zdo

for those who don't know 'much' about Jesse Jesse Lauriston Livermore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just skimmed a book BobC recommended … The Inner Voice of Trading by Michael Martin thx BobC My first comment about the book“… somebody’s been reading my mail” …and that reminds me of an old song about beating the devil – I don't know that it has much to do with the topic at hand but - for free associa's sake, it even has the “reading my mail” phrase in it (and everything ) [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faF0wOsVucw]Kris Kristofferson ? To Beat the Devil (1970) - YouTube[/ame]

Beyond Livermore Distilled, purified, simplified -‘Beyond Livermore’ = ‘keep what you take’ By 1. Finding a way NOT to break your own rules. ps hopefully the 'Beyond' tag will have mitsubishi's blessings. Let us know if you don't think it's appropriate and we'll change the title " and everything"

Great post, zupcon Re: failure And Re “Why would anyone want this to change ?” Peeps really don’t want this to change. But these ‘anyones’ do want to change their own level from generalized failure to generalized success. They work on 'themselves' and / or their skills – and not necessarily in that order…Most of the ppl. who are ‘working’ on their trading ‘believe’ themselves (correctly or incorrectly) to be at or near the threshold of success … and many of them turn to the promises of ‘self improvement’, ‘real’ psychology, ‘pop’ psychology, neuroscience, etc, etc…to maybe fix that mindset. … generally, to maybe fix that neural net ... "it's all good " (… and ‘fixing’ the neural net - at least getting real performance increases out of the neural net work is possible .… but, in my own long journey, I’ve discovered a factor that is so neglected, yet it makes the difference btwn whether ‘neural net’ work is virtually impossible and unproductive or relatively seamless… I’ve threatened several times to write an article about it… but haven’t been convinced even one person in here would really benefit from it... maybe someday...)

Some opinions 1 in 2060 there won’t even be a Dow JIA index … there will be indexes but that one will either be back to really ‘industrial’ or replaced by then. 2 theoretically ( in economic and social theoreticals) Glenn’s projections are sound … even if it turns out he’s off by thousands of points and years. 3 I’ve said several times herein, the dow, to really be in a BULL right now needs to be much higher than it is… in my ‘numbers’, it needed to be at 18000 five years ago… 24000 to 28000 now… Look at an index chart priced in gold = bear mkt . But for you, it’s dressed up like a bull. Yes, often the biggest lies really are the easiest lies... fiat. The (realistic ??? ) ‘bulls’ are going long at “subsidized prices and when they adjust, at whatever point in the future, they [may] adjust immediately and on no volume.” Ie the financial world is operating on false metrics … yen history of ‘lies’, europeen[sp] history of lies, dollar history of lies, etc. so 4 the metrics of 2060 will be different, see 2 above. I can relate to why you discuss it, twiz – but most are going to find it specious… All the best, zdo

Opinion: Gold taper ed candle They didn’t play the TaperForReal card… the one they threatened to play They also didn’t play the FakeTaper card… the one where they call a taper on one metric, and surrepticiously compensate for it on another – making it net not really a taper at all except for in the media based paradigms. Didn’t quite need that card yet… maybe later… create ONE thread only They were ordered long ago, eroneously imo, that their ONLY choice was creating more debt... not more money... more debt... slightly related bulsht at How Can Bernanke Taper In Light Of This? | Zero Hedge

Why does zdo keep going off topic with PM’s? With PM’s, why does he remove more and more ‘relative to’ from in mind? … when it’s an unwritten rule - traders MUST see things ‘relative to’ … relative to dollars, or personal construct of composite risk and or opportunity, or lifejackets, or krone, or food, or titanium, or anathemas… … sorta like at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMqDIXsLm8, * up on TL, traders must keep count of the ‘white tosses’ and ignore the APE in the middle of the action… … everything else is noise. Traders are continually conditioned to actually ignore/miss the ape (proverbial elephant) in the room. like - only acknowledged biases are biases… … and TL traders and paradigm sycophants are presumably doing a great job at it… when I mention the guy in the ape suit, mostly silence ensues… the only conversation is corralling, rescuing, the ‘normals’ from the perdition … *(from the http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/16729-trading-mindsets-80-success-13.html#post186241 thread )

Proposition: I may value PM’s even less than you do… AU is worth about $32 an oz. :rofl: (because this time really is different ,) that works - until when you really don’t care how the market place ‘values’ it…

relic is the correct word in todays world

worthless is the best description of PMs’ value

in a world where information matters and its truthfullness doesn’t , mercun means https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=+m...L8bF7AbH74GQCQ …bbbut doesn’t mean https://www.google.com/#q=mercun+ … ps …mercun is jank for American… be careful Nature Publishing Group : science journals, jobs, and information CBS DC Retraction Watch | Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process Latest news, world news, sport and comment from the Guardian | theguardian.com | The Guardian re: “‘cover up’ / obfuscate / cloud your access” science talks… a word like ‘biases’ will be described as if it is the center of the constructs everyone should utilize… when actually it is helpful to only a few, neutral to most, and harmful to some… be careful… pps re statements like "seeking profits, not truth" c’mon peeps -if truth doesn’t matter to you any more, why would you ever bother to post in this thread? Unveiling The Delusion Of Disruption - disinformation

Rising real rates will pressure PM's v fiats. I’ll quietly accumulate… welcoming lower ‘prices’ (… prices are now a false metric anyways … ‘built in’ as a true metric, but they ain’t…) ie It’s all good in the long run… Hm...rising rates… in a ‘new’ world where the borrowers can’t pay… and expect to be bailed out… meanwhile, Fed is leveraged more than any (surviving) hedge fund ever… Kyle Bass: "The Next 18 Months Will Redefine Economic Orthodoxy For The West" | Zero Hedge / ... PM’s are a lousy investment. Actually, they should not be considered to be an ‘investment’ - or even a ‘trade’… they actually shouldn’t ‘move’ enough to be a ‘trade’ …but as safe savings tucked away… regardless of what fiats do… continues to work for me… money humoris [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Fead0hihM&feature=player_embedded]Money vs Currency - Michael Connell - YouTube[/ame] /////////////// 'quieted' down enough now... :rofl: we now return you to your regularly scheduled posting...

quietly buying quietly embracing each lower low... :missy:

Be careful… mercun science talk(s) can ‘cover up’ / obfuscate / cloud your access to as many 'biases' as they reveal…

it’s all over the board… ‘mood’ dependent ... your list omitted a bunch of genres ... and, nyet, bach won't help tards ... i should know... song of the day so far… [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3u31SAeEM]ART OF NOISE: MOMENTS IN LOVE (THE ORIGINAL) - YouTube[/ame] shorter version [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l4cx4z97SM&feature=related]Art of Noise - Moments in love piano live - YouTube[/ame] no yes

johnw, best post ever...thx

911 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLXyB5GtfBU&feature=player_embedded]9-11 explained in 5 minutes!!!.mp4 - YouTube[/ame] fast forward to now same honchos behind the scenes... with occurrence of big and small lies - GEOMETICALLY multiplied ... but skill at pulling it off on a grand scale - falling fast. (ie neo-con liers were much more careful at it than neo-lib liers...) They all lost my backing 20 years ago... they will lose your backing soon... like… instead of the propaganda spittle last night, I watched and Assad brought more credible body language and content than did Rose … hm "I will live in Volgograd and coordinate subcontractors to write shadowy code for businesses in the west. And I will marry a strong, beautiful russian woman, and we will have two children. We will have a 2 year old bmw suv… And we will drive to Sochi in early spring. Do they let you do that?"... ~ Capt. Victor Barodi Executive Officer USS Cheyenne (SSN-773) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////// “Let’s talk for a minute about these masters of war, these same men that are sending our sons and our daughters, our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers to fight an undeclared and unconstitutional and unwinnable war for them.” — Jessica Lange “You know, really good artists have a way of being relevant in their time — but great artists are relevant at any time. So, in the words of William Shakespeare, ‘Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor.’” — Barbra Streisand “The world has come together and said ‘no’ to this war – and we must stand with them.” — Danny Glover “Let us resist this war. Let us hate war in all its forms, whether the weapon used is a missile or an airplane.” — Susan Sarandon “I also think that there is a strong streak of racism, and whenever we engage in foreign adventures. Our whole history in regime change has been of people of different color.” — Ed Asner Sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in an unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate sovereign nation may well prove itself a most temporary medicine — Sean Penn “It is very inspiring and amusing how many people have come out in this genuine and spontaneous way to embrace peace and reject war. It reminds us there is a human and gentle spirit out there in this world.” — Tim Robbins “You can’t beat your enemy anymore through wars; instead you create an entire generation of people revenge-seeking.” — George Clooney “War is failure! When you are at war, you have failed!” — Janeane Garofalo These tools’ words all came pre 2OO9 of course… :hourglass smily:… waiting… for highly publicized updates from these players… ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ mc, what is the latest release ? I'm getting ads about tiny silver coins recovered from the bottom of the atlantic. you?

Test them against multiple instruments AND across multiple 7 year samples and you’ll see that taking every setup is suboptimal… ie optimal ‘leverage’ of the patterns demands independent / non correlated means of filtering them – both ‘then’ and now… (…and somewhat ;off topic; and fwiw )... Al Brooks has some sound, basic discussions in his books about sensible ‘discretionary’ applications of many of these patterns. ...not comprehensive at all... just an assist in building good personal constructs for when to take a setup and when not to... hth

handle, I appreciate the way you have handled the off topic bulsht in your thread. If by some small chance you do persist here, you might reconsider and more openly discuss some of the Ross methods / patterns themselves. ... possibly even contacting Joe for permission. The fact is - and quite contrary to what others have posted above - most of Ross's setups have either been contributed by him into the public domain or have been disclosed elsewhere - if no where else, in his books. I'm almost certain you could discuss the actual patterns / knowledge without dislosing any of the wisdom and understanding you garnered from your face to face work with him and without violating any NDA you agreed to with him. all the best, zdo

... here you go, mits :rofl: “Let us create a model.” The Journey from the Basement (and please don't feel obligated in any way to put twig bird into plain english)

Soultrader, are you Joe Ross?

Not everyone can trade/stick with Ross methods. Not everyone could trade / stick with Gann methods… Between posters taking shts on other people’s systems and the posters, (so far only anticipated in this thread, but blve me they are their way here) who fling ‘it’s all in the edge’ - deniers of the REQUIREMENT that an edge be compatible with it’s user, it’s no small wonder to me that handle shares anything at all. Bobc I really appreciate your contributions across time, but that post – I don’t think that one helped you or anyone else. Instead of honoring his proximity to finding a self compatible system ,. You’re overlaying your own filters on it and calling ‘nonsense’ ??? The differences between ross methods and gann methods (in this case) abound in both structure and perceptual acuities required. The skill an eyeball Ross trader must develop (across time) is knowing those situations to stay out. This is really what separate Ross from ross traders … meanwhile most Gann methods need to be applied on every setup. … Gann found ‘no noise’ ie his 'inner geometry' tended to see and treat all pa as signal. Ross 'acknowledges' noise. His methods search for signal(s) in heavy noise… I haven’t the time to continue any comparisons in more depth... …If nothing else, Ross methods are 20 – 30 times more ‘algorithmically- friendly’ than anything Gann… especially for short holding periods. My point to noobs reading this - No method or edge in situ is "nonsense". Edges, in order be applied consistently across time, need to be matched to you, the individual trader. You're not just looking for an edge / method. You're looking for a method that matches well with your true nature.

from Needs of a Trader | Zero Hedge

Patuca, if you really want to get off, get yourself a golden C like members of congress, they are exempt from such commoner nonsense :missy:

:haha: you are complete [and total] idiot