘hidden pink panties’ in here to do any of this debate “properly”.:rofl: zdo Further reading: ...from Where Does The Hatred Of Constitutionalism Come From? Note: even though this was probably written in the last few days, it is definitely already ‘dated’ … this country (and most countries) are already “centralized” past point of ‘normal’ / politically directed rebalancing… example…Amid Federal Land Grab in Brazil, Whole Towns Evicted at Gunpoint - BlackListedNews.com etc etc … and to those leaning ‘progressive’ among us, don't waste your time attempting to tightly bind me to the present ‘constitution’. I personally think it’s time for another ‘revolution’ and constitutional convention… correcting the vulnerabilities in the present one to the ‘statism’ that is still ascending…the ‘left’ and ‘right’, 'progressives' and 'conservatives' , (label and olabels) etc. are engineered, false dichotomies and are equally guilty in hypocrisy, betrayal, and exploitation of ‘useful idiots’ and … ... and since no one has made any To Arm posts yet Guest Post: Guns, Like Washing Machines, Don't Act - People Do | Zero Hedge